Sorry, but I have 5-bucks that says Champ Car does not answer the bell in 2008...

Before the flamers start in with me, let me say I am a long-time (since mid-1960's) avid follower of open wheel racing. I have attended OW races at all So Cal locations from Riverside to Ontario to Long Beach to Fontana plus all other west coast locations (Laguna Seca, Phoenix, etc...). I have also traveled to all Canadian races (Vancouver to Montreal to Toronto). There is no bigger fan of the original Champ car model of OW racing than me, as I favor a series that challenges with small ovals, large ovals, road and street courses. The Champ car I remember had the best technology, best drivers, best venues (all, arguably) in the world. I have seen every great from Gurney to Foyt to Andretti - I am not a D&G'er; if you accuse me of this, it would be inaccurate.

However, I am a realist and a businessman and I can see the writing on the wall. I doubt Champ Car will answer the bell in 2008...

As Mr. Eagle Eye wrote (and after about 5-years of lurking daily on the board, I can say he is the most accurate poster here), there are some serious, some might say fatal, issues in play for CCWS at this time:

-Three canceled races (And Vegas in the lurch, unless it is purchased by the three Chumps, EE's words, I'll charitably say "amigos")

You can spin the loss of San Jose venue all you want, with a trade to Laguna Seca but that's bull, LS is way out in the boonies, no one has gone there in the past (20-k max. last crowd) and on one will go there in the future either, that is a loser "trade" if ever there was one. Better racing course, Yes, but who cares when nobody will be there to see it.

-Pay for time TV partner
-Continued Dismal TV ratings
-Seats to the highest bidder

Have to add in that except an over-the-hill Paul Tracy, there is not ONE recognizable name driver to the average joe !!!

-Loss of respect and coverage from those in the Motorsport media

Anybody been reading Phillps and Miller lately ???

-Lack of series promotion
-Lack of driver or team promotion
-No title sponsorship

No comes word that the gIRL series is may ne getting a very strong title sponsor, "Anheuser-Busch and Budweiser beer". CCWS has no title sponsor and frankly no prospects for getting any.

-Low car count
-Teams folding, or leaving the series
-Top sponsors leaving

CDW is the latest sponsor to bail. At best they go to another team (NHL) but the damage is done, RuSport is gonzo.

-Being sued left and right
-Owners at each others throats (almost literally)

Scumbag Paul G. putting X-rated video website and sleazy strip clubs on as sponsers. Count me and my family "out". Just because he likes to go to Spearmint Rhino, it is not (!!!) an acceptable sponser.

-Inept management
-Loss of three cars (at the moment)

Check out RuSport, from 2-car "contender" in 2006 to "gone" in 2008. Conquest, Coyne, how will they be hanging on ??? I see only about 12 cars at most rolling over from this year to 2008.

Furthermore, the gIRL series is now offering a more competitive financial assistance package for teams that compete in the entire series.

Man do I hate those crapwagons, they are ugly, low tech, and although they go 'roundy-roundy' pretty well, they are pigs on a road course. I am shocked, shocked I tell you, the call hasn't already been made and Danica Patrick hasn't been a winner. Don't even start me in with how much I hate Nascab...

Yeah, I know they are selling tickets for the LB GP now, but I wouldn't send them any money unless I didn't plan to not get it back.

The I-500 is the 8,000-lb. gorilla that will drive the other league into success although the other weak sister series events will be dragged along. CCWS has no event to counter the I-500 and that has and will be their ultimate downfall.

Alright.....sanguin, weefly, sandfly.....what say you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SoCalPVguy

Before the flamers start in with me, let me say I am a long-time (since mid-1960's) avid follower of open wheel racing. I have attended OW races at all So Cal locations from Riverside to Ontario to Long Beach to Fontana plus all other west coast locations (Laguna Seca, Phoenix, etc...). I have also traveled to all Canadian races (Vancouver to Montreal to Toronto). There is no bigger fan of the original Champ car model of OW racing than me, as I favor a series that challenges with small ovals, large ovals, road and street courses. The Champ car I remember had the best technology, best drivers, best venues (all, arguably) in the world. I have seen every great from Gurney to Foyt to Andretti - I am not a D&G'er; if you accuse me of this, it would be inaccurate.

However, I am a realist and a businessman and I can see the writing on the wall. I doubt Champ Car will answer the bell in 2008...

As Mr. Eagle Eye wrote (and after about 5-years of lurking daily on the board, I can say he is the most accurate poster here), there are some serious, some might say fatal, issues in play for CCWS at this time:

-Three canceled races (And Vegas in the lurch, unless it is purchased by the three Chumps, EE's words, I'll charitably say "amigos")

You can spin the loss of San Jose venue all you want, with a trade to Laguna Seca but that's bull, LS is way out in the boonies, no one has gone there in the past (20-k max. last crowd) and on one will go there in the future either, that is a loser "trade" if ever there was one. Better racing course, Yes, but who cares when nobody will be there to see it.

-Pay for time TV partner
-Continued Dismal TV ratings
-Seats to the highest bidder

Have to add in that except an over-the-hill Paul Tracy, there is not ONE recognizable name driver to the average joe !!!

-Loss of respect and coverage from those in the Motorsport media

Anybody been reading Phillps and Miller lately ???

-Lack of series promotion
-Lack of driver or team promotion
-No title sponsorship

No comes word that the gIRL series is may ne getting a very strong title sponsor, "Anheuser-Busch and Budweiser beer". CCWS has no title sponsor and frankly no prospects for getting any.

-Low car count
-Teams folding, or leaving the series
-Top sponsors leaving

CDW is the latest sponsor to bail. At best they go to another team (NHL) but the damage is done, RuSport is gonzo.

-Being sued left and right
-Owners at each others throats (almost literally)

Scumbag Paul G. putting X-rated video website and sleazy strip clubs on as sponsers. Count me and my family "out". Just because he likes to go to Spearmint Rhino, it is not (!!!) an acceptable sponser.

-Inept management
-Loss of three cars (at the moment)

Check out RuSport, from 2-car "contender" in 2006 to "gone" in 2008. Conquest, Coyne, how will they be hanging on ??? I see only about 12 cars at most rolling over from this year to 2008.

Furthermore, the gIRL series is now offering a more competitive financial assistance package for teams that compete in the entire series.

Man do I hate those crapwagons, they are ugly, low tech, and although they go 'roundy-roundy' pretty well, they are pigs on a road course. I am shocked, shocked I tell you, the call hasn't already been made and Danica Patrick hasn't been a winner. Don't even start me in with how much I hate Nascab...

Yeah, I know they are selling tickets for the LB GP now, but I wouldn't send them any money unless I didn't plan to not get it back.

The I-500 is the 8,000-lb. gorilla that will drive the other league into success although the other weak sister series events will be dragged along. CCWS has no event to counter the I-500 and that has and will be their ultimate downfall.

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I have serious doubts as to whether CC will answer the bell in 2008. Moreover, whether it does or not, I'm pretty sure I don't care.

That said, a couple of points:

1. I'll wait to crown "Mr. EagleEye" as "the most accurate poster on this board" until NHL is proved to be a pack of liars and EE's "sure thing" that NHL is going to the IRL in 2008 is proven right. He harped on and on so sanctimoniously about it and yet I've seen nary a peep from Mr. EagleEye since NHL's unequivocal press release came out a fortnight or so ago.

2. I keep reading vitriolic invective aimed at Gentilozzi regarding these immoral influences like strip clubs and porno films he has brought into the series. I must not be paying attention because I have no idea what anyone is talking about here. Are they sponsors? If you're going to attack the man, at least use the plentiful material that is well known, and don't bother digging around for other stuff.

Hey Sanguin, you gonna come defend your bosses or what?

They are in really sad shapoe, and this series needs to get its act together RIGHT FREAKING NOW.

As pessimistic as I am about the current state of affairs at Champ Car, I still think it is likely it will answer the bell for 2008. The amigos are so arrogant they may never admit defeat and will do anything to drag it on for as long as they have a place to play. However, the big question is in what form and for how long. If the fall continues as it has and a few teams depart, most promoters will want nothing to do with them, in the US or anywhere else. They may be stuck with a few cars and the events they control themselves until sanity sinks in. Until then, it has devolved into a fancy club race for a couple teams owned by a few rich guys to race among themselves for bragging rights. No one else seems to care.

Of course, Monday morning I expect the usual cheerleaders to jump in and tell us about the wonderful future CC has and how it will rise from the current ashes. It ain't no Phoenix. The only things flying around CC headquarters are a few buzzards waiting to pick at the carcass.

More bad news... AR1 is rumouring that Champ Car has delayed their 2008 race schedule originally slated to be issued mid-October but now is likely to come out is maybe by mid-November. The later is goes, the more likely it is to be much reduced or non-existant.

BTW is the CCWS season over, oh wait we're still in the 6-week break between events, forget the press, even I have forgotten about it...

Mr. 994... hey, you're a great poster too (I admired Greg Moore also). It is a fact that CCWS considered a team sponsorship by Adult Video News (AVN). Take a look at their website... Link:
Warning Not Safe For Work if you follow any of their sublinks...

Also it is also a fact that PG had Spearmint Rhino strip clubs logos on the side pods for the Europe races but took them off under protest from either Pettit or maybe KK. AR1 had a picture up for a while but it was so embarrassng that CCWS asked them to take it down. See link to Spearmint Rhino website (definately not safe for work !!!)


As you can see, neither of these entities are sponsors that IMHO should be associated w/ CCWS and it is my understanding both were being pushed by PG.

Likewise, I am a little pessimistic about the 2008 season. However, I believe that Champ Car will run a "full season." How the season/events unfold, is certainly questionable. Even Miller and Philips have not conceeded that the 2008 season will not take place. There are still venues that generate money and that is one reason alone as to why CCWS will begin the season.

Champ Car can survive without the Indy 500. These next few months will determine the future of Champ Car. If Champ Car were folding, why is KK looking at Germany and Dubai as possible racetracks?

I am going to hang in there until the bitter end. Arguing that the IRL is better off is far short from the truth. They are certainly doing better than CC, but that is nothing to be proud of.

Hello all, time for me to pipe in again.

So, SoCalPVguy, you think CC is not long for this world. You may be right; I won't argue that point. But I find your reasoning flawed. You start by listing many reasons for CC's demise:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SoCalPVguy

-Pay for time TV partner
-Continued Dismal TV ratings
-Seats to the highest bidder
-Loss of respect and coverage from those in the Motorsport media
-Lack of series promotion
-Lack of driver or team promotion
-No title sponsorship
-Low car count
-Teams folding, or leaving the series
-Top sponsors leaving
-Being sued left and right
-Owners at each others throats (almost literally)
-Inept management
-Loss of three cars (at the moment)

---

Now let us say CC somehow got their act together and rectified these problems - but according to you...

Quote:

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CCWS has no event to counter the I-500 and that has and will be their ultimate downfall.

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...it won't matter.

In other words, the first 90% of your post is just a rant, because, you say, the lack of a 500 counterpart will kill them regardless.

Frankly, I believe that a well-managed series without that 500 is perfectly viable. What will be (and is) CC's undoing, is lack of said management. All those other reasons you enumerate are simply consequences of the inept management you speak of - or more precisely, IMHO, the non-existent management.

If there was truly some merit to the argument that the 500 is so vitally important, CART would have imploded long before it did, and CCWS would have been stillborn -- AND, the IRL would have been a roaring success almost right out of the gate.

In fact, the IRL has little if any success to show for itself, what with having the 500 and the paying TV deal and the dozen years of Anton tossing hundreds of millions at it and, more recently, the heavy-hitter teams. You mention CC's poor car count - well what about IRL's? 18 full-timers this past season; not very impressive. And the vaunted 500 itself struggles to get the infamous 33; the last few years have seen upwards of a dozen entrants that have no business being on the track. This should be a pretty clear indication that the 500 is not what will make or break a series. Proper management is the bottom line here. Unfortunately, neither series is endowed with it. That Anton has to offer "appearance" money to bribe teams to join up is proof enough that IRL is not healthy.

If Anton had ever got his head out of his behind, and woken up and smelled the coffee, CART/CCWS would have been long gone. Conversely, if the CART powers that were had not been ignorant and greedy, the 500 might have been back on the CART schedule. Even now, if the OWRS owners realized you have to spend money to make money, and had actually done it, the series could be thriving - to wit:

- had they signed Allmendinger (the $3 million would have been a "cheap" investment)
- had they kept Nelson (he had built up a fan following)
- ditto Timo Glock the year before (Rookie of the Year, no less)
- had they kept Ranger (he won a Championship in Canadian Cabs this year!)
- had they "subsidized" 2nd cars for RuSport, Rocketsports and Conquest (that would have made 20)
- had they "subsidized" Polestar or Gelles or Hylton (24-26 cars on the grid!!)
- had they put up decent race purses and points fund (the "subsidies")
- had they invested to keep Denver (and forgot about China)
- had they even thought about getting proper promotion and PR people - who might then have secured enough sponsorship to cover the costs of the above -- with 24 car grids, they would have had something to sell!!!!!

Now, if NHL does defect to IRL, you can turn out the lights on CC; for sure. I'm just not convinced they're leaving (Eagle Eye notwithstanding); they might be making contingency plans for a CCWS no-show, but if the series survives, I think they'll be there.

And (first I've heard of it), if Bud does title sponsor IRL and does it to the nines, CC could be in a world of hurt - but again, I see no evidence of that coming to pass.

I believe KK and gang will give it at least one more shot. They will answer the bell for 2008. Problem is, they're looking at Europe to try to save an American series; and, to me at least, that's the equivalent of pizzing into the wind. If they don't wake up and smell the coffee, 2008 will be the curtain call.

Cheers.

edit --- SoCalPVguy, you could consider losing all those font tags that do nothing; just a thought...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SoCalPVguy

Man do I hate those crapwagons, they are ugly, low tech, and although they go 'roundy-roundy' pretty well, they are pigs on a road course. I am shocked, shocked I tell you, the call hasn't already been made and Danica Patrick hasn't been a winner. Don't even start me in with how much I hate Nascab...

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I read that the 2007 irl car was pretty close to the times set by the 2006 champcar at mid ohio? so given the IRL car is 100 - 150 hp down on the CC - they are hardly pigs on the road course.

I think that keeping the costs down is probably more important then been at the cutting edge of technology - particularly when you have no manufacturers in CC. Manufacturers will be the only ones to finance R&D in motorsport so for a series that has no manufacturers....????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by McLeagle

Hello all, time for me to pipe in again.

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Well, look who's back?

I'd also like to pipe in, but....I've said enough about CC.

Good you back, McL.