Is it possible faster than Formula1?

Hello from Australia.
Question
Is it possilbe for a smaller formula car formula 3, formula 2 or gp2 to be faster in certain types of corners than f1? Cheers :D

Perhaps around a slow corner where the car is going too slow to produce any downforce then I suppose it might me possible. Such as the Monaco hairpin.

Short answer is no. Formula 1 cars have way more grip than any of the above.

Now; there are cars which are faster in a straight line than Formula 1 cars ; as demonstrated on Top Gear yesterday, but still produce significantly slower lap times.

I think that there might be a case to be made for certain corners as Mr Brown has suggested.

I wonder if at a corner like Turn 15 at Albert Park where F1 cars slow down to 85km/h whether or not a Formula Ford by virtue of it having a physically smaller footprint might be able to take a slightly wider line through the corner and go through at 90km/h?
Obviously an F1 car is going to accelerate far far far harder but if the attitude in a lesser formula is to conserve speed through a slow corner, would that warrant a different attitude to the way that a particular corner is taken?
I'd hazard a very nebulous guess that maybe ½% of all corners might be faster in the lesser formulae.

For such possibility to arise, it means an F3, GP2, etc car must have some kind of an advantage over an F1 car. But I am personally not aware of any such factor that could make the lower formula superior in some area - tyres, engine, chassis, aerodynamics? Or even more specific - suspension, gearbox, etc?

Monaco hairpin? Still doubtful. Although one advantage a lower formula car can have in that particular corner, is that they are shorter in length. But I assume it would still be outweighed by mechanical grip an F1 car can generate.

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Originally Posted by jens

For such possibility to arise, it means an F3, GP2, etc car must have some kind of an advantage over an F1 car. But I am personally not aware of any such factor that could make the lower formula superior in some area - tyres, engine, chassis, aerodynamics? Or even more specific - suspension, gearbox, etc?

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According to my ouija board, Colin Chapman is telling me that lighter weight would be a useful advantage :) (not in the case of a GP2 car). As well as length, I think narrower width could be an advantage, as Rollo suggested allowing a wider line in tight corners. But a narrower car would lose out by unloading the inside tyres more, unless the height of the centre of gravity were lowered too.

There was a rumour at one time that a top-spec kart could lap Monaco faster than an F1 car.

I don't think there's any dispute that a kart would be faster than an F1 car round a kart track. So if a kart is a car then I guess the answer to the original question must be yes.


Edit - just to add some more info... according to formula1.com. the cornering force for an F1 car in the Monaco hairpin is 2.42g. According to Wikipedia, a superkart can achieve around 3g, but I wouldn't like to guess how close it could get to that in that particular corner.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

I don't think there's any dispute that a kart would be faster than an F1 car round a kart track.

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Well, that is true. Kart tracks are so tight and twisty that a Formula One car can barely fit in there, let alone run at its full capabilities. :D

just making a guess. there would be many corner in the world where even a 500cc bike would be faster than a f1 car if they use a wider line ?. say spa 1st hairpin?

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Originally Posted by race_director

just making a guess. there would be many corner in the world where even a 500cc bike would be faster than a f1 car if they use a wider line ?. say spa 1st hairpin?

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Maybe, but it would have to be a very tight corner for the lines to be different enough. Due to the geometry of the situation bikes don't generate the same cornering forces - maybe up to 1.5 or 1.6 g, limited by lean angle.
Race bikes look pretty unwieldy in very slow corners, for example the mickey-mouse final chicane across the pit lane entry that they used to use at Silverstone. I'd guess a more likely place for a bike to have an advantage would be a chicane that's just open enough to allow a bike to more or less straight-line it, while a car has to turn. Somewhere like the old Dingle Dell at Brands Hatch perhaps?

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the cornering force for an F1 car in the Monaco hairpin is 2.42g.
According to Wikipedia, a superkart can achieve around 3g,

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If tyres with pure mechanical grip giving 3g are possible , which i very highly doubt in a racing environment, then they could be fitted on F1 car too, right. :)
Well, the exact quotation from Wikipedia about Superkart is:
"A Superkart is capable of braking from 100 mph (160 km/h) to standstill in around 2 seconds, and taking corners at nearly 3 g (30 m/s²)"
Obviously a downforce is included.