Where is Alonso going to go?

[Buzz Lightyear]

I looks to me as if he is running out of options.

Unless Todt is playing 'hard to get', I suggest Alonso might even retire!

Body language as McLaren suggests he must go.

Ferrari dont want him

Renault havent got the pace.

BMW are signed up.

Toyota... Honda.. dont think so.

Redbull 1-50 outside bet.

[Ranger]

Hmm... I'd still say McLaren.

[trumperZ06]

;) Renault... no one else will have Alonso !!!

[truefan72]

did anyone see the full Alonso crash?

What exactly happened there?

[Whyzars]

Alonso is being beaten for pole every other race BY A ROOKIE!!!

He is in a car that even A ROOKIE CAN GET POLE IN!!!

The McLaren is an exceptional racing car and should get all the credit. It has made A ROOKIE into world championship material and has reduced a former world champion to picking up the crumbs whenever the rookie makes a rookie mistake.

Alonso deserves an F1 seat but he's not ready to be a first string driver. Where's Minardi when you need them. :)

[Flat.tyres]

Alonso is being beaten for pole every other race BY A ROOKIE!!!

He is in a car that even A ROOKIE CAN GET POLE IN!!!

The McLaren is an exceptional racing car and should get all the credit. It has made A ROOKIE into world championship material and has reduced a former world champion to picking up the crumbs whenever the rookie makes a rookie mistake.

Alonso deserves an F1 seat but he's not ready to be a first string driver. Where's Minardi when you need them. :)

It's not often you read a post and trully wonder why people bother watching Motor Sport :rolleyes:

[ArrowsFA1]

I looks to me as if he is running out of options.
I agree, but he has ruled out a sabbatical year (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62919).

[Mark]

Options are still open. Renault looks like the most likely place, Fisi isn't up to the job, if I was Flav I would look to have Alonso and Kovelinen as my drivers.

Ferrari has been mentioned but I can't see any reason why they would get rid of Raikkonen or Massa, they are both exceptional talents, I would rate both of them as at least as good as Alonso.

[Mark]

I agree, but he has ruled out a sabbatical year (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62919).

"I have no news from them." - Alonso on Ferrari.

So it looks like Alonso has been contacting other teams, despite him insisting that he's happy at McLaren.

[ArrowsFA1]

Renault boss Flavio Briatore has confirmed that he has invited Fernando Alonso to rejoin the team whenever he leaves McLaren.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62925

[Flat.tyres]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62925

This was the rumour i reported a few weeks ago. Apparently it is more than an open invitation.

[janneppi]

Funny enough, Kovalainen hasn't confirmed anything for next season, except that he won't drive with a second driver status. :)

[Flat.tyres]

Funny enough, Kovalainen hasn't confirmed anything for next season, except that he won't drive with a second driver status. :)

Surely not a team with "no team orders". Not the HK that said Lewis would be a deserving champion ;)

[N. Jones]

Well, Ferrari is closed because Jean Todt is still there and he is no Alonso fan. What if he is removed and Ross Brawn becomes team manager at Ferrari? We are forgetting that is also a likely scenario. Would Brawn be more willing to form a Raikkonen-Alonso partnership?

[Mark]

Alonso does have a 3 year contract, however it would be unlikely not to contain get out clauses if both parties were unhappy with their current arrangements.

However, such things usually state that even if the driver or team excercise the get out clauses they remain under contract until 1st January the following year.

So it's quite possible that even if Alonso has decided that he's going to (say) Renault, that he's contractually forbidden to speak of it until next year, or at least until the end of the season.

[Mintexmemory]

Funny enough, Kovalainen hasn't confirmed anything for next season, except that he won't drive with a second driver status. :)
No self-respecting competitor would want to be Alonso's hand-rag. HK saw at first hand how Fisi was diminished by Alonso's style. I'm sure a swap is the logical move if Ron and Flav can agree on how much Renault have to pay :)

[Whyzars]

It's not often you read a post and trully wonder why people bother watching Motor Sport :rolleyes:

Hamilton out-qualifies Alonso and I believe that is a reflection on Alonso rather than the pure brilliance of the boy wonder. I cheer for Hamilton and see him as a deserving WDC purely because he is a ROOKIE and winning an F1 WDC in your first year is quite an achievement.

Hamilton has made Alonso look less than a WDC. That is my point. If Alonso can't beat a driver who has never driven in F1 before then questions must be raised about his ability. I rate him as less than first string but he has probably progressed beyond Minardi level.

Alonso should swap seats with Button and see if he can cut it against Barrichiello. Certainly Alonso could learn something from Barrichiello about grace in defeat.

[Ranger]

Hamilton has made Alonso look less than a WDC. That is my point. If Alonso can't beat a driver who has never driven in F1 before then questions must be raised about his ability. I rate him as less than first string but he has probably progressed beyond Minardi level.

Alonso should swap seats with Button and see if he can cut it against Barrichiello. Certainly Alonso could learn something from Barrichiello about grace in defeat.

Let's see... This is the same Button that got beaten by Fisichella, the one that Alonso made quite the fool of. And also I don't think Alonso should learn anything from Barrichello, considering Alonso is a double world champ and Barrichello has been by talent and team orders, a number 2 driver for the past 7 years. World champs generally aren't the most generous of people either.

[winer]

With an attitude like this :
-----------------
The irresistible incentive for Alonso is Briatore's promise of a clear number one status.

"These days it's important that the roles, number one and two, are clear, otherwise you risk to destabilise the team," he told the Italian sports newspaper. "If you hire a World Champion, then you must give him the number one status."

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071001161804.shtml
---------------------
Alonso will be lucky to find anybody willing to give him a seat. He comes across as a petulant, spoiled child!

[RJL25]

has anyone said prodrive yet? They are supposed to be using full 2008 spec mclaren cars and mercedes engines are they not? Seems like the most logical place for alonso to spend a season while he waits for a seat at ferrari to open up in 2009

[leopard]

Even if He goes back at Renault, seems it wouldn't be easy any teams to topple Hamilton and McLaren. Give him a Ferrari seat then we may see the probability.

Currently Ferrari have two great drivers and there is no reason why would change them, but generally Alonso is cleverer.

[Roamy]

don't kid yourself next season is a whole new deal and Renault have the best TC cheater in the history of the sport. Renault will rock next year and Alonso will be at the helm

[Dzeidzei]

.., but generally Alonso is cleverer.

Oh, I thought the general idea now was that he´s a big whiner? I want the first toys or I wont play with you!

He´ll be at Renault with Fisi. McL will have a Finn again, Heikki or Nico.

[leopard]

Oh, I thought the general idea now was that he´s a big whiner? I want the first toys or I wont play with you!

He´ll be at Renault with Fisi. McL will have a Finn again, Heikki or Nico.
means Nico Kovalainen?

[rohanweb]

Hamilton out-qualifies Alonso and I believe that is a reflection on Alonso rather than the pure brilliance of the boy wonder. I cheer for Hamilton and see him as a deserving WDC purely because he is a ROOKIE and winning an F1 WDC in your first year is quite an achievement.

Hamilton has made Alonso look less than a WDC. That is my point. If Alonso can't beat a driver who has never driven in F1 before then questions must be raised about his ability. I rate him as less than first string but he has probably progressed beyond Minardi level.

Alonso should swap seats with Button and see if he can cut it against Barrichiello. Certainly Alonso could learn something from Barrichiello about grace in defeat.

I completely agree with Whyzars post.
Alonso doesnt lookalike a real wdc thesedays,he is prone to making toomuch mistakes on and off the track, why LH can be highly rated is because his sheer pace and error free driving,Alonso can getback to the ranault old days to see what he can do! like the fans other team owners are much aware big-time about Alonso's attitude and his talent.
Jenson Button to Mclaren anyone ??? ( not sure if he can beat LH to be number 1 )

[Dzeidzei]

means Nico Kovalainen?

Nico is Keke´s son, so that makes him Finn enough for me. He´ll probably race under the Finnish flag again as he did before.

[leopard]

Nico is Keke´s son, so that makes him Finn enough for me. He´ll probably race under the Finnish flag again as he did before.
It should be Heikki or Keke, not sure that he would want to drive F1.

[Flat.tyres]

Hamilton out-qualifies Alonso and I believe that is a reflection on Alonso rather than the pure brilliance of the boy wonder. I cheer for Hamilton and see him as a deserving WDC purely because he is a ROOKIE and winning an F1 WDC in your first year is quite an achievement.

Hamilton has made Alonso look less than a WDC. That is my point. If Alonso can't beat a driver who has never driven in F1 before then questions must be raised about his ability. I rate him as less than first string but he has probably progressed beyond Minardi level.

Alonso should swap seats with Button and see if he can cut it against Barrichiello. Certainly Alonso could learn something from Barrichiello about grace in defeat.

I'm not too sure. Alonso / Schumacher gave us some epic battles and I think that Alonso is an excellent driver.

But, you are right in that he is a flawed one. He gets personal, tries to manipulate and bully thinking a Rookie would crumble. He obvioiusly didn't study the GP2 and Renault tapes very well if he thought that. When that didn't work, he resorted to less desireable tactics.

I do think Alonso is a worthy champion for the last couple of years but suffers greatly when he hasn't got the odds stacked in his favour.

[ratonmacias]

don't kid yourself next season is a whole new deal and Renault have the best TC cheater in the history of the sport. Renault will rock next year and Alonso will be at the helm

fousto are you talking about that Tad guy?

[jens]

I think one of the reasons McLaren and Alonso have been so hesitant in parting and why it still hasn't happened, is that none of them has a very good other choice. Every other available team is a step down for Alonso. And for McLaren it's extremely hard to find a replacement, who is on par with FA. Heikki and Nico are arguably tied with contracts and it might be risky to race with two relatively unexperienced drivers. Among experienced drivers there isn't an available match to FA either.

[ioan]

I think one of the reasons McLaren and Alonso have been so hesitant in parting and why it still hasn't happened, is that none of them has a very good other choice. Every other available team is a step down for Alonso. And for McLaren it's extremely hard to find a replacement, who is on par with FA. Heikki and Nico are arguably tied with contracts and it might be risky to race with two relatively unexperienced drivers. Among experienced drivers there isn't an available match to FA either.

Are you kidding me?!
McLaren will have "the most experienced and extraordinary driver on the grid, the genius of setup finding, the greatest WDC of all times, the best thing since sliced bread" and so on...

[Flat.tyres]

Are you kidding me?!
McLaren will have "the most experienced and extraordinary driver on the grid, the genius of setup finding, the greatest WDC of all times, the best thing since sliced bread" and so on...

Now, you could be going a bit far there but give it a few years, your prophecy may come true ;)

I do think Alonso is a worthy champion for the last couple of years but suffers greatly when he hasn't got the odds stacked in his favour.

Has there ever been a champion who didn't? OK, some might have not quite been as bad as others, but it's not really in the emotional make-up of a champion not to be pissed off when it's not going right.

I do find it a bit strange that some fans expect a great driver to be a great (as in caring, magnanimous, sharing) human being.

If being a great human being was a necessary job requisite, St Francis of Assisi would have the grid all to himself.

[yodasarmpit]

TBH I think Flavio is the only person on the grid that would employ him.

[trumperZ06]

Are you kidding me?!
McLaren will have "the most experienced and extraordinary driver on the grid, the genius of setup finding, the greatest WDC of all times, the best thing since sliced bread" and so on...

:D Damn Ioan... you are really smoking !!! :s mokin:

;) Soooo... is Micheal Schumacher coming back from retirement ???

[ioan]

:D Damn Ioan... you are really smoking !!! :s mokin:

;) Soooo... is Micheal Schumacher coming back from retirement ???

To drive for McLaren? And especially for RD?! :laugh:

[ioan]

TBH I think Flavio is the only person on the grid that would employ him.

Flavio made it very clear that shall FA get out of his McLaren contract Renault is expecting him and will give him what he is looking for! ;)

[stevie_gerrard]

i predicted it at the start of the Mclaren Furore, Alonso and Heikki will be in the renault next season, even though the renault may not be the car it was 2 years ago.

You heard it here first ;)

[mirek01]

He should leave McLaren and go to Renault.

[keysersoze]

Despite the sporting-ness of having equal #1 status, Ron should have learned his lesson about the problematic nature of it.

Kovalainen has stated that he will be in F1. His options:

Renault: I doubt he will agree to be #2
Prodrive: hasn't been mentioned in connection with this drive
McLaren: see Renault
Toyota: see Prodrive

Fernando's options appear to be Renault and Toyota. It seems highly unlikely he would go to McLaren Light (Prodrive). If Kova stays I can't see FA getting his #1 status. HK and FA at Renault won't happen.

McLaren needs to find a quick driver that can push Hamilton, capable of winning when something goes amiss with him, without actually threatening him. A driver of this mold appears to Fisichella and Ralf Schumacher. (Yes, he took a chance on Hamilton, but he had a 2-time WDC on the way, and Lewis had been groomed for the seat for a number of years. I don't think Dennis would have TWO drivers with a combined one year of experence.)

Ferrari have a quick pair, and more importantly, stability. I doubt they will change.

Toyota is the most interesting option for Fernando. In their histoy, they have hired proven drivers, but have yet to hire a WDC, a driver who can elevate the team a la Michael Scumacher. A driver of Alonso's ability may be the missing link for this team. He and Jarno would be a good pairing, both would make it through Q3 each time. We would have, instantly, three top teams (McLaren, Ferrari, and Toyota) and maybe a 4th (BMW).

Rosberg won't be a #2. I think he stays at Williams, Wurz is out of Williams (or retires, as has been rumored), and the Fish could be a replacement. Frank rates GF, and it would be a good challenge for Rosberg--a pretty good pairing given their status as a customer team. Moreover, GF could be had for cheap.

Now I'm thinking about Nelson Piquet Jr. to McLaren: he's stated that he will be in F1 next year, but if Alonso is in the frame, Piquet is on the market, and he might agree to be teammate with Lewis. If Alonso and Piquet were at Renault together, then Kova is the odd man out, and I don't see him at McLaren. This won't happen. And Piquet to McLaren is just too far-fetched.

Next year

Ferrari: unchanged
Toyota: Alonso and Jarno
McLaren: Lewis and Ralf
Williams: Rosberg and Fisichella
Renault: Kovalainen and Piquet
Prodrive: de la Rosa and Wurz (ex-McLaren testers)

[Mintexmemory]

Bourdais! ;)

[jens]

Toyota is the most interesting option for Fernando. In their histoy, they have hired proven drivers, but have yet to hire a WDC, a driver who can elevate the team a la Michael Scumacher. A driver of Alonso's ability may be the missing link for this team. He and Jarno would be a good pairing, both would make it through Q3 each time. We would have, instantly, three top teams (McLaren, Ferrari, and Toyota) and maybe a 4th (BMW).



I quite like the idea of Alonso moving to Toyota and to see him having another duel with Trulli. As much as I like to see Toyota doing well and I also like your optimism, but Toyota a Top3 team just after changing one driver? :D Toyota should also get Jean Todt, then I may start believing in them in the long run again. :)

[jens]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62977

At least Jarno does not fear facing a rivarly with his (old?) friend Fernando again. :cool:

[Tazio]

Despite the sporting-ness of having equal #1 status, Ron should have learned his lesson about the problematic nature of it.

Kovalainen has stated that he will be in F1. His options:

Renault: I doubt he will agree to be #2
Prodrive: hasn't been mentioned in connection with this drive
McLaren: see Renault
Toyota: see Prodrive

Fernando's options appear to be Renault and Toyota. It seems highly unlikely he would go to McLaren Light (Prodrive). If Kova stays I can't see FA getting his #1 status. HK and FA at Renault won't happen.

McLaren needs to find a quick driver that can push Hamilton, capable of winning when something goes amiss with him, without actually threatening him. A driver of this mold appears to Fisichella and Ralf Schumacher. (Yes, he took a chance on Hamilton, but he had a 2-time WDC on the way, and Lewis had been groomed for the seat for a number of years. I don't think Dennis would have TWO drivers with a combined one year of experence.)

Ferrari have a quick pair, and more importantly, stability. I doubt they will change.

Toyota is the most interesting option for Fernando. In their histoy, they have hired proven drivers, but have yet to hire a WDC, a driver who can elevate the team a la Michael Scumacher. A driver of Alonso's ability may be the missing link for this team. He and Jarno would be a good pairing, both would make it through Q3 each time. We would have, instantly, three top teams (McLaren, Ferrari, and Toyota) and maybe a 4th (BMW).

Rosberg won't be a #2. I think he stays at Williams, Wurz is out of Williams (or retires, as has been rumored), and the Fish could be a replacement. Frank rates GF, and it would be a good challenge for Rosberg--a pretty good pairing given their status as a customer team. Moreover, GF could be had for cheap.

Now I'm thinking about Nelson Piquet Jr. to McLaren: he's stated that he will be in F1 next year, but if Alonso is in the frame, Piquet is on the market, and he might agree to be teammate with Lewis. If Alonso and Piquet were at Renault together, then Kova is the odd man out, and I don't see him at McLaren. This won't happen. And Piquet to McLaren is just too far-fetched.

Next year

Ferrari: unchanged
Toyota: Alonso and Jarno
McLaren: Lewis and Ralf
Williams: Rosberg and Fisichella
Renault: Kovalainen and Piquet
Prodrive: de la Rosa and Wurz (ex-McLaren testers)

It apears Toyota are very interested. I like your reasoning! But Ralf to Mclaren? I believe that Ralf still wants an F1 seat, and stranger things have happened. I guess we will just have to wait and see!

http://www.manipef1.com/news/2007/in...882&redirect=1

"Toyota has openly declared its intention to try to unite Fernando Alonso with one of its single seaters for the 2008 season. Amid the Spaniard's almost certainly untenable position at McLaren, Toyota president John Howett joined Renault counterpart Flavio Briatore in publicly declaring the Japanese giant's interest in Alonso.

“Toyota would be very interested, if he should be available,” Howett is quoted as saying by the news agency Sport-Informations-Dienst. The Briton added, however, that Toyota has not yet held detailed discussions with the 26-year-old."

[wmcot]

It apears Toyota are very interested. I like your reasoning! But Ralf to Mclaren? I believe that Ralf still wants an F1 seat, and stranger things have happened. I guess we will just have to wait and see!

http://www.manipef1.com/news/2007/in...882&redirect=1

"Toyota has openly declared its intention to try to unite Fernando Alonso with one of its single seaters for the 2008 season. Amid the Spaniard's almost certainly untenable position at McLaren, Toyota president John Howett joined Renault counterpart Flavio Briatore in publicly declaring the Japanese giant's interest in Alonso.

“Toyota would be very interested, if he should be available,” Howett is quoted as saying by the news agency Sport-Informations-Dienst. The Briton added, however, that Toyota has not yet held detailed discussions with the 26-year-old."

Perhaps he will bring them .5 sec per lap, too! ;)

[Crypt]

Fred will go back to Flav where he will be appreciated and can bring Renault back up to speed in terms of car setup.

[jens]

What I doubt is that how Fernando's personality fits together with Japanese work mentality. At the end of last year Alonso criticized Renault for not supporting him (and has done it before too - even in 2003-2004 :p :) and it's even not worth mentioning, how are the relations between him and McLaren.

Japanese seem like calm and composed people. Haven't noticed any bitching, whinging and internal problems at Toyota, which is actually one of the aspects, why I like that team - modesty. And I'm not sure if they can stand Alonso's constant whining. Even Briatore has admitted that Alonso is a "difficult personality". I can see some problems arising in the co-operation between Alonso and Toyota, especially when Toyota won't show signs of improvement.

[ShiftingGears]

I think it's going to be Renault. They're a team that have the potential to win, and I don't think Alonso is going to risk going to Toyota.

[Tazio]

I think it's going to be Renault. They're a team that have the potential to win, and I don't think Alonso is going to risk going to Toyota.Let me ask this then. Do you think Toyota will make a bonafide offer?
Howlett says he would like to have him. He also says that no one from Toyota has talked to him. Of course they wouldn't admit it if they had. Not without permission from McLaren while he is under contract with them.

[ShiftingGears]

Let me ask this then. Do you think Toyota will make a bonafide offer?
Howlett says he would like to have him. He also says that no one from Toyota has talked to him. Of course they wouldn't admit it if they had. Not without permission from McLaren while he is under contract with them.

Yes I think they probably will. But I can't see Alonso wanting to go there, personally.

[truefan72]

Watch out for toyota next year, with or without Alonso,

Renault seems like the best option, but it won't be a fairy tale relationship next year. Heike won't be happy if asked to take a subservant role, NPJr if he were to partner with him would absolutely not like to play 2nd fiddle to anyone.

There is no way he's ending up at Williams for a whole host of reasons.
to me there is a 5% chance he stays at Mcclaren, and that depends on his attitude and several strict clauses mandating his behavior.

we will jsut have to wait and see.

[Tazio]

I think it is well within the realm of possibillity for FA to go to Toyota.
The biggist impetiment will be McLaren not wanting him to take intel. to them.(not that they would know what to do with it)
There are plenty of reasons why FA will not go to Toyota. Money, however is not one of them. They have shown they are willing to pi$$ away vast sums of money. This could turn out to be one of their better investments. If not, what do they lose.
What if FA manages to win the wdc. What effect would this have on his future plans.

[Roamy]

well I doubt toyota - honda is the better jap ride and all alonso has to do is raise his hand.

smart money says back to renault and yes HK will agree to #2

[Valve Bounce]

Flavio made it very clear that shall FA get out of his McLaren contract Renault is expecting him and will give him what he is looking for! ;)

Like a good kick up the arse? After Fernando's blatant show of disrespect and hostility to his boss, not to mention lack of loyalty, somehow I don't think Flav will be so keen on the idea of getting such a disruptive person back into his team.

Only time will tell, but I don't think Fernando will be with McLaren next year.

[ArrowsFA1]

5Live's rumour is that Alonso has signed to join Ferrari in 2009. Until then he will switch to Renault with Heikki joining McLaren.

[redson]

[quote="rohanweb"] LH can be highly rated is because his sheer pace and error free driving QUOTE]
You talked too soon when you said that LH makes no mistakes, even the greatest make mistakes, so why LH would not do any?

[wmcot]

I think it is well within the realm of possibillity for FA to go to Toyota.
The biggist impetiment will be McLaren not wanting him to take intel. to them.(not that they would know what to do with it)
There are plenty of reasons why FA will not go to Toyota. Money, however is not one of them. They have shown they are willing to pi$$ away vast sums of money. This could turn out to be one of their better investments. If not, what do they lose.
What if FA manages to win the wdc. What effect would this have on his future plans.

If FA wins the WDC and goes to Toyota, it will be strange seeing the number "1" on a Toyota's nose!

[leopard]

He doesn't want to go elsewhere from McLaren, He only doesn't want to see Hamilton around. :)

[wmcot]

He doesn't want to go elsewhere from McLaren, He only doesn't want to see Hamilton around. :)

I'm not sure he wants to see Ron Dennis, either. I think the feeling is mutual between the two of them.

[leopard]

That's easy, Ron Dennis could be The Man in the Iron Mask

[Valve Bounce]

LH can be highly rated is because his sheer pace and error free driving QUOTE]
You talked too soon when you said that LH makes no mistakes, even the greatest make mistakes, so why LH would not do any?

...............and what has this got to do with this thread? :rolleyes:

[osg]

It's interesting ............. Alonso has said more than once that he'd consider retiring if he won 3 WDC's...

[Flat.tyres]

It's interesting ............. Alonso has said more than once that he'd consider retiring if he won 3 WDC's...

The price is very high but might just be worth it ;)

[Mark]

The most sensible course is to go to Renault. But there is a certain aspect in everyones lives that once you've moved on you should not go back. Which makes Renault less than certain.

[F1boat]

The price is very high but might just be worth it ;)

Even if I like Alonso, that was really funny :)

[keysersoze]

. . . then will Fisi stay? I'm sure Fernando would approve, and the team has two constructor's titles with this pairing. Would having Nelson as the second driver be too much of a wild card, another Lewis situation in the offing?

If it's Piquet and Alonso next season at Renault, then is Fisi the front runner for the vacant Williams seat?

And, if Heike is going to McLaren, what would the arrangement be? Equal #1 status with Lewis? IMO, Kova could be every bit as quick as Hamilton, and without Fernando's input McLaren may lose a couple of tenths to the competition.

[Flat.tyres]

. . . then will Fisi stay? I'm sure Fernando would approve, and the team has two constructor's titles with this pairing. Would having Nelson as the second driver be too much of a wild card, another Lewis situation in the offing?

If it's Piquet and Alonso next season at Renault, then is Fisi the front runner for the vacant Williams seat?

And, if Heike is going to McLaren, what would the arrangement be? Equal #1 status with Lewis? IMO, Kova could be every bit as quick as Hamilton, and without Fernando's input McLaren may lose a couple of tenths to the competition.

Mclaren have always operated a twin #1 strategy so Hekki will have that. Of course, people will claim otherwise if Lewis gets the upper hand ;)

[rabf1]

I just cannot believe that Ferrari would be stupid enough to team Fred up with Kimi. So I do not think Fred will ever be able to move to Ferrari.

I think that sooner or later Toyota is going to produce a competitive car. I don't like Fred, but it does seem like he is pretty good at helping develop a car. If I were Fred I would go to Toyota, take the boat load of cash they would likely pay him, and gamble that he can help make them competitive.

[jens]

Watch out for toyota next year, with or without Alonso,




I think that sooner or later Toyota is going to produce a competitive car.

Wow, some people are a lot more optimistic about Toyota than I am. :eek:

I have lost all the belief this year... And I'm even highly questioning whether there is still any reason for them to continue competing in F1. :mark:

[leopard]

It's interesting ............. Alonso has said more than once that he'd consider retiring if he won 3 WDC's... Wasn't this enough to categorize him as a humble person? ;)

[markabilly]

Alonso does have a 3 year contract, however it would be unlikely not to contain get out clauses if both parties were unhappy with their current arrangements.

However, such things usually state that even if the driver or team excercise the get out clauses they remain under contract until 1st January the following year.

So it's quite possible that even if Alonso has decided that he's going to (say) Renault, that he's contractually forbidden to speak of it until next year, or at least until the end of the season.


I made this point in another thread...before everyone just assumes he is gone, there is certain amount of posturing, either pubicly or privately, because some "breach" might provide one or the other the upper hand in this matter---clearly if FA breaches he could be sitting out a year with no pay...or if Mac breaches, FA might be able to collect his money out of MAc and still go somewhere else immediately.....

and a "breach" might be a failure to treat both equally or whatever OR a breach might be to criticise the team in some specified manner--hard to speculate without the contract in hand to read.

And they might "out-bluff" each other, with FA back driving for Mac....but I just think that even if it a negiotated deal that leaves both a bit unhappy, that is what it should be....

The smart bet is that FA is gone, because it should be clear now, that the two are NOT in love and there seems to be "irreconcilable differences" between the two....but some people stay married for years in such situations....ask Prince Charles.... :D

As to toyota, if they were willing to pay 20 million for Ralfie, then what would they pay for a two-time WDC who managed to barely beat out MS?
I would think about double that.......

[Tazio]

I just posted this on another thread, but I think it speaks more to this discourse

http://www.viewlondon.co.uk/news/alonso-in-new-attack-on-dennis-18312328.html

He is behind many of the scandals McLaren have been involved in off the track this year," Alonso said.

Breach, bluff, posturing, libel, or----------------Truth?

[jens]

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news/2007/10/Bietet_Toyota_150_Millionen_US-Dollar_fuer_Alonso_07101010.html

Omg, that is absolutely insane! 150 Million dollars (including 35 Mil $ per year) to get Alonso?!?! :eek:

[Tazio]

Would it be too much to ask if you could give a short to the point tanslation into english, please

[jens]

Basically according to a rumour Toyota is trying to make a decisive attempt to halt Alonso from going to Renault and for Toyota money is the main trump-card to get the Spaniard. Also as there have been rumours that Toyota has considered concentrating on Williams, then Howett & Co are doing their best to avoid the current Toyota team becoming a reject.

[DazzlaF1]

I just posted this on another thread, but I think it speaks more to this discourse

http://www.viewlondon.co.uk/news/alonso-in-new-attack-on-dennis-18312328.html

He is behind many of the scandals McLaren have been involved in off the track this year," Alonso said.

Breach, bluff, posturing, libel, or----------------Truth?

Well wichever way, Alonso's looking like getting closer and closer to signing his own P45

[Tazio]

Basically according to a rumour Toyota is trying to make a decisive attempt to halt Alonso from going to Renault and for Toyota money is the main trump-card to get the Spaniard. Also as there have been rumours that Toyota has considered concentrating on Williams, then Howett & Co are doing their best to avoid the current Toyota team becoming a reject.
Thanks Jens I'm really curious about the $150 million OMG part

[Valve Bounce]

Basically according to a rumour Toyota is trying to make a decisive attempt to halt Alonso from going to Renault and for Toyota money is the main trump-card to get the Spaniard. Also as there have been rumours that Toyota has considered concentrating on Williams, then Howett & Co are doing their best to avoid the current Toyota team becoming a reject.


Then, of course, therre's the rumour (which I am starting now) that NAASA is offering Alonso US$Two hunder million to fly to Mars, and Cadbury is involved in the deal as an advertisement for Mars Bars. :p :

[markabilly]

Then, of course, therre's the rumour (which I am starting now) that NAASA is offering Alonso US$Two hunder million to fly to Mars, and Cadbury is involved in the deal as an advertisement for Mars Bars. :p :
it is not a rumor, I saw it in a spanish newspaper....... :D

[ArrowsFA1]

Basically according to a rumour Toyota is trying to make a decisive attempt to halt Alonso from going to Renault and for Toyota money is the main trump-card to get the Spaniard. Also as there have been rumours that Toyota has considered concentrating on Williams, then Howett & Co are doing their best to avoid the current Toyota team becoming a reject.
Toyota would do very well to concentrate their efforts on Williams, but the stumbling block to Williams becoming the 'works' team is going to be Frank & Patrick's reluctance to hand over control. However...Toyota resources, Williams engineering & experience, Alonso's talent...an exciting combination if it ever happened.

[SGWilko]

Toyota would do very well to concentrate their efforts on Williams, but the stumbling block to Williams becoming the 'works' team is going to be Frank & Patrick's reluctance to hand over control. However...Toyota resources, Williams engineering & experience, Alonso's talent...an exciting combination if it ever happened.

Can you imagine just how good a team that would be - A Frank & Patrick run team, with uber finance, and a works engine?

Not so sure about the FA bit though, he'd complain to Patrick that Franks wheelchair tyres had been tampered with, that he brought 0.6 seconds to the team so deserves to be given his own toilet cubicle with pink loo roll..............

[Valve Bounce]

Toyota would do very well to concentrate their efforts on Williams, but the stumbling block to Williams becoming the 'works' team is going to be Frank & Patrick's reluctance to hand over control. However...Toyota resources, Williams engineering & experience, Alonso's talent...an exciting combination if it ever happened.

The idea of Frank handing over control to Toyota is mind boggling. We can come up with a multitude of similes including handing over Disneyland to Colonel Sanders.

While no one will dispute Alonso's talent, having someone so disruptive on everything from drivers to management in the team is something I would not want to deal with under any circumstances. They would be far better trying to talk SchM out of retirement.

[Tazio]

Fernando Alonso has signed a letter of intent to rejoin Renault starting next January (2008), according to emerging reports. Germany's Bild newspaper said the document is the precursor to a definitive three-year contract (2008-2010), but only if the reigning world champion can successfully negotiate an end to his current McLaren deal. Alonso, 26, is currently under contract to McLaren also for 2008, with an option to continue in 2009.

The news of Alonso's likely return to Renault follows reports that Toyota was offering the Spaniard a record retainer to switch to the Japanese giant for 2008. The German magazine Sport Bild said the Cologne based team was prepared to fork out (US) $150 million for a three year deal; a comparable amount of money to that earned by Michael Schumacher at Ferrari towards the end of his illustrious career.

http://www.manipef1.com/news/2007/index.php?id=1901&redirect=1

[SGWilko]

Fernando Alonso has signed a letter of intent to rejoin Renault starting next January (2008), according to emerging reports. Germany's Bild newspaper said the document is the precursor to a definitive three-year contract (2008-2010), but only if the reigning world champion can successfully negotiate an end to his current McLaren deal. Alonso, 26, is currently under contract to McLaren also for 2008, with an option to continue in 2009.

The news of Alonso's likely return to Renault follows reports that Toyota was offering the Spaniard a record retainer to switch to the Japanese giant for 2008. The German magazine Sport Bild said the Cologne based team was prepared to fork out (US) $150 million for a three year deal; a comparable amount of money to that earned by Michael Schumacher at Ferrari towards the end of his illustrious career.

http://www.manipef1.com/news/2007/index.php?id=1901&redirect=1


Toyota gunning for the wrong man again. Did they learn nothing throwing millions at Ralf?

Can you imagine Ron willingly assisting FA get out of his contract.

Oh no, wait a minute, the FIA will hold his hand during the very traumatic negotiations...........help wipe away the tears............

[markabilly]

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news/2007/10/Bietet_Toyota_150_Millionen_US-Dollar_fuer_Alonso_07101010.html

Omg, that is absolutely insane! 150 Million dollars (including 35 Mil $ per year) to get Alonso?!?! :eek:
Not if you consider they went insane to spend 20 million per year to get ralfie....the only thing crazier would be if FA did NOT ACCEPT it, unless he is getting some big bucks elsewhere

[Tazio]

Not if you consider they went insane to spend 20 million per year to get ralfie....the only thing crazier would be if FA did NOT ACCEPT it, unless he is getting some big bucks elsewhere
Flavio is probably the only principle left that Fred can't bluff, or generally jerk around.
Flavio is connected to the mob, and I don't mean the FIA.

[markabilly]

Flavio is probably the only principle left that Fred can't bluff, or generally jerk around.
Flavio is connected to the mob, and I don't mean the FIA.
So why turn down millions more from Toyota?

Is it fear that flavio will spank?

[Tazio]

So why turn down millions more from Toyota?

Is it fear that flavio will spank?
Beside the fact that they decided to go with Glock?

[Tazio]

"So if Fernando said this, it is because he has a reason to do so."

With the press now fascinated to know what team Alonso will drive for next year, Fittipaldi urged Ferrari to consider the 26-year-old Spaniard.

"If he went there, I think Ferrari would gain what they lost when Schumacher went away.

"Michael was really able to improve his cars and I think Alonso can do exactly the same.

"Without Schumacher, Ferrari has gone down, in my opinion. With Fernando, I can imagine Ferrari having the best car," he said.

http://www.feedmef1.com/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=8468

[Tazio]

Despite all of his off track machinations
I believe Fred is a rather clever fellow,
and a pretty cool shark

http://www.sportinglife.com/formula1/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=formula1/07/10/15/manual_122726.html

'But while the rumours continue, McLaren have already said there will be no word on Alonso's future until after they've held talks in the post-season.

Alonso, though, doesn't believe those talks are going to do his McLaren future any good.

"From what they've said and done it doesn't look as though they are very keen and that they've got enough with one of the two drivers that are here and I've no problem with that," he told the Associated Press.

"There are another 10 or so teams that are interested in me."


I'm guessing he isn't referring to ten teams of psychiatrists

[jens]

Didn't find a more suitable thread for that information, but...

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/63373

It looks like wishing to see Alonso at Toyota isn't as good idea as I first thought, because Jarno might get sacked as a result. :s

[janneppi]

The recent happy best friends act between Hamilton and Alonso got me thinking how much of all these comments were just a tactic from Alonso to see how much McLaren would actually bend over for him if he was about to leave the team?
Now when both Mercedes and Ron Dennis have come out saying Alonso isn't vital for the team, his bluff was called and he's had to backpedal his stance on leaving the team?

[Garry Walker]

The recent happy best friends act between Hamilton and Alonso got me thinking how much of all these comments were just a tactic from Alonso to see how much McLaren would actually bend over for him if he was about to leave the team?
Now when both Mercedes and Ron Dennis have come out saying Alonso isn't vital for the team, his bluff was called and he's had to backpedal his stance on leaving the team?

I see point in there. But Alonso has probably just realized that the Ferrari door is closed for him and so is the BMW door. Left are only Renault and McLaren out of possible choices and Renault doesnt have the resources of McLaren, they are unlikely to be as good as McLaren next year. I hope Ron forces Alonso to sit out next year, that would be funny.

[markabilly]

The recent happy best friends act between Hamilton and Alonso got me thinking how much of all these comments were just a tactic from Alonso to see how much McLaren would actually bend over for him if he was about to leave the team?
Now when both Mercedes and Ron Dennis have come out saying Alonso isn't vital for the team, his bluff was called and he's had to backpedal his stance on leaving the team?

Playing contract games although now that mercedes has allegedly decided what they allegedly decided, the "breach" may be on them....but since we will never know the contract fine print (probably) then who knows


AS to the new show from the press conferences on thursday it was real :love: --between FA and LH


but it may all be just like pro westling...where the best of buddies in private behind the scenes, in public act as the worst of enemies to stir up the masses and make them want to to pay big bucks to see the show....and those who really hate each other appear as the best of buddies for view of the public ......

or maybe the two children are just playing games with each other, trying to out-pysch ....

....sort of like FA saying "I don't want a special screwtineer,,,," "tire pressure, what tire pressure...." when deep inside he is thinking "I just wish he was somebody with some real heavy duty expertise who was at least smart enough to know how to check tire pressures"...." (and that is probably what he really meant when he referred to him as unnecessary but meaning a waste or useless)

and the wheels go round and round.....

[rohanweb]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7054952.stm

according to Williams tech.director Patrick Head..

[RaikkonenRules]

Fernando Alonso has not behaved "as a sportsman" and will leave McLaren at the end of the season, says Williams' engineering director Patrick Head.

"I would expect Alonso to either have a long time gardening next year or to go to another team," Head told BBC Sport.

"I suppose his relationship with McLaren boss Ron Dennis could be repaired, but I'd be surprised.

"I think it's unfortunate that it's got to this point, but that's the way it is," added the Williams co-founder.

"McLaren are a very, very fair team in the way they treat their two drivers.

"Fernando did not contemplate that there would be this young chap, Lewis Hamilton, who would be beating him, and he has reacted to that."

606: DEBATE
Who will win the title on Sunday?

Alonso goes into Sunday's final race of the season in Brazil trailing team-mate Hamilton by four points in the drivers' standings.

And while Head acclaimed Hamilton as "a hugely impressive" performer, praising him for being "adept at avoiding problems", he was less complimentary about Alonso.

"From what I've seen, it does not look to me, or to many people in the pit-lane, as if Fernando has handled himself particularly well as a sportsman," he said.


Head also moved to dismiss speculation that Williams driver Nico Rosberg will move to McLaren as a possible replacement for Alonso.
Head claimed the team were keen to provide Rosberg with a more competitive car next season that would give him the chance to challenge for podium positions, and perhaps a victory.

A shortlist of four candidates has been drawn up for the team's second seat, following the retirement of Alex Wurz.

[rohanweb]

"From what I've seen, it does not look to me, or to many people in the pit-lane, as if Fernando has handled himself particularly well as a sportsman," he said.

Patrick Head.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

pat has said the right thing!

[Dave B]

Everybody is saying that Alonson will leave McLaren, but until either him or the team announce it then it is unjustified to use the word "news".

[rohanweb]

well .. alonso better be leaving mclaren though..
certainly he will fit within a team where the team principal agrees that his teammate will be a sidekick & must be slower by atleast half a secondo..( also he reserves the right to stick up the team with blackmail,moan & groan)

great stuff.

[Ari]

All I'm reading is that Patrick Head is annoyed with Nando as he's likely said he has no interest in entertaining a contract with the ever reliable Williams outfit.

Anyone read anything else I missed?

[Valve Bounce]

Head also says that he expects Rosberg to replace Fernando at McLaren :Please don't forget that you had heard it from me first!!

[Valve Bounce]

;) Renault... no one else will have Alonso !!!

You got that right!! :up:

[Tazio]

I see point in there. But Alonso has probably just realized that the Ferrari door is closed for him and so is the BMW door. Left are only Renault and McLaren out of possible choices and Renault doesnt have the resources of McLaren, they are unlikely to be as good as McLaren next year. I hope Ron forces Alonso to sit out next year, that would be funny. Gary I respect your view, and I don't think it's likely that Renault has the resources of McLaren.
I doubt FA will sit out next season. And even if he has made provocations. There is nothing funny
about a team principle, forcing a reining wdc, or at the least giving a rematch against the guy
him a rematch, even if he is driving a car that this season is obviously off McLarens pace.
Next year Renault may be vastly improved,
partly owing to the fact that FA, like Schumacher Have an overall better game
when they are teamed with guys who through their own ability accept # 2,
to say nothing of the financial hit f1 would take if Fa didn't participate

[markabilly]

Head also says that he expects Rosberg to replace Fernando at McLaren :Please don't forget that you had heard it from me first!!


Gary I respect your view, and I don't think it's likely that Renault has the resources of McLaren.
I doubt FA will sit out next season. And even if he has made provocations. There is nothing funny
about a team principle, forcing a reining wdc, or at the least giving a rematch against the guy
him a rematch, even if he is driving a car that this season is obviously off McLarens pace.
Next year Renault may be vastly improved,
partly owing to the fact that FA, like Schumacher Have an overall better game
when they are teamed with guys who through their own ability accept # 2,
to say nothing of the financial hit f1 would take if Fa didn't participate

Benie knows millions are at stake, and bernard did not become "Billionair Bernard" letting others ruin his business, while he sat around and did nothing...a deal is a deal...and Brit fans should know the deal bout the Turkey GP, is just an example of BE twists and turn to put cash in his pocket.. .Flavio is his busniess partner

Who better than beneie to broker a deal....and how is it than benie knew about the emails.....2 plus 2 equals 4

No investigation into MAssa
No investigation/protest by ferrari...

FA is not screaming too much...FA does not seem to fired up for this race........

Conclusion is obvious:

Flavio has already used his business partner (Benie) to broker a deal with RD and FA to obtain the services of FA, but he will NOT be interfereing with HAmilton's bid in return for his freedom to race next year with Renault


Too MUCH MONEY is riding on the outcome of this race for benie to sit back and let FA ruin it all....remember even benie said that FA might be gardening next year...to encourage FA to play ball...

Even Patrick Head is busy trying to protect Rosberg from MAC or cut a really big deal for his services.....the word is out that fa is gone from MAc next year, and do you think that FA would be so content right now if he knew or even thought he will be on the sideline next year......

This post should be pure fantasy B**^%%S, but alas I fear not....

[Malbec]

Well, Ferrari is closed because Jean Todt is still there and he is no Alonso fan. What if he is removed and Ross Brawn becomes team manager at Ferrari? We are forgetting that is also a likely scenario. Would Brawn be more willing to form a Raikkonen-Alonso partnership?

I agree, the power struggles at Ferrari are key to this. Todt doesn't want Alonso but how much longer is he going to be there for? Massa is very much a Todt protege so it could be argued that Jean is fortifying his position at Ferrari by extending the Brazilian's contract, making it more expensive for Ferrari to get rid of him in favour of Alonso.

Alonso is fortunate that he brings a lot of Spanish money with him which can be used in some way to pay off the remainder of his contract at McLaren. Otherwise Renault would not be able to afford him. Also Alonso will need to take a pay cut to drive for the French team with Ghosn keeping a close eye on the team finances.

I can't really see any other team going for him except perhaps Toyota who look as if they are going to get rid of both drivers at the end of this year, why else would Trulli be testing for Spyker? Would Alonso go to Toyota in the hope that they finally get their act together?

[markabilly]

I agree, the power struggles at Ferrari are key to this.


Would Alonso go to Toyota in the hope that they finally get their act together?


NO HE would NOT go there based on that hope.....

BUT he would go there for the same reason anyone with a brain would go....if they would pay ralfie 20-25 million, they should pay atleast three times that much for the caliber of a double WDC who beat MS, not once but twice,...but I think Beneie is brokering a deal with Flavio and RD, to let FA go now back to renault...if he lets the WDC go to LH without a lot of fuss...

Bernie knows there may be billions to be made with Ham, or so he thinks, and bernei just can not keep his hands out of other poeple's pockets when he thinks there is money to be had....it is not a conspiracy, just greed that drives him on and made benie billionsmaking deals so what should change that now....

perhaps one should name the real F1 driver of the year--bernie's greed----- :vader: :s mokin: :vader:

[ArrowsFA1]

Pedro de la Rosa does not believe Fernando Alonso should leave McLaren:



"If you asked me what I would do in Alonso's shoes, I'd obviously say I'd stay at McLaren, because they have demonstrated to be a competitive team and Fernando is a born winner," de la Rosa was quoted as telling radio station Cadena Ser.
"Obviously, he must be happy with what he does, but there's nothing suggesting he's leaving; everyone is working as if Alonso will stay on."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63662