Who is setting up the car at McLaren???

[ioan]

First we have Fernando complaining that Lewis gets his setup for the races.

Now we have this from Lewy:


"Usually Fernando and I have similar set-ups, and more often than not it is the set-up I found from tests," he explained.

"I do the first day and a half, find a set-up and then Pedro (de la Rosa) or Fernando turn up and drive my car. Then they either like it or make some changes to it.

"So then we go to a race and we have got a very similar set-up or they have tweaked it a little bit. At the last race especially I went somewhere else on my set-up, thinking it was the right way and we were wrong.

"It was miles apart and, although I was not that far off his times, I feel that if my set-up was a lot further in the other direction it would have been a lot better.

"When you go through the Friday tests you haven't got much time to change it, or take big risks, so you go into qualifying and you are stuck with what you have got. You can't always get it right, and I definitely didn't get it right in the last races."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62737

[ratonmacias]

First we have Fernando complaining that Lewis gets his setup for the races.

Now we have this from Lewy:



http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62737


that is damage control by lewis. in my mind fernando and pedro setup the car and thats why since turkey (no more data sharing) fernando is kicking lewis`s ass.

[ioan]

I like this part:



"At the last race especially I went somewhere else on my set-up, thinking it was the right way and we were wrong.
It was miles apart and, although I was not that far off his times, I feel that if my set-up was a lot further in the other direction it would have been a lot better."

Ronspeak?! :D

[ChrisS]

more often than not it is the set-up I found from tests

where did F1 teams test? Sakhir, Sepang, Barcelona, Silverstone, Spa and Monza, 6 out of 17

How can he "more often than not" use his test setup when "more often than not" he didnt test?

[Spanish]

LH makes the Set-up, and later PdlR or FA proves it? Please, who has written that are drunk! but it seems absolutely incredible to me that Lewis has said that

[Spanish]

Let us be serious. :D

It could get to think to me that LH guessed right some Set-up (that already it is to have much imagination!), but I assure to you that FA does not rise in the LH car, nor although they pay to him.

Pd:Ioan, the drunk are the people of Autosport, not you, of course! ;)

[Tazio]

thats why since turkey (no more data sharing) fernando is kicking lewis`s ass. I'm not a member of the "Fred fan club" but I tend to agree with you.
I just think you should come to the point, and not mince your words!

in my mind fernando and pedro setup the car and thats why since turkey (no more data sharing) fernando is kicking lewis`s ass.

It may be relevant that in Hamilton's rise to Formula One, the only time he really did not shine was in his first season of EuroSeries F3 when he was not with the best team.

In Formula Renault UK & Formula Renault Europe, Manor were the best team and Hamilton dominated, but in F3 Euroseries ASM were the best team and with the Manor F3 squad Hamilton recorded just one win. Only when Hamilton switched from Manor to ASM in his second year in F3 did he return to the front.

In GP2, he went straight into the best team, ART, and again was straight at the front.

That, perhaps, says that if the BoyWonder does have a weakness, it is in car set-up?

[luvracin]

That, perhaps, says that if the BoyWonder does have a weakness, it is in car set-up?

Unfortunately, IMO, that is the worst weakness to have.

[King Stromba]

Its easy to speculate on what is going on inside mclaren from the tit bits of 'news' we do get.

I think detailed car set up is a special ability some drivers possess. We know schumacher had the ability, and we know that damon was 'good' at setting up a car. Senna was fanatical about the technical side of racing, and prost was the 'professor' of set ups. I think alonso also looks like he fits into this category of technically gifted people.

How Hamiltons career pans out in terms of car set up ability, i think we shall have to wait and see until he has a midfield car. I have faith in McLaren that we wont have long to wait.

[trumperZ06]

How Hamiltons career pans out in terms of car set up ability, i think we shall have to wait and see until he has a midfield car. I have faith in McLaren that we wont have long to wait.


;) I guess we will know... shortly !!!

[ArrowsFA1]

First we have Fernando complaining that Lewis gets his setup for the races. Now we have this...
Sounds straight forward. One driver starts the tests, works on setup, then the other drivers do more work, maybe change things maybe not. Information gained is then used for the race weekend to the benefit of the race drivers. It's how most teams work.

As Hamilton says it's risky to change setup too much from what is known because the race weekend doesn't give you much time to evaluate it. He obviously tried a change and it didn't work, as he is honest enough to admit.

Whichever setup is used at the races makes little difference. If Hamilton has been using Alonso's then he's done a better job with it. If he's used his own and struggled a bit then it's all part of the learning process which he'll put to good use as his F1 career goes on. Either way, and this is the bottom line, he remains the championship leader.

[leopard]

Pedro might try and do some set-up for Hamilton's car, so do Alonso, but not to find the peak performance of the car, yet to measure and ensure that he has the better set-up :)

[555-04Q2]

Who's setting up the car ??? The official "How to assemble your own Ferrari" manual ;)

[markabilly]

Who's setting up the car ??? The official "How to assemble your own Ferrari" manual ;)


Bingo! :D

[wedge]

It may be relevant that in Hamilton's rise to Formula One, the only time he really did not shine was in his first season of EuroSeries F3 when he was not with the best team.

In Formula Renault UK & Formula Renault Europe, Manor were the best team and Hamilton dominated, but in F3 Euroseries ASM were the best team and with the Manor F3 squad Hamilton recorded just one win. Only when Hamilton switched from Manor to ASM in his second year in F3 did he return to the front.

In GP2, he went straight into the best team, ART, and again was straight at the front.

That, perhaps, says that if the BoyWonder does have a weakness, it is in car set-up?

Schumi had a couple of bad years in his Ferrari, but that doesn't make him a bad driver or bad at setting cars up, does it? It was because the car package wasn't in top form to mount a title challenge.

It's the age old question, is it car or driver?

The best teams do well in championships like NASCAR, IRL down to the likes of FRenault is because they have better group of engineers and resources and can come up with a better package.

[markabilly]

Schumi had a couple of bad years in his Ferrari, but that doesn't make him a bad driver or bad at setting cars up, does it? It was because the car package wasn't in top form to mount a title challenge.

It's the age old question, is it car or driver?

The best teams do well in championships like NASCAR, IRL down to the likes of FRenault is because they have better group of engineers and resources and can come up with a better package.


despite my earleir comment bingo----the real secret to car set up is for the driver to drive consistent and thereby give good feedback to the engineer not merely through his description of the car feel, but far more importantly through the data acquisition system and computers through his consistent driving that permits the engineer to calcualte what is best.

If the driver is not being consistent, then it becomes very difficult to compare set ups....so the person who is really setting up the car is the engineer and his crew. If he not only gets consistent driving from the driver, but gets good vibes from the driver--that always helps

Before the thing known as "data acquisition" it really was up to the driver to use his feel for the car coupled with overall (not sector but overall) lap times to set up a car

[ioan]

despite my earleir comment bingo----the real secret to car set up is for the driver to drive consistent and thereby give good feedback to the engineer not merely through his description of the car feel, but far more importantly through the data acquisition system and computers through his consistent driving that permits the engineer to calcualte what is best.

If the driver is not being consistent, then it becomes very difficult to compare set ups....so the person who is really setting up the car is the engineer and his crew. If he not only gets consistent driving from the driver, but gets good vibes from the driver--that always helps

Before the thing known as "data acquisition" it really was up to the driver to use his feel for the car coupled with overall (not sector but overall) lap times to set up a car

Good points!

[markabilly]

And then there are simulators--in the late 60's and early 70's with the crudest of equipment and hydraluics, astronauts learned to suucessfully dock and fly spacecraft...such as the first time they did it "for real", they did it like they been doing it all their lives.


The mac simulator, as you can easily tell from the "email evidence" is so good that they do not need to drag the car to the track---they just stuff the settings into the car, and the track data info, have the driver sit down and they already know what they need as a base--the rest is fine tuning at the track

LH was suppose to have trouble at new tracks for him---but he shows up at Fuji and drives like he has already done a thousand laps there---WOW What talent, I would say, except he already has done probably even more laps than that with all sorts of different set-ups in something we know as the Mac simulator......................

[donKey jote]

hehe Alonso commented that their (his and LH's) chances were pretty much even for Fuji... since Lewis had done ~2000-3000 laps on the simulator :D

[janneppi]

Maybe Alonso should have done a couple of laps on it too. ;)

[jens]

With his own setup in tough conditions, where Lewis has had very little experience, and without the Saturday free practices... and still pole position. Simply great! ;)

[wmcot]

It's probably Lewis's dad setting up his car - that guy is everywhere!

[BeansBeansBeans]

It's probably Lewis's dad setting up his car - that guy is everywhere!

Don't forget that he is Lewis's manager and father. Most drivers have their manager and / or family members at Grands Prix. The TV cameras seem to follow Anthony Hamilton everywhere because he's a key part of the whole Lewis "Story".

Anyway, he still doesn't get as much airtime as Coulthard's manager :p :

[trumperZ06]

:p : Damn ioan, Thanks for starting this thread.

:D Lewis... using his own set-up... looked GREAT in qualifying!!!

;) I bet his Pole position... makes you PROUD... right on ioan !!!


Hhmmm... for the record... you've been "right"... once this year!!!

I'm beginning to think... that was a lucky guess !!!

:s mokin:

[markabilly]

Maybe Alonso should have done a couple of laps on it too. ;)

I wonder if he ever even goes to the factory anymore....Probably thinks it is too big a risk, with it being right in RD's backyard, he might run into RD in the hall and just accidentally say "Hi"


Funny about the pole celebration, as though RD has given the light to LH to "talk trash" and the team to ''demonstrate support" for their favorite, while meanwhile he can sit back and keep quiet. That should really be even more effective in running off FA than RD just coming out and saying............... :vader:

[rohanweb]

The answer is McLaren's one-thousand strong employees (engineers) sets up the car.

a driver's input probably less than a percentage.

FA statement of 0.6sec advantage he brought to the team single handedly is absurd and an insult to the hundreds of engineers @ the team..
Lewis probably a bit less experienced in terms of carsetup, but he is a good team player and will improve vastly from next year onwards,.!

[jens]

Okay then. Before Turkish Grand Prix Hamilton used Alonso's setups and was faster than the Spaniard, then the 2xWDC started complaining. After that Alonso got a slight advantage, but it has been clear that Hamilton is the one with more room left for improvement and now his setups are good enough to start beating FA again. What kind of strengths FA still possesses that might give him an advantage over LH?

[Flat.tyres]

that is damage control by lewis. in my mind fernando and pedro setup the car and thats why since turkey (no more data sharing) fernando is kicking lewis`s ass.

What total balls. :D

22 for FA and 27 for LH since Turkey.

Don't tell me, that was beforte the Japan GP where FA was blown away and you only want to use a 3 race period to base your claims on rather than the season.

Face it, Lewis has been consistently better over the season.

[tinchote]

that is damage control by lewis. in my mind fernando and pedro setup the car and thats why since turkey (no more data sharing) fernando is kicking lewis`s ass.

I'm interested in knowing your current opinion ;)

[leopard]

Whoever do the set-up, Hamilton might run his own instinct about setting the car mechanics has served him and proved that at the race noone can do any better, he do the best.

A blind pigeon may sometimes find a grain of wheat. :)

[Garry Walker]

The stupid notion that some people filth on about Hamilton taking Alonsos data is amusing, although it is also intellectually disturbing. Out of the last 4 races, LH has been better in 2 and worse in 2. And we can be pretty sure that there is no data exchange now.
Hamiltons team can easily manage on their own, a drivers importance in set-up is greatly overrated.

[Flat.tyres]

The stupid notion that some people filth on about Hamilton taking Alonsos data is amusing, although it is also intellectually disturbing. Out of the last 4 races, LH has been better in 2 and worse in 2. And we can be pretty sure that there is no data exchange now.
Hamiltons team can easily manage on their own, a drivers importance in set-up is greatly overrated.

:up:

[trumperZ06]

Hamiltons team can easily manage on their own, a drivers importance in set-up is greatly overrated.

:dozey: Hhmmmm... let's not "downplay" a driver's preference when setting up the car !!!

Kimi, early-on... struggled a bit at Ferrari, until Ferrari was able to set the car up to suit his driving technique !!!

;) For instance, One or two drivers like a touch of "over-steer"... in the corners, which is quicker, but much riskier than dialing in "under-steer", which most drivers prefer.

Brake balance also comes into play... especially if a driver's trail-braking at corner entry !!!

We may see even more driver's and engineer's...

setting up the Team's two cars differently next year...

when traction control is eliminated !!!

:s mokin: