"Classic" Points Standings

[RaceFanStan]

NASCAR says everyone loves the Chase .....
I'm sure there has to be some people who don't like it .....

after Chase Race #3 and/or 2007 Nextel Cup Race #29 @ Kansas
-- Chase Standings (Adjusted) --- --- “Classic” Standings (Actual)
01. Jimmie Johnson . 5506 points --- 01. Jeff Gordon ..... 4309 points
02. Jeff Gordon ...... 5500 points --- 02. Tony Stewart .. 3896 points
03. Clint Bowyer .... 5492 points --- 03. Jimmie Johnson . 3785 points
04. Tony Stewart .. 5389 points --- 04. Carl Edwards .... 3741 points
05. Kevin Harvick ... 5380 points --- 05. Denny Hamlin ... 3738 points
06. Kyle Busch ...... 5370 points --- 06. Matt Kenseth ... 3707 points
07. Carl Edwards ... 5364 points --- 07. Clint Bowyer ..... 3671 points
08. Martin Truex Jr. 5348 points --- 08. Kyle Busch ....... 3662 points
09. Kurt Busch ...... 5329 points --- 09. Jeff Burton ...... 3638 points
10. Jeff Burton ...... 5320 points --- 10. Kevin Harvick .. 3525 points
11. Matt Kenseth .. 5287 points --- 11. Kurt Busch ...... 3469 points
12. Denny Hamlin .. 5258 points --- 12. Martin Truex Jr. 3398 points

There might even be some drivers who like the actual points better ..... ;)

[electron]

the chase ... the "debris caution" within the championship. Hey, why don't they do a 6 car green-white-checker with the last three races?
I still think the Chase is Bull.

And thats not only because I root for the 24.

[Mark in Oshawa]

After seeing the difference, I like the Chase now.....

[Sparky1329]

NASCAR says everyone loves the Chase .....
I'm sure there has to be some people who don't like it .....

-- Chase Standings (Adjusted) --- --- “Classic” Standings (Actual)
01. Jimmie Johnson . 5506 points --- 01. Jeff Gordon ..... 4309 points
02. Jeff Gordon ...... 5500 points --- 02. Tony Stewart .. 3896 points
03. Clint Bowyer .... 5492 points --- 03. Jimmie Johnson . 3785 points
04. Tony Stewart .. 5389 points --- 04. Carl Edwards .... 3741 points
05. Kevin Harvick ... 5380 points --- 05. Denny Hamlin ... 3738 points
06. Kyle Busch ...... 5370 points --- 06. Matt Kenseth ... 3707 points
07. Carl Edwards ... 5364 points --- 07. Clint Bowyer ..... 3671 points
08. Martin Truex Jr. 5348 points --- 08. Kyle Busch ....... 3662 points
09. Kurt Busch ...... 5329 points --- 09. Jeff Burton ...... 3638 points
10. Jeff Burton ...... 5320 points --- 10. Kevin Harvick .. 3525 points
11. Matt Kenseth .. 5287 points --- 11. Kurt Busch ...... 3469 points
12. Denny Hamlin .. 5258 points --- 12. Martin Truex Jr. 3398 points

There might even be some drivers who like the actual points better ..... ;)

At least the Classic standings are real.

[Lee Roy]

Anyone go back and calculate the points standings using the various points systems used before the "classic" one?

[Jonesi]

After seeing the difference, I like the Chase now.....

Try the classic system with the drivers worst say 4 (10%) races removed.

[Alexamateo]

Try the classic system with the drivers worst say 4 (10%) races removed.

Jonesi does that eliminate the "bad luck factor"?

edit: checking 1996 when Jeff Gordon and Labonte had identical stats except for wins (21 top 5, 24 top ten)

Jeff (10 wins), wins over Terry(2 wins) that way and IMO would have been a more deserving champion.

[call_me_andrew]

Here's an article from the magical land of 2003 that shows how well boring, old, consistent, Matt Kensith would have done with point systems that put more emphasis on winning.

http://www.nascar.com/2003/news/opinion/smith/08/14/mkenseth_smith/index.html

[RaceFanStan]

after Chase Race #4 and/or 2007 Nextel Cup Race #30 @ Talladega
--- Chase Standings (Adjusted) ------- “Classic” Standings (Actual) ---
01. Jeff Gordon ......... 5690 points --- 01. Jeff Gordon ......... 4499 points
02. Jimmie Johnson ... 5681 points --- 02. Tony Stewart ..... 4043 points
03. Clint Bowyer ....... 5627 points --- 03. Jimmie Johnson ... 3960 points
04. Tony Stewart ..... 5536 points --- 04. Denny Hamlin ...... 3903 points
05. Carl Edwards ..... 5490 points --- 05. Carl Edwards ....... 3867 points
06. Kevin Harvick ..... 5488 points --- 06. Clint Bowyer ........ 3806 points
07. Kurt Busch ......... 5480 points --- 07. Matt Kenseth ...... 3797 points
08. Kyle Busch ......... 5430 points --- 08. Kyle Busch .......... 3722 points
09. Denny Hamlin ..... 5423 points --- 09. Jeff Burton ......... 3677 points
10. Martin Truex Jr ... 5390 points --- 10. Kevin Harvick ..... 3633 points
11. Matt Kenseth ..... 5377 points --- 11. Kurt Busch ......... 3620 points
12. Jeff Burton ......... 5359 points --- 12. Martin Truex Jr ... 3440 points

[muggle not]

RFS, i am anxious to see the Classic point standings after Lowes. Should be interesting.

[harvick#1]

At least the Classic standings are real.

It is what it is, Brian France is a F-up and needs to leave along with POS Sprint and Nationwide

[RaceFanStan]

after Chase Race #5 and/or 2007 Nextel Cup Race #31 @ Charlotte
--CHASE Points Standings (Adjusted) / “CLASSIC” Points Standings (Actual)
01. 5880 points --- Jeff Gordon ---------- 01. 4689 points --- Jeff Gordon
02. 5812 points --- Jimmie Johnson ----- 02. 4189 points --- Tony Stewart
03. 5802 points --- Clint Bowyer ---------03. 4091 points --- Jimmie Johnson
04. 5682 points --- Tony Stewart ------- 04. 4022 points --- Carl Edwards
05. 5640 points --- Carl Edwards ------- 05. 4006 points --- Denny Hamlin
06. 5600 points --- Kyle Busch ---------- 06. 3981 points --- Clint Bowyer
07. 5565 points --- Kurt Busch ---------- 07. 3892 points --- Kyle Busch
08. 5552 points --- Kevin Harvick ------- 08. 3863 points --- Matt Kenseth
09. 5531 points --- Denny Hamlin -------09. 3837 points --- Jeff Burton
10. 5514 points --- Jeff Burton ---------- 10. 3710 points --- Kurt Busch
11. 5502 points --- Martin Truex Jr ----- 11. 3697 points --- Kevin Harvick
12. 5438 points --- Matt Kenseth ------ 12. 3552 points --- Martin Truex Jr
13. 3527 points --- Dale Earnhardt Jr - 13. 3527 points --- Dale Earnhardt Jr
14. 3405 points --- Casey Mears ------- 14. 3405 points --- Casey Mears
15. 3390 points --- Ryan Newman ----- 15. 3390 points --- Ryan Newman
16. 3385 points --- Greg Biffle ---------- 16. 3385 points --- Greg Biffle

[RaceFanStan]

after Chase Race #6 and/or 2007 Nextel Cup Race #32 @ Martinsville
--CHASE Points Standings (Adjusted) / “CLASSIC” Points Standings (Actual)
01. 6055 points---Jeff Gordon ------------ 01. 4864 points---Jeff Gordon
02. 6002 points---Jimmie Johnson ------- 02. 4313 points---Tony Stewart
03. 5940 points---Clint Bowyer ---------- 03. 4281 points---Jimmie Johnson
04. 5806 points---Tony Stewart --------- 04. 4156 points---Denny Hamlin
05. 5767 points---Carl Edwards --------- 05. 4152 points---Carl Edwards
06. 5765 points---Kyle Busch ------------ 06. 4119 points---Clint Bowyer
07. 5686 points---Kevin Harvick --------- 07. 4057 points---Kyle Busch
08. 5681 points---Denny Hamlin -------- 08. 4018 points---Matt Kenseth
09. 5649 points---Jeff Burton ------------ 09. 3969 points---Jeff Burton
10. 5635 points---Kurt Busch------------- 10. 3831 points---Kevin Harvick
11. 5608 points---Martin Truex Jr ------- 11. 3780 points---Kurt Busch
12. 5593 points---Matt Kenseth -------- 12. 3758 points---Martin Truex Jr
13. 3626 points---Dale Earnhardt Jr --- 13. 3626 points---Dale Earnhardt Jr
14. 3560 points---Ryan Newman ------- 14. 3560 points---Ryan Newman
15. 3531 points---Greg Biffle ------------ 15. 3531 points---Greg Biffle
16. 3508 points---Casey Mears --------- 16. 3508 points---Casey Mears

Some big winners using "Classic" scoring :
Tony Stewart jumps from 4th (Chase) to 2nd (Classic)
Denny Hamlin jumps from 8th (Chase) to 4th (Classic)
Matt Kenseth jumps from 12th (Chase) to 8th (Classic)

Some big losers using "Classic" scoring :
Clint Bowyer drops from 3rd (Chase) to 6th (Classic)
Kevin Harvick drops from 7th (Chase) to 10th (Classic)

[muggle not]

Good thread, interesting thread.

Jeff Gordon has over a 1000 point lead over Harvick and has dominated the season. :)

[harvick#1]

when you take a lot at most of Harvick's races, you can only laugh them off how much bad luck hes had

he should easily have well over 500 or so more points from just bad luck

but this is what it is, there is no more 36 season standing schedule, it ended in 2003, there is the playoff now and those classic standing don't mean anything, because nascar doesn't use them anymore, and prolly never will again

[RaceFanStan]

Yeah, the young bucks may embrace the Chase ...

but to us long-time fans the classic points mean something ...
the classic points system was used when :
Jeff Gordon won the most races & TOOK 4 championships by total domination ... (1995-1997-1998-2001)

Bobby Labonte (2000) & Terry Labonte (1984-1996) masterfully used consistancy to win championships ...

Dale Earnhardt AGGRESIVELY drove for every point to be "the man" 7 times ...
(1980-1986-1987-1990-1991-1993-1994)

Alan Kulwicki did the math to edge Bill Elliott by 10 points in the LAST race of the season ... (1992)

Rusty Wallace finally got his well-deserved championship ... (1989)
(several times Rusty Wallace won the most races but fell short for the championship)

Bill Elliott won the most races & edged Rusty Wallace by only 24 points ... (1988)

Darrell Waltrip raced with his ability & his intelligence to win the championship 3 times ... (1981-1982-1985)
The Champions I listed above raced EVERY race to the best of their ability & used all their cars could give. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/1ua.gif

The CLASSIC Points were for the ENTIRE season, not a phony 10 race "winner take all" senario ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[muggle not]

Yeah, the young bucks may embrace the Chase ...

but to us long-time fans the classic points mean something ...
the classic points system was used when :
Jeff Gordon won the most races & TOOK 4 championships by total domination ... (1995-1997-1998-2001)

Bobby Labonte (2000) & Terry Labonte (1984-1996) masterfully used consistancy to win championships ...

Dale Earnhardt AGGRESIVELY drove for every point to be "the man" 7 times ...
(1980-1986-1987-1990-1991-1993-1994)

Alan Kulwicki did the math to edge Bill Elliott by 10 points in the LAST race of the season ... (1992)

Rusty Wallace finally got his well-deserved championship ... (1989)
(several times Rusty Wallace won the most races but fell short for the championship)

Bill Elliott won the most races & edged Rusty Wallace by only 24 points ... (1988)

Darrell Waltrip raced with his ability & his intelligence to win the championship 3 times ... (1981-1982-1985)
The Champions I listed above raced EVERY race to the best of their ability & used all their cars could give. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/1ua.gif

The CLASSIC Points were for the ENTIRE season, not a phony 10 race "winner take all" senario ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
Here! Here!

[tstran17_88]

Bobby Labonte (2000) & Terry Labonte (1984-1996) masterfully used consistancy to win championships ... *cough* *cough* Matt Kenseth *cough* in 2003 too! *cough* *cough* :cheese:

[harvick#1]

*cough* *cough* Matt Kenseth *cough* in 2003 too! *cough* *cough* :cheese:

your driver was the main reason of the stupid chase :p :

[call_me_andrew]

*cough* *cough* Matt Kenseth *cough* in 2003 too! *cough* *cough* :cheese:

your driver was the main reason of the stupid chase :p :

As I have already stated, Kenseth would have won with any point system.

http://www.nascar.com/2003/news/opinion/smith/08/14/mkenseth_smith/index.html

Don't make me post that link 3 times in one thread!

[Sparky1329]

Yeah, the young bucks may embrace the Chase ...

but to us long-time fans the classic points mean something ...
the classic points system was used when :
Jeff Gordon won the most races & TOOK 4 championships by total domination ... (1995-1997-1998-2001)

Bobby Labonte (2000) & Terry Labonte (1984-1996) masterfully used consistancy to win championships ...

Dale Earnhardt AGGRESIVELY drove for every point to be "the man" 7 times ...
(1980-1986-1987-1990-1991-1993-1994)

Alan Kulwicki did the math to edge Bill Elliott by 10 points in the LAST race of the season ... (1992)

Rusty Wallace finally got his well-deserved championship ... (1989)
(several times Rusty Wallace won the most races but fell short for the championship)

Bill Elliott won the most races & edged Rusty Wallace by only 24 points ... (1988)

Darrell Waltrip raced with his ability & his intelligence to win the championship 3 times ... (1981-1982-1985)
The Champions I listed above raced EVERY race to the best of their ability & used all their cars could give. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/1ua.gif

The CLASSIC Points were for the ENTIRE season, not a phony 10 race "winner take all" senario ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

A-frickin-men! :up:

[muggle not]

As I have already stated, Kenseth would have won with any point system.

http://www.nascar.com/2003/news/opinion/smith/08/14/mkenseth_smith/index.html

Don't make me post that link 3 times in one thread!
who gives a rats azz about the O.W. racing series.
btw, I am curious. How would Kenseth have done under the "Nascar" point system currently in place. Now that might be interesting.

[tstran17_88]

who gives a rats azz about the O.W. racing series.
btw, I am curious. How would Kenseth have done under the "Nascar" point system currently in place. Now that might be interesting.He is in 12th place with the current point system.

Or are we referring to 2003 using the current point system? You need to be a tad more specific.

My guess is Ryan Newman would be the 2003 champion using the 2007 points system, but it’s already been written into numerous articles when the ‘Chase’ was first announced that Jimmie would have beaten Matt for the championship in 2003 if they used the ‘new’ system in place in 2004.

You find this interesting? Or do you just feel like beating a dead horse further into the ground? :rolleyes:

[tstran17_88]

your driver was the main reason of the stupid chase :p :Talk to me when your driver has a Cup championship! :burn:



(Sorry, I'm fired up now!) :laugh:

[call_me_andrew]

who gives a rats azz about the O.W. racing series.

I guess the answer would be anyone who cares enough to notice that it proves Kenseth deserved the championship.

[muggle not]

There are only 2 point systems that count. The Classic system and the current Nascar system of the Chase. Where would Kenseth have finished using the Chase system.

[Erki]

rank driver 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 Bonus TOTAL
1 Johnson 5035 180 142 61 146 165 170 165 170 170 165 40 6609
2 Gordon 5030 106 155 155 155 155 180 180 146 97 155 40 6554 -55
3 Newman 5025 138 180 160 180 170 155 76 165 155 52 35 6491 -118
4 Junior 5045 155 52 170 109 138 160 150 180 124 91 45 6419 -190
5 Harvick 5040 124 160 146 150 134 146 103 61 118 170 35 6387 -222
6 Kenseth 5050 146 138 64 55 142 124 130 150 160 34 15 6208 -401
7 BL 5020 115 70 130 112 150 40 155 55 142 180 25 6194 -415
8 TL 5010 109 103 97 115 109 150 64 73 127 118 15 6090 -519
9 Busch 5015 118 49 150 43 40 46 142 160 112 55 30 5960 -649
10 Waltrip 5005 85 37 180 46 121 85 49 155 52 40 10 5865 -744


Tony Stewart 11th. :|

[RaceFanStan]

There are only 2 point systems that count.
The Classic system and the current Nascar system of the Chase.
Where would Kenseth have finished using the Chase system.
What we got @ the end of 2003 :
01. 5022 points ~ Matt Kenseth
02. 4932 points ~ Jimmie Johnson
03. 4815 points ~ Dale Earnhardt Jr
04. 4785 points ~ Jeff Gordon
05. 4770 points ~ Kevin Harvick
06. 4711 points ~ Ryan Newman
07. 4549 points ~ Tony Stewart
08. 4377 points ~ Bobby Labonte
09. 4303 points ~ Bill Elliott
10. 4162 points ~ Terry Labonte
11. 4150 points ~ Kurt Busch
12. 4109 points ~ Jeff Burton
13. 3965 points ~ Jamie McMurray
14. 3950 points ~ Rusty Wallace
15. 3934 points ~ Michael Waltrip
16. 3856 points ~ Robby Gordon
17. 3769 points ~ Mark Martin
18. 3745 points ~ Sterling Marlin
19. 3736 points ~ Jeremy Mayfield
20. 3696 points ~ Greg Biffle

NOTE : 2007 Chase Rules
The top 12 drivers in the points after Race 26 will qualify for the Chase
All 12 drivers will have their point totals re-set to 5,000 points
Each will then receive a 10-point bonus for each race victory they had during the first 26 races
I also used the 2007 bonus for race wins. :D

after Race 26 @ Richmond Points Standings
using 2007 rules ~ more points for a win
01. 3874 points ~ 1 win ~ Matt Kenseth
02. 3456 points ~ 1 win ~ Dale Earnhardt Jr
03. 3433 points ~ 1 win ~ Kevin Harvick
04. 3383 points ~ 2 wins ~ Jimmie Johnson
05. 3325 points ~ 6 wins ~ Ryan Newman
06. 3281 points ~ 1 win ~ Jeff Gordon
07. 3245 points ~ 4 wins ~ Kurt Busch
08. 3218 points ~ 1 win ~ Bobby Labonte
09. 3092 points ~ 1 win ~ Terry Labonte
10. 3089 points ~ 1 win ~ Michael Waltrip
11. 3028 points ~ 1 win ~ Tony Stewart
12. 3010 points ~ 2 wins ~ Robby Gordon

Non-Chase Drivers Who Won a Race BEFORE the Chase :
Dale Jarrett ~ 1 win
Ricky Craven ~ 1 win
Joe Nemechek ~ 1 win
Greg Biffle ~ 1 win

Chase Points Standings after Race 26 @ Richmond
using 2007 rules ~ the Top 12 in Points are Locked-In
01. 5060 points ~ Ryan Newman
02. 5040 points ~ Kurt Busch
03. 5020 points ~ Jimmie Johnson
04. 5020 points ~ Robby Gordon
05. 5010 points ~ Matt Kenseth
06. 5010 points ~ Dale Earnhardt Jr
07. 5010 points ~ Kevin Harvick
08. 5010 points ~ Jeff Gordon
09. 5010 points ~ Bobby Labonte
10. 5010 points ~ Terry Labonte
11. 5010 points ~ Michael Waltrip
12. 5010 points ~ Tony Stewart

Ryan Newman would have began the Chase with the points lead
Matt Kenseth would have started in 5th !!!

What we would have had @ Homestead in 2003 IF it had been a Chase season :
(Wins are for DURING the Chase)
01. 6599 points ~ 1 win ~ Jimmie Johnson
02. 6546 points ~ 1 win ~ Tony Stewart
03. 6544 points ~ 2 wins ~ Jeff Gordon
04. 6536 points ~ 2 wins ~ Ryan Newman
05. 6389 points ~ 1 win ~ Dale Earnhardt Jr
06. 6357 points ~ 0 wins ~ Kevin Harvick
07. 6189 points ~ 1 win ~ Bobby Labonte
08. 6168 points ~ 0 wins ~ Matt Kenseth
09. 6090 points ~ 0 wins ~ Terry Labonte
10. 5985 points ~ 0 wins ~ Kurt Busch
11. 5886 points ~ 0 wins ~ Robby Gordon
12. 5875 points ~ 1 win ~ Michael Waltrip
13. 4313 points ~ 1 win ~ Bill Elliott
14. 4109 points ~ 0 wins ~ Jeff Burton
15. 3965 points ~ 0 wins ~ Jamie McMurray
16. 3950 points ~ 0 wins ~ Rusty Wallace
17. 3769 points ~ 0 wins ~ Mark Martin
18. 3745 points ~ 0 wins ~ Sterling Marlin
19. 3736 points ~ 0 wins ~ Jeremy Mayfield
20. 3706 points ~ 0 wins ~ Greg Biffle

Race by Race Break-Down :
--- ~ DRIVER ~ Begin ~ 27 ~ 28 ~ 29 ~ 30 ~ 31 ~ 32 ~ 33 ~ 34 ~ 35 ~ 36 ~ Total
01. Jimmie Johnson 5020 190 142 066 151 170 170 170 175 175 170 6599
02. Tony Stewart 5010 103 170 165 160 190 170 180 109 138 151 6546
03. Jeff Gordon 5010 111 160 165 155 155 195 190 146 097 160 6544
04. Ryan Newman 5060 143 190 160 190 175 155 081 170 160 052 6536
05. Earnhardt Jr 5010 165 057 175 114 143 165 155 190 124 091 6389
06. Kevin Harvick 5010 129 170 151 150 134 151 108 061 118 175 6357
07. Bobby Labonte 5010 115 070 135 117 155 040 160 055 142 190 6189
08. Matt Kenseth 5010 151 143 069 055 142 124 130 150 160 034 6168
09. Terry Labonte 5010 109 103 102 115 109 155 064 073 127 123 6090
10. Kurt Busch 5040 118 049 155 048 040 051 147 170 112 055 5985
11. Robby Gordon 5020 105 094 132 088 049 055 100 067 103 073 5886
12. Michael Waltrip 5010 090 037 190 046 121 085 049 155 052 040 5875

The 2003 Champion Matt Kenseth would have finished in 8th !!! :eek:

[Erki]

Whooooops. :p

Btw, I didn't forget the laps led bonus points. Those are all in the "bonus" column. I didn't bother with a full-scale top-end excel workbook so I just added those bonuses up. Maybe I even mesed something up. :eek:

And I forgot to do it 2007-style. :\

[nigelred5]

Meh, they all race for points, so who knows how differently anyone in contention would have raced. When a top 5 is as good as a win, why bother racing too hard. Give me the classic, 5 free cartons of Winstons at every race back.

[call_me_andrew]

Something amazing happened today. I had NASCAR Race Day on (because I couldn't find a good movie) and they mentioned how the "classic" points would look. It's almost as if the producers are learning to think for themselves.

I guess that means someone has to get fired now.

[harvick#1]

Whooooops. :p

Btw, I didn't forget the laps led bonus points. Those are all in the "bonus" column. I didn't bother with a full-scale top-end excel workbook so I just added those bonuses up. Maybe I even mesed something up. :eek:

And I forgot to do it 2007-style. :\

everyone stop, there are too many numbers in this thread :p :, I'm getting confused

[RaceFanStan]

after Chase Race #7 and/or 2007 Nextel Cup Race #33 @ Atlanta
--CHASE Points Standings (Adjusted) / “CLASSIC” Points Standings (Actual)
01. 6201 points --- Jeff Gordon ------------ 01. 5010 points--- Jeff Gordon
02. 6192 points --- Jimmie Johnson ------- 02. 4471 points --- Jimmie Johnson
03. 6090 points --- Clint Bowyer ---------- 03. 4386 points --- Tony Stewart
04. 5940 points --- Carl Edwards --------- 04. 4322 points --- Carl Edwards
05. 5879 points --- Tony Stewart --------- 05. 4269 points --- Clint Bowyer
06. 5873 points --- Kyle Busch ------------ 06. 4252 points --- Denny Hamlin
07. 5809 points --- Kevin Harvick --------- 07. 4178 points --- Matt Kenseth
08. 5801 points --- Jeff Burton ------------ 08. 4165 points --- Kyle Busch
09. 5782 points --- Kurt Busch ------------ 09. 4124 points --- Jeff Burton
10. 5777 points --- Denny Hamlin -------- 10. 3954 points --- Kevin Harvick
11. 5753 points --- Matt Kenseth ---------11. 3927 points --- Kurt Busch
12. 5688 points --- Martin Truex Jr -------12. 3838 points --- Martin Truex Jr
13. 3714 points --- Dale Earnhardt Jr --- 13. 3714 points --- Dale Earnhardt Jr
14. 3635 points --- Casey Mears --------- 14. 3635 points --- Casey Mears
15. 3633 points --- Greg Biffle ------------ 15. 3633 points --- Greg Biffle
16. 3612 points --- Ryan Newman ------- 16. 3612 points --- Ryan Newman

[tstran17_88]

everyone stop, there are too many numbers in this thread :p :, I'm getting confused
Stan’s just a numbers geek…he should have been an accountant! :laugh:

[muggle not]

Stan's numbers are interesting and he answered my question as to where Kenseth would have finished in 2003 under the Chase system. So, those that said he would have finished 1st under all systems are out in left field. As I previously stated. there are only 2 systems of interest in nascar, the Chase system and the Classic system. :)

Even "ole hard to understand numbers and confused" should understand that. :D

[harvick#1]

there is only one system, and thats the Chase standings, if you want classic points, stick to NBS and CTS :p :

and atleast Hornaday is atop one of those, I'm so disgusted by the HMS lovefest week-after-week, the 41 others should just go staright to pitroad and let Rusty keep blabbin about JJ and Jeffy Poo

[RaceFanStan]

Stan’s just a numbers geek…he should have been an accountant! :laugh:
I did think about being an accountant, I also looked at computer programming ...
but I was too busy having a good time being young & foolish ...
life was a party & I did celebrate being free to the best of my ability ...
an ill-spent youth to some perhaps but when I look back I have to smile. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/1ua.gif

[RaceFanStan]

after Chase Race #8 and/or 2007 Nextel Cup Race #34 @ Texas
--CHASE Points Standings (Adjusted) / “CLASSIC” Points Standings (Actual)
01. 6382 points --- Jimmie Johnson ------- 01. 5161 points --- Jeff Gordon
02. 6352 points --- Jeff Gordon ------------ 02. 4661 points --- Jimmie Johnson
03. 6201 points --- Clint Bowyer ---------- 03. 4516 points --- Tony Stewart
04. 6043 points --- Kyle Busch ------------ 04. 4407 points --- Carl Edwards
05. 6025 points --- Carl Edwards --------- 05. 4380 points --- Clint Bowyer
06. 6009 points --- Tony Stewart --------- 06. 4353 points --- Matt Kenseth
07. 5951 points --- Jeff Burton ------------ 07. 4335 points --- Kyle Busch
08. 5943 points --- Kevin Harvick --------- 08. 4333 points --- Denny Hamlin
09. 5929 points --- Kurt Busch ------------- 09. 4274 points --- Jeff Burton
10. 5928 points --- Matt Kenseth -------- 10. 4088 points --- Kevin Harvick
11. 5858 points --- Denny Hamlin -------- 11. 4074 points --- Kurt Busch
12. 5858 points --- Martin Truex Jr ------- 12. 4008 points --- Martin Truex Jr
13. 3840 points --- Dale Earnhardt Jr --- 13. 3840 points --- Dale Earnhardt Jr
14. 3772 points --- Ryan Newman ------- 14. 3772 points --- Ryan Newman
15. 3705 points --- Casey Mears --------- 15. 3705 points --- Casey Mears
16. 3697 points --- Greg Biffle ------------ 16. 3697 points --- Greg Biffle

Some points positions gained using "Classic" scoring :
Jeff Gordon has the 2007 Cup Championship LOCKED-UP using "Classic" scoring
Tony Stewart jumps from 6th (Chase) to 3rd (Classic)
Matt Kenseth jumps from 10th (Chase) to 6th (Classic)
Denny Hamlin jumps from 11th (Chase) to 8th (Classic)

Some points positions lost using "Classic" scoring :
Clint Bowyer drops from 3rd (Chase) to 5th (Classic)
Kyle Busch drops from 4th (Chase) to 7th (Classic)
Kevin Harvick drops from 8th (Chase) to 10th (Classic)

[muggle not]

Under the Classic system Bowyer is 781 points behind the leader. Yet he was a contender for the Championship until last Sunday. That is another example why the Chase is absurd.

[Erki]

Bowyer is doing quite well though. 4th in classic points is not out of reach at all. Driver of the year from the RCR camp. :)

[Lee Roy]

Hey Stan, ya gonna go back and recalculate Richard Petty's first 5 championships to see if he would have won under the "Classic Points" system?

[RaceFanStan]

after Chase Race #9 and/or 2007 Nextel Cup Race #35 @ Phoenix
--CHASE Points Standings (Adjusted) / “CLASSIC” Points Standings (Actual)
01. 6572 points --- Jimmie Johnson ------- 01. 5295 points --- Jeff Gordon
02. 6486 points --- Jeff Gordon ------------ 02. 4851 points --- Jimmie Johnson
03. 6331 points --- Clint Bowyer ---------- 03. 4676 points --- Tony Stewart
04. 6185 points --- Kyle Busch ------------ 04. 4528 points --- Matt Kenseth
05. 6169 points --- Tony Stewart --------- 05. 4510 points --- Clint Bowyer
06. 6103 points --- Matt Kenseth -------- 06. 4477 points --- Kyle Busch
07. 6093 points --- Kevin Harvick --------- 07. 4449 points --- Carl Edwards
08. 6089 points --- Jeff Burton ------------ 08. 4448 points --- Denny Hamlin
09. 6067 points --- Carl Edwards --------- 09. 4412 points --- Jeff Burton
10. 6056 points --- Kurt Busch ------------- 10. 4238 points --- Kevin Harvick
11. 6009 points --- Martin Truex Jr ------- 11. 4201 points --- Kurt Busch
12. 5973 points --- Denny Hamlin -------- 12. 4159 points --- Martin Truex Jr
13. 3932 points --- Ryan Newman ------- 13. 3932 points --- Ryan Newman
14. 3874 points --- Dale Earnhardt Jr --- 14. 3874 points --- Dale Earnhardt Jr
15. 3867 points --- Greg Biffle ------------ 15. 3867 points --- Greg Biffle
16. 3829 points --- Casey Mears --------- 16. 3829 points --- Casey Mears

Unless something weird happens @ Homestead, Jeff Gordon will lose another Championship to the Chase. :s

[RaceFanStan]

Hey Stan, ya gonna go back and recalculate Richard Petty's first 5 championships to see if he would have won under the "Classic Points" system?
Sounds like a good project for me to look into during the off-season. :D

[muggle not]

Thanks Stan for postintg both results.....Classic and Chase.

[CART]

Hi everybody,

Not the biggest Nascar supporter but I still do watch it occassionaly. I just wanted to say that it seems like BS that Jeff Gordon will be robbed of a championship with this new point system. Did anyone else "lose" a championship because of this new system?

Thanks

[muggle not]

Hi everybody,

Not the biggest Nascar supporter but I still do watch it occassionaly. I just wanted to say that it seems like BS that Jeff Gordon will be robbed of a championship with this new point system. Did anyone else "lose" a championship because of this new system?
Thanks
Yeah, this will be the 2nd that Jeff has lost due to the new system. The new system "sucks", period. It's B.S. to determine a Championship based on only 10 races out of a 36 race season. Establishing the Chase was the worse thing Brian has done in all his dumb changes to Nascar.

[Sparky1329]

Yeah, this will be the 2nd that Jeff has lost due to the new system. The new system "sucks", period. It's B.S. to determine a Championship based on only 10 races out of a 36 race season. Establishing the Chase was the worse thing Brian has done in all his dumb changes to Nascar.

Bingo! :up:

[RaceFanStan]

Yeah, this will be the 2nd that Jeff has lost due to the new system.
The new system "sucks", period.
It's B.S. to determine a Championship based on only 10 races out of a 36 race season.
Establishing the Chase was the worse thing Brian has done in all his dumb changes to Nascar.
I definately agree !!! http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/a1u.gif

[CART]

And then if my memory is correct this 'would have' been jeff gordon's 5th & 6th championship and 1 behind the record?

I believe 7 championships is the current record?

[muggle not]

And then if my memory is correct this 'would have' been jeff gordon's 5th & 6th championship and 1 behind the record?

I believe 7 championships is the current record?
You are correct on all accounts. I think that you know a little more than you are letting on. :)

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

But will the Nascar people in daytona put their hads up and say "we ****ed up"?.

I still think if you want to reward the winner more give him say 40 or 50 points more than second for the win.

[RaceFanStan]

NASCAR will NEVER admit to "f***ing up", all they ever say = "it is what it is" ...
they may tweak things but NASCAR will NEVER recognize they made a mistake ... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

As to giving the race winner 40 to 50 points more I disagree ...
things are bad enough now, that would only make things worse ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
If NASCAR did that, they might as well give the Cup to Hendrick in February ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/s.gif

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

But at least the 40-50 points over 36 races might force some teams to stop going for the top 5 or top ten and really take some chances and race hard.

Its really dont know what the best solution is. all i know is the chase isnt a true reflection of the year as a hole.

Do you think NASCAR will ever go back to the old system? or something like it. With tv ratings down and empty seats at tracks they must realize by now that something is amiss. The average person thinks it cheapens the sport.

When im down the pub with me mates and thier all talkin footy (soccer) and sport and we get onto the subject of racing, i bring up NASCAR. Then mention the chase. i always get.

"Chase?, Whats The Chase?"

I explain the Chase format. Then i get that look :confused: . like im some sort of retard and then they say "Well thats a bit f**cking stupid". That right there is NASCARs problem. Not only do the people that love the sport (and will watch whatever) dislike it but the people the chase was formulated to attract (i.e everyone else) thinks its crap as well!.

[call_me_andrew]

I still think if you want to reward the winner more give him say 40 or 50 points more than second for the win.

I don't think that's really the right way to look at it. Think of the difference between 1st and 2nd as a percentage rather than a point value. As it stands, the second place driver gets about 92% of the winning driver's points (excluding bonus points). I'd like to see that changed to 80-85%.


Do you think NASCAR will ever go back to the old system? or something like it. With tv ratings down and empty seats at tracks they must realize by now that something is amiss. The average person thinks it cheapens the sport.

I think the whole point sytem needs to be changed. I've written several alternatives (and posted some). I'll post a couple more later to gather opinions.

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

don't think that's really the right way to look at it. Think of the difference between 1st and 2nd as a percentage rather than a point value. As it stands, the second place driver gets about 92% of the winning driver's points (excluding bonus points). I'd like to see that changed to 80-85%.


I see where your coming from. 80% seems about right. it would make the gape big enought to make it worth taking some risks.

It'll be interesting to see your ideas for the point system as a whole.

[althepodracer]

NASCAR will NEVER admit to "f***ing up", all they ever say = "it is what it is" ...
they may tweak things but NASCAR will NEVER recognize they made a mistake ... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

As to giving the race winner 40 to 50 points more I disagree ...
things are bad enough now, that would only make things worse ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
If NASCAR did that, they might as well give the Cup to Hendrick in February ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/s.gif

Well said!

First of all, hi everyone, its been a while since i posted but nonetheless I have been watching the season as usual with both fascination and admiration for what these guys do each week

Also, thank you Stan for maintaining this thread it makes very interesting reading

When my brother first got me into nascar about 4 years ago I didnt really know who to follow, so as my bro had sent me a mag with profiles of all the drivers for that coming season, I decided to pick the guy with the closest birthday to mine....and that was JJ!

I think that as far is the chase is concerned it seems crazy to lock a season down to the last 10 races with the top 12 drivers, when its a 36 race season

If you cant sort it out fairly after 36 races its time to pack up

Also another little gripe, what is with the qualifying being set by owner points. Isnt that just a glorified cartel...time to ditch this perhaps?

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

The thing that gets me is all the commentaters and journo's call it a "play of system". but it isnt. If it was a true playoff system where after the first or second race numbers 12 thru say 10 were eleiminated, then after a couple more races 9th and 8th and so on. it might work.

But would a system like that make drivers more conservative, i dont know!!.

[F1boat]

A question about TV ratings - are they really that bad?

[RaceFanStan]

after Chase Race #10 and/or 2007 Nextel Cup Race #36 @ Homestead
--CHASE Points Standings (Adjusted) / “CLASSIC” Points Standings (Actual)
01. 6723 points --- Jimmie Johnson ------- 01. 5455 points --- Jeff Gordon
02. 6646 points --- Jeff Gordon ------------ 02. 5002 points --- Jimmie Johnson
03. 6377 points --- Clint Bowyer ---------- 03. 4749 points --- Tony Stewart
04. 6298 points --- Matt Kenseth -------- 04. 4723 points --- Matt Kenseth
05. 6293 points --- Kyle Busch ------------ 05. 4618 points --- Denny Hamlin
06. 6242 points --- Tony Stewart --------- 06. 4604 points --- Carl Edwards
07. 6231 points --- Kurt Busch ------------- 07. 4585 points --- Kyle Busch
08. 6231 points --- Jeff Burton ------------ 08. 4556 points --- Jeff Burton
09. 6222 points --- Carl Edwards --------- 09. 4556 points --- Clint Bowyer
10. 6199 points --- Kevin Harvick --------- 10. 4376 points --- Kurt Busch
11. 6164 points --- Martin Truex Jr ------- 11. 4344 points --- Kevin Harvick
12. 6143 points --- Denny Hamlin -------- 12. 4314 points --- Martin Truex Jr
13. 4046 points --- Ryan Newman ------- 13. 4046 points --- Ryan Newman
14. 3991 points --- Greg Biffle ------------ 14. 3991 points --- Greg Biffle
15. 3949 points --- Casey Mears --------- 15. 3949 points --- Casey Mears
16. 3929 points --- Dale Earnhardt Jr --- 16. 3929 points --- Dale Earnhardt Jr

Jeff Gordon has lost another Cup Championship to the dumb Chase. :s

[muggle not]

after Chase Race #10 and/or 2007 Nextel Cup Race #36 @ Homestead
--CHASE Points Standings (Adjusted) / “CLASSIC” Points Standings (Actual)
01. 6723 points --- Jimmie Johnson ------- 01. 5455 points --- Jeff Gordon
02. 6646 points --- Jeff Gordon ------------ 02. 5002 points --- Jimmie Johnson
03. 6377 points --- Clint Bowyer ---------- 03. 4749 points --- Tony Stewart
04. 6298 points --- Matt Kenseth -------- 04. 4723 points --- Matt Kenseth
05. 6293 points --- Kyle Busch ------------ 05. 4618 points --- Denny Hamlin
06. 6242 points --- Tony Stewart --------- 06. 4604 points --- Carl Edwards
07. 6231 points --- Kurt Busch ------------- 07. 4585 points --- Kyle Busch
08. 6231 points --- Jeff Burton ------------ 08. 4556 points --- Jeff Burton
09. 6222 points --- Carl Edwards --------- 09. 4556 points --- Clint Bowyer
10. 6199 points --- Kevin Harvick --------- 10. 4376 points --- Kurt Busch
11. 6164 points --- Martin Truex Jr ------- 11. 4344 points --- Kevin Harvick
12. 6143 points --- Denny Hamlin -------- 12. 4314 points --- Martin Truex Jr
13. 4046 points --- Ryan Newman ------- 13. 4046 points --- Ryan Newman
14. 3991 points --- Greg Biffle ------------ 14. 3991 points --- Greg Biffle
15. 3949 points --- Casey Mears --------- 15. 3949 points --- Casey Mears
16. 3929 points --- Dale Earnhardt Jr --- 16. 3929 points --- Dale Earnhardt Jr

Jeff Gordon has lost another Cup Championship to the dumb Chase. :s
It is sad what Brian has done to the Cup Championship.

F1, the TV ratings are still very good compared to other Sports. However, they have dropped approx. 21% in the last 2 seasons which is a huge loss of fans.

[F1boat]

It is sad what Brian has done to the Cup Championship.

F1, the TV ratings are still very good compared to other Sports. However, they have dropped approx. 21% in the last 2 seasons which is a huge loss of fans.

Thank you. Are sports generally losing fans, or it is just NASCAR?

[harvick#1]

well Nascar is just getting worse.

Bruton Smith will soon control Nascar and make it a "Cookie Cutter only" series.

Bristol is now a dump, with boring racing (all they did now is move the line to the top) and everyone who said that Bristol was better, there was maybe 1 position change in the top 10 in the final 100 laps (yep better racing indeed)

the Pre-race shows turns alot of people off like me, when they come on TV, the cars should already be fired and ready to go, they don't have to spend an hour and a half talking about nonsense

someone has to put duct tape over Rusty's mouth :p :

I also think that Football is losing fans by all these nonsense challanges, the game sometimes drags on now by these things, Baseball (thats just downright a snooze fest) Hockey (ever since the lockout, it hasn't been the same)

[muggle not]

Thank you. Are sports generally losing fans, or it is just NASCAR?
I think in general TV viewing is down a little in the Pro Sports category. However, Nascar has declined 'big time" with the viewers. College Sports may have held their own or even increased.

Harvick, I agree that Bristol wasn't as good as previous races. Hopefully next year will be better and maybe they didn't ruin the track with the new paving.

As far as all that pre-race nonsense, do as I do. Don't turn the TV on until race time.

I think that Rusty's days are numbered.

yeah, Bruton sure doesn't cae about the quality of racing, omly the big bucks.

[Sparky1329]

I don't mind having a pre-race show but it doesn't need to be longer than a half hour. SPEED's Race Day program shows some interesting interviews but if they don't have enough features to do a two hour show cut it to an hour. Three hours on Sunday was crazy.

I hope Rusty's days are numbered. He is horrible in the booth. DJ and Kyle run rings around him without even breaking a sweat. I wish they'd put Doc back in the pits where he was great. Allen Bestwick's talents are being wasted on pit road so swapping them should be considered IMHO. And PLEASE get Mouth Waltrip out of the CTS booth.

[harvick#1]

also though, I for my self basically change the channel once Wallace starts talking about his awesome "draft tracker", then Tim Brewer talks about the same stuff on the race cars, oh yeah, then they tell us whats the difference between loose and tight. Its like Fox and ESPN try to dumb down the audience who don't know about racing, then the road courses hit and the announcers like Wallace and WAltrip try and act like the drivers have never raced a road course before

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

Im hoping DJ gets in the booth full time next year. Rusty cant string a coherent sentence together. DJ on the other hand also new when to talk and didnt just babble on for a half hour talking about drivers whos names he cant even pronounce.

I like kyle too. you can tell he has been around race cars all his life. he explains how the cars behave very well.

Id be happy with either of them.

[Hoss Ghoul]

I wish at least one article in 10 I read wouldn't say that Jeff Gordon would have 6 championships under the old point system, that is total B.S.

He would have 5, the 5th coming this year.

The year he supposedly would have secured his 5th JJ was up by over 200 points with about 3 or 4 to go before the chase and then his team went into crazy mode, trying out radical setups, etc. Given a normal season he'd have coasted to his 1st championship that year. Check how he ran in the chase barely losing to KB with a massive late rally.

If you're going to throw yourself into hypothetical situations it is much more believable that JJ would have won that championship than JG, by a factor of at least 10 to 1.

If you are willing to give JG that championship it is at least equally reasonalbe(more, in fact) to assume that given how well Harvick ran in 2001 that Earnhardt would have won his 8th championship instead of Gordon winning his 5th...get it? Point being, use your brains and remember what actually happened those years if you are going to make such leaps of logic.

[RaceFanStan]

THIS YEAR WOULD HAVE BEEN Jeff Gordon's 6TH CHAMPIONSHIP !!!

Jeff Gordon's 5th Championship would have come in 2004.
Jeff Gordon would have defeated Kurt Busch for the 1st Nextel Cup.
I just happen to have a record of the points standings comparison from 2004. :D

Look for yourself & then try to say people are wrong : http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

after Chase Race #10 and/or 2004 Nextel Cup Race #36 @ Homestead
CHASE Points Standings (Adjusted/FAKE) / “CLASSIC” Points Standings (Actual)
01. _6506 points --- Kurt Busch ----------- 01. 5042 points --- Jeff Gordon
02. –0008 points --- Jimmie Johnson ----- 02. –047 points --- Jimmie Johnson
03. –0016 points --- Jeff Gordon ---------- 03. –173 points --- Dale Earnhardt Jr
04. –0107 points --- Mark Martin ---------- 04. –247 points --- Kurt Busch
05. –0138 points --- Dale Earnhardt Jr --- 05. –341 points --- Tony Stewart
06. –0180 points --- Tony Stewart -------- 06. –445 points --- Mark Martin
07. –0326 points --- Ryan Newman ------- 07. –445 points --- Jamie McMurray
08. –0437 points --- Matt Kenseth -------- 08. –666 points --- Matt Kenseth
09. –0482 points --- Elliott Sadler --------- 09. –681 points --- Ryan Newman
10. –0506 points --- Jeremy Mayfield ----- 10. –727 points --- Elliott Sadler
11. –1909 points --- Jamie McMurray ----- 11. –765 points --- Bobby Labonte
12. –2229 points --- Bobby Labonte ------ 12. –768 points --- Kasey Kahne
13. –2232 points --- Kasey Kahne -------- 13. –814 points --- Kevin Harvick
14. –2278 points --- Kevin Harvick -------- 14. –828 points --- Dale Jarrett
15. –2292 points --- Dale Jarrett ---------- 15. –859 points --- Jeremy Mayfield

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

The numbers dont lie.

[harvick#1]

its the same for every driver, you can't go boohoo for Gordon, he and all the others know the chase determines the champion

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

its the same for every driver, you can't go boohoo for Gordon, he and all the others know the chase determines the champion


Fair point. But the question is is the chase the right way to select a champion?.

Dont get me wrong its still fun to watch and JJ is this years champion, but i cant help but feel a little cheated that the guy that has been best all year didnt lift the trophy.

[Sparky1329]

The numbers dont lie.

It looks that way to me.