Alloy hubs for pickups?

[blakep82]

Hello again,
you may remember a few months back I posted a message on here asking if anyone had old Kevlar or broken fibreglass panels.Topic here :) (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117372)

firstly i wanted to think everyone involved in helping me get sorted with a set of panels for My road going truck

here's the next bit though :D I managed to get myself an atlas axle off ebay for £25 which i have retubed and converted pickup spec with parts from SHP. I wondered if anyone still had any alloy hubs laying about in the back of their workshops which aren't useable in racing anymore?

Also, i had planned to use an American 3 litre V6 engine (which has been in my garage for years) in my truck, tried putting it in last week to make sure it fits, which it just won't :confused: I'm not expecting anyone would have race engines 'just laying about' but where's the best place to start looking for a Vauxhall red top engine (c20xe) on a very tight budget? And is it the Ford type 9 gearbox some of you guys use for racing? albeit a 4 speed box, and usually a quaife box. I'm considering using a 5 speed from a Sierra as there is a bellhousing for the red top to type 9.

Please feel free to contact me on blakeperkins82@hotmail.com (which is the best way) or PM me on here if you can help me in anyway :D

Look forward to hearing from you all :)

[royale31]

I would try and get hold of a calibra off ebay for the engine it'll work out cheaper in the long run to get yourself a redtop, I did this myself a year age when i needed just the engine bought a calibra for spares or repair had toreplace the head gasket but then sold all the the parts of the car and mademy money back!

[blakep82]

^ a few people have said that, didn't go down well with my mum and dad... as expected :( haven't got anywhere to keep the bit either theres a few engines on ebay at the moment with no bids finishing tomorrow, starting at £150. looks worth a bid

[pickup]

Why do you need a red top if it's only a road replica and your'e on a budget any twin cam vauxhall would drop in and you could change (or paint) the plug cover for a red one or even a zetec might be an option plenty of those about and some people were using them in the race trucks.
Richard Novell 24 had some alloy hubs try e-mailing him through his website if he's still got them a few beer tokens might prise them from his grasp.
Is this really going to be road legal, SVA test could be interesting!

[blakep82]

I've decided to use a red top for a few reasons, firstly they are very powerful, and easily tuned for more power. second, i they're tried and tested in pickup racing, i know the chassis mounts are in the right place, bellhousings to fit, plus i've already been given a pair or engine mounts for the red top (though they wouldn't be too expensive to replace for a zetec right enough) I'm not overly keen on the ecotec, but i guess there's as much power to be had from one as there is a red top (just not in standard form) looking on ebay as a guide the red top seems to be cheaper than a zetec too.

thats the plan anyway... Although i'm not racing it, i'd still like as much power in it as i can. I don't think SVA should be too much of a problem. the only worry i've got is with that bar down the middle of the window, still, when SVA comes, it take it with the bar in place, and a hacksaw in my back pocket if its a problem :D as long as i make sure there's no sharp edges inside and out, and plan the lights out properly, it should be easy

Thanks for the suggestion of contacting Richard! just sent him an email

[JovialJooles]

Hi Blake,

Any chance of some work in progress photos to let us see how you're getting on?

Good luck,

Julian

[racing59]

The one thing I know about the Coscast headed 2.0XE engines is that they are more prone to cracking than the later "Ecotec" engines, but it's true that they do flow better than the later Ecotec heads.

The C20XE/LN was also used in some road cars badged as Ecotecs - those that don't know may let them go cheaper than a true "red top".
Check the engine number, though you can clearly see the difference between a C20XE/LN head compared to the more "slimline" Ecotec casting.

Power wise, there's not much to choose between the two - as standard. If you go to someone like "CNCHeads.co.uk" you can get some very nice kit!!

As has been said - you can't go wrong picking up a cheap and cheerful 2.0L 16v Calibra or even Repolier off eBay, as you'll rebuild the engine before putting it in your Pickup - won't you!

Personally, I'd fit a throttlebody injection system to it, rather than carburtooters, it'll p through the SVA test with a well calibrated injection system, and it'll be pleasant to drive - even in town when you're posing!

Now you're making think about building a road going ASCAR.............

Stop me before I go mental!

Whoooo hoo hoo hoo har ha ha haaaaaaa (they're coming to take me away ha. haaaaaa!)

Rob.

[blakep82]

Hi Blake,

Any chance of some work in progress photos to let us see how you're getting on?

Good luck,

Julian

certainly will! i'll do it tomorrow as long as its not raining, i'm just off out to the pub!

[blakep82]

racing 59: I'm planning on using which ever engine i end up with, in standard for, so as long as its a complete runner, i'll use it on injection, before converting to carb or throttle body later.

form what you say, an ecotec maybe still be a good option despite the cylinder head on them. are all the mounting points the same? gearbox mountings etc? ecotecs certainly seem to sell for cheap on ebay

and it definitely will get a rebuild!

I've now got an extra push to get it finished quick, my sister's getting married in august and wants it as a wedding car. interesting choice!

[pickup]

I don't think SVA should be too much of a problem. the only worry i've got is with that bar down the middle of the window, still, when SVA comes, it take it with the bar in place, and a hacksaw in my back pocket if its a problem :D as long as i make sure there's no sharp edges inside and out, and plan the lights out properly, it should be easy

I assume from your statement that you haven't SVA'd a kit type vehicle before!
I have and if only it were that simple, as Rob said try and use the injection system and all ancilleries fitted to it to make sure it meets all emission regs plus you'll have to run a full cat exhaust system (unless the engine was pre cat but you'll have to provide a certificate to verify engine age anyway). An efficient wash/wipe system, an efficient demisting system, seat belts and achorage points will have to meet specific criteria as will seats and seat mountings, the inside (and probably outside) will need serious work to meet projection and radius requirements, i had a potential fail because the corners of a 12mm nut were to sharp that's how fussy they are and the list goes on and on and it isn't easy.
If you haven't got one i would suggest you beg,buy or steal an Sva manual to help anyway after my ramblings i wish you good luck and look forward to seeing a roadgoing SHP pickuptruck.

[Abo]

ot expecting anyone would have race engines 'just laying about' but where's the best place to start looking for a Vauxhall red top engine (c20xe) on a very tight budget?

Does it have to be a red top? There must loads of C16XE's in crashed chav Corsas, in scrapyards up and down the country... Or how about a C20LET/Z20LET? A pickup with one of those in would go like **** off a stick, especially after a remap ;)

[blakep82]

Pickup: lol yeah, never SVA'd a car before i got a downloaded copy of the SVA manual off the internet. I think when starting with a completly bare chassis as i did, i can't think of any sharp endges inside the car. so projections inside shouldn't be a problem as long as think carefully about my chosen switches, or bonnet catches on the outside etc, should be ok. Roll bar padding always helps inside though :D You have got me thinking about seatbelt mountings though... i'm still working on the mechanics of the car before sorting out the insides and outside though

Abo: there was a calibra turbo being broken in my town, but the engine was already away. I'm told though, that the turbo engines were actually a lower compression ratio (which i guess would only be a bit of a let down if i decided not to use the turbo, which would just be silly :D )

Julian: didn't get a chance to get all the body on again today (too hungover...) but i do have some pictures up here (Click (http://www.bebo.com/PhotoAlbum.jsp?MemberId=4198536397&PhotoNbr=1&PhotoAlbumId=4712667479) The body work pics were taken a few months back. I always forget to take pictures when i work on it. I've done a lot of fibreglass work on the inside of the panels, but done little to the outside yet. the front bumper had a crack up the middle of the front, and the right hand sill was completely broken at the front under the door. so a lot of repair but not much cosmetically on the outside, i'll leave all that kind of work til near the end. knowing me i'll end up damaging something if i sorted it all out now. back axle is from a ford aerostar, its a 5 stud axle so it's getting replaced. its just there to hold things together and get it moving

[Abo]

Abo: there was a calibra turbo being broken in my town, but the engine was already away. I'm told though, that the turbo engines were actually a lower compression ratio (which i guess would only be a bit of a let down if i decided not to use the turbo, which would just be silly :D )

Yeah, turbo engines are lower compression than NA because they suddenly become somewhat high compression when the turbo is working ;)

You can run a turbo engine NA, you just skim the head/deck the block down a lot to bring the compression back up. Years ago a mate of mine was running a Mk2 Escort with the engine from a Sierra Cossie in it; he'd upped the compression and was running it on twin 48's if I remember right. Can't remember what box was in it, but he had a single piece prop turning the original 1.3L diff. Diff lasted about 300 miles...

[JovialJooles]

Thanks for posting the link. Good photos... :)

[blakep82]

Yeah, turbo engines are lower compression than NA because they suddenly become somewhat high compression when the turbo is working ;)


lol! well yeah, of course the turbo does increase the compression a little bit! forgot to add that to my post.

Hmm, a turbo with dump valve would make quite a nice sound.

Z20LET, a turbo'd ecotec. worth looking into. ecotec engines seem to be around quite cheap. (much cheaper than C20xe's anyway) do they have all the same mountings? I'm thinking bellhousings to a ford gearbox for RWD.

is the quaif box a straight replacement for any ford box? eg the type 9?

Edit: there's a 2.0 ecotec on ebay right now, 99p no bids, 1 day 19hrs left, 79,000 miles, but in belfast. if it ends up cheap enough, maybe worth a trip over there. never been to NI before!
also a turbo kit with exhaust manifold, smokes a bit, and no actuator for £1.70

[Abo]

lol! well yeah, of course the turbo does increase the compression a little bit! forgot to add that to my post.

Hmm, a turbo with dump valve would make quite a nice sound.

Z20LET, is that a turbo'd ecotec?



Yes, it's the same 200bhp engine as is in my Zafira. You find it in the Astra GSi and VX220 Turbo also. With a stage 1 tune (remap, and uprated intercooler I think) you'll see 240bhp which is a bit more than the racing pickups ;) You can get the engine over 300bhp without too much problems (but extra cash of course lol)

The Z20LET has been replaced now by the Z20LEH, which is the 240bhp version in the Astra and Zafira VXR. It's more or less the same (I believe) but with a revised turbo. Some tuning companies are doing a conversion for the Z20LET to take the Z20LEH turbo.

[racing59]

Yeah, turbo engines are lower compression than NA because they suddenly become somewhat high compression when the turbo is working ;)

You can run a turbo engine NA, you just skim the head/deck the block down a lot to bring the compression back up. Years ago a mate of mine was running a Mk2 Escort with the engine from a Sierra Cossie in it; he'd upped the compression and was running it on twin 48's if I remember right. Can't remember what box was in it, but he had a single piece prop turning the original 1.3L diff. Diff lasted about 300 miles...

IIRC the C20LET has a static comp ratio of around 8:1, compared to 10:1 for the C20XE. Fit it with the turbo!!!!

If you go for the Atlas back end, it'll handle about 450bhp without too much argument.

And 300miles for that Timken with a N/A Cossie on it - it did well.

The Atlas I had in the Belmont lasted one out-lap, and the length of the club straight at Silverstone before the pinion lost all of it's teeth. That's 700bhp and 600lbft torque for you! It now runs a Strange Industries 9" (like a Ford 9") which just "doesn't care".

However, a good Atlas with an ATB diff will set you back approaching £2-3K with proper brakes, suspension links, etc..

Someone was doing an Atlas alternative - more like an English but able to handle around 350bhp. I think it was Rally Design, but I might be wrong. They had them at Autosport last year, and they were about £1300 all up brand spanking new.

[blakep82]

^ i think there's someone doing a atlas replacement, which is a volvo axle. I forget who though. rally design apparently stopped doing the herculese axles, though they're still advertised on the front page of the website.

I'm gonna have a punt on that ecotec in belfast. might have a go at that turbo too...

[Abo]

And 300miles for that Timken with a N/A Cossie on it - it did well.



Lol, this was while running the engine in ;)

Joffa (for that was his name) lunched two of those diffs in the running in period, so bit the bullet and bought something beefier with an LSD in it. Can't remember what it was though, it was a while back.

Lol i remember what a pig to work on that car was, it took us a whole day to change the steering rack because the bolts were so seized... Tinworm killed the car in the end, so he swapped it for a XR4i. He should have reshelled it IMHO but it was his daily driver and he needed a car...

[Abo]

I'm gonna have a punt on that ecotec in belfast. might have a go at that turbo too...

Thought about your ECU? How about building your own?

http://www.megasquirt.info/

And I reckon the front of a Pickup will take a decent intercooler (the standard one is pretty square so a good portion of it would be out of the airflow); give Dan from www.universal-intercoolers.co.uk (http://www.universal-intercoolers.co.uk) a ring on 07949 073344 and tell him Neal sent you. He scratch-built a turbo kit for his MX-5, including a home-brew ECU (I drove it, it was pretty quick...) and he's a good source of advice.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I realise that with a turbo'd VX engine and a decent gearbox, a pickup would be an awesome trackday car.

[briggs'mechanic]

Good colours on the bodywork hope your gonna keep them, was quite spooky..Good luck anyway.

[blakep82]

Thanks for the link Neal! when i was going to use my V6, i was going to run a carb on it, and use megajolt, so megasquirt had been in my mind for this one. to start though, if i can get an engine with ECU, i'll just run it as standard to start with, then onto megasquirt later.

do you think that smokey turbo on ebay is worth it? i know very little about turbos...

turbo's at £16 now,
the ecotec's still at 99p, but its in belfast. the £200 for the ferry plus van hire is putting me off a bit though

[blakep82]

Good colours on the bodywork hope your gonna keep them, was quite spooky..Good luck anyway.

LOL! who knows what colour it'll end up. Do you happen to remember that particular body? most likely not, but i often wonder what happened to it? the back panel still had the brackets attached form the chassis. think it got hit fairly hard.

Does Dave have any old alloy hubs in his workshop he might like to sell me? :)

[Abo]

Thanks for the link Neal! when i was going to use my V6, i was going to run a carb on it, and use megajolt, so megasquirt had been in my mind for this one. to start though, if i can get an engine with ECU, i'll just run it as standard to start with, then onto megasquirt later.

do you think that smokey turbo on ebay is worth it? i know very little about turbos...

turbo's at £16 now,
the ecotec's still at 99p, but its in belfast. the £200 for the ferry plus van hire is putting me off a bit though

Can you post the links to the eBay auctions, I'll have a look?

[blakep82]

engine
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Vectra-Engine-2-0L-2-0-2L-ecotec-engine-x20XEV_W0QQitemZ140175378067QQihZ004QQcategoryZ104 04QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

turbo
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/astra-turbo-unit-also-for-gsi-z20let-zafira-faulty_W0QQitemZ190171076885QQihZ009QQcategoryZ104 04QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

:)

[Abo]

engine
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Vectra-Engine-2-0L-2-0-2L-ecotec-engine-x20XEV_W0QQitemZ140175378067QQihZ004QQcategoryZ104 04QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

turbo
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/astra-turbo-unit-also-for-gsi-z20let-zafira-faulty_W0QQitemZ190171076885QQihZ009QQcategoryZ104 04QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

:)

That engine looks sound enough, if it's as described. Dunno about that turbo though, you'll need to find an actuator which is no big deal (one here: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Opel-VXR-OPC-Turbo-Actuator-KKK-Astra-G-H-ZLET_W0QQitemZ260180041063QQihZ016QQcategoryZ72205 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) but if it's smoky then it'll need an overhaul. Still, if you get it for buttons then it might be worth a punt?

Easy enough to lower the compression on an engine, so you can use that turbo on it!

[blakep82]

how heavy are these engines? looks like its not got a gearbox with it. just wondering how much of a pain in the bum it'll be to go on the ferry on foot, and just take the car/van to stranraer. i've got a trolley it can go on. and see if they guy would meet me at the ferry. says he lives in belfast

don't know if stena would mind that though...

£40 per person with no car, £180 for just me and the car

i'm thinking for that turbo, maybe putting a max bid of £30, so £45 all in including postage. i wouldn't go much more than that for it at this stage

[Abo]

how heavy are these engines? looks like its not got a gearbox with it. just wondering how much of a pain in the bum it'll be to go on the ferry on foot, and just take the car/van to stranraer. i've got a trolley it can go on. and see if they guy would meet me at the ferry. says he lives in belfast

don't know if stena would mind that though...

£40 per person with no car, £180 for just me and the car

i'm thinking for that turbo, maybe putting a max bid of £30, so £45 all in including postage. i wouldn't go much more than that for it at this stage

They weight about 140kg IIRC but I'm not sure whether that's with or without the sump.

[racing59]

Thats 30kg lighter than the 403ci chevy v8 in my Belmont!!!

Still more than I'd want to lift!!

Rob

[blakep82]

as you can see, i didn't bid on either... the cost of the ferry, van hire etc was all a bit much to think about. i'd rather spend £150 locally on one, rather than 99p in belfast.

got all my mates on the case looking for an engine now though! one of my mates knows some of the guys from the breakers round here quite well.

[Abo]

as you can see, i didn't bid on either... the cost of the ferry, van hire etc was all a bit much to think about. i'd rather spend £150 locally on one, rather than 99p in belfast.

got all my mates on the case looking for an engine now though! one of my mates knows some of the guys from the breakers round here quite well.

Sounds like you should get sorted pretty easily then

[A race fan]

try rob speaks dad i know they get engines for a race builder not far from manchester

[blakep82]

Thank you to everyone for helping me look for an engine, hopefully should be able to find a 2.0 ecotec locally. thinking on going for bike carbs (over webers or standard injection) as they're pretty cheap, and power gains should be pretty good. and using megajolt for the ignition. fully mappable etc.

Though back to the original question :D does anyone have any old alloy hubs they'd like to sell me? I've emailed Richard Novell and Gavin Seager but haven't heard back from them yet. Has anyone got any email addresses for anyone else who might be able to help? :)

[racing59]

Bike carbs can be a pain to set up. Especially when you want to get them jetted up right. They are not as easy to sort out for progression, though they work OK when you use the gas pedal as a switch!

DCOE's are a cheap option if you can find some good second-hand ones, and there lies the challenge - good second-hand ones!

Don't forget Dellorto's the alternative.

BMW M3 throttle bodies appear on eBay from time to time. Worth a scan for "throttle body"

Rob.

[blakep82]

the thing with bike carbs is, a lot of the vauxhall boys and kit car boys like them on their road cars. they're cheap, in fact, got a set for £21 off ebay at 4 o'clock this afternoon. A manifold should be easy enough to make. setting up may well be a mission, but i did do a search on ebay for M3 throttle bodies off an E36, £250 or £375 buy it now price. they do look nice right enough, but i don't mind spending the time to get the bike carbs set up :D

thanks for the advice though! If they don't turn out to be too good, i can alays put them back on ebay again, even if i do make a small loss on them

[deadsquirrel]

When you DO get it finished, maybe we could get your PuT running as a pace vehicle at Rockingham? Will it be ready for next season? :)

[blakep82]

^ i had thought of that too! :D hopefully ready for end of next season.

I did wonder why they didn't have one built as a pace car anyway!

[blakep82]

Still having no luck with the hubs :( any more ideas of who might have some, anyone? surely there must be some still around?