2007 championship, Loeb or Gronholm?

[Langdale Forest]

After the first day of rally Japan, Gronholm is already out of the rally and Loeb is in 2nd.

If he finishes where he is he will have a 4 point lead in the championship and with rally Ireland being tarmac there is a good chance he could win there.

Loeb has never won rally GB, but Gronholm has won twice. Even if he wins it this year it might not be enough towin the championship it Loeb wins in Ireland and if Loeb finishes on the podium in GB.

I think Loeb will win the campionship this year.

[J4MIE]

I can't see Loeb losing it now, he's already had his annual mistake in Sardinia.

[xavier]

I can't see Loeb losing it now, he's already had his annual mistake in Sardinia.

He actualy made 2 this year.. Even if the one in Norway was not as costly (6 point against 12).

He will win except if he gets a DNF on one of the last 3 rallies.

[J4MIE]

He actualy made 2 this year.. Even if the one in Norway was not as costly (6 point against 12).

Sure, but he still finished. Also Ford didn't ask Hirvonen to let Marcus past, so that's two points less lost as well.

I did think at the time that Malcolm Wilson was wrong not to have team orders... other events too but I forget which. Germany for one.

[Roy]

....Germany for one.

How? Hirvonenen finished allready when it happend.

And why? Do we now look back and say if, if? O come on. We live in a this is world. Fact is telling what we have. For Gronholm it is a pitty. I want to see him as Champion too, but he don't helped him self now. That is more important then a teamboss who said to a teammate slowdown.

[c4]

Yes it appears to be in Loebs hands.The preparation for RI has demonstrated that Loeb has mastered the nature of the roads, whereas Gronholm dosent appear comfortable and I dont think a two day test in the IOM will be sufficient, thus more points dropped to Loeb and too much to do at RGB.

[A.F.F.]

Well, like MikeD said, it ain't over till fat lady sing. I won't count Marcus out until rally GB is over. No matter what the points are.

[Fischer]

Loeb's method of driving makes mistakes almost impossible, if I was a betting man, I would bet on Loeb becoming champion again.

[COD]

There is allways the Kimi factor... Besides, two more days in Japan and two rallies after that so it anyones game. Although sad to say, at this moment Loeb is the favourite

[ZequeArgentina]

Loeb's method of driving makes mistakes almost impossible, .

What? He has a method to drive at that speed but mistakes "almost impossible"? How is that?
As far as I consider, he knows how to be very close to the lmit but not overdriving.

[N.O.T]

Loeb has the advantage for sure...but Ireland is new ground for everyone and the fors is a better car than the C4 so...

[Corny]

I hope Marcus, but I fear Sebastien.. With a tarmac rally to go it has to be Seb

[White Sauron]

oh, if not for that Portugal farce...

[Josti]

I think it depends on Ireland. Yes it's tarmac, but it's different from others, let alone a whole new rally. But if Loeb wins Ireland, I think he's got the title in his pocket.

[tmx]

I can not beleive it! Loab crashes out. Gronhom have hopes. Gronholm hope will also be depended on Mikko or Jari finishing on top of Loeb.

[Helstar]

Loeb has already won lately Cork International Rally and anyway tarmac is his reign ... I can't see how Bosse can win there ^^

[tmx]

Loeb has already won lately Cork International Rally and anyway tarmac is his reign ... I can't see how Bosse can win there ^^

gronholm won one too.

[White Sauron]

And in contrast to Loeb - led on first day.

[Finni]

Loeb has the advantage for sure...but Ireland is new ground for everyone and the fors is a better car than the C4 so...

Ford is better? Based on what? I wouldn't say that Ford is better especially on asphalt.

[N.O.T]

based on the fact that its is an evolution step ahead and also the performance of the drivers who are inferior yet they manage to be close to Loeb.....

Now the championship is on fire again and i would not count out Hirvonen in GB ...i think he can match Loebs pace there so things are getting very very interesting i must say....

however i think that Ireland is going to be the decisive rally not GB

[Finni]

based on the fact that its is an evolution step ahead and also the performance of the drivers who are inferior yet they manage to be close to Loeb.....

Haha.. Ford is evolution and Citroen is not which should mean that Ford is faster. According to this halting logic Subaru should have been always fastest as they had new evolution version every year.. And Latvala by the way is not driving -07 evolution, there is no much difference between those versions.

Yers, Hirvonen could have been challenge to Loeb in this rally - especially when Seb had to play safe due to championship situation. You have to remember that Hirvonen has been good challenge also to Grönholm in few rallies. There is absolutely no reason why Hirvonen couldn't perform equally in the C4.

As to Latvala, I think that he would have hard times with Sordo if not retired. Latvala by the way has been stunningly fast with wrc-car already few years and his current performance level (2-3 min from the top) is not surprising anyone who has watched his career.

[N.O.T]

Haha.. Ford is evolution and Citroen is not which should mean that Ford is faster. According to this halting logic Subaru should have been always fastest as they had new evolution version every year.. And Latvala by the way is not driving -07 evolution, there is no much difference between those versions.

Yers, Hirvonen could have been challenge to Loeb in this rally - especially when Seb had to play safe due to championship situation. You have to remember that Hirvonen has been good challenge also to Grönholm in few rallies. There is absolutely no reason why Hirvonen couldn't perform equally in the C4.

As to Latvala, I think that he would have hard times with Sordo if not retired. Latvala by the way has been stunningly fast with wrc-car already few years and his current performance level (2-3 min from the top) is not surprising anyone who has watched his career.

Well Ford had a good car to begin with so the evolution is a step ahead.....Subaru needs a revolution to get into the game now not a simple evolution. The C4 is unchanged for a year now.

I was not refering to latvala but the main 2 ford kids Gronholm and Hirvonen...as drivers they need to learn a bit more to be close to Loeb as far as driving goes...Gronholm is too old unfortunately to do that and he decided to ran away (maybe with a title) from the challenge next year.....Hirvonen i think can and will evolve...I think next year he could steal 2-3 rallies from Loeb.

thats my opinion and you know what they say about them.... :)

[jens]

Citroen needs a 1-2 from Ireland, then we would have a great finale.

Something has been wrong with Loeb this year. He has made uncharacteristically many mistakes...

[N.O.T]

hmmmm.....this year it reminds me the first year Loeb had with xsara WRC he didn't avoid mistakes back then either (Germany and Sweden are the ones i can remember)...maybe its a process of getting used to the car at the limit....time will tell.

[Finni]

Well Ford had a good car to begin with so the evolution is a step ahead.....Subaru needs a revolution to get into the game now not a simple evolution. The C4 is unchanged for a year now.

I was not refering to latvala but the main 2 ford kids Gronholm and Hirvonen...as drivers they need to learn a bit more to be close to Loeb as far as driving goes...Gronholm is too old unfortunately to do that and he decided to ran away (maybe with a title) from the challenge next year.....Hirvonen i think can and will evolve...I think next year he could steal 2-3 rallies from Loeb.

thats my opinion and you know what they say about them.... :)

As far as I know C4 will not be developed in terms of evolution versions as was not Xsara also. That obviously doesn't mean that developement is stopped? Everyone involved in rallying knows that your whole "Ford has evolution" argument is irrelevant. It's not better than saying "C4 is developed longer and its more new, so it must be better".

Your view on Hirvonen is probably underrating. In your circular thinking being few times as fast as Grönholm means that one cannot be as fast as Loeb in any rally. I think that's the presupposition that most forumers don't share.

[koko0703]

I guess the championship now depends as much on 2nd drivers as Macus and Loeb themselves. Can Sordo finish in front of Macus in Ireland??? Can Hirvonen stay in front of Loeb in GB??? From that perspective, I think there's a bigger posibility for Hirvonen giving Macus bigger help than Sordo to Loeb.

[Brother John]

Loeb has already won lately Cork International Rally and anyway tarmac is his reign ... I can't see how Bosse can win there ^^ That was a test drive and now other WRC drivers in the run, exept Mikko. :s mokin:

[A.F.F.]

Marcus is hardly a "Ford kid".

[White Sauron]

Gronholm? Develop? What you're talking about, NOT? He's one of the two most successful drivers ever. If he has to develop, than what should Solberg and others do??

[Glee]

Is the championship Loeb's, or shall we wait for the fat lady who sings?

[Corny]

knowing Sebastien, he can't give it away.. He will not make a Japan mistake again.
But you never know

[tmx]

if loeb coming to gb at 110points and marcus at 104, then i think for marcus to have a chance loeb cant finish higher than 4th there, that is not likely the case, since he kows this he wont need to push to the limit and crash out neither.

[Tomi]

still 5 days of driving left, everything is open.

[Glee]

Did just watch the coverage from Ireland.

Pretty many small mistakes from Loeb (and other). Just pure luck that he didn't hit anything.

[TMorel]

I dunno, I seem to remember a lot of people thinking Lewis Hamilton would cruise to his first WDC - it ain't over till they cross that final control (or lodge an appeal as seems the fashion lately)

[L5->R5/CR]

knowing Sebastien, he can't give it away.. He will not make a Japan mistake again.
But you never know

Many drivers say it is harder and more dangerous to drive at 90% than 101%...

Seb will very likely be pushing at WRGB just to keep his concentration, when that is the case anything can and will happen. All it takes is on wheel put wrong in the wrong location for things to go very very badly.

I'd imagine though that at WRGB Dani will be carrying extra spares and will be "under orders" to make sure if Sebastien has a problem that the damage is as minimal as possible. That said Sebastien will have to run a good rally. Mikko and Marcus will be 100% flat out, and I'd imagine that Jarri Matti and Henning will be under orders to do everything they can to get in front of Seb (not saying they could do it but...).

WRGB will be interesting.

[tmx]

I'd imagine though that at WRGB Dani will be carrying extra spares and will be "under orders" to make sure if Sebastien has a problem that the damage is as minimal as possible. That said Sebastien will have to run a good rally. Mikko and Marcus will be 100% flat out, and I'd imagine that Jarri Matti and Henning will be under orders to do everything they can to get in front of Seb (not saying they could do it but...).

WRGB will be interesting.
Petter has won GB many times, marcus will rely on him as well.

[L5->R5/CR]

Petter has won GB many times, marcus will rely on him as well.



Not sure if Petter has the heart or the car to pressure Seb, but who knows...

[Glee]

Not sure if Petter has the heart or the car to pressure Seb, but who knows...

I think he has the hart...

Remember: Marcus is (one of) his "learning masters", Seb is his rival - for years to come...

[Langdale Forest]

Loeb will probably win the championship now but it will be very intresting.

[A.F.F.]

Should Loeb finish Rally Ireland in points, I bet it will be impossible for Marcus to get the title. Competitionwise the level just isn't wide enough to Loeb get any threat besides Marcus and Mikko... and that won't be enough :mark:

But, what can we say. It's Marcus himself to blame this time.

[tannat]

I so desparately want Marcus to win this one, but I can't see it happening. Loeb exiting Japan following his own exit was a Godsend, then he doesn't get past one leg in Ireland? Not wise, not smart..

Pressure? I just can't see it. I think he'll be very fast in Wales, moreso than the Alsatian.

Marcus, Marcus, Marcus....... may all be on your side (yet again) in Wales....

[pino]

I think is over, only a miracle can give Marcus the title now. Sad because although I've an huge respect for Loeb, and I like him a lot, I wanted Marcus to retire with a title in his hands. That would've been the best reward for his amazing career :up:

[Mark]

Would be fantastic for Marcus to win, but he just doesn't have the luck :( .

[Corny]

Would be fantastic for Marcus to win, but he just doesn't have the luck :( .

you make your own luck ;)

[I am evil Homer]

I think is over, only a miracle can give Marcus the title now. Sad because although I've an huge respect for Loeb, and I like him a lot, I wanted Marcus to retire with a title in his hands. That would've been the best reward for his amazing career :up:

Yep...and I'm a Loeb fan! Marcus has been brilliant for the sport and to go out on a high would be perfect. You never know what might happen - as the last two events have proven.

[MikeD]

Maybe some of you can help me with a question that has been on my mind for a while.

Why is it that Loeb doesn't generate the huge fan base despite his amazing results? Is it a nationality issue? - or is it a personality issue? - or is it a "Citroen" issue?

The reason I ask is because when drivers like Senna or Schumacher entered F1 they generated massive fan bases, and so did rally drivers like McRae and Sainz.

I really like Loeb - both as a driver and his friendly and straight foward personality, and I cannot find anything negative about him. He is not controversial or arrogant - so why is that there are only like 10 loeb fans in here?

[J.Lindstroem]

I think Hirvonen already has shown that he can beat Loeb on gravel when Malcolm lets him to go full attack. And in Japan we saw Latvala beeing strong there also infront of Loeb. These to guys have nothing to loose and im sure they will do everyting to make Marcus win the title.

And Petter Solberg? He has won there with pure speed 3 times, and now when the car seems to be alright i don't doubt that he can challenge Loeb!

I whould say, everything can still happen and nothing is decided untill the end of the last stage!

[Tomi]

I like Loeb too, he is a good sportman, also he dont talk about winning, he actually do the job, personalitys are different, its only good if a guy dont try to change because if sponsors want that.

[tmx]

Why is it that Loeb doesn't generate the huge fan base despite his amazing results? Is it a nationality issue? - or is it a personality issue? - or is it a "Citroen" issue?

I really like Loeb - both as a driver and his friendly and straight foward personality, and I cannot find anything negative about him. He is not controversial or arrogant - so why is that there are only like 10 loeb fans in here?

i felt like he becomes so successful because he is put in such a perfect situation, in the right team, with the right coorperation and will to acheive, the right car, the right nation (the team/manufacturer, tyres and fia are all french). he might not have been as sucessful if he might have drove for a different manufacturer for example. but okay i still like him, he's a very nice and humble person. i don't have anything against him, i just find that this situation makes the sport very boring.

i really cheer for marcus, because of his style and his willing to give everything, which is more entertaining than loeb's extreme efficiency and at the sametime very boring to watch, but i guess that's what guess that's what get you the titles. also i have to mention that marcus is older than loeb, his health might not be as fit anymore, you can see it in his eyes, and he still is trying hard.

okay now i am going to run away very fast before i get flamed.

[noel157]

Maybe some of you can help me with a question that has been on my mind for a while.

Why is it that Loeb doesn't generate the huge fan base despite his amazing results? Is it a nationality issue? - or is it a personality issue? - or is it a "Citroen" issue?

The reason I ask is because when drivers like Senna or Schumacher entered F1 they generated massive fan bases, and so did rally drivers like McRae and Sainz.

I really like Loeb - both as a driver and his friendly and straight foward personality, and I cannot find anything negative about him. He is not controversial or arrogant - so why is that there are only like 10 loeb fans in here?

I agree, Loeb is friendly and straight forward. But I do think he is more private than the other drivers you've mentioned. He never causes controversey (maybe Japan, ref Elena, was the nearest) and essentially reads from the script in interviews. Perhaps the difference is also down to personalty - private and public personna.

[Xsara Fan]

i felt like he becomes so successful because he is put in such a perfect situation, in the right team, with the right coorperation and will to acheive, the right car, the right nation (the team/manufacturer, tyres and fia are all french). he might not have been as sucessful if he might have drove for a different manufacturer for example.

1. You think that Marcus сould become 2 times world rally champion with Hyundai?
Or Tommy could become 4 times champion with SEAT?
2. In 2003 Seb was the best from the 'Citroen Sport' drivers. But Sainz & McRae has the same cars and also the first driver of the team was... Colin!

[cut the b.s.]

Maybe some of you can help me with a question that has been on my mind for a while.

Why is it that Loeb doesn't generate the huge fan base despite his amazing results? Is it a nationality issue? - or is it a personality issue? - or is it a "Citroen" issue?

The reason I ask is because when drivers like Senna or Schumacher entered F1 they generated massive fan bases, and so did rally drivers like McRae and Sainz.

I really like Loeb - both as a driver and his friendly and straight foward personality, and I cannot find anything negative about him. He is not controversial or arrogant - so why is that there are only like 10 loeb fans in here?

I have often wondered this, personally I think the guy is great, I think some of the negativety comes from his driving style, he is the neatest driver I have ever watched on a stage, many like the big drifts. Not many seem to realise that his style is much more difficult and takes more commitment.

Also there are a lot of scandinavians about here and recently he has been a small problem to the dreams of their drivers, they should all cheer up and be happy that they are all so well represented even if they are often competing for 2nd

[Gard]

At least, in GB we will see all the Fords with only one "simple" order. Pedal to the metall and get ahead of Loeb. But Loeb only needs 5'th or better and he is the champ. So basically all the top 4 Fords and a Subie needs to be ahead. Yeah right...

[Koz]

At least, in GB we will see all the Fords with only one "simple" order. Pedal to the metall and get ahead of Loeb. But Loeb only needs 5'th or better and he is the champ. So basically all the top 4 Fords and a Subie needs to be ahead. Yeah right...

Hey, the odds were against kimi too :)
Loeb wont finish due to mechanical failure and Marcus will win :D

[Brother John]

Maybe some of you can help me with a question that has been on my mind for a while.

Why is it that Loeb doesn't generate the huge fan base despite his amazing results? Is it a nationality issue? - or is it a personality issue? - or is it a "Citroen" issue?

Loeb is a terrible good driver and I am unfortunately no supporter of him.
I think it ´s a nationality problem.
We talk now concerning Loeb and the french but it can be for some others that they have the same feeling of a another country and another driver!
I say you what my experience is and want no fight with the french!!
Have you ever worked for french people or you have lived in France?
I do not mean holiday in France because that is very good there.
My experience, they are not pleasantly ore friendly if you do not speak their language!
Also in WRC they treated several foreign drivers not fair.
How you can expect then that people become a big fan of everything what is French in this case.
Where are all the French rally fans remained here on the forum???
Why we don´t see many germans or belgians, estonians and go on .............? Same thing.
I don´t want to start a war here. ;)
Several cultures with several languages thats the largest problem!
But that´s the largest EU problem! :D

[Josti]

Maybe some of you can help me with a question that has been on my mind for a while.

Why is it that Loeb doesn't generate the huge fan base despite his amazing results? Is it a nationality issue? - or is it a personality issue? - or is it a "Citroen" issue?


I think it's just his personality. Most people like outgoing characters like Marcus or Petter. He's fairly quiet. But I also think it's the way he dominated the championship over the years. He kind of made it look to easy, which people generally don't like to see.

His interviews are always very notable. He's very cliché in his answers, but then again, what else can he say when he's in the same position most of the times. Though a practical joke once in a while wouldn't be minded. BTW, I don't see why nationality would bother some one... :\

[xavier]

.....Also in WRC they treated several foreign drivers not fair.
How you can expect then that people become a big fan of everything what is French in this case.


Since when WRC (FIA you mean or teams?) treated non french drivers unfairly?
I will not comment on the rest of your posting, it doesn't deserve any...

As for Seb popularity... I guess many of his fans are of the quite kind, like Seb himself... As we can in the above quote, others should take exemple, it would avoid them to make unfounded and stereotypical comments...

He surely does not have the chrarisma of Petter or Marcus... but he as quality of his own... I guess we will have to wait for a tought year for him to see people like him more...

[Magnus]

Loeb is great; definetaly one of the greatest drivers ever, possibly the greatest, but that is difficult to say. I remember when he mad a fool out of poor Thomas Rådström who was supposed to be the gravel-champ. I think he feels better about it today when it turned out that loeb was so amazingly good.
It would be very interesting though to se loeb in another car. Bosse has showed what he can do in different cars, I have no doubt though that Loeb is capable of big things in another car aswell.
Bosse keeps joking around, and thats nice. he also seems a bit more human than Loeb. Loeb on the other hand is also a very amiable guy. Keeps a low profile, which most of them do. From my point of view I think the big difference is that bosse, allthough he is/was very close to beat Loeb on equal terms in the championship, is regarded as the underdog, and that is always popular among the crowds.

I believe though that things would have been very different if Bosse hadn´t slipped on that slippery ugly bad-handling whale for three terrible years. Bosse would have been up there, closing in on forty wins. Bosse would have the records for Loeb to beat. Bosse would then have been regarded as the possibly greatest driver of all time.

[Magnus]

Another remark: That Loeb is french doesn´t matter at all. He is of flesh and bone, even though Bosse thinks he is a machine sometimes. I couldn´t care less what nationality the drivers of the wrc are. They are humans, with different attributes to them, thats all there is to it. I wave my flag for the humble guy, be he then from where ever he wishes...

[consti]

Hey there are some germans here ;)

I`m a little bit afraid of loeb, he`s so good (almost) never does mistakes and so on....

[A.F.F.]

Loeb is a terrible good driver and I am unfortunately no supporter of him.
I think it ´s a nationality problem.
We talk now concerning Loeb and the french but it can be for some others that they have the same feeling of a another country and another driver!
I say you what my experience is and want no fight with the french!!
Have you ever worked for french people or you have lived in France?
I do not mean holiday in France because that is very good there.
My experience, they are not pleasantly ore friendly if you do not speak their language!
Also in WRC they treated several foreign drivers not fair.
How you can expect then that people become a big fan of everything what is French in this case.
Where are all the French rally fans remained here on the forum???
Why we don´t see many germans or belgians, estonians and go on .............? Same thing.
I don´t want to start a war here. ;)
Several cultures with several languages thats the largest problem!
But that´s the largest EU problem! :D


With all due respect BrotherJohn but how is that relevant to wrc in anyway ??

[tmx]

Loeb is great; definetaly one of the greatest drivers ever, possibly the greatest, but that is difficult to say.
only in each of their own period, not all time.

rallies were more than 300km.
cars were less reliable, worse tires, drove at night, different surfaces.
more competing manufacturers with 5-6 other top drivers competing for the win.
some other multi-world champions won with different cars.

[Magnus]

but that is difficult to say.

You quoted me saying it TMX, and I quote it again, since my messsage anyway got stuck somewhere ;)

[Brother John]

With all due respect BrotherJohn but how is that relevant to wrc in anyway ??

@A.F.F. I react only to this post (#46 (http://paradise.motorsportforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=387616&postcount=46)) in these thread! If someone does wonder itself about somthing, why can I not say my opinion?
I know that my responses are iritant for some here. Well sorry about having my own mind. Must I keep my mouth closed? Oke if you want that.

Back to the thread. 2007 championship, Loeb or Gronholm?

If Loeb has no bad luck in Wales Grönholm has only a small chance becoming world champion this year. It will depend on the other drivers. At least 4 or 5 drivers must be faster than Loeb in Wales!

[A.F.F.]

@A.F.F. I react only to this post (#46 (http://paradise.motorsportforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=387616&postcount=46)) in these thread! If someone does wonder itself about somthing, why can I not say my opinion?
I know that my responses are iritant for some here. Well sorry about having my own mind. Must I keep my mouth closed? Oke if you want that.



Fair enough. I didn't realize there actually was a question you were answering. My bad.

And chill BJ. I'm not the person to tell you must shut up :)

[Minke]

@A.F.F. I react only to this post (#46 (http://paradise.motorsportforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=387616&postcount=46)) in these thread! If someone does wonder itself about somthing, why can I not say my opinion?
I know that my responses are iritant for some here. Well sorry about having my own mind. Must I keep my mouth closed? Oke if you want that.

Back to the thread. 2007 championship, Loeb or Gronholm?

If Loeb has no bad luck in Wales Grönholm has only a small chance becoming world champion this year. It will depend on the other drivers. At least 4 or 5 drivers must be faster than Loeb in Wales!

Is Wales a paired engine event? if so.. which other event? C4 has been a little unreliable (Sordo's car) a 2nd event for Loeb's car would worry me a bit

[Magnus]

Could be an issue, even if I doubt it. But Loeb had problems with his engine i japan aswell. So yes, it seems they have a bigger problem with the engines than for example ford or sub for the moment.

[Camelopard]

I know it's easy to say with hindsight, but at the time I really thought that the window fiasco at Portugal would come back to bite Ford in a big way. How many points did Gronholm lose beacause of that? What would the points situation be now?

[duff]

True, but there were three rallies where Gronholm lost a lot of points from his own mistakes - Germany, Japan and Ireland.
I still hope Marcus wins it but there is little doubt that if Loeb is to win the title this year he will have deserved it. The man is incredible.

[DonJippo]

Is Wales a paired engine event? if so.. which other event? C4 has been a little unreliable (Sordo's car) a 2nd event for Loeb's car would worry me a bit

Loeb was supposed to use same engine as in Japan but as the engine broke there he can now have a new one.

[Brother John]

Loeb was supposed to use same engine as in Japan but as the engine broke there he can now have a new one.

Which buds he must press to have the engine broke? :laugh:

[alleskids]

Both Gronholm and Loeb would be deserved Champions. Loeb had more points after a couple of DNF's than Gronholm, so he is the FIA World Rally Champion 2007.

2008 will not be the wash out of loeb that many predict. Hirvonen had to play second fiddle to score manufacterer points, now he can, he must, go flat out. And he showed the last couple of rounds that he can challange Loeb on gravel. Also will Latvalla keep pressure on Loeb on the gravel rounds.

[Langdale Forest]

Hirvonen might win the championship next year.

[White Sauron]

Hirvonen might win the championship next year.

Indeed, if Gronholm wasn't there this year, Loeb would have taken 126 points, and Hirvonen - 115!!! So, Mikko was very close even this year!

[Roy]

Loeb is fenomenal, pitty he is from another team and win to much. The hope from this sport is Latvala. Boy stay on the road please and kick Loeb from his WRC trown...

Congrat to Loeb offcourse. Pitty for Gronholm he didn't make it. Thnx to him, for all years funny quotes ;)

[Finni]

Indeed, if Gronholm wasn't there this year, Loeb would have taken 126 points, and Hirvonen - 115!!! So, Mikko was very close even this year!

In some gravel rallies Mikko was still miles away from Marcus. For instance in Greece the difference was huge. I would also say that if Mikko had pushed in every rally in order to keep with Seb and Marcus he would have had more crashes. But there is nice promises that he could challange Seb in part of gravel rallies.

[White Sauron]

Well, in 1999 few people believed that someone could stop Makinen, for example. In 2002 there were the same thoughts about Gronholm himself. But nothing is eternal. I wouldn't be sirprised if neither Loeb nor even Hirvonen take the title next year!
As for your comment, on some rallies THIS year Mikko was still studying, on others, rough like Sardinia, he delibarately had to play safe to take care of the car. But on rallies, where he was free to push (Finland, Japan, GB) he showed what he is really capable of!

[Roy]

Well, in 1999 few people believed that someone could stop Makinen, for example. In 2002 there were the same thoughts about Gronholm himself. But nothing is eternal. I wouldn't be sirprised if neither Loeb nor even Hirvonen take the title next year!
As for your comment, on some rallies THIS year Mikko was still studying, on others, rough like Sardinia, he delibarately had to play safe to take care of the car. But on rallies, where he was free to push (Finland, Japan, GB) he showed what he is really capable of!

Indeed, Hirvonen is the man ho is fast and consistent. Ford can further with him. But I think Latvala is faster, he have learn the car on the road.
Ford is not missing a leg or handicaped without Gronholm. It will only be more difficult to stay close with Loeb like Gronholm did.
Maybe it is, I hope not... I have more hope now then half season.

[A.F.F.]

Hirvonen said he is ready to challenge Loeb. :up:

[Finni]

As for your comment, on some rallies THIS year Mikko was still studying, on others, rough like Sardinia, he delibarately had to play safe to take care of the car. But on rallies, where he was free to push (Finland, Japan, GB) he showed what he is really capable of!

Mikko was already last year really good in Japan and RAC.

I think that Hirvonen pushed for instance in Greece as he was near to leader after first day (as the whole bunch was tight together). Same was the case for instance in Portugal where he said after first three stages that he aims to beat Loeb. The difference to Marcus cannot be wholly reduced, despite the fact that Mikko seemed some surprising potential when he had to. If everything starts well I think that he might race against Loeb in many rallies. But can he do it consistently in every gravel rally like Marcus did? I am not yet convinced.

[tmx]

Mikko has the advantage that he is a very cool headed driver, and go off very little. I think his consistency helped him get that many points this season. Also he is very good in rallies with narrow and difficult roads, he won in Norway, Japan, and now Wales, all of which are really slippery roads and many other floundered. I never liked Hirvonen during the start of 2006, but now I think he's a quite tactical driver and knows to push when he has the chance. I think this rally shows Hirvonen full speed. I know Loeb wasn't going max out, but I have a 45% certainty that Hirvonen can challenge Loeb for the title next season. That is if Loeb makes some more mistakes, if Hirvonen can't match Loeb speed than Loeb would just cruise and consistency take points. Or if Hirvonen shows some faster speed than now that would surprising.

[Magnus]

Well, in 1999 few people believed that someone could stop Makinen, for example. In 2002 there were the same thoughts about Gronholm himself. But nothing is eternal.
The diff is the car; both Makinen and Bosse ran out of competitive cars, Loeb is not doing that yet.

Wow TMX! 45%! You are really precise in your predictions :)