From the AP newswire reported on ESPN.com

[ChicagocrewIRL]

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=1&id=3236736


So it's not just Robin Miller reporting this. There is a lot more to come. Cavin is reporting it should be all clearer by the end of the day. Significant obstacles remain......

[sanguin]

KK-

"I believe there are significant advantages in doing [the merger], but I believe there are also significant advantages in not doing it. At this moment in time, there are no discussions until they move Motegi."

[garyshell]

KK-

"I believe there are significant advantages in doing [the merger], but I believe there are also significant advantages in not doing it. At this moment in time, there are no discussions until they move Motegi."

Ok let's counter you freakin' cherry picking of the quotes with a couple of other key points.


From IRL spokesman John Griffin:

"This thing is moving forward, but there's still some work to be done. I don't know how long it's going to take," he said. "We are looking to add some teams and some races. [Retired Honda racing boss] Robert Clarke and Tony are going to head to Japan to talk to the Japanese about coming off their date."
And this:


Longtime racing star Mario Andretti (http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/driver?seriesId=1&driverId=3487) has made several attempts to get the sides together.


"It's the only solution we have to save the sport we love so much," he said. "The bottom line is that this is desperately needed. There's no losers in a situation like this, starting with the fans."


Sanguin, you need to seriously get year head out of that Fox News "fair and balanced" mindset, and start looking at the WHOLE picture for a change.

Gary

[sanguin]

Motegi has to move for LB ,Kansas won't move their race for Motegi. Nothing happens unless Motegi moves and that's just the beginning of it.

There are contracts in place and it would be monumental to get anything done this year.

This is no where near getting done unless TG and honda remove their obstacles and pay off GF and KK to take over. IMO.

[pvtjoker]

Unification seems inevitable, beit in '08 or '09. Thats a good thing Sanguin.

[garyshell]

Motegi has to move for LB ,Kansas won't move their race for Motegi. Nothing happens unless Motegi moves and that's just the beginning of it.

There are contracts in place and it would be monumental to get anything done this year.

This is no where near getting done unless TG and honda remove their obstacles and pay off GF and KK to take over. IMO.

Which is PRECISELY why "...king George", Honda's own Robert Clarke and others are flying to Japan to try to sort this out.

Gary

[Breeze]

Motegi has to move for LB ,Kansas won't move their race for Motegi...............
And so Kansas takes a bullet in the chest for the sake of unification. Assuming Motegi can't work it out, of course. Too bad, so sad for Kansas, but in the end Honda and Motegi are FAR, FAR more important.

[BradCA1]

Yeah, not a surprise that Kansas would not be willing to work with IRL and CC for the sake of a merger. It will be interesting to see what happens to the relationship with the ISC owned tracks WHEN the merger takes place. They certainly do not want to see a unified OW series again. Then they might be exposed for the inferior product that they are.

[ChaimWitz]

Motegi has to move for LB ,Kansas won't move their race for Motegi. Nothing happens unless Motegi moves and that's just the beginning of it.

There are contracts in place and it would be monumental to get anything done this year.

This is no where near getting done unless TG and honda remove their obstacles and pay off GF and KK to take over. IMO.

Sanguin, are you one the CCWS staffers who had no idea all this was happening until told by the ownership today? If so, think about what that represents.

The Truth Geenie is now finally out of the bottle and there is no putting it back in. My hunch is that there are two likely outcomes here: 1) The Indy Car Series continues and absorbs some assets from OWRS; 2) The Indy Car Series continues and OWRS evaporates. Either way, there will only be one series and most people with an ounce of common sense see this as a good thing.

Your spin doctoring can't save OWRS and the Amigos because ChampCar has been without a pulse for too long. Sadly it seems it has damaged teams, promoters, drivers and careers yet again due to the dubious behavior of some of its key players.

What happens next may not be pretty or fun but there is no going back.

[nanders]

And so Kansas takes a bullet in the chest for the sake of unification. Assuming Motegi can't work it out, of course. Too bad, so sad for Kansas, but in the end Honda and Motegi are FAR, FAR more important.

Kansas was one of the best attended races outside Indy last year ... I'm pretty sure they won't fall on their swords.

[pvtjoker]

What happens next may not be pretty or fun but there is no going back.

Didn't CC just hire a new PR Director? Imagine what that poor guy must be thinking today...Geesh

[Breeze]

Kansas was one of the best attended races outside Indy last year ... I'm pretty sure they won't fall on their swords.

I'm sure they won't reschedule without putting up a fight, but for Honda (need I say more?), Motegi has to trump Kansas. But in the end it may be mooted by Motegi finding a new date in another month.

[sanguin]

Sanguin, are you one the CCWS staffers who had no idea all this was happening until told by the ownership today? If so, think about what that represents.

The Truth Geenie is now finally out of the bottle and there is no putting it back in. My hunch is that there are two likely outcomes here: 1) The Indy Car Series continues and absorbs some assets from OWRS; 2) The Indy Car Series continues and OWRS evaporates. Either way, there will only be one series and most people with an ounce of common sense see this as a good thing.

Your spin doctoring can't save OWRS and the Amigos because ChampCar has been without a pulse for too long. Sadly it seems it has damaged teams, promoters, drivers and careers yet again due to the dubious behavior of some of its key players.

What happens next may not be pretty or fun but there is no going back.

Absorbs? Why would KK and GF let TG absorb anything?

This is a merger rumor from a hack.

GF and KK don't have to give TG anything. And TG doesn't come from a place of power right now, his league and the 500 are hurting big time.

[sanguin]

Kansas was one of the best attended races outside Indy last year ... I'm pretty sure they won't fall on their swords.

They won't move because of the nascar season tickets that have already been sold and the promotions already done.

[heelntoe]

Absorbs? Why would KK and GF let TG absorb anything?

This is a merger rumor from a hack.

GF and KK don't have to give TG anything. And TG doesn't come from a place of power right now, his league and the 500 are hurting big time.

Stupider by the minute these posts are getting! Read the front page of ESPN.com, the AP, etc. and get a grip!!! TG holds the cards, this is a textbook absorption and we should know by Tuesday what's going on.

[sanguin]

Stupider by the minute these posts are getting! Read the front page of ESPN.com, the AP, etc. and get a grip!!! TG holds the cards, this is a textbook absorption and we should know by Tuesday what's going on.

I'll agree about the posts.(stupid) What cards would those be?

[OWFan19]

I'll agree about the posts.(stupid) What cards would those be?

A series that is marketable, with drivers that remain for the full year, with new sponsors, television that is Live, and one of the largest races in the history of motorsports.

[sanguin]

A series that is marketable, with drivers that remain for the full year, with new sponsors, television that is Live, and one of the largest races in the history of motorsports.

They are hurting for sponsors and cars.The drivers are leaving for nascar,the 500 is a shell of its former self, and the tv contract is in jeopardy because of falling ratings.

[OWFan19]

They are hurting for sponsors and cars.The drivers are leaving for nascar,the 500 is a shell of its former self, and the tv contract is in jeopardy because of falling ratings.

Sure they are hunting for Sponsors and Cars. the 500 is still huge. and prove to me the t.v. contract is in jeopardy.

Once again you are :s mokin:

[garyshell]

They are hurting for sponsors and cars.The drivers are leaving for nascar,the 500 is a shell of its former self, and the tv contract is in jeopardy because of falling ratings.


Ok, lets take up the topic of sponsors just one more time. Last time you TOTALLY ignored this post but here is the link to it. I now DARE you to ignore it again:

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=415307&#post415307

Ball is in your court.

Gary

[cartpix]

Didn't CC just hire a new PR Director? Imagine what that poor guy must be thinking today...Geesh

Actually that guy is a woman. I believe she came out of the Ganassi stable. I was thinking about that, myself. I'm sure Pat will land well. She's pretty well know & has a lot of experience.

Jeff

[sanguin]

Ok, lets take up the topic of sponsors just one more time. Last time you TOTALLY ignored this post but here is the link to it. I now DARE you to ignore it again:

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=415307&#post415307

Ball is in your court.

Gary

answered it. kind of surprised you weren't aware how much honda plays a part in sponsorship.

[garyshell]

answered it. kind of surprised you weren't aware how much honda plays a part in sponsorship.


And you would know the details of this how???

But just for the sake of argument, let's say this IS true, all it means is that Honda has FACILITATED these sponsorships. Do you REALLY think that Honda is paying to have Seven Eleven's name on the side pods. You can be certain if it is a B2B, that Honda is getting something in return.

But now let's look at the other side of the aisle for a moment. How many cars had major consumer sponsor's on the side pods. One. And oh gee, guess what that is a confirmed B2B relationship too.

Game, Set, Match...

Gary

[sanguin]

And you would know the details of this how???

But just for the sake of argument, let's say this IS true, all it means is that Honda has FACILITATED these sponsorships. Do you REALLY think that Honda is paying to have Seven Eleven's name on the side pods. You can be certain if it is a B2B, that Honda is getting something in return.

But now let's look at the other side of the aisle for a moment. How many cars had major consumer sponsor's on the side pods. One. And oh gee, guess what that is a confirmed B2B relationship too.

Gary

Yes 7-eleven is a b2b, with honda and their plants in Japan with food service. Let's look at the sponsorships. Target has been with Ganassi and has products pay for placement. AGR has honda associates as does Panther with Delphi, and Penske has Marlboro. Other than that what sponsors has the IRL attracted? They need ride buyers just like CC. The problem is their schedule, which is mostly in the midwest and on ovals not in big market areas. That is really their downfall. They have the 500 and a bunch of supporting races that are expendable.

[tbyars]

Yes 7-eleven is a b2b, with honda and their plants in Japan with food service.

All I can tell you is that you are wrong. I know that for a 100% fact. That's all I can say, and no, I have no link. Well, at least my link is in the bathroom fixing her hair.


Target has been with Ganassi and has products pay for placement.

So what. They still write Chip a big check every year. In fact, they had enough stuff with Chip that Target is the reason he ran in the Indy 500 in the first place. Look back far enough in these forums, and you will find posts where I reported in about 1998 that Chip had been given an ultimatum by Dayton Hudson (then the corporate name for what is now Target, Corp.) that he would be in the Indy 500 by 2000 or his support would be withdrawn. So are you telling us that Target used to send a check when he was with CART, but when he moved to the IRL at Target's request, it became b2b? That makes no sense. By the way, that information came to me directly from the mouth of the lady who was DH's director of marketing.


AGR has honda associates as does Panther with Delphi, and Penske has Marlboro.

All who write BIG checks. Your point?


Other than that what sponsors has the IRL attracted? They need ride buyers just like CC. The problem is their schedule, which is mostly in the midwest and on ovals not in big market areas. That is really their downfall. They have the 500 and a bunch of supporting races that are expendable.

Funny, I don't see an "IMO" there. I want to see your link that those races are expendable. Expendible to who?

[garyshell]

Yes 7-eleven is a b2b, with honda and their plants in Japan with food service. Let's look at the sponsorships. Target has been with Ganassi and has products pay for placement. AGR has honda associates as does Panther with Delphi, and Penske has Marlboro. Other than that what sponsors has the IRL attracted? They need ride buyers just like CC. The problem is their schedule, which is mostly in the midwest and on ovals not in big market areas. That is really their downfall. They have the 500 and a bunch of supporting races that are expendable.


Who gives a flying **** if it is a b2b relationship, money is money especially if it is money from CONSUMER ORIENTED PRODUCTS!!!!!

That's why we were all so happy when Paul Newman used the leverage of the Newman's Own brand to get McDonalds on the side pods of their car. Or were YOU not happy with that?

Again, I ask how many teams on our side of the aisle are sporting consumer oriented sponsor names on the side pods? And unlike some others here, I'll even give you Sonny's BBQ as one.

Gary

[FerrrariF1]

I'll agree about the posts.(stupid) What cards would those be?

TG holds Miller's hardcard and he wants wants it back. So by Miller doing his part to destroy Champcar Miller gets his hardcard back from George. Quite simple really.....

[gofastandwynn]

TG holds Miller's hardcard and he wants wants it back. So by Miller doing his part to destroy Champcar Miller gets his hardcard back from George. Quite simple really.....

What?

[tbyars]

TG holds Miller's hardcard and he wants wants it back. So by Miller doing his part to destroy Champcar Miller gets his hardcard back from George. Quite simple really.....

Now that is something I want to see a link for!

[indycool]

I never thought I'd see any posts more out of bounds than sanguin's, but Ferrrari F1, you oughta have about six smilies on that one to let us know you aren't serious.

[cartpix]

TG holds Miller's hardcard and he wants wants it back. So by Miller doing his part to destroy Champcar Miller gets his hardcard back from George. Quite simple really.....


That has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard, on this, or any other forum. First off, let me explain to you how hard cards work. Hard cards are NOT issued to people. Hard cards are issued to news outlets. Robin Miller's hard card is issued to Speed. This is where Champ Car bumbled it up, last summer. When they pulled Robin's hard card, they pulled Speed's hard card. Speed said **** that, we don't need to cover them, anyway. Champ Car looses THE last TV commentary, they had. The average fan doesn't come here. The average fan watches Speed Report, on Sunday night. If CC isn't featured, CC is invisable.

BTW, last I heard, Miller still has an IRL hard card...

Jeff

[Chaparral66]

That has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard, on this, or any other forum. First off, let me explain to you how hard cards work. Hard cards are NOT issued to people. Hard cards are issued to news outlets. Robin Miller's hard card is issued to Speed. This is where Champ Car bumbled it up, last summer. When they pulled Robin's hard card, they pulled Speed's hard card. Speed said **** that, we don't need to cover them, anyway. Champ Car looses THE last TV commentary, they had. The average fan doesn't come here. The average fan watches Speed Report, on Sunday night. If CC isn't featured, CC is invisable.

BTW, last I heard, Miller still has an IRL hard card...

Jeff

What he said...

[nanders]

That has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard, on this, or any other forum. First off, let me explain to you how hard cards work. Hard cards are NOT issued to people. Hard cards are issued to news outlets. Robin Miller's hard card is issued to Speed. This is where Champ Car bumbled it up, last summer. When they pulled Robin's hard card, they pulled Speed's hard card. Speed said **** that, we don't need to cover them, anyway. Champ Car looses THE last TV commentary, they had. The average fan doesn't come here. The average fan watches Speed Report, on Sunday night. If CC isn't featured, CC is invisable.

BTW, last I heard, Miller still has an IRL hard card...

Jeff

It was formerly a CART policy to issue a hardcard to web outlet reporters by name if you would make a commitment to 75% of the races.

[cartpix]

It was formerly a CART policy to issue a hardcard to web outlet reporters by name if you would make a commitment to 75% of the races.

Yes, but you still had an affiliate, the website. All hard cards are issued to reporters, by name, but they have to have an outlet. There are no freelance hard cards.

Jeff

[OWFan19]

TG holds Miller's hardcard and he wants wants it back. So by Miller doing his part to destroy Champcar Miller gets his hardcard back from George. Quite simple really.....

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

[indycool]

Ditto, OW19.......

[OWFan19]

Yes, but you still had an affiliate, the website. All hard cards are issued to reporters, by name, but they have to have an outlet. There are no freelance hard cards.

Jeff

I think you can be free lance, but you have to give a good explanation why you need it. Such as the event that you are sponsored by a team or driver.

[indycool]

Those are issued by everyone at the request of the media outlet, not the individual.

[Chaparral66]

I think the policy is the same in NASCAR as it is in Champ Car or the IRL. Hard cards are issued to individuals by name, but they must have a legitimate media connection to get one. You might even be a freelancer but you can't just show up and get a hard card, no matter how long you've been covering the sport. The viewpoint of the series is, that you must represent a proper and established media outlet and must cover the sport on a regular basis. That's easier to do when you've been a regular at the series and the series press person gets to know you. But if you don't have that media connect, you still can't get one.

[indycool]

It is done by media outlet for a number of reasons, not the least of which, waiver or not, if the guy/gal gets hit by a race car, the workmen's comp comes from the media outlet, not the track, team or sanctioning body.

[EagleEye]

KK-

"I believe there are significant advantages in doing [the merger], but I believe there are also significant advantages in not doing it. At this moment in time, there are no discussions until they move Motegi."

Captain of the Titanic/Bagdad Bob/Sanguin-

"I believe the significant advantages in hitting the iceberg far out weigh the advantages of not hitting it."

While you may not want to face the truth, for those that are part of open wheel racing, this news is the best and biggest since the split.

20 plus races, 24 plus cars, real race coverage instead of one hour "shows", no more timed races, Penske, NHL, AGR, Forsythe, Walker, Tracy, Wilson, Andretti, Neves, Wheldon, Dixon, Rahal, RHR, Kanaan and more. Ovals, RC's, and street races. And that one big race in Indy for all the marbles.

OK, the cars look like crap, BUT, I'll put up with them for two years, as the entire Champcar grid will. We will all get over it, and be able to finally talk about the races, which driver is best, what circuit is best, etc.

One series, one unified OW racing series in the US. Give it a chance. You know you want to! And, with one call to anyone in the sport, they would tell you the same.

[indycool]

Agree, EE. There will be those who will concern themselves on who's a winner and who's a loser, but, this time, THE SPORT wins.

[ChaimWitz]

Agree, EE. There will be those who will concern themselves on who's a winner and who's a loser, but, this time, THE SPORT wins.

Amen Indycool, Amen.

[Chaparral66]

Agree, EE. There will be those who will concern themselves on who's a winner and who's a loser, but, this time, THE SPORT wins.

Let's hope that comes true, IC. But the jury will be out for those two years.

[FormerFF]

Agree, EE. There will be those who will concern themselves on who's a winner and who's a loser, but, this time, THE SPORT wins.


Hey, we all know who won the open wheel war: NASCAR.