Merger Talks -- SuperLeague ChampCar [Archive]

bblocker68

28th January 2008, 17:39

Why would CC merge with a league that follows football (soccer) teams? Is the entire series going to move out of America? This doesn't make allot of sense to me, personally, unless CC will truely establish itself as a completely international series.

Here's their hompage with some pics of the cars.
http://superleagueformula.net/sf-en/

seppefan

28th January 2008, 17:41

I think you will find this is just the DP01 finding a new home if CC folds into the IRL. No merger with the new superleague just the CC cars being sold off second hand. All total rumour as if CC has a 08 season which it will then the cars are not available.

28th January 2008, 17:49

Having anything to do with Superleague would be the final nail in the coffin.

ChampCar may be on medication but it's not that bad, surely?

bblocker68

28th January 2008, 18:01

This will probably go the same way the hot rumors about CC turning into the Premiere1 series went.

You guys remember that "no story"?

PSfan

28th January 2008, 18:04

Surprise surprise. I bet very few saw this coming.
This is a merger that makes too much sense and keeps TG where he belongs, on the fringes.
Anyone know the difference between the DP01 and DP09 chassis?

um, any links?

I can't see a merge working, but a strategic partnership, depending on each others schedules could... Look at A1gp? aren't most of the teams run of of the same garages that run GP2 teams? Couldn't some of the champcar people handle the short (think its 6 races) superlegue schedule in addition to their champcar commitments?

bblocker68

28th January 2008, 18:08

Additional commitments would be a bad idea at this time, me thinks. CC is having huge problems dealing with their own commitments right now.

Dr. Krogshöj

28th January 2008, 18:52

If Champ Car merges with this gimmickry, I'll leave even faster than if they had accepted TG's offers.

weeflyonthewall

28th January 2008, 19:30

This will probably go the same way the hot rumors about CC turning into the Premiere1 series went.

You guys remember that "no story"?

It seems Premier1 had the right idea and Super League has the backing to make it happen. Given the global appeal of some of the teams already committed, maybe some of CC's events and resources will fit quite nicely with their agenda.

pvtjoker

28th January 2008, 21:23

I'll start following this series when they get an 'LA Galaxy' car. LOL

Scott Dryden

28th January 2008, 22:20

I can see some logic behind such a move. Unlike Premier 1, SuperLeague seems to have some good people behind it. Replace the Menard with a turbo Cossie, and you'd have some decent equipment.

Incidentally, Sevilla were announced by SuperLeague today - a club just down the road from Jerez. Securing the services of Alvaro Barba would be a good move. He's quick, and local to the area too.

PSfan

28th January 2008, 23:14

Additional commitments would be a bad idea at this time, me thinks. CC is having huge problems dealing with their own commitments right now.

I was mearly suggesting that if possible champ car team's, engineers, pit crew, drivers could suppliment their income by doing the Super League schedule, who better to help set up a dp09 (or whatever its called) then people who have almost 2 full seasons with the dp01.

I can also see benefits to them sharing the costs of developing those DP's, also some cross promotions and such... Comparing schedules, Champcar will be in the Netherlands one week before the Super League has their Germany race... hmmmm

ShiftingGears

28th January 2008, 23:18

SuperLeague is a complete and utter mistake.

PSfan

28th January 2008, 23:28

SuperLeague is a complete and utter mistake.

You know I believe in those t-shirts that say "Any bad day ***** is still better then a good day at work" with ***** being a variable (fishing, skiing, racing etc etc...)

I'll judge the product when I see it. And thanks to digital cable/sat there is as good of a chance to watch it thanks to the all soccer/football network Goal TV, which wouldn't suprise me one bit if they show these races.

And remember, A1GP had a similar welcoming, and its doing... reasonable... And should start doing a whole lot better when they start racing Ferraris

ShiftingGears

28th January 2008, 23:32

You know I believe in those t-shirts that say "Any bad day ***** is still better then a good day at work" with ***** being a variable (fishing, skiing, racing etc etc...)

I'll judge the product when I see it. And thanks to digital cable/sat there is as good of a chance to watch it thanks to the all soccer/football network Goal TV, which wouldn't suprise me one bit if they show these races.

And remember, A1GP had a similar welcoming, and its doing... reasonable... And should start doing a whole lot better when they start racing Ferraris

The Ferrari idea for A1GP is a mistake, they can't pass each other! They'll surely wreck what they have now...

Theres no point in having a motorsport that concerns itself with soccer. Because soccer fans obviously want to watch soccer, not motorsport. It'll just be another pointless two-bit series.

weeflyonthewall

28th January 2008, 23:35

SuperLeague is a complete and utter mistake.

Another means of selling more merchandise and increasing viewership of the games? Mega teams have mega sponsors. Expanding their sports business portfolio to include running a race team is peanuts compared to what they are spending with the soccer teams. There is a very interesting leverage angle here.

ShiftingGears

28th January 2008, 23:47

Scott Dryden

28th January 2008, 23:52

Another means of selling more merchandise and increasing viewership of the games? Mega teams have mega sponsors. Expanding their sports business portfolio to include running a race team is peanuts compared to what they are spending with the soccer teams. There is a very interesting leverage angle here.
It's also worth mentioning that football clubs like AC Milan, Porto, Galatasaray, Olympiacos, etc. are household names in most countries throughout the world. This means that attracting sponsorship/media coverage is made infinitely more easy than if you are talking about Forsythe, PKV and Rocketsports.

Sandfly

29th January 2008, 01:55

What now, Merge with a series that has not even run a race??

You guys are really pushing it.

No merger with the IRL
No merger with superleague .

PSfan

29th January 2008, 01:59

Still a waste of money.
Soccer fans will watch soccer, and motorsport fans will watch motorsport.

I'd agree with you IF it was soccer players running the race track kicking a ball...

But its a racing series, and until they run a race and I either can't watch it, or it ends up being boring, I won't be passing any judgement on it.

But at the same time, I can get a little excited about the probably unlikely, but interesting notion of maybe having a few Champcar teams show up at Nürburgring, and maybe have a little un-official race what you brung with a few super league cars, or better yet, a impromptu test session with another bonus prize for beating the track record...

Dr. Krogshöj

29th January 2008, 07:09

I'd agree with you IF it was soccer players running the race track kicking a ball...

But its a racing series, and until they run a race and I either can't watch it, or it ends up being boring, I won't be passing any judgement on it.

I think it's the concept that stinks. Racing will also be about the man (or woman) behind the wheel. It is a competition of drivers, not soccer teams (or nations by the way).

millencolin

29th January 2008, 09:00

seppefan

29th January 2008, 11:22

Their is NO merger. This was superleague trying to get its cars cheap if CC merged with the IRL and used the crap wagons not the DP01.

Secong hand car sales. Not merger.

mike15

29th January 2008, 13:32

Surprise surprise. I bet very few saw this coming.
This is a merger that makes too much sense and keeps TG where he belongs, on the fringes.
Anyone know the difference between the DP01 and DP09 chassis?

This could be an interesting opportunity for Champ Car if the Cosworth V12 could be approved along with the DP01.

This opens up Europe for Champ Car and North America for the SuperLeague.
It could be a win win for both series.

electron

29th January 2008, 13:37

cough... ahm, as someone else asked in page 1:

A N Y link or proof to this stuff????

EDIT: That we tend to belief it spot-on tells more about the state of the series than anything else i suppose....

Pat Wiatrowski

29th January 2008, 16:01

It's also worth mentioning that football clubs like AC Milan, Porto, Galatasaray, Olympiacos, etc. are household names in most countries throughout the world. This means that attracting sponsorship/media coverage is made infinitely more easy than if you are talking about Forsythe, PKV and Rocketsports.

Maybe someplace. Certainly NOT here in the USA.

bblocker68

29th January 2008, 17:22

Sorry guys, I can't help but be skeptical about this.

If the Super Teams will be bankrolling this, it just hollers back to the projected success the WNBA would have since they were backed by the NBA. I dont think they've had much if any success at all.

Any way we could get CC to be backed by the NFL ???? :) I would love to see a Pittsburgh Steelers car!!

bblocker68

29th January 2008, 17:24

This could be an interesting opportunity for Champ Car if the Cosworth V12 could be approved along with the DP01.

This opens up Europe for Champ Car and North America for the SuperLeague.
It could be a win win for both series.

Cosworth V12??

seppefan

29th January 2008, 17:46

Superleague may buy Champ Cars There is a rumor going around that if Champ Car were to take up Tony George's offer (Tony says it's too late, the offer is no longer on the table) to switch to the IRL the new Superleague, which has not had all its cars built yet, have made an offer to buy all the Champ Cars and convert them to their normally aspirated F1-sounding V10 engines.

The has never been a merger rumour. Just selling the cars if cc goes.rumour.

mike15

29th January 2008, 18:15

Cosworth V12??
Oops my error

In 2006 two Formula One teams were supplied with Cosworth engines: the Williams team using Cosworth V8 engines, transmissions and associated electronics, and the Scuderia Toro Rosso team using rev-limited Cosworth V10s based on 2005 spec engines.

Scott Dryden

29th January 2008, 18:19

merge with this gimmick of a league? hell no!!!!

This series is an absolute joke... think of any competition where two sports are combined, they always fail (remember xfl?)

Even if my beloved Tottenham Hotspurs were in this league i still would not follow it
I agree with you in that there won't be much opportunity to to cross market motorsport to football supporters, and vice-versa. Fans of Barcelona's basketball team don't follow the side because they're regulars at the Camp Nou. Their interest stems mostly from being Catalan and liking basketball.

As has been said - with the exception of Ferrari in Formula 1 - fans tend to follow drivers, not teams. Therefore, this aspect of the series will not be advantageous.

Having football clubs attached to a motorsport series could potentially be a massive benefit in terms of attracting media coverage and sponsorship. These are household names in South America, Europe and Asia. Football is also the number one sport in Mexico, by a long way. Companies from these regions could be brought into the fold, as well as American businesses with a presence in the aforementioned markets.

According to Deloitte, the revenue for the world's top 20 football clubs is around $5bn per year. As weeflyonthewall has mentioned, a reasonably large percentage of this comes from merchandising. Football clubs are light years ahead of any other sport in this area and already have the required sales mechanisms in place (shops, TV channels, marketing campaigns, etc.). If a motorsport series could tap into this, and generate just a fraction of the revenue football clubs enjoy from merchandise sales, they'd be onto a winner.

It's true that motorsport fans won't buy a replica Milan shirt to support a team, but they might buy one to support their favourite driver Giorgio Pantano.

Nikki Katz

29th January 2008, 19:07

I had no idea this series even still existed, I always assumed that Premier1 (or whatever it's called now) discussions stopped after A1GP was announced and actually seemed to have people that wanted to participate in it. And that was about 3 years ago.
I don't think there's a market for Premier1, for ChampCar this would just be throwing good money after bad. It's IRL or nothing.

Anubis

30th January 2008, 00:22

Can't see the SuperLeague series having any success to be honest, as I can't see how the merchandise argument works. Surely fans of a club will buy the merchandise anyway? A racing car decked out in club colours isn't going to make someone rush out and buy merchandise from a club they don't support. I think the interesting thing about this series is who ISN'T in it, rather than who is. Which club has the greatest marketing power of any football club worldwide? Where's their car? If this was such a surefire way of pushing merchandise, they'd be there like a shot.

I just don't see the two markets having that much overlap.

Scott Dryden

30th January 2008, 01:59

A racing car decked out in club colours isn't going to make someone rush out and buy merchandise from a club they don't support.
Why not? Motorsport fans already spend money on merchandise supporting their favourite driver/team. But these products don't carry the same kind of margins and aren't marketed nearly as well as football merchandise.

So, with Superleague, instead of buying a shirt with the name of a car manufacturer on (or a tobacco company a few years ago), fans will buy a football shirt, as that is who their favourite driver/team is associated with. These could be sold, for example, complete with the drivers' name and number (just as is the case with football players).

Which club has the greatest marketing power of any football club worldwide? Where's their car? If this was such a surefire way of pushing merchandise, they'd be there like a shot.
Actually, in the last full Deloitte rankings published, AC Milan were only one place behind Manchester United, with yearly revenues only €3.9m lower. I'd say they're a pretty exceptional coup for the inaugural season.

If I was bringing a new product to the consumer market, I'd quite like it to be carried in every Wal-Mart store in the US from launch. Not going to happen, but if successful with smaller retailers, Wall-Mart would want to role the product out through their own outlets. In the same way, if Superleague is a success, then the Real Madrids of this world will want a piece of the pie.

Mark in Oshawa

30th January 2008, 02:56

I don't know if a merger with the IRL would be the end of the world if the alternative is dying altogether. I do know that joining this joke in Europe with Soccer team involvement makes little sense to me, and as the Squirrel has pointed out, soccer fans watch soccer and racing fans watch racing. Cross pollination of the two sports should be very hidden and casual, and informal. Look no further than the owner of Liverpool and the Montreal Canadiens, George Gillett buying into Evernham Motorsports in NASCAR. It will work because he isn't using his soccer fan base or his hockey fan base as a basis for the effort to get attention. He is doing it for business reasons, and maybe some personal ones. Ditto with the ownership of the Boston Red Sox buying into Jack Roush's operation. For a whole league of racing to be based on soccer is just a wacky waste of everyone's time....and KK and GF will go for it if they can find a way to get some of their lost millions back before the whole deal goes toes up....

call_me_andrew

30th January 2008, 03:59

As has been said - with the exception of Ferrari in Formula 1 - fans tend to follow drivers, not teams. Therefore, this aspect of the series will not be advantageous.

I don't think that's always the case. The other day I was watching a V8 Supercar race and I saw most of the fans were showing support for the brands Ford and Holden. I think there's still room in this world for brand loyalty.

I like A1GP. I'd rather have go-karts at the Olympics, but I'll settle for this.

Let us not forget TRAC. TRAC wanted to use a city vs. city approach to racing. They had the cars, they had a good TV contract, but no one wanted to buy the franchises.

millencolin

30th January 2008, 07:22

I don't think that's always the case. The other day I was watching a V8 Supercar race and I saw most of the fans were showing support for the brands Ford and Holden. I think there's still room in this world for brand loyalty.

thats a td different. The bogans that follow v8supercars :p : don't follow teams, thy support whoever isdriving for their manufacturer. They dont give a crap what team is winning, as long as Ford/Holen wins...

weeflyonthewall

30th January 2008, 17:30

The engine factories used to provide it, tire rivalry helped, that's where a spec series falls short. Bringing in established rivalry and support maybe the only answer.

mike15

21st February 2008, 01:10

The American version

Using the Europen concept to form a new series link it to the National Football League. Even with one car per team that's 32 cars and 32 races.

The track would be a facility closest to the team city or a street race and of course the car colors would be the team colors.

roger dodger

21st February 2008, 02:56

Surprise surprise. I bet very few saw this coming.
This is a merger that makes too much sense and keeps TG where he belongs, on the fringes.
Anyone know the difference between the DP01 and DP09 chassis?

No one in America, and friend, that's what counts right now, is going to care about any international league. It will get very little play here in America. Why does NASCAR do so well?

mike15

21st February 2008, 03:30

No one in America, and friend, that's what counts right now, is going to care about any international league. It will get very little play here in America. Why does NASCAR do so well?
However if you link it with the American version of European football called the NFL as I suggested above you might have a great opportunity to revive AOWR.

TOgoFASTER

21st February 2008, 03:58

Ugg

ShiftingGears

21st February 2008, 06:26

However if you link it with the American version of European football called the NFL as I suggested above you might have a great opportunity to revive AOWR.

Football is not motorsport!

Motorsport is not football!

People will see through stupid ideas like this!

mike15

21st February 2008, 13:37

Football is not motorsport!

Motorsport is not football!

People will see through stupid ideas like this!
Interesting.
Speaking of stupid ideas.
THE IRL.

21st February 2008, 13:46

Interesting.
Speaking of stupid ideas.
THE IRL.

While your at it, add to that the notion that a new car would make ChampCar irresistible.

History now shows that was a total fallacy which only a few fanatics bought into.

mike15

21st February 2008, 15:41

While your at it, add to that the notion that a new car would make ChampCar irresistible.

History now shows that was a total fallacy which only a few fanatics bought into.

Another half baked notion.

However a new warning label for a combined series based on the IRL specifications, may be warranted something like,

WARNING TO FANS.
Take hardhats to the races and sit as high as possible for your own protection.