Is Open-Wheel Peace Finally at Hand?

[E5C4P3]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/open-wheel-peace-at-hand/

[Cart750hp]

More fanatics' attack at RM's article below. Suicidal alert has raised to Orange.

[E5C4P3]

We have heard so many romours in the past, but this one seems more promising.

Possible schedule:
Homestead
St. Petersburg
Long Beach
Motegi
Kansas City?
Indy
Milwaukee
Fort Worth
Iowa
Richmond
Toronto?
Nashville
Edmonton?
Kentucky
Sonoma
Detroit
Chicago
Australia
Mexico?

Maybe gone:
Houston
Laguna Seca
Zolder
Jerez
Cleveland
Mount Tremblant
Portland
Road America
Assen
Watkins Glen?
Mid Ohio?

For 2009, I would like to keep Mount Tremblant, Road America and Mid Ohio and drop Homestead, Iowa and Richmond.

[OWFan19]

This is great news. Lets hope this works out. I would love nothing more than to see 30 or more open wheel cars on the track at the same time at every race.

[clydekart]

If this is true,then there will be only 3 CC races LB, ED, & SP and the rest IRL venues. I hope both series have some good legal representation as I am sure contracts have been signed for all 2008 CC races. What about Toronto?
There must be more to the article as this seems like a one-sided deal in favour of IRL.
May be CC will send the Atlantics (using the Panoz) to their races that have been deleted--If so, these are the races I will watch.
Good luck to all the people who like to watch low-tech race cars go in circles.

[ShiftingGears]

We have heard so many romours in the past, but this one seems more promising.

Possible schedule:
Homestead
St. Petersburg
Long Beach
Motegi
Kansas City?
Indy
Milwaukee
Fort Worth
Iowa
Richmond
Toronto?
Nashville
Edmonton?
Kentucky
Sonoma
Detroit
Chicago
Australia
Mexico?

Maybe gone:
Houston
Laguna Seca
Zolder
Jerez
Cleveland
Mount Tremblant
Portland
Road America
Assen
Watkins Glen?
Mid Ohio?

For 2009, I would like to keep Mount Tremblant, Road America and Mid Ohio and drop Homestead, Iowa and Richmond.

A combined schedule would just be wrong without Watkins Glen and Road America. I'd much prefer less than 40% ovals on the calendar, and less poky street circuits. On a side note, I hope this results in better racing.

[garyshell]

Hang on to your hollyhocks!

Gary

[Cart750hp]

The other "website", guys, go have fun and start reading their stuff. I'm still laughing as I type this.

I will see you guys in Long Beach, as a start of this one series, if this will happen this year.

[OWFan19]

If this is true,then there will be only 3 CC races LB, ED, & SP and the rest IRL venues. I hope both series have some good legal representation as I am sure contracts have been signed for all 2008 CC races. What about Toronto?
There must be more to the article as this seems like a one-sided deal in favour of IRL.
May be CC will send the Atlantics (using the Panoz) to their races that have been deleted--If so, these are the races I will watch.
Good luck to all the people who like to watch low-tech race cars go in circles.

Undoubtedly, many hardcore fans like yourself are going to feel left out. But as someone with strong ties to people at Champ Car, this is going to help out everyone. A stronger, unified series, allows for more tech in the future. Its a one sided deal in favor of the IRL, because Champ Car had little to offer. Sorry, but Champ Car has little value anymore, and this will be the smartest decision that Champ Car has made. Too many screw ups. Now to future.

[Cart750hp]

Congratulations, OWFan19! You just got counted down in the fanatics!! BTW, funny how an old rejected blue man group was the last one who counted you down.

Two guys that I know are also posting right now in fanatics, and they both keeping it low key. They're already over 1000 post and the fanatics couldn't even notice a thing.

[namarow]

the countdown.... God help them

Well this is beyond strange.
If the cars they use are the IRLs carsI lose 30% interest right away
If they lose Clevland , Road america for Kansas etc lose 20%
If I have to walk through a paddock and see TG's winning, smug %*(&face as the clear winner I think you can count me down as a bigger F1 fan next year

interesting

[Cart750hp]

I know what you mean, namarow.

I really can't picture myself watching a unified series in a Dallara cars. But since this sound so quick and time is running out to merge the series, well, that's what they probably come down to. I'm a bit interested to how both series will spread their advantage more than the disadvantage. But for folks who wants to see a one series finally, if this what it comes down to, then it sure sound a good start.

[SoCalPVguy]

Will believe it when it finally happens for sure. Been burned too many times before get my hopes up. Not the optimum solution in my opinion, but it's time that AOWL got under one roof for the survival of both series. The ****wagons are tolerable, and then a stronger unified series can work out a better car chassis/engine formula later. Get 'er done boys and let's go racing.

[Cart750hp]

SoCalPVguy, this is more than obvious that both side of the fence are fixing their differences just to save the sport. That's a start. Hearing team owners in CC, and loyal drivers are now leaving their "anti-IRL" agenda behind so, it's gotten better than the past 4 years. When did you hear JV talking about merger? How about Paul Tracy, himself? And NHR? I say, it's a start. This year or not....one series is where it's gonna end eventually.

[namarow]

I know deep down this is what BOTH series need to survive, but not at al costs, and not like this. TG is clearly moron. He may be winning, but only because too many Americans can not see past Indy. Anf of course a massive bank account to throw at his problems.

TG running the show!?
Ugly **** boxes
more ovals than road and street courses

I know that seeing Pimpski against NHR etc again will be good for the sport. But again, I just can not support it the way Miller has described. If Champcar is not Cart, then this is as far as jupiter to it. And that is too far too support.

I hope to get some clarity tommorow morning as once again I have let myself get all upset about what a bunch of rich guys do with their spare time.

[electron]

I hope they keep the Miss Indy contests.

[ChaimWitz]

Is this the likely 2008 Schedule?
IRL Originated races are in Bold

1) Homestead*Former CART Race and Current IRL race
2) St. Pete*Former CART Race and Current IRL race
3) Motegi*Former CART Race and Current IRL race
4) Long Beach**Former CART and current ChampCar Race
5) Kansas City
6) Indy Former USAC race (counted for PPG IndyCar-CART-Points)
7) Milwaukee*Former CART and ChampCar Race (+USAC and AAA)
8) Fort Worth
9) Watkins Glen*[Former CART Race and Current IRL race
10) Mid Ohio*Former CART Race and Current IRL race
11) Iowa
12) Richmond
13) Nashville
14) Edmonton**Current ChampCar Race
15) Kentucky
16) Sonoma Former USAC race
17) Detroit*Former CART Race and Current IRL race
18) Chicago
19) Australia*Former CART and current ChampCar Race

Think about this:

9 CART and ChampCar originated races (2 oval races and 7 road races)
2 Traditional legacy events: Indy + Milwaukee ( 2 oval races)
8 IRL Originated races ( 7 oval races and 1 road race)

11 Oval Races
8 Road Races

[jimispeed]

I will never forget the sounds and smells of the turbo's as the DP01's fly by........


Dallaras.................................depressin g.



If it's true, I'll never forget Champcar



I'll never forget who screwed it for his own ego.......


I doubt we'll ever see the full potential of what Champcar should have been if TG is in power. His so called "Vision" isn't true, and isn't his own....


I'll shed a few tears over this one!!


Goodbye Cleveland, Mont Tremblant, Road America, Europe.


True road courses, airport courses and street courses will be diminished by boring ovals.

Their would be no 100th anniversary of the Vanderbilt Cup in Savannah GA.

I'll never forget.

Turbo's DP01's The Champcar festival events at the track

[h2oman]

you have got to be frickin kiddin me

[Cart750hp]

Welcome back, h2oman.

After 2-3 years reading your post here, after your farewell, now you're back.

It's a start.

[h2oman]

Only cuz the other forum is locked up. You wanna buy my LB tix if this is true?

[Cart750hp]

Oh come on. Hmmm...how about a beer in yardhouse? Cartpix, SoCalPVguy, you and I are all SouthBay guys. If you can say hi to Tifosi in fanatics, he's a SouthBay too. I bet he'll bring his bad a$$ guitar epuipment on that weekend. How about that?

[h2oman]

Not gonna watch Dallara's groan around the Beach. And I never said goodbye, I just stopped posting here.

[ShiftingGears]

Also, I'll believe it when I see it.

But a mostly oval schedule without DP-01s and the real circuits like Watkins Glen, Road America, Mid Ohio and Mont Tremblant is not my idea of the perfect series. I hope that if this is true someone comes to their senses.

[Cart750hp]

Not gonna watch Dallara's groan around the Beach. And I never said goodbye, I just stopped posting here.

Well, Atlantics and GrandAm are there so...no need to listen to the crappy Honda's N/A. You really don't have to.

[h2oman]

The main event would be gone for me. Seeing anything other than what I loved pre-'95 running the Beach, sans F1, is a slap in the face to me

Edit: And it would be ALMS, not GrandAm.......and FWIW, I hated when GrandAm raced here, but I still had my CC

[Cart750hp]

h20man, it will be just fine. Give it a shot. Between me and you, I haven't seen an IRL race live or finished more than 20 laps of their race. But since none of us or no one has seen all of the best drivers of both sides racing together, I'm up for it. We will never know until they do.

[h2oman]

You're right, but I cannot begin to think of watching what I loathed happening for 13 years coast by my seats that I coveted for so long. It's like TG found me in my grandstand and came up and smacked me upside the face. Do you honestly think CC drivers can climb into those Dallara kites and compete with the old CART money?

[h2oman]

But it's all good CART, if this is true, I will watch F1, and this farce of a "merge"<---cuz it's not, it's a buyout, can cruise around Shoreline in my backyard while I watch the Masters on TV. God knows I'll be able to hear em from my house.

[gofastandwynn]

I am going to say this and then go to bed.

We need to do this merger right. From what it sounds like at this point in the season it has to be thrown together. Why was Toronto & Mexico city on the previous plan RM reported on but not now? And with Surfers coming so far after Chicagoland how will they get that to work? If this thing is thrown together quickly it will never last.

At this point I would be perfectly happy if they made the announcement that they will continue to run separate series in 2008 with maybe some combined events, then merger fully in 09. That gives Cosworth time to go back to work in the 3.5 NA engine, Dallara more time to build the cars needed. Market it as the last season for CC, a farewell tour or whatever. And leave May open so that any CC team can run in the 500. I want to see this done right so it lasts.

But hey, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong...

[millencolin]

why use dallaras? they need an update so get the panoz's oval ready (aparently they can be raced on ovals, so they said at that launch....) then allow dallara to build a better, not so ugly chassis.

[Andrewmcm]

More Dallaras available I'd imagine.

[seppefan]

They should run 08 and merge 09. Seems crazy to put all this pressure on and law suits and .....guess CC car count was 13, no Walker , no Minardi or 15, one from each. Panic. Waiting till 09 will end up saving them more as giving a total , max of $5m to Walker and Minardi to rune a car each will be cheaper than merging in 08. Conquest will sue for a $1m. Tracks will sue, what about FA and IPS.....what about all the European rounds ( I was about to book Jerez next week ! ) Also no CC and few OW£ fan will take to the crap wagons. KK really is giving away masses also with Cossie. He must be getting some equity in the new operation . Early days.

[V12]

Panoz still have their old G-Force based IRL chassis knocking about don't they? I know they lost a bit of competitiveness to the Dallara while they were distracted with the DP01, but it has won races and a championship so I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with it..just lacking a bit of development?

[Dr. Krogshöj]

A respectable publication shouldn't give room for unification rumors. It should rather be a little bit late one time than wrong several times every year.

[speeddurango]

What am I thinking about is if there's still this 24 cars cap, I read on another artible which says they will still keep their 24 cars cap for each race so there should be at least more than 10 cars in both series not going to take to the race, I'm sure it'll be a much tighter competition with only this maximum car count to enter each race but I fancy there may be more people like to see more car in each race in an old fashioned way, what do you guys think?

[MAX_THRUST]

I can't see Cleveland or Toronto being dropped, even Road America should be kept at all costs, and the Mexico race.

Why can't honda reintorduce the old Turbo engines again?

Why cap the teams who enter, if more want to enter races let them try and qualify like the old days the crap teams go home......

[pvtjoker]

This is great news!!!!! Lets hope it actually happens this time!

Now, I know some here may say TG will have won the "Open Wheel war", but in reality we ALL lost something during the last 13 years. Its about friggin' time this happens.

It'll be nice to talk racing again.

[MAX_THRUST]

There is no reason why this can't happen this season. Yes it will be tight on time, but it is very much doable. If the will is there then it will happen.

As for contracts, all contracts have get out clauses. If they don't then CCWSD really were bad business men. they can afford to cancel the races it would be cheaper than running a race which no one goes to any way.

As for the death of CCWS I will be relieved. The death of CART was terrible, the death of CCWS will be a relief as this last two seasons have been a joke. If you think its was great thenyou never watched a CART race. That is the standard we need to reach now. Professional looking, well attended and respected. If a new merged series can emulate CART with out all the stupid mistakes and have learnt from the past then we will all be winners and you will soon forget the crap that was the IRL and CCWS.

I hope it becomes known as the INDY CAR WORLD SERIES> very american.

[heelntoe]

This is great news!!!!! Lets hope it actually happens this time!

Now, I know some here may say TG will have won the "Open Wheel war", but in reality we ALL lost something during the last 13 years. Its about friggin' time this happens.

It'll be nice to talk racing again.

Amen, brother! So where's Sanguin, Mike15, FerrariF1 and good ole' Pat Wiatrowski with their denials and whatever?! I'm so glad I guessed that much would still happen before the series opener a few days ago :)

[Chris R]

wooo hoooo hopefully it is the real deal...

at this point the details are almost un-important - I can live with Dallaras for a season or two and I can live with NA engines if needed... If they want to move forward in the long haul the formula needs to be updated for either series.... Here looking for high mechanical grip, high horsepower 4 cyl turbos in 2010!!!

[sanguin]

So RM gets the scoop and everyone copies it?

Yea right.

Did TG and Honda cough up the money to buyout GF and KK?

That's the only scenario that fits this fantasy.

[Andrewmcm]

Maybe. Maybe it's the case that some major teams wanted to bolt, so the CCWS management decided to get the money while they still could? Maybe the CCWS owners had enough of pouring money into a black hole and decided enough was enough - would you throw money away like that if you had it?

You can bleat all you like about the IRL not being a big hit even though it has the 500, but CCWS is an even smaller hit and it doesn't have the 500. For a US-based open wheel series to be successful it seems that it has to run at the Indy 500, and that's what was wrong with the post-1996 CART and CCWS. A unified series, no matter who is in control, will be a much more attractive proposition to TV and sponsors as all the teams will race at the same time in the same venue week in, week out. Normal punters will tune in and find the same drives in the same cars (no confusion as to which series they have stumbled across), and sponsors will get a better exposure with "Indycar World Series" (or whatever it will be called") race winners.

It all makes sense. Who cares what they drive? Let's just get on with it and enjoy a (hopefully) unified series.

[pvtjoker]

So RM gets the scoop and everyone copies it?

Yea right.

Did TG and Honda cough up the money to buyout GF and KK?

That's the only scenario that fits this fantasy.

Uh-huh. I expected such a reply from you.

See you in Long Beach. LOL

[sanguin]

Maybe. Maybe it's the case that some major teams wanted to bolt, so the CCWS management decided to get the money while they still could? Maybe the CCWS owners had enough of pouring money into a black hole and decided enough was enough - would you throw money away like that if you had it?

You can bleat all you like about the IRL not being a big hit even though it has the 500, but CCWS is an even smaller hit and it doesn't have the 500. For a US-based open wheel series to be successful it seems that it has to run at the Indy 500, and that's what was wrong with the post-1996 CART and CCWS. A unified series, no matter who is in control, will be a much more attractive proposition to TV and sponsors as all the teams will race at the same time in the same venue week in, week out. Normal punters will tune in and find the same drives in the same cars (no confusion as to which series they have stumbled across), and sponsors will get a better exposure with "Indycar World Series" (or whatever it will be called") race winners.

It all makes sense. Who cares what they drive? Let's just get on with it and enjoy a (hopefully) unified series.

Either TG and whoever pays up to control OW, or an agreeable merger with all parties involved is reached. Neither has happened.A merger right now is only for Honda's and TG's benefit, to keep honda in OW.

I'm all for merger, but not at any cost. If anything happened in the future, I would decide if it is what I like OW to be or not. I doubt that any series under TG's control would be adequate or successful. IMO.

[Andrewmcm]

Either TG and whoever pays up to control OW, or an agreeable merger with all parties involved is reached. Neither has happened.A merger right now is only for Honda's and TG's benefit, to keep honda in OW.

I'm all for merger, but not at any cost. If anything happened in the future, I would decide if it is what I like OW to be or not. I doubt that any series under TG's control would be adequate or successful. IMO.

And what reason do Cosworth have for staying in CCWS? Oh yeah, the owners of CCWS own Cosworth. It's not as though Cosworth can take out adverts in a national newspaper promoting their range of cars by congratulating XYZ driver on winning a race that hardly any of the mainstream public know about. Honda can do it with the 500 but what other races? Won't a unified series help bring that kind of brand exposure and prestige back to American Open Wheel Racing?

A merger only being for Honda and Tony George's benefit is the most ridiculous statement I've heard in a long time. Imagine a unified series with sponsors, brand exposure, the ability for drivers to earn a decent living, minimal pay drivers, engine competition (that Honda wants) and so on. Is that a bad thing, really?

[heelntoe]

Either TG and whoever pays up to control OW, or an agreeable merger with all parties involved is reached. Neither has happened.A merger right now is only for Honda's and TG's benefit, to keep honda in OW.

I'm all for merger, but not at any cost. If anything happened in the future, I would decide if it is what I like OW to be or not. I doubt that any series under TG's control would be adequate or successful. IMO.

Truly unbelievable...and i guess Paul Newman's comment about this, "I think I've died and gone to heaven" was made up as well. Dude, give it up already.

[anthonyvop]

The only good thing to come out of that article is that finally, after everyone realizes it was a fabrication, they fire Robin Miller......AGAIN!!!!!

[EagleEye]

So RM gets the scoop and everyone copies it?

Yea right.

Did TG and Honda cough up the money to buyout GF and KK?

That's the only scenario that fits this fantasy.

How many team owners, drivers and promoters have you personally talked to in the last 48 hour? The last week? The last year or years?

From your continued stance it is easily apparent the answer is: zero.

It is great that you like Champcar, but ignoring the issues that have faced open wheel racing, and bashing any merger that does not fit your agenda, is myopic.

For the teams, drivers, manufacturers, crews and sponsors are all in favor of having one series. There will be some casualties, which is true with any war, but the survivors and potential growth a unified series will have, outweigh any short term losses.

There are extremely tough decisions being made by both sides, but the key word is they are working together. As for Honda, no other manufacturer has spent so much time, effort and money in supporting and promoting open wheel racing in the United Sates. I’m so at piece with Honda I’d support them even if they decided to give each team a two-cycle KT-100 go kart engine race with!

Again, there short term solution will be a hybrid, and might not be pretty. I agree the Panoz is a beautiful car, but the Dallara has been successful on ovals and road courses.

I’d be willing to go with a bit of ugly, as one series would be the inner beauty most have all longed for.


Call five team owners (other than Eric) and then report back what they tell you directly. Reporting…a concept that seems foreign to you.

Use your enthusiasm to support what ever change comes about. Open Wheel racing needs it!

[ChicagocrewIRL]

So RM gets the scoop and everyone copies it?

Yea right.

Did TG and Honda cough up the money to buyout GF and KK?

That's the only scenario that fits this fantasy.


pooooooor sanguin

[sanguin]

I have no doubt that if you called all the teams from both CC and the IRL, they would all say there needs to be one series.That's no secret. Does RM ever quote anyone except CC? He has an agenda.

But there is no merger for 2008.If honda wants to control OW they will have to pay, GF and KK aren't going to give them anything.

As for your opinion about honda and its cars, you can have them, no thanks. I wish they were out of OW, they have caused too much destruction.IMO

[gerkebi]

As for contracts, all contracts have get out clauses. If they don't then CCWSD really were bad business men.

I would foresee a deal like this happening by whatever the legal entity that operates as the IRL entering into an asset purchase agreement for certain assets of Champ Car, including the contracts with whatever races they want to keep. Then the three amigos would put Champ Car into bankruptcy which nullifies all remaining contracts.

[Jacques]

So, instead of 5 CC races, we now only get 4. What happened to Mexico, Cleveland, Portland ? Wasn't CC being kicked out or demoted from Australia, why go there, then ? Now we have to go to Iowa and Kansas :confused:

Half are going to be road races ? So, IRL oval fans will go back to '95 when they only had 11 races to watch, total. That will make Foyt so happy.

This is ridiculous. Like everything TG has done, this was not thought out. And then people wonder why OW is in such bad shape. CC was terribly mismanaged, but to ask TG for help shows how foolish or how easily fooled some people can be.

[bblocker68]

I have no doubt that if you called all the teams from both CC and the IRL, they would all say there needs to be one series.That's no secret. Does RM ever quote anyone except CC? He has an agenda.

But there is no merger for 2008.If honda wants to control OW they will have to pay, GF and KK aren't going to give them anything.

As for your opinion about honda and its cars, you can have them, no thanks. I wish they were out of OW, they have caused too much destruction.IMO

I'm going to hang on to this quote, lol.

I'm a South Bay guy too (Torrance). I'll see ya at Long Becah with a yard of Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout in hand at the Yardhouse :) :) :) :)

[garyshell]

So, instead of 5 CC races, we now only get 4. What happened to Mexico, Cleveland, Portland ? Wasn't CC being kicked out or demoted from Australia, why go there, then ? Now we have to go to Iowa and Kansas :confused:

Half are going to be road races ? So, IRL oval fans will go back to '95 when they only had 11 races to watch, total. That will make Foyt so happy.

This is ridiculous. Like everything TG has done, this was not thought out. And then people wonder why OW is in such bad shape. CC was terribly mismanaged, but to ask TG for help shows how foolish or how easily fooled some people can be.


Look at that list again, how many of the races there are or WERE at one time CCWS or CART venues?

Significantly more than four.

Also to those of you harping on what a pig the Dallara is (and I agree it is a major case of YUCH), just remember it only has one more year left on it and the IRL will be going to a new chassis. No one has said that new chassis could not be the DP01. It gives the Panoz boys a whole year to get the oval package together. Remember they said it was not that the DP01 could NEVER run ovals, just that they had no need to create the package.

One other thing, I and others have been saying for years the racing is about the drivers not the cars. Now is the time for those of us in that camp to eat a bit of our own dog food. I am willing to deal with the pig, if it means I get to see the best racers in US open wheel all racing together again. I want nothing more than to see a grudge match between Tracey and Helio at the 500. Which BTW, I will be happy to call the Indy 500 again instead of the IRL500. <big ol' grin>


Gary

[[WRCRR]]

Could it really be? At last? I have never even made a comment to this area of these boards, because it's just been X vs. Y all the time...but now, maybe FINALLY American open-wheel can start to be something that it was not-so-long ago...

[heelntoe]

I have no doubt that if you called all the teams from both CC and the IRL, they would all say there needs to be one series.That's no secret. Does RM ever quote anyone except CC? He has an agenda.

But there is no merger for 2008.If honda wants to control OW they will have to pay, GF and KK aren't going to give them anything.

As for your opinion about honda and its cars, you can have them, no thanks. I wish they were out of OW, they have caused too much destruction.IMO

Sorry Sanguin, but I have just been informed by an old CCWS friend who's in the middle of all of this that it is most likely that the LLC's around CCWS will be taken bankrupt to avoid contract legal issues (Bachelart is pizzed big time) and this deal is not a merger, but a "unification" as I predicted yesterday before the story broke. There is a possibility that the Atlantics will be spun off to partner with another series and that the KK/GF assets bought outside CCWS will remain with them and they will seek to recover losses by their continued operations. The notion of Honda or TG paying to control OW on any large scale is out the window and the full deal should be out there by Tuesday...I'll write more as I hear it...I haven't spoke to this particular person since I left CCWS, but couldn't hold back calling him given the past 48 hours.

[gerkebi]

Wasn't CC being kicked out or demoted from Australia?

That's the F-1 race, the CC race is in good standing.

[Breeze]

Gotta put my 2 cents in. Not a perfect schedule, not by a long shot. But if this truly comes to pass this year then everything is a mere stopgap measure. 2009 and 2010 are new opportunties to tweak and perfect a great mixed schedule and develope the DP01 for oval racing and new engine package, possibly even the return of the Honda 2.65L turbo!

Dallara, who no doubt has been working on an ICS replacement chassis can still be involved as a manufacturer by putting their own spin on the Champ Car design parameters.

Its a rosy, rosy picture to be sure, but two chassis builders and two engine marques in a combined series by 2010 the latest? And as economical as TG would have it? Almost too good to be true, but it CAN happen.

Only one thing could make it better and that's Dan Gurney jumping back in with a new AAR Eagle!

[SoCalPVguy]

Oh come on. Hmmm...how about a beer in yardhouse? Cartpix, SoCalPVguy, you and I are all SouthBay guys. If you can say hi to Tifosi in fanatics, he's a SouthBay too. I bet he'll bring his bad a$$ guitar epuipment on that weekend. How about that?

First round would be on me, I would enjoy meeting all of you, especially in an environment where long term progress has been made and we would not be toasting CCWS's last year !!!

SC

[sanguin]

Sorry Sanguin, but I have just been informed by an old CCWS friend who's in the middle of all of this that it is most likely that the LLC's around CCWS will be taken bankrupt to avoid contract legal issues (Bachelart is pizzed big time) and this deal is not a merger, but a "unification" as I predicted yesterday before the story broke. There is a possibility that the Atlantics will be spun off to partner with another series and that the KK/GF assets bought outside CCWS will remain with them and they will seek to recover losses by their continued operations. The notion of Honda or TG paying to control OW on any large scale is out the window and the full deal should be out there by Tuesday...I'll write more as I hear it...I haven't spoke to this particular person since I left CCWS, but couldn't hold back calling him given the past 48 hours.

In your opinion, this is not a credible source.

The BK thing is a rumor on the internet. Sorry, I'll save this to serve crow later.

GF and KK are not going to give TG or honda anything for free from what I'm hearing.

[pvtjoker]

First round would be on me, I would enjoy meeting all of you, especially in an environment where long term progress has been made and we would not be toasting CCWS's last year !!!

SC

No kidding. Imagine all us meeting up for a drink and 'talking racing, under a unified series' --good stuff. A few years ago, there probably would have been a few fights or at the very least, a few f-bombs thrown around the table. The prospects of peace is a good thing. If this deal goes through, let me quote our friend Sanguin, "The racing is good. See you in Long Beach". LOL

[McLovin]

DP01=the Future of Racing .....bbbwwwaaaaa
http://www.trackforum.com/forums/images/smileys3/gomer-cap.gif

[garyshell]

In your opinion, this is not a credible source.

The BK thing is a rumor on the internet. Sorry, I'll save this to serve crow later.

GF and KK are not going to give TG or honda anything for free from what I'm hearing.


So WHAT are you hearing and from WHOM are you hearing it? Specifics please. Or is it just more smoke and bluster?

Gary

[garyshell]

DP01=the Future of Racing .....bbbwwwaaaaa
http://www.trackforum.com/forums/images/smileys3/gomer-cap.gif


Why not? Nothing in any of the current "talks" that would preclude that.

Gary

[Nikki Katz]

I had no idea it was actually a possibility to happen this season, but it does seem to be the way.
I feel a bit sorry for the minor teams, wonder if they'll make the switch at this short notice. Especially Conquest, who were going back up to 2 cars this year to keep the car count up, and have evidently spent a lot of money doing so.
It would be great if it was just the one series, I just hope that nobody gets hurt.

Oh, and I hope that it's on Eurosport rather than Sky or I won't be able to watch it. Not feeling overly helpful in that respect and don't know if I can be bothered to buy Race Director (if it still exists).

[Matus]

Some of you actually like a race series Where a car has 3 different drivers during a season and the drivers who were "up and coming" and even winning a few races last year, dissapear and are replaced by "ride-buyers" this year??

[DBell]

Some of you actually like a race series Where a car has 3 different drivers during a season and the drivers who were "up and coming" and even winning a few races last year, dissapear and are replaced by "ride-buyers" this year??

No I perfer a series that allows a driver with no oval experience and not enough talent to race because she's a woman and brings a fat check from a sponsor. (Is Mika back this year?)

Seriously, Both series have teams struggling to get by and there are ride buyers in both series. These arguments of "my series sucks less than your series" are beyond old and pointless.

[gofastandwynn]

No I perfer a series that allows a driver with no oval experience and not enough talent to race because she's a woman and brings a fat check from a sponsor. (Is Mika back this year?)



No, Chavez is supporting Viso with PDVSA backing...

[clydekart]

Fan is short for fanatic. I assume you are race fan as you are on this board.

[OWFan19]

Yes, I got the countdown and then the Ban from Champ Car Fanatics.


I feel bad for some of the fans, they have been more loyal to a series that most have written off. As starter knows, I share a relationship with a few Champ Car guys, whom I have a lot of respect for. The amigos have screwed this up, IMO. They never gave Steve Johnson a full chance to do anything, then they go and do whatever they want. I have been told that no deal is close, but who knows, I am sure that they werent expecting the article last night and have a little CYA to do.

I believe Heelntoe, so far. He hasnt been to wrong in the past. My guess, Atlantics will be a series with that races with Stars of Mazada. But who really knows what is going on. I am waiting to hear more solid news from both sides. Champ Car is talking in circles right now. KK mentions that nothing has been said to either series, but then he says that the media is hampering discussions. I dont know what to believe. I think RM knows more than we give him credit for.

Sanquin, you have always been loyal, no one cant take that away from you.

[sanguin]

I believe Heelntoe, so far. He hasnt been to wrong in the past.

Yes he has, right here on this forum.


But who really knows what is going on. I am waiting to hear more solid news from both sides. Champ Car is talking in circles right now. KK mentions that nothing has been said to either series, but then he says that the media is hampering discussions. I dont know what to believe. I think RM knows more than we give him credit for.

Sanquin, you have always been loyal, no one cant take that away from you.

RM is to blame, this should never have been published. I suspect RM is trying to save the diminished Indy 500.

[OWFan19]

Yes he has, right here on this forum.



RM is to blame, this should never have been published. I suspect RM is trying to save the diminished Indy 500.

Oh really? Why dont you finally tells us your credientals. RM knows a hell of alot more than we do.

[Ranger]

Ok, I'll believe the lot of this now:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65051

Motegi date key to merger talks

By Steven English Friday, February 8th 2008, 18:27 GMT


The Indy Racing League's scheduled date at Motegi on 19 April is the key to the planned merger between the IndyCar Series and the rival Champ Car World Series.

The IRL race in Japan clashes with the Champ Car round at Long Beach, which is one of three events that will be added to the IndyCar calendar if the proposed deal goes ahead.

The Long Beach street race date is not flexible because a contract is in place to close the roads for the event only on that specific weekend, so Motegi would have to be rescheduled.

IRL boss Tony George and series presidents Terry Angstadt and Brian Barnhart will fly to Japan tomorrow to encourage Motegi officials to move the race to another weekend.

George warned against over-optimism until all issues were resolved and a deal was completed.

"Every time we seem to get close [to a successful merger], a new obstacle gets in the way," he told American newspaper the Indianapolis Star.

Champ Car co-owner Kevin Kalkhoven agreed that there will be no progress with the amalgamation until the Motegi date is moved.

"As long as [circuit owner] Honda won't move Motegi, there won't be a merger," he told the Associated Press.

"It's a major hurdle but it's not the only one. There are significant advantages in merging but there are also significant advantages in not doing it. But at the moment there are no discussions until they move Motegi."

Kalkhoven also expressed his disappointment that details of the latest round of merger talks had been leaked to the press. Respected American journalist Robin Miller broke the story on the SpeedTV website last night.

"Once again, as has happened previously in the past four years, somebody has leaked a story to the press, and the press has turned it into a tornado," he told the Indianapolis Star.

"Now it has everyone running around in a circle. It's almost malicious, and it disappoints and infuriates me.

"We were very close to a deal a couple of years ago and everything got leaked. Then instead of the key people working it out, everybody gets involved in the discussion. If people are trying to help unification, silence is the best thing."

Senior IRL officials are currently negotiating with other circuits about adjusting their dates to accommodate Champ Car rounds at Edmonton and Surfers Paradise into the IRL season.

But George admitted that rearranging the schedule less than two months before the opening round would be a major challenge.

"You just can't go changing all the dates around when you have contracts," he told the Indianapolis Star.