Kubica vs Massa

[Mish_Mash]

If Mosley wants to attract more viewers he should take note. Wasn't their last lap battle one of the more exciting parts of the season? Sure, some very, very aggressive/debatable driving tactics, but both raced hard and fast to the finish, which (for the first time this season) had me on the edge of my seat. Some good racing with a good final result....both drivers shook hands and reflected on some of the better racing we have seen this year.

Thoughts?

[ShiftingGears]

The race director should also note to broadcast epic battles when theyre happening next time :up:

Fantastic racing from both of them. I'm glad they raced at Fuji.

[tinchote]

It was interesting. It is clear that asphalt run-offs really help on a rainy day.

[mstillhere]

If Mosley wants to attract more viewers he should take note. Wasn't their last lap battle one of the more exciting parts of the season? Sure, some very, very aggressive/debatable driving tactics, but both raced hard and fast to the finish, which (for the first time this season) had me on the edge of my seat. Some good racing with a good final result....both drivers shook hands and reflected on some of the better racing we have seen this year.

Thoughts?

I am sorry but, for ejoyble as it was, both drivers should be at least fined for breaking a1,000,000,000 rules.

[truefan72]

I am sorry but, for ejoyble as it was, both drivers should be at least fined for breaking a1,000,000,000 rules.

you mean the rules of racing like it used to be?

then fine me a billion.. That was thrilling stuff. I only wish I had seen the entire battle

[Lalo]

It was a great battle on the last lap. It could be seen their swet all over the track. Unbeleivable

[Bradley]

you mean the rules of racing like it used to be?

then fine me a billion.. That was thrilling stuff. I only wish I had seen the entire battleWell said!

The small part we were allowed to see, was great to watch. Better then the average "pit-stop overtaking" we have to look at most of the time.

Both drivers were treated unfair (imo, and probably also in their own) during this GP, and had a frustration to shake off, and they did that with glamour.

[ShiftingGears]

I am sorry but, for ejoyble as it was, both drivers should be at least fined for breaking a1,000,000,000 rules.

Name them!


IMO I didn't like the fact that the tarmac runoff gave Massa a better drive out of the final corner, but thats more the fault of the people who want tarmac runoff that gives drivers less of a time penalty for driving off the circuit.

[ArrowsFA1]

Thoughts?
The first thing that came to mind as I was watching their battle was Villeneuve & Arnoux at Dijon in 1979 :s mokin:

[jens]

Name them!


IMO I didn't like the fact that the tarmac runoff gave Massa a better drive out of the final corner, but thats more the fault of the people who want tarmac runoff that gives drivers less of a time penalty for driving off the circuit.

Kubica didn't give Massa any room, which forced the Brazilian to go off. Actually I have to say that the tarmac runoffs helped to create such a magnificent spectacle! Otherwise one of them would have gone off to gravel quite early and the battle would have ended early.

[ioan]

It was good to see drivers with some guts out there yesterday.
Kimi was pushing hard to overtake David and Heiki.
Felipe and Robert were exchanging heavy punches on that soaked track in that last lap. I'm still wondering why people think that Felipe is afraid to bang wheels when he did it several times this season and even before! :)

Vettel, the next Rainmaster, overdriving that STR in those treacherous conditions (he made a mistake but not under pressure, and not only of his doing).

These are the drivers that deserve to win the championship, IMO.

And someone should fire the Japanese TV director.

[jens]

Name them!


IMO I didn't like the fact that the tarmac runoff gave Massa a better drive out of the final corner, but thats more the fault of the people who want tarmac runoff that gives drivers less of a time penalty for driving off the circuit.

Kubica left no room to Massa, so he had no other option than to run wide. Also in the previous corner Kubica went wide without having nowhere to go. I think the tarmac runoff enabled to create such a spectacle, which lasted to the end!

[schmenke]

Name them!


IMO I didn't like the fact that the tarmac runoff gave Massa a better drive out of the final corner, but thats more the fault of the people who want tarmac runoff that gives drivers less of a time penalty for driving off the circuit.

My thoughts too. I thought a race was was supposed to be contested between the white lines :mark:
A shovel-full of gravel here and there wouldn't hurt IMO :mark:

[Trqster]

It was a great battle to watch, but surely if it wasn't for the "miraculous" TC it'd have ended in no time...

[ioan]

IMO I didn't like the fact that the tarmac runoff gave Massa a better drive out of the final corner, but thats more the fault of the people who want tarmac runoff that gives drivers less of a time penalty for driving off the circuit.

That's exactly what I was thinking about Hamilton 2 weeks ago!

[yodasarmpit]

All we can ask for is more of the same please, wheel to wheel racing with plenty overtaking.
I've been screaming for years for larger run off area's, and this was proof that they work and keep the racing going.

[schmenke]

All we can ask for is more of the same please, wheel to wheel racing with plenty overtaking.
I've been screaming for years for larger run off area's, and this was proof that they work and keep the racing going.

O.k., so why not eliminate the curbs as well, and just race on one large expanse of tarmac with white lines painted arbitrarily to indicate the "course" :mark:

[yodasarmpit]

O.k., so why not eliminate the curbs as well, and just race on one large expanse of tarmac with white lines painted arbitrarily to indicate the "course" :mark:
Overtaking has become almost impossible with the modern F1 car, so we either have to tackle the problem by restricting the cars even more or look at changing the tracks.
I for one see F1 as the pinnacle of motorsport so don't want to see the cars become even more restricted, therefore I think the emphasis should be on the track layout as a means to increasing overtaking opportunities.

I think that one method would be to simply widen the track, but having extended run of area's (that still punish those who stray) would lead to more opportunities for exciting racing.

[fandango]

The first thing that came to mind as I was watching their battle was Villeneuve & Arnoux at Dijon in 1979 :s mokin:

I think it was a lot less classy than that. I thought Kubica was hard done by, cause it looked like Massa actually turned his car into Kubica's deliberately. Maybe he was only trying to block, and did it late...

All we need now is Raikkonen to win in China with Alonso second and Hamilton DNF-ing. Then we'd see some real Samba dancing in Brazil.

[wedge]

Overtaking has become almost impossible with the modern F1 car, so we either have to tackle the problem by restricting the cars even more or look at changing the tracks.
I for one see F1 as the pinnacle of motorsport so don't want to see the cars become even more restricted, therefore I think the emphasis should be on the track layout as a means to increasing overtaking opportunities.

I think that one method would be to simply widen the track, but having extended run of area's (that still punish those who stray) would lead to more opportunities for exciting racing.

:up:

I like your thinking, a pity we are in a minority :(

[schmenke]

:up:

... a pity we are in a minority :(

Not necessarily. I too agree that most circuits are inadequate for the speed and handling of today's cars, however, I will not label racing "great" when much of it is done off track, and especially when advantage is potentially gained from it :mark: .
Call me a purist :p :

[ShiftingGears]

That's exactly what I was thinking about Hamilton 2 weeks ago!

Yeah me too, however Hamilton didn't gain a position by going onto the runoff.

[ShiftingGears]

Overtaking has become almost impossible with the modern F1 car, so we either have to tackle the problem by restricting the cars even more or look at changing the tracks.
I for one see F1 as the pinnacle of motorsport so don't want to see the cars become even more restricted, therefore I think the emphasis should be on the track layout as a means to increasing overtaking opportunities.

I think that one method would be to simply widen the track, but having extended run of area's (that still punish those who stray) would lead to more opportunities for exciting racing.

If the aero was restricted(winglets removed) instead of the engines with that boneheaded engine freeze, then you'd get more braking areas which mean passing. As a racing fan I don't like heaps and heaps of hairpins because it doesnt reward the drivers with better cornering technique/ability. I see F1 as the pinnacle of motorsport as in, the best drivers drive at the best tracks that challenge the driver rather than putting more emphasis on how the car is set up.
Hence why Spa will be remembered as great and the majority of Tilke tracks won't. Also variety is good, which we don't really have with the medium speed tracks with token long straights and tight hairpins.

The other path to go down is to ease off all the restrictions so you get teams being innovative, creating cars that may be dramatically faster at some parts of a circuit and slow in others. Which in itself, in theory, creates more passing.

[wedge]

As a racing fan I don't like heaps and heaps of hairpins because it doesnt reward the drivers with better cornering technique/ability.

With TC being banned next year, corner exit will be even more critical.

[ShiftingGears]

With TC being banned next year, corner exit will be even more critical.

And that is good. What's your point?

[winer]

Moan. This is no longer available on Youtube "due to a copyright claim by Formula1 Management". The fans be damned, money is the only thing that's important.

[rohanweb]

wheel to wheel driving..
wow.. this is what we should expect from F1 ;)

hats off to Massa & Kubica

[wmcot]

I am sorry but, for ejoyble as it was, both drivers should be at least fined for breaking a1,000,000,000 rules.

Then you would have absolutely hated Villeneuve and Arnoux at Dijon in 1979! (As ARROWS has mentioned.)

[wmcot]

Yeah me too, however Hamilton didn't gain a position by going onto the runoff.

No, he just increased his lead!

[ShiftingGears]

No, he just increased his lead!

Well he was behind Alonso at La Source, and out of Eau Rouge he was also behind Alonso. I do think that the tarmac runoff at La Source is completely unnecessary, as Spa was just fine without it for 82 years.

[ioan]

Yeah me too, however Hamilton didn't gain a position by going onto the runoff.

Not that he would have been punished if that happened. ;)

On a serious note, if a driver is pushed wide, and out of the track, by a competitor he has the right to go for it with what he has at disposal, otherwise pushing others out when they try to pass you would be legalized!

[wedge]

And that is good. What's your point?


I don't like heaps and heaps of hairpins because it doesnt reward the drivers with better cornering technique/ability.

Hairpins require a different technique/skill. It's all about mechanical grip, especially on a track that forces compromising set ups, since since the wings don't produce downforce at very low speeds.

[ShiftingGears]

Hairpins require a different technique/skill. It's all about mechanical grip, especially on a track that forces compromising set ups, since since the wings don't produce downforce at very low speeds.

Yes there is a different technique involved but I think you can understand why all the drivers and fans view Spa as a drivers circuit and not something like Bahrain.

[wedge]

Yes there is a different technique involved but I think you can understand why all the drivers and fans view Spa as a drivers circuit and not something like Bahrain.

The drivers rate Tilke-dromes like Malaysia and Bahrain very highly because there is mixture of different types of corners but they're very flat and no significant undulating corners apart from Turkey. They're recently built tracks but are waiting to build a legacy.

Spa has long straights and large braking zones and mixture of corners. Spa has history that goes back to the origins Grand Prix racing ie. high speed road racing.

Suzuka is arguably a cookie cutter track since it was originally conceived as a test track. It was designed by John Hugenholtz, predecessor to Tilke who also designed Zandvoort and Jarama which have a long straight with hairpin on the end and they're weren't half bad were they?

[stevie_gerrard]

Absolutely brilliant, unbelieveable. I couldnt stop jumping up and down for the final half lap. you will never see a better passage of racing than that last half lap for the next 5 years i dont think.

[mirek01]

Absolutely brilliant, unbelieveable. I couldnt stop jumping up and down for the final half lap. you will never see a better passage of racing than that last half lap for the next 5 years i dont think.
I hope that we will see more action in a short time. :cool:

[ShiftingGears]

The drivers rate Tilke-dromes like Malaysia and Bahrain very highly because there is mixture of different types of corners but they're very flat and no significant undulating corners apart from Turkey. They're recently built tracks but are waiting to build a legacy.

Spa has long straights and large braking zones and mixture of corners. Spa has history that goes back to the origins Grand Prix racing ie. high speed road racing.

Suzuka is arguably a cookie cutter track since it was originally conceived as a test track. It was designed by John Hugenholtz, predecessor to Tilke who also designed Zandvoort and Jarama which have a long straight with hairpin on the end and they're weren't half bad were they?

They rate Malaysia highly because it has flow, and if you make a mistake in one corner then it will carry through further corners. Same with Suzuka and Spa, to a greater extent- the best drivers can carry their speed from previous corners onto following corners - it's a drivers circuit.

Jarama at the time, like Le Mans Bugatti, was generally conceived as a dud. Now that they're seen as rather good now, what does that tell you about modern track standards? ;)

About Spa, If it is possible I'd much rather the cars be on the old circuit as there isn't any tracks on the calendar that have predominantly high speed corners. Most are too focused on having a variety of corners, rather than being unique and flowing.