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View Full Version : Budget caps confirmed by FIA for 2009



Ranger
17th January 2008, 23:22
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64743


A budget cap is to be introduced in Formula One from the start of 2009, FIA president Max Mosley has confirmed.

In a letter sent this week to all 11 team bosses, Mosley outlines that plans for a budget cap are to now be put in motion after the idea received widespread support in a meeting in Paris last week.

Mosley outlines details of the budget cap plans in the letter, a copy of which has been seen by autosport.com, and confirms that areas falling outside the budget cap are engine costs, marketing and promotion, plus team principals' wages.

"Starting in 2009, there will be a cap on expenditure for all Formula One costs other than engines (as to which, see above), drivers and expenditure exclusively for promotion and marketing," wrote Mosley in the letter.

"Because of the variety of arrangements, particularly shareholdings, team principals' remuneration will not be included in the cap."

A meeting between FIA technical advisor Tony Purnell and financial representatives of the teams will be held in Paris on January 31, after which the FIA hopes to set the budget cap figure for 2009, and possible 2010 and 2011 as well.

A Financial Working Group is also to be set up to try and finalise regulations before June 2008. Should sufficient progress about the move not be made by that date, then Mosley warns that more radical cost-cutting measures, like wind tunnel bans, will be introduced instead.

"If the Financial Working Group are unable to devise a satisfactory method of checking expenditure or if a majority of the competing teams do not agree the proposals by 30 June 2008, the cost reduction measures voted by the World Motor Sport Council on 7 December 2007 will be adopted for 2009 in their entirety," added Mosley.

The idea of budget caps has received widespread support among team bosses, who are keen to bring down costs in the sport.

BMW motorsport director Mario Theissen said at the launch of his team's new car earlier this week: "Cost reduction certainly is desirable, we support that and have always supported that, and the idea of a budget cap I think it looks at a first glance quite attractive.

"We should at least spend some time on evaluating how it could work - what would be the cap, what would be included and how to police it. I would certainly prefer a budget cap over a limitation in specific areas."

The Mosley letter also outlines plans for future engine regulations, with the teams having agreed on a five-year engine freeze from 2008 to 2012.

No work on the current 2.4-litre V8 engines will be allowed in that period, although work on what power-unit will replace it from 2013 will begin within the next 12 months.

The FIA, along with the manufacturers currently involved in F1, hope to agree on objectives for the new engines by January 1, 2009, with detailed regulations for the lost-cost, environmentally friendly power units published on June 30, 2010.

No work on the new engines will be allowed before that date, and a budget cap for developing it will also be set. Further limits will be set on an engine manufacturers' costs for a season and the amount they can charge for customer power-units.

ShiftingGears
17th January 2008, 23:31
I can imagine this with a lot of loopholes. Red Bull and Honda are going to benefit from this.

wmcot
18th January 2008, 08:03
It's a decent idea, but I'm glad I'm not the one who has to police it! That would be a nightmare. We can't trust the honor system any longer.

jens
19th January 2008, 18:24
Well, for who is such rule good for? Teams like Williams and Force India, who at the moment due to financial reasons can't fight for top positions, but then it would be easier? No surprise that Fisichella has signed a 2-year-deal with FI. :p : Red Bull and Honda are interesting guesses due to two teams and "double budgets".

Toyota is in danger of falling into last position?! :crazy:

Osella
19th January 2008, 19:34
Will they ask Ferrari/McLaren what their budget is and base it on that, or will they ask Super Aguri and base it on that.

It can be used to control costs, but unless the overall budgets are reduced, it will only have the effect of allowing a team (for example, Toyota) to spend their way above some teams potentially, up to the maximum ceiling. If it is set at a lower level, then I think that Toyota would be at the bottom of the pile as they are the most inefficient team in terms of results:money spent. But it would help Force India and Toro Rosso to gain if the budget cap were within their reach.

Otherwise it's a bit of a pointless exercise!..

TMorel
19th January 2008, 22:49
What other branches of motorsport could the technology be used in?
Would there be any mileage in running a Le Mans type car to try out gearbox parts, even if it's not going to be competitive, are there any developments they could be doing in other Formulas?
I'd imagine if there was even a hint that they could get some advantage then you'll get the teams pouring money into those sports just to try and gain some test miles that they could use in F1
Just because the teams could cut costs doesn't mean they will.

tinchote
20th January 2008, 02:24
I will be eagerly waiting for some explanation as to how they expect to police team expenditure :s

markabilly
20th January 2008, 02:41
:mad: Easy solution--outsource everything to china or india or mexico, theose euro dollars will go much further... :down:

fact i know some people who have seen their jobs moved there ...of course the folks are still here, still trying to find where those jobs went...

maxu05
20th January 2008, 06:25
I can see the budget statements now. Honda- Development cost $10 million, promotion and marketing $800 million :laugh: I can't see how they could possibly police this rule. It's like the testing ban, how can you police it if Ferarri has it's own private test track ? (I am a Ferarri fan by the way, before I get whacked by the angry mob). A team could claim they spent most of the money on the engine, but in fact be channeling the money into other areas. Oh well, that's F1.

Azumanga Davo
20th January 2008, 11:22
And who is to say how a team should use his windtunnel?

It's stupid ideas like this that fuel our desire to... um, put fuel on Mosley and light up...

Nikki Katz
20th January 2008, 11:36
I actually like this idea. I think that with customer chassis abandoned it won't be long before teams start falling off the back of the grid again.
I'm a little concerned that this won't be enough though. Perhaps this is actually aimed more at underperforming big teams leaving than the little ones, who presumably don't spend anywhere near the cap anyway.

I have no idea how this will be policed and I'm sure that some (or all) of the big-budget teams will get around it somehow.

Sleeper
20th January 2008, 13:46
It will be damn difficult to police without having the teams under a constant audit, and telling them something cant be used if they havent seen how its been paid for exactly. It will be interesting to see how the likes of McLaren, Ferrari, Honda, Tyota etc do on a budget only a third or even a quarter of what they've got now. Personally though, I see it as being considerably better than what we have now, which is F1 being slowly forced into a spec formula in an attempt to controle costs. Its drastic, but I'll reserve final judgment until we have seen exactly how its going to work.

markabilly
21st January 2008, 01:12
would that include entainment expenses for sponsors....and fia fees for superlicnses.....and fines...and advertizemnt expenses...and driver perks and pay......

Hawkmoon
21st January 2008, 02:09
Mosley outlines details of the budget cap plans in the letter, a copy of which has been seen by autosport.com, and confirms that areas falling outside the budget cap are engine costs, marketing and promotion, plus team principals' wages.

Nice to see that team principals wages fall outside the cap. We wouldn't want Ron or Sir Frank to have to go without, now would we.

This is impossible to enforce. Are the FIA going to have someone watching all the teams to see what they spend their money on? How the hell are they going to know if the prototype sports car pounding around Fiorano has parts destined for the F2008? They aren't.

Nice idea. Might work too. In Fantasy Land, that is.

call_me_andrew
21st January 2008, 06:13
It's like the testing ban, how can you police it if Ferarri has it's own private test track ?

I assume the FIA will keep control of the common PCM.


I have no idea how this will be policed and I'm sure that some (or all) of the big-budget teams will get around it somehow.

And so the $50 million petty cash drawer was born.

Mark
21st January 2008, 10:04
Pretty much impossible to enforce, just look at the fuss with MP's financial arrangements right now!

Banning wind tunnels sounds good on the face of it, until you realise that teams would just employ super expensive CFD systems instead, meaning lesser teams would find it even harder to catch up.

Perhaps a subsidised buy time in a wind tunnel scheme should be set up for those who struggle? But do any teams lack a wind tunnel these days?

markabilly
21st January 2008, 13:09
simple cost cutting method and far more effective:
Ban all wing devices, except for certain standard devices to be provided to all
No trade secrets
no wind tunnels

right after each race, anyone can buy one car (buyer's choice) that is entered in the race from one team, as is, for 1,000,000. If more than one wants a particular car, then a lottery is held. Team gets to keep remaining cars for next 4 races before the team must make available a car.

Car bought can be enterred in any race, just a standard entry fee paid by all.....

No salaries for drivers. They are paid from a pot fund that is made for each race based solely on finishing position. No superlicense fees.
That car may be enterred in the next race by any team showing up.....

Fun AND FAN INTEREST factor: greater than can be imagined
probability of any of this happenning: less than zero

cosmicpanda
21st January 2008, 13:48
simple cost cutting method and far more effective:
Ban all wing devices, except for certain standard devices to be provided to all
No trade secrets


Problems already.

First, what is a wing? How can you say, for example, that the driver's helmet isn't a wing or a moveable aerodynamic device? Or that a sidepod isn't a wing but a spoiler is? What about suspension links?

Also, how can you ban secrets? If someone's keeping a secret, how do you know about it?

Mark
21st January 2008, 13:54
If you really wanted to cut costs you'd issue everyone with standard cars with standard engines, but I don't think anyone really wants to see that.

21st January 2008, 15:13
If you really wanted to cut costs you'd issue everyone with standard cars with standard engines, but I don't think anyone really wants to see that.

Karl Marx?

wmcot
21st January 2008, 20:24
Also, how can you ban secrets? If someone's keeping a secret, how do you know about it?

Monitor Nigel Stepney's and Mike Coughlan's text messages!!! ;)

jso1985
21st January 2008, 23:18
This won't help F1 at all, IMo it's impossible to police how much a team spends, and worse prepare for big scandals about a certain team claiming the other team is spending more than allowed...

Big Ben
22nd January 2008, 10:43
Since rules are always so clear in F1 and their enforcement so fair I'm looking forward to seeing this. With all the new regulation I bet most of the sanctions will still be based on the "bringing the sport into disrepute" rule.

markabilly
22nd January 2008, 13:11
Karl Marx?
Not a fan and unlikely to be seeing any sports anytime soon...

woody2goody
22nd January 2008, 14:45
I also bet the so-called 'policing' would be much stricter for McLaren and Renault than for a certain Italian team with a red car :)

Even though they hav their own track which the FIA will probably claim doesn't exist ;)