Before anyone gets ahead of themselves....

[BobGarage]

lets all hang on a minute.

The only true facts that come from his article are the two statements from TG and KK.


“It’s as close as it’s ever been to being together, but we don’t know if we can get across the goal line,” said George on Thursday evening. “But no one is giving up yet.”

Added Kalkhoven: “Both sides want this to happen very much and we’re working on it.”


The only person saying it will happen in 08 is Robin Miller.
The only person saying they will be using dallaras is Robin Miller.
The only person saying it will be the IRL schedule plus 3 CC races is Robin Miller.

All the other quotes in the article are reactions to Robin Miller ringing team owners and saying "what are your thoughts on a merger happening for 08".

The facts of the matter are that yes they are talking about a merger, but even TG admits they don't even know if they'll get across the goal line on it. That is not a comment from someone expecting the deal to be done before the start fo this season.

Most of us know a merger needs to happen, and are happy to except a merger needs to happen. But looking at the facts in Robins article.... it won't happen for 08. Maybe 09.

Lets hope they do it for 09.

[sanguin]

Cotman was interviewed on the radio last night on "National Speed Sport News Report Hosted by Bob Jenkins on RaceFanRadio.com". He thinks a merger could happen in a 3-year time frame in his opinion. I guess he doesn't know what's going on in the IRL. He even said it was his opinion, not actually what is going on.

[garyshell]

Cotman was interviewed on the radio last night on "National Speed Sport News Report Hosted by Bob Jenkins on RaceFanRadio.com". He thinks a merger could happen in a 3-year time frame in his opinion. I guess he doesn't know what's going on in the IRL. He even said it was his opinion, not actually what is going on.


Or, more likely, he is being smart and keeping his mouth shut, since his job description does not include merger talks.

Gary

[Chris R]

Bob is right - lets not pop the corks on the champagne quite yet....

that being said - I am very optimistic this time around..... (why not be optimistic - the alternative is downright discouraging)

[Alexamateo]

Merger may hinge on Motegi? (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080208/SPORTS0107/802080490/)

Some key quotes from KK at the end of the article.

[Chris R]

KK is giving good advice - let keep our fingers crossed and mouths shut :-)

[sanguin]

Merger may hinge on Motegi? (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080208/SPORTS0107/802080490/)

Some key quotes from KK at the end of the article.

Yep-

"Champ Car co-owner Kevin Kalkhoven stressed that no offer has been made from either series and, therefore, no deal has been agreed to, as has been reported on the Internet.
"I sent Tony a text (message) last night to find out what is going on," he said.
George said he would like to accommodate the Champ Car events that make sense, both from a calendar and a financial standpoint. But he compared this situation to discussions that occurred in 2002 when the assets of Champ Car's parent company (CART) went to bankruptcy court.
"That was in January, and it was too late in the year to make all these (schedule) changes," he said. "You just can't go changing all the dates around when you have contracts."
International Speedway Corp., which owns several tracks that host races on the IRL's schedule, recently refused a request to move the April 27 race at Kansas Speedway in order for the Japan race to take that date.

Kalkhoven wants everyone not involved in the discussions to get out of the way.
"Once again, as has happened previously in the past four years, somebody has leaked a story to the press, and the press has turned it into a tornado," he said. "Now it has everyone running around in a circle. It's almost malicious, and it disappoints and infuriates me."

[gofastandwynn]

Yep-

"Champ Car co-owner Kevin Kalkhoven stressed that no offer has been made from either series and, therefore, no deal has been agreed to, as has been reported on the Internet.
"I sent Tony a text (message) last night to find out what is going on," he said.
George said he would like to accommodate the Champ Car events that make sense, both from a calendar and a financial standpoint. But he compared this situation to discussions that occurred in 2002 when the assets of Champ Car's parent company (CART) went to bankruptcy court.
"That was in January, and it was too late in the year to make all these (schedule) changes," he said. "You just can't go changing all the dates around when you have contracts."
International Speedway Corp., which owns several tracks that host races on the IRL's schedule, recently refused a request to move the April 27 race at Kansas Speedway in order for the Japan race to take that date.

Kalkhoven wants everyone not involved in the discussions to get out of the way.
"Once again, as has happened previously in the past four years, somebody has leaked a story to the press, and the press has turned it into a tornado," he said. "Now it has everyone running around in a circle. It's almost malicious, and it disappoints and infuriates me."

A text message? What's wrong KK, are you low on minutes?

And nice from KK "We had a deal, but now people know about it and it can't happen"....What?

[dataman1]

Cotman was acting in his new job and covering his A** on the radio. He knows more and that is why he moved his boat out of the CCWS warehouse earlier this week. Can you say bankruptcy?

[sanguin]

Cotman was acting in his new job and covering his A** on the radio. He knows more and that is why he moved his boat out of the CCWS warehouse earlier this week. Can you say bankruptcy?

There is no BK, nice try.
Cotman was on the wrong side of Forsythe.Do you think he is going to save the IRL? He has his work cut out for him.

[CCFan]

... Cotman was on the wrong side of Forsythe...

Therein lies one of the problems with CC's mgmt. No way, in a properly managed series, should one of the team owners be able to threaten the livelyhood of the guy making the calls on rules infractions.

[sanguin]

Therein lies one of the problems with CC's mgmt. No way, in a properly managed series, should one of the team owners be able to threaten the livelyhood of the guy making the calls on rules infractions.

There were a lot of teams and fans that didn't agree with Cotman's calls.

Cotman started with the IRL and he returned, maybe he can save them. It's not going to mean anything to CC.

[CCFan]

There were a lot of teams and fans that didn't agree with Cotman's calls.

Agreed. It's one of the ways in which to tell that he's being as fair & impartial as can be.


Cotman started with the IRL and he returned, maybe he can save them. It's not going to mean anything to CC.

You're right, it probably won't mean anything to CC as it is not likely to be around after 2008 anyway.

[sanguin]

Agreed. It's one of the ways in which to tell that he's being as fair & impartial as can be.



You're right, it probably won't mean anything to CC as it is not likely to be around after 2008 anyway.

Why the talk of merger? Shouldn't TG just sit around and wait?

[heelntoe]

Why the talk of merger? Shouldn't TG just sit around and wait?

There will be no merger...it will be a "unification", or in technical terms, an absorption of teams and a few of this and that...beyond, CCWS goes bankrupt.

[FlatChatRacer]

Sanguin,

There is no merger. It's a hostile takeover.

Face it, Champ Car is dying. You weren't even privy to the discussions. I know it's hard for a loyalist like yourself to take, but the owners don't care about your feelings or situation.

Their making deals to end Champ Car and they haven't told you!

I hope you will still go to Long Beach even though it may be IRL type cars traversing the streets?

Don't ask for a refund, watch the race, you might grow to love the IRL as much as you love Champ Car. Never know until you try?

[HiWayStar]

Don't ask for a refund, watch the race, you might grow to love the IRL as much as you love Champ Car. Never know until you try?


Not as long as there are butt-ugly lawn darts racing on 1.5 mi cookie cutter ovals...

TG may have won...but AOWR lost...

[gofastandwynn]

Not as long as there are butt-ugly lawn darts racing on 1.5 mi cookie cutter ovals...

TG may have won...but AOWR lost...

For those of you playing at home...

Kübler-Ross model aka "Five Stages of Grief"

The stages are:

1. Denial: The initial stage: "Champ car is fine."
2. Anger: "It's not fair. IRL sucks."
3. Bargaining: "Only if we use the DP-01 & Turbos."
4. Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with the last season?"
5. Acceptance: "It's going to be OK I still have the internet to flame on."

[FlatChatRacer]

HiWayStar,

Trust me, 2008 is the final year of the Ugly Dallara cars in American Open Wheel.

I can take one year of the ugly cars, if it leads to a unification and better racing between the best drivers.

The cars from 2009 onwards, will be a lot better looking. If I am wrong, you can call me on it and I will eat crow. Better still, I will meet you at a race in the future and buy you breakfast, lunch, dinner and all the beer you want on Race Day, if I am wrong about this.

I am that confident.

[Cart750hp]

I agree, FlatChatRacer.

[cartpix]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Haters can find fault in anything.

Jeff

[HiWayStar]

1. Denial: The initial stage: "Champ car is fine."

No, CC is not fine...neither is the IRL...neither will a combined series be. (how's that for a dose of reality?)


2. Anger: "It's not fair. IRL sucks."

Life's not fair: WGAF. TG wins...another dose of reality.


3. Bargaining: "Only if we use the DP-01 & Turbos."

no one on an internet forum has any position to bargain on anything: more reality


4.Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with the last season?"

Depression? OWR is entertainment. CC fans will find something else to entertain them. ALMS comes to mind...


5. Acceptance: "It's going to be OK I still have the internet to flame on."

People stating their opinion is not flaming. You are entitled to your opinion...as are others. Got a problem with that? Call the mod's..

[Cart750hp]

No, CC is not fine...neither is the IRL...neither will a combined series be. (how's that for a dose of reality?)

You say that because you don't have any loyalty to AOWR. We understand.



Life's not fair: WGAF. TG wins...another dose of reality.

Yep, CC had a chance to fix the series right. They failed due to mismanagement and lies.....another dose of reality.


Depression? OWR is entertainment. CC fans will find something else to entertain them. ALMS comes to mind...

You don't happen to speak for me as a CC fan coz I'll be following where the CC goes.


People stating their opinion is not flaming. You are entitled to your opinion...as are others. Got a problem with that? Call the mod's..

We, for sure, don't have a problem with it. I guess, it's more of what is the difference of talking to the fanatics and talking to diversed opinion. It's how you get along with others than getting along with your own kind.

[HiWayStar]

You say that because you don't have any loyalty to AOWR. We understand.

"We?" I attended my 1st I500 in '73...Road America a year later. Been attending races ever since. No loyalty? Try again...



Yep, CC had a chance to fix the series right. They failed due to mismanagement and lies.....another dose of reality.

no real argument from he there. But I'd call it "cluelessness" more than anything.


You don't happen to speak for me as a CC fan coz I'll be following where the CC goes.

Don't really get it, do you?: no more CC. IRL = only game in town. Don't like what you see? Tough shishky... ...If you like today's IRL, you're gonna love the combined series. I happen to prefer other forms of racing.


We, for sure, don't have a problem with it. I guess, it's more of what is the difference of talking to the fanatics and talking to diversed opinion. It's how you get along with others than getting along with your own kind.

1st of all, who is "we" you keep referring to??? If you are speaking for CC fans, I assure you, you do not speak for me. If you are content to settle for IRL racing, then whatever floats your boat. Hope you're easily amused...you'll need to be.
As for myself, I'm not ashamed to be politically incorrect, as far as the attitude of posters on this forum is concerned. I'll call a spade a spade: CC is rolling over & dying, & will cease to exist. If you are the CC fan you claim to be, then you won't like the deal, either.

[bblocker68]

If we cant have Turbo's, how about an alternative:

Do Honda and Cosworth have a few 2 year old V-10's laying around?? I'm sure they do.
How would those look fitted into the Panoz DP-09?? I bet the DP-01 could be retro-fitted to accommodate them. A speeway wing package could soon follow that and we'd be ready for 2010.

[gofastandwynn]

no one on an internet forum has any position to bargain on anything: more reality




That hasn't stopped them. See post above...

[HiWayStar]

That hasn't stopped them. See post above...

The man's making a suggestion, not bargaining. He probably likes the lawn darts about as much as I do...& the only thing worse than the way they look is the way they sound. I'd go for a V10. They were great in F1. Honda has one...so does Cosworth. A decent compromise. And an adaptation of a DP01...a design that's light years ahead of the lawn darts...would be more practical & cost effective than starting from scratch, yet again...decent suggestions, IMO...(I'd still prefer the turbo)

[stmookeyj]

The cars from 2009 onwards, will be a lot better looking. If I am wrong, you can call me on it and I will eat crow. Better still, I will meet you at a race in the future and buy you breakfast, lunch, dinner and all the beer you want on Race Day, if I am wrong about this.

I am that confident.

Not if it's the one proposed from 2010 onwards....

[Nikki Katz]

I think that this will happen, but I agree that although they seem to be trying for this season, all the noises bar the original article that I've heard seem to imply that that's too soon, due to contracts, different cars, etc, would be very hard to iron out in 2 months.
I'd be surprised if it didn't happen in 2009 though as I don't really see how long CC can carry on as it is, and the demise of CC alone probably won't increase IRL's viewing figures that much. Both need a merger.

[sanguin]

I think that this will happen, but I agree that although they seem to be trying for this season, all the noises bar the original article that I've heard seem to imply that that's too soon, due to contracts, different cars, etc, would be very hard to iron out in 2 months.
I'd be surprised if it didn't happen in 2009 though as I don't really see how long CC can carry on as it is, and the demise of CC alone probably won't increase IRL's viewing figures that much. Both need a merger.

This is a more realistic view of what's going on, but CC can carry on as their costs are much less than the IRL. There is no indication that TG or the IRL will be in charge and there are no decisions on cars, engines or events.

[tbyars]

Has to happen for 2008 at this point.

The CCWS management holds no confidence at this point with everyone knowing they are on their last year if they run in 2008. They will be on a cash-in-advance basis with suppliers, there will be NO sponsorship. With no guarantees of being on the new schedule, venues may want out, adn will certainly do little promotion for their events. It would be very hard, at this point, to be a lame duck series.

The only way it waits for 2009 is if CCWS simply suspends operations for 2008 in order to make plans for 2009.

[garyshell]

This is a more realistic view of what's going on, but CC can carry on as their costs are much less than the IRL. There is no indication that TG or the IRL will be in charge and there are no decisions on cars, engines or events.


Do you have a spreadsheet to backup that first assertion. And what planet have you been on the past few days if you REALLY believe the second one.

Gary