Cars or Drivers???

[Eurotech]

I was wondering, is it the cars that become uncompetitive or is it the Drivers?

eg. Would the Integra still be a winning car if Matt neal was driving?
Would the MGZS be a winning car if Anthony Reid was driving?
Would the Honda Civic still win if Tom Chilton was driving?
Would the Astra Coupe still win if James Thompson was driving?????

:confused: Tricky one isn't it :confused:

[VXR-4-Eva]

I was wondering


Really, god don't strain yourself too much, Eurotech

Joking...

[Marc W]

You forgot a couple of big things that effect the competitiveness, Team and Budget.

[SEATFreak]

Really, god don't strain yourself too much, Eurotech

Joking...

Would some have been joking had I said it? Methinks not.

No matter.


You forgot a couple of big things that effect the competitiveness, Team and Budget.

I agree. The best example is the Integra. The Integra must rank among the most widely bought cars by Independents so we can see how lots of other teams have used it. We could use the MG ZS but aside from WSR only Kartworld and Team Atomic Kitten have used it. Eurotech, SibSports, Robertshaw and TH Motorsport have all run it. And it seems whereas Team Eurotech have kept it very competitive for me TH and SibSports have struggled. I am not really suprised by that. Whereas SibSports was probably a tiny team Eurotech have been in the BTCC before. They either made or installed the engines that powered the VLR beemers at the start of the ST era in about 1991 or 1992.

So I reckon the question could be more "would X be succesful in a Y if Y was raced by team A rather than team B?"

[Eurotech]

Really, god don't strain yourself too much, Eurotech

yeah thanks for that, VXR-4-Eva :mad:

but I guess the funding is a major problem but it may sometimes be the car not the driver, for instance, Chris Stockton might be able to move up the pack if he had a better car...

[VkmSpouge]

I think the Integra could still be a winning car with the right team and driver. Last year it should have won a race had Fabrizio Giovanardi not out braked himself and slammed into the back of the race leader, Mike Jordan at Brands Hatch.

[SEATFreak]

yeah thanks for that, VXR-4-Eva :mad:

You never get used to it but take if from me it does get better believe me. :)


but I guess the funding is a major problem but it may sometimes be the car not the driver, for instance, Chris Stockton might be able to move up the pack if he had a better car...

I certainly agree with that.

For me the ZS must rank among the worst cars to have run in the BTCC in terms of it's strong period(s). Either side of 2004 I find very few season where it ran truly competitive. Competitive enough to seriously trouble the main front running teams. When I think of the impact it made as a factory car to me it really comes as no surprise to me it struggles with teams the size of Kartworld and TAK.

[Rollo]

So I reckon the question could be more "would X be succesful in a Y if Y was raced by team A rather than team B?"

We have the answer to this!

In 2004 VX Racing had the Astra which was a two-door coupe whilst Team Dynamics ran a stubby hatchback in the Civic. What did Team Dynamics do? Got their own "Astra Coupe" in the Integra whilst VX Racing ran a stubby hatcback with their Astra Sporthatch.

We saw the direct fortunes swing across in one season, and although there were many factors which caused this, I think that the deciding 1% was the basic layout of the vehicles. Just a small difference when everything is as finely match as that, was enough in my unpaid but well-thought out opinion.

[SEATFreak]

We have the answer to this!

In 2004 VX Racing had the Astra which was a two-door coupe whilst Team Dynamics ran a stubby hatchback in the Civic. What did Team Dynamics do? Got their own "Astra Coupe" in the Integra whilst VX Racing ran a stubby hatcback with their Astra Sporthatch.

We saw the direct fortunes swing across in one season, and although there were many factors which caused this, I think that the deciding 1% was the basic layout of the vehicles. Just a small difference when everything is as finely match as that, was enough in my unpaid but well-thought out opinion.

Although in my theory X is a driver and not a car (which in my theory is Y); so in essence my theory questioned the competence of a driver in a car if the car was with one team and not the other I never thought about it like that. I whole heartedly agree.

Shape is another thing.

Look at the Toledo and Leon. Speaking for myself I think what let the Toledo down is it wasn't given what was awarded to the Leon. Time. Development and track time. I fully believe in my heart that it isn't in the reams of fantasy that the Toledo could concievably become a strong rival to the Vectra.

The Leon is very good but I think the Toledo could have become very bit as good because I think it would not have suffered from the same issues the Leon does as a net result of its shape.

[mattie007]

Seeing as its won races in every season it has taken part, excluding last year, I'd say the ZS has been quite successful. If it had been fitted with the Judd 4-pot from the start instead of the heavy and unreliable (albeit lovely sounding) V6 then it could well of been a different story in 02 and 03. Then again it did win the indy championship in 04.
If Paul Luti does get hold of one next year then it could well be a top 6 car.
The Integra is certainly capable of still winning though and could well have its final chance next season.
The Astra Coupe and Sporthatch aren't capable though as they are well past there best.

[VkmSpouge]

In 2004 VX Racing had the Astra which was a two-door coupe whilst Team Dynamics ran a stubby hatchback in the Civic. What did Team Dynamics do? Got their own "Astra Coupe" in the Integra whilst VX Racing ran a stubby hatcback with their Astra Sporthatch.

Good point there. Of course Team Dynamics ran a Vauxhall Astra coupe in 2003 for half a year with Gareth Howell driving it.