Prodrive-McLaren negotiations collapse

[Buzz Lightyear]

according to autosport...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63182

oh dear! does this mean the end for team prodrive?

[Sleeper]

Probably, I dont think they were talking to anyone else.

[BDunnell]

Well, there's certainly a lot more to come out about this one, I'm sure.

[SOD]

Nick Fry, Button, Gascoyne, Stepny, Coughlan & Coulthard to Prodrive.

you heard it hear first.

[BDunnell]

Nick Fry, Button, Gascoyne, Stepny, Coughlan & Coulthard to Prodrive.

you heard it hear first.

Nah. I'd already read about it in some documents I got given in a pub in Surrey.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Nick Fry, Button, Gascoyne, Stepny, Coughlan & Coulthard to Prodrive.

you heard it hear first.

fry, button, gazza and even stepny... i could believe.... if it was a mclaren customer team. now the deal has collapsed.. even with the sponsors could be in doubts, who were betting on a mclaren customer team.

would the €100 dollar fine to anything to do with it? Were McLaren subsidising any of this, or on the flip side, if they were getting money for a customer package, surely it would have softened the fine?

[jens]

:(

Is the dream of seeing 12 teams again over? (like also before 2002) Terrible news especially as Prodrive could have been a competitive team.

What other options may Prodrive have? BMW hasn't a B-team and neither do they supply with engines anyone. Renault has "too many drivers" and a B-team would be an option, where to put them.

[DazzlaF1]

:(

Is the dream of seeing 12 teams again over? (like also before 2002) Terrible news especially as Prodrive could have been a competitive team.

What other options may Prodrive have? BMW hasn't a B-team and neither do they supply with engines anyone. Renault has "too many drivers" and a B-team would be an option, where to put them.

If there were another option, then BMW might not be a bad shout and if they went with them, i would'nt be surprised if Timo Glock were to fill one of the race seats.

[trumperZ06]

:D Well Max scuttled that deal !!!

;) Now we may see the Aston Martin's returning to ALMS and competing, once again, with Corvette's mighty C-6R'S Next year !!!

Hey Ron & Mercedes... LMP1 has room for additional entries too !!!

We already have Porsche & Acura in LMP2!!!

Can Toyota be very far behind?

:dozey: Max may be the best friend we have... for true Sports Car racing !!!

:s mokin:

[TOgoFASTER]

I have read the Prodrive deal was projected in the area of 100 million to McLaren.
Friend and foe of Max may well have had a huge impact on this not coming together, ever.
Though I think SOD's British superteam deal has always had more to it than the Prodrive/McLaren link up. ;)
Where do those rumours come from? LOL

[Buzz Lightyear]

Here is a thought...

Maybe this is big McLaren 2 fingers to Max...?

Stuff your customer team! We dont even need the money....

very plauseable...

[Hawkmoon]

Before you all go blaming Mosely for scuppering the deal, shouldn't it be noted that Dennis said that the reason for the deal being called off is the legal challenge Williams have against Prodrive's entry?

Oh, wait a minute, Ron Dennis can't lie straight in bed! I forgot! My bad. Carry on.....

:D

[tinchote]

Somehow the news doesn't surprise me. It was getting fairly late in the year to have everything ready to run a race next March. These details like cars, engines, drivers, computers, logistics, etc., etc.

[TOgoFASTER]

^ Now that I agree with. Much too late in the game to be supplied and a team formed that could be looked at as competent.
I've always looked at the Prodrive inclusion to be more about a freindly pawn in a much bigger game of that time frame.

[truefan72]

The whole thing is a shame and a more of a black mark on the formula 1 administration for their shrotsightedness with regard to prodrive,

Don't get me wrong I blame prodrive as well for not getting their act together much earlier.

As I recall there were several other valid candidates for the 12th team slot that seemed to have been better prepared than prodrive. The only thing they had going for them was David Richards and his former connections. What exactly does that mean?

Now there are 3 other outfits that would have been ready to race and are sitting on the sidelines wondering WTF going on.

The entire year, I've been wondering whats going on with prodrive. No driver announcement, no nothing, what the heck were they exactly doing over there?

[ArrowsFA1]

Before you all go blaming Mosely for scuppering the deal, shouldn't it be noted that Dennis said that the reason for the deal being called off is the legal challenge Williams have against Prodrive's entry?
Exactly. This report (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63019) says there is a hearing on the 24th October to decide on the legality of Prodrive's entry to F1. Dave Richards has said (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62449) that "there are lots of issues surrounding the validity of the Concorde Agreement."

Not knowing whether or not your team can enter F1 or not until October is a major stumbling block, both for Prodrive and for anyone wishing to supply them with a car.

This whole customer car issue is a mess :dozey:

[Flat.tyres]

The whole thing is a shame and a more of a black mark on the formula 1 administration for their shrotsightedness with regard to prodrive,

Don't get me wrong I blame prodrive as well for not getting their act together much earlier.

As I recall there were several other valid candidates for the 12th team slot that seemed to have been better prepared than prodrive. The only thing they had going for them was David Richards and his former connections. What exactly does that mean?

Now there are 3 other outfits that would have been ready to race and are sitting on the sidelines wondering WTF going on.

The entire year, I've been wondering whats going on with prodrive. No driver announcement, no nothing, what the heck were they exactly doing over there?

Pro-drive were ready. Everything fundemental was sorted ages ago with just the formal go ahead remaining.

Because of the shambles with the Concord agreement, the paperwork couldn't be signed otherwise Dave could have rolled up next year to find his cars were useless.

Would you invest millions in a team where you don't even know you will be allowed to race?

Williams had to bring the case as they really had no option. Nothing had been settled and everyone needed to know the truth.

This is poor management from the Bernie / Max roadshow again.

[Dave B]

It smacks of bumbling by the FIA when they should have clarified the customer car rules once and for all. Sadly we've got to wait for Williams' hearing.

Prodrive were known to be talking to two other teams apart from McLaren, although Prodrive still say they're hoping to recommence negotiations once the matter is settled.

[ioan]

Let's not put this on the FIA's back.
They need everyone to agree in order to have a new Concorde Agreement.
Williams clearly are not favorable to the customer teams rule, at least not without some kind of monetary incentive going their way. And as soon as we get to probs about money we also get into Bernie's field not the FIA's.

So why is the FIA's fault that there is no new Concorde Agreement to this date?

Here's an update with Prodrive's view of the situation:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63189

[Flat.tyres]

Let's not put this on the FIA's back.
They need everyone to agree in order to have a new Concorde Agreement.
Williams clearly are not favorable to the customer teams rule, at least not without some kind of monetary incentive going their way. And as soon as we get to probs about money we also get into Bernie's field not the FIA's.

So why is the FIA's fault that there is no new Concorde Agreement to this date?

Here's an update with Prodrive's view of the situation:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63189

You are partly right :s hock:

The FIA are responsible for defining and (allegedly) enforcing sporting and technical regulations so as long as a team complies with these and are admitted into the championship, then they can race.

Problem is that the FIA and FOM (FOH and AP) are so incestious that it's impossible to differentiate and the biggest smoke and mirrors agreement in the history of sport, the Concord agreement, is by definition, largly unworkable. There is no clear objective with a number of teams that cvant stand each other and are deeply distrustful of agreement.

More and more I am coming to the opinion that F1 has reached a critical mass and will explode over the next couple of years. Perhaps it would have been better for the breakaway to have happened when it had the chance.

[SGWilko]

Let's not put this on the FIA's back.
They need everyone to agree in order to have a new Concorde Agreement.
Williams clearly are not favorable to the customer teams rule, at least not without some kind of monetary incentive going their way. And as soon as we get to probs about money we also get into Bernie's field not the FIA's.

So why is the FIA's fault that there is no new Concorde Agreement to this date?

Here's an update with Prodrive's view of the situation:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63189

Bernie = Money, but as I understand it, it is the FIA and their convoluted rules that are the problem.

Max will no doubt do his usual hissy fit and blame it on the teams.....

Truth is, the FIA played hardball with the teams, the teams tried to play the FIA at their own game, but then one was offered a carrot in the form of a BIG wad of cash. That left the GPMA pretty much dead in the water.

Now, Max needs to sort out a new Concorde agreement, but looky here, his other rift (the one with Stoddy) meant that he essentially 'allowed' customer teams this year (see STR and SA) putting a lot of the independents noses out of joint.

So now, we have the Colles arbitration, and the Williams legal thing to get through.

All this because an 'apperently very clever' lawyer (MM) has let personal stuff taint his judgement, and he has done it over and over again.

So now, Prodrive, a VERY respected company, is currently sailing up an FIA sanctioned waterway, but the FIA have neglected to supply paddles.

It is truly shambolic.

[Flat.tyres]

Commercials = Bernie
Technical = Max

Williams not happy with commercials > Max who appeals Prodrive entry????

WTF is going on in this circus?

It's not because Pro and McL would be side by side and benefit from joint real estate in the Pits is it? Currently, McLaren are due to lose half of their pitch because of the ruling but this arrangement will nullify the impact of this a great deal.

The Witch Hunt continues but now it's just basic discrimination (opinion)

[BDunnell]

Bernie = Money, but as I understand it, it is the FIA and their convoluted rules that are the problem.

Max will no doubt do his usual hissy fit and blame it on the teams.....

Truth is, the FIA played hardball with the teams, the teams tried to play the FIA at their own game, but then one was offered a carrot in the form of a BIG wad of cash. That left the GPMA pretty much dead in the water.

Now, Max needs to sort out a new Concorde agreement, but looky here, his other rift (the one with Stoddy) meant that he essentially 'allowed' customer teams this year (see STR and SA) putting a lot of the independents noses out of joint.

So now, we have the Colles arbitration, and the Williams legal thing to get through.

All this because an 'apperently very clever' lawyer (MM) has let personal stuff taint his judgement, and he has done it over and over again.

So now, Prodrive, a VERY respected company, is currently sailing up an FIA sanctioned waterway, but the FIA have neglected to supply paddles.

It is truly shambolic.

If this is the reason — and it's certainly credible — could it mean that there's a case for keeping Super Aguri and Toro Rosso out of F1 unless they design their own cars? It could be one conclusion.

[SGWilko]

If this is the reason — and it's certainly credible — could it mean that there's a case for keeping Super Aguri and Toro Rosso out of F1 unless they design their own cars? It could be one conclusion.

Well, yes and no.

STR and RB have circumvented the issue by claiming the Intellectual rights to the 'shared' car, are neither owned by STR or RB, thus, they can both use the same tub.

Then I recall another team or individual (was it Colles) turned up with a blueprint that showed parts on the STR were designed by RB. Not spying were they? Uh oh, I hear a storm brewing......

I am not entirely sure how SA got away with it, but lest we forget, the SA is last years Honda..........

All in all, one thing is for sure, it's a blooming mess, that be right.

[Valve Bounce]

IT's all about Money: "This is required to determine the long term rights of participation in the championship and eligibility to FOM income, on an equitable basis for all participants in Formula One.

[RS]

I must say I'm not-so-secretly pleased about this, to see this so-called team on the sidelines.

I heard at one point the cars wouldn't even go anywhere near the Prodrive facility and would simply be rented from McLaren.

Prodrive are respected motorsport engineering company, why not do it properly? Then they wouldn't be in this mess.

[markabilly]

First step to clean up the FIA mess, as I suggested elsewhere, is to open up competition and NOT be selling a limited number of franchises to certain teams.......I always though the old way with the ford cosworth V-8, and any and all chassies be they made or bought, was the way to put it back to the drivers...but whatever...

[VkmSpouge]

The team isn't dead yet, after all Super Aguri came together with a whole lot less time than Prodrive have. Hopefully this dispute over customer cars can be settled quickly so that Prodrive have something firm to plan on.

[Easy Drifter]

I am beginning to think this whole season is the pilot for a new hit soap opera 'As the stomach churns.' :D

[SGWilko]

First step to clean up the FIA mess, as I suggested elsewhere, is to open up competition and NOT be selling a limited number of franchises to certain teams.......I always though the old way with the ford cosworth V-8, and any and all chassies be they made or bought, was the way to put it back to the drivers...but whatever...

Good point. Pre qualifying would be good to see again. But consideration must be had to keeping the no-hopers out of F1........

[Cozzie]

Don't rule David Richards out yet, I'm sure he has a trick up his sleeve!