Stohl, biggest under achiever of 2007 ?

[A.F.F.]

Don't worry, I'm not going to start a new thread about every driver out there. This'll be the last.

Just a quick poll if you will folks. Who here think that Stohl would have done a helluva much better year with 307 than with Xsara ???

And what the hell went wrong with it ?? Xsara obvioulsy doesn't suit him anywhere near as good as 307. After last season he told public that 307 was the best car he has ever driven. Was that only a propaganda? Is it a set-up problem ?? Has he gotten downgraded car like our norwegian fans like to think ? ;) A rotten apple.??

One think is clear. Stohl has been a shadow of what he used to be last year. Not only speedwise but also consistentwise. Therefore i think he has been the biggest under achiever of the year :mark:

[Josti]

Have to agree. Obviously last year went much better with the 307, infact he did an amazing year. Shame they didn't continue the Peugeot project, though I think Stohl himself didn't expect this outcome also at the beginning of the season. He complaint much about the car's setup and the fact that the car was worse than the one he drove in 2005. But I think it's also the pressure, which became bigger troughout the season, let alone OMV's withdrew for next year what probably didn't helped him either.

I do hope to see him competing next year. He can still be a good buffer for the works drivers, like he was in 2006. But I have my doubts for his future in WRC.

[Brother John]

One think is clear. Stohl has been a shadow of what he used to be last year. Not only speedwise but also consistentwise. Therefore i think he has been the biggest under achiever of the year :mark:

When was he out of the shadow? :rolleyes: I never saw that! :(

[Mihai]

It's difficult to find the right pace when the car is crappy. I wouldn't blame Stohl that much. He's obviously not the fastest guy out there, but he's definitely above his 07 results. We may never know his potential because with OMV retiring from all rally events, I think his WRC career is nearly over.

[sal]

Must be car related this year. Look at what he acheived with the Xsara in 05.

[JAM]

Must be car related this year. Look at what he acheived with the Xsara in 05.

... and look at Daniel Carlsson made with thta car this year. François Duval is an exception, but i never believed that the car and the material were the same used by Stohl :rolleyes:

[sal]

I meant consistently Jam not a one off...regardless of number of events started.

[AlfaWRC]

I think the truth is between last year and the actual season.
He is not as good as the final standings last year showed, but he is better than his results of this year.

[Tomi]

yes and about Henning you can say the same, his driving has been crap this year too.

[A.F.F.]

yes and about Henning you can say the same, his driving has been crap this year too.

Comparing to 307, yes.

Funny, the car Marcus was so fed up, was actually better than Citroen Xsara and Ford FOcus -06 :D

[Woodeye]

This shuurrrrely hasn't been the best yearrr forrr Manfrred. :)

But for me the biggest underachiever is still Matt Wilslow. No signs of improvement there.

[bt52b]

Surely the Munchi's cars are worse?

[Gard]

Comparing to 307, yes.

Funny, the car Marcus was so fed up, was actually better than Citroen Xsara and Ford FOcus -06 :D

:rolleyes:
last year he was 8'th, with 1 podium, got 25 points and beaten by his teammate. So far this year he's 6'th, has 2 podiums, has 34 points, beating his teammate and is the best of the non factory drivers. How can that be worse than last year?

[Timole]

Last year it was really great to see how the results improved for Manfred and Ilka, this year it´s the opposite. I think it´s the case of the car and setup. The confindence has also gone down cause of that. They just can´t be as fast with the xsara as they were last year with the 307.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Shame to see someone like Stohl do so poorly this year :( I spoke with Ilka not long ago but she said she doesn't know whats going on if they will continue in the WRC next year. Nothing about the IRC too :(

[A.F.F.]

:rolleyes:
last year he was 8'th, with 1 podium, got 25 points and beaten by his teammate. So far this year he's 6'th, has 2 podiums, has 34 points, beating his teammate and is the best of the non factory drivers. How can that be worse than last year?

Now that you put it in resultwise, you're right. But somehow I think that with 307 he drove those results and with Focus he got to results. So...

[Wim_Impreza]

Stohl had last year an excellent year. He had never good material this season and I think he had never a testday between the rallies. He must drive over the limit to clock times in the top 10. See his accidents this season, that's not normal. The last years, Stohl was very consistent and made only very little mistakes.

Marc van Dalen from Kronos is the fault, he gave Duval a very good prepared car for Germany, some testdays, support... van Dalen blame Stohl, but the Xsara had much technical problems this year and it is simply to old to achieve a good result in WRC now.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Stohl, biggest under achiever of 2007 ? Pons id say...

[Maui J.]

Yup, a very below average year for Manfred.
I believe he has the talent to be a top six contender, he has the skill and speed there, but it hasn't really been evident this 2007.

Was Citroen scared he may take points off Sordo, so gave Kronos an underdeveloped car? It could look bad if Manfred, in an older car, placed better than Dani. Not good for the marketing department when they are pushing the C4, and it gets beaten by the Xsara.

When Manfred was in the 307 in 2006, there was no official Peugeot team to compete against.

Think about it, remember the whole WRC is about selling cars.

As far as Pons goes... well he did pick the wrong car to start with. This was a handicap from the word go. I'm sure the results would have been better with a Focus.

[JAM]

Was Citroen scared he may take points off Sordo, so gave Kronos an underdeveloped car? It could look bad if Manfred, in an older car, placed better than Dani. Not good for the marketing department when they are pushing the C4, and it gets beaten by the Xsara.


You're right. I already wrote thta some months ago but some people didin't believe it. The only Xsara that was at good level was the one used by François Duval because Citroen needed a fast driver to catch the Ford's. The other drivers must have old spec Xsaras, Even Marc Van Dalen said that before summer! That's the mais reason why Stohl is so slow.

Daniel Carlsson made 4 rallyes with this car and the results weren't good. So, the problem is really on the car.

Other bad years? Maybe Hnneing Solberg with a bad year but the problem is mainly a question of skills.

I don't consider Matthew Wilson as having a bad year. He has the year according to his skills wich are very low. I'm saying this since 2006.

[Brother John]

Always everyone continues talk about the bad season of Duval 2006.
Stohl, Pons and Atkinson have destroyed as many cars this year.
Citroën needed Duval to take points away from Ford, why they did not invest in Stohl? :rolleyes:

[COD]

There are so many different spec Xsaras without visible differences. Kronos most probably didn't get the spec they expected. It is the same as if t Sobart would have been given -04 Focuses instead of -06 ones

[JAM]

Citroën needed Duval to take points away from Ford, why they did not invest in Stohl? :rolleyes:

Because, besides all the considerations made, Duval is faster than Stohl.

This question still mantains without answer? Why Citroen didn't gave a Xsara to Kronos with latest specs during all the season?

[Langdale Forest]

Stohl has not done well this year. The Xsara is an old car and other cars are faster now.

Pons has also not done well this year

[Langdale Forest]

There are so many different spec Xsaras without visible differences. Kronos most probably didn't get the spec they expected.

What spec are they using this year and what spec were OMV using in 2005?

[Xsara Fan]

What spec are they using this year and what spec were OMV using in 2005?

In 2005 Manfred using 'active' Xsara WRC, this year he using 'passive' Xsara 2006 (Loeb`s 2006 champion car).

I think there are 2 problems in Kronos now:
1. 'Active/passive' thing.
2. No testing at all during this year...

Martin Holmes wrote after Portugal: "Stohl needed a systematic change in the differential set-up in order to get a better feeling of the car".

[A.F.F.]

Martin Holmes wrote after Portugal: "Stohl needed a systematic change in the differential set-up in order to get a better feeling of the car".


Or both.

[Tomi]

2. No testing at all during this year...

This is something i dont understand, why dont the second teams let their drivers test, the situation is the same for Latvala and Henning too.

[Xsara Fan]

This is something i dont understand, why dont the second teams let their drivers test, the situation is the same for Latvala and Henning too.

Money....

[Maui J.]

The only Xsara that was at good level was the one used by François Duval because Citroen needed a fast driver to catch the Ford's. The other drivers must have old spec Xsaras, Even Marc Van Dalen said that before summer! That's the main reason why Stohl is so slow.


Exactly JAM, I tried to edit my post to mention this as well, but I was too slow before the 15 minutes edit time was up.

Citroen's emphasis changed when they needed points from Marcus and Ford, so Duval had a proper Xsara, not the dog that Stohl had.

[FrankenSchwinn]

Citroen's emphasis changed when they needed points from Marcus and Ford, so Duval had a proper Xsara, not the dog that Stohl had.

and pug needed nothing last year hence he was faster with some BF's because they are simply better and the car seems to have been -basically- designed for them...... it's the same "conspiracy theories" that i've been saying for years whether it be at citroen, peugeot, mitsu, ford or subaru.

[Xsara Fan]

Exactly JAM, I tried to edit my post to mention this as well, but I was too slow before the 15 minutes edit time was up.

Citroen's emphasis changed when they needed points from Marcus and Ford, so Duval had a proper Xsara, not the dog that Stohl had.

OMG! Dudu was a works Citroen driver in 2005. He has huge test programme and he knows this car very much. That`s why he (with his 'tarmac talent') has no problems to find right setup to tarmac rally`s this year (he used the same 'active' Xsara).

Manfred use 'active' Xsara in 2005. As I know during this season Kronos has test programme (with help of Citroen test-drivers (i.e. Juuso Pykalisto)). Also 'active' Xsara is less diffucult in 'finding the setup' process (I remember that Seb has many problems with setup during first tests with 'passive' Xsara).

And in 2007 Manfred use 'passive' Xsara. Carlsson, Galli, Duval and Garde used 'active' Xsaras and can`t help Stohl to find a good setup! That`s why I think that the main problem is: Manfred is BAD test-pilot...!!!

[Tomi]

As I know during this season Kronos has test programme (with help of Citroen test-drivers (i.e. Juuso Pykalisto)).

That`s why I think that the main problem is: Manfred is BAD test-pilot...!!!

I dont think Pykälistö has been testing citroen for a very long time now (about a year), also Stohl said during NORF that the reason he drives so many times in shakedown isbecause he has no possibility to test.

[Xsara Fan]

I dont think Pykälistö has been testing citroen for a very long time now (about a year), also Stohl said during NORF that the reason he drives so many times in shakedown isbecause he has no possibility to test.

You don`t understood me ;) I said in 2005/2006 Pykalisto took part in Xsara testing.

[Tomi]

You don`t understood me ;) I said in 2005/2006 Pykalisto took part in Xsara testing.

Yes, sorry i did missread a part of your post.