Team orders?

[Sparky1329]

This is quite disturbing to me. In my opinion it is pure and simple cheating.

You can read the transcript of the radio transmission here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tom_bowles/09/25/chase.etiquette/index.html


This week in baseball, several clubs in critical pennant races will find themselves playing against teams doing nothing more than playing out the string.

Now imagine, if you will, those underdogs laying down their bats, refusing to field a team, and just forfeiting the win to the more competitive club, claiming there's no need to even compete since their opponent is the one who has something to play for.

Get the picture? If you do, then check out this radio conversation, obtained by SI.com, that occurred between Casey Mears, crew chief Darian Grubb and spotter Chuck Joyce in the final laps of last Sunday's race at Dover, the second of NASCAR's 10-race Chase for the Championship playoff. At the time, Mears was fifth, while Cup teammate and Chase contender Kyle Busch was nursing a damaged race car to sixth, on the lead lap but trying hard to gain as many points as possible:

Darian Grubb: "Alright [Casey], we're going to be sitting in 5th here ... and the No. 5 came in and pitted, he's got some damage. If he gets to us, we'll probably let him go on the last lap, let him get in front of us for that position. But if you can pass cars, pass cars."

Casey Mears: "10-4. Why is that? Just because of the points deal?"

Grubb: "Yeah, 10-4. It's only for one position there. We're racing the No. 16 ... so if you can pass the No. 8 and the No. 16 and go get that, we're all for it, but if we're not going anywhere and the No. 5 is still behind us, we'll give him that position."

Mears: "10-4. We've got pretty good tires here, so we should be able to go."

The conversation appears to indicate Mears had a car that could move to the front. But, fast forwarding to later in the radio transmission ...

[Jimmie48instyle]

May I ask the questions "how and why" you consider this to be cheating? I would appreciate your explanation, so that I could further provide a diplomatic comment.

[muggle not]

I find the situations sad. This is what the Chase has become. What Mears and Biffle were told to do hurts the integrity of the sport. Laying back and 'letting" a teammate further his position on the track is B.S. I wish there were more with Kyle Petty's attitude that he has as much right to contend as those in the Chase. Hamlin's opinion that he should be given the right-of-way because he is racing for 'bigger things" is another case of B.S.

Nascar is losing the old loyal fans and I expect the exodus to continue.

[Jimmie48instyle]

I find the situations sad. This is what the Chase has become. What Mears and Biffle were told to do hurts the integrity of the sport. Laying back and 'letting" a teammate further his position on the track is B.S. I wish there were more with Kyle Petty's attitude that he has as much right to contend as those in the Chase. Hamlin's opinion that he should be given the right-of-way because he is racing for 'bigger things" is another case of B.S.

Nascar is losing the old loyal fans and I expect the exodus to continue.


Yes, I do concur with your findings, especially your commentary directed at Hamlin, he's playing in the big leagues now, he needs to step up and be a man and handle critiquing the way a man should! I for one was proud of Petty for standing firm on his beliefs for the integrity and credibility of the sport. The commentating of ESPN is nothing short of deplorable, has introduced more drivers on the track each week more than the 43 racing. I can tell you what they can do with their "blue and orange wind tunnel segments", but I will be a lady and decline to offer an opinion!

As for Casey situation, I would not consider cheating, however, I am disgusted that Casey has to sacrifice his driving skills for a teammate because of Chase points, poor excuse for racing! I don't like what's become of Nascar, no longer is it a sport as defined. It's become a corporate juggernaut with high stakes and higher displaced egos.

[Jonesi]

I really don't have a problem with this situation. I would have more problem if he had been leading and was told let #24/48/5 car win. I would also have a greater problem if he had been told "absolutely don't let #20/18/etc pass you!"

[Sparky1329]

I find the situations sad. This is what the Chase has become. What Mears and Biffle were told to do hurts the integrity of the sport. Laying back and 'letting" a teammate further his position on the track is B.S. I wish there were more with Kyle Petty's attitude that he has as much right to contend as those in the Chase. Hamlin's opinion that he should be given the right-of-way because he is racing for 'bigger things" is another case of B.S.

Nascar is losing the old loyal fans and I expect the exodus to continue.

The exodus will continue if this sort of thing continues. I'm not among the fans who think the sport is "fixed" but this transcript gives those who think so a lot of vaild ammunition. It certainly cheapens the process.

[harvick#1]

its in all forms of racing, its the cheapiest most unsportmanslike move on any owner and drivers.

the way Dario won the IRL was just sick because of the Infineon race were his wing was damaged and TK blocked for Dario to stay in 3rd.

Team Orders are pathetic and should be dealt with the harshest punishments

[Speedworx]

I was livid on Sunday and I still am.

Team orders have no place in sport.

[Lee Roy]

Please spare me the nonsense that this is as a result of "The Chase". This type of thing was going on for years before "The Chase". This is a result of "teams", and if anyone thinks that there's anyway to stop teams from doing this kind of thing is naieve {sp}.

I recall in the late 80's or early 90's when all Dale Earnhardt had to do to win the championship was finish 42nd in the last race of the year. Richard Childress entered a car for Dale's good friend Neil Bonnett. Guess what, right after the start of the race, Neil had some kind of trouble with the car.

[wedge]

Please spare me the nonsense that this is as a result of "The Chase". This type of thing was going on for years before "The Chase". This is a result of "teams", and if anyone thinks that there's anyway to stop teams from doing this kind of thing is naieve

:up:

We're in that time of year where you gotta look at the bigger picture that is the championship

I think the Chase problem made this situation kinda a lot 'worse' (if that is the right word for it).

[Lee Roy]

:up:
I think the Chase problem made this situation kinda a lot 'worse' (if that is the right word for it).

I think you have a good point there about "the chase" making the same situation worse. Under the old system, by this time of the year, there were usually only 3 or 4 drivers with a chance for the championship, now we have 12. More opportunities.

[muggle not]

I think you have a good point there about "the chase" making the same situation worse. Under the old system, by this time of the year, there were usually only 3 or 4 drivers with a chance for the championship, now we have 12. More opportunities.
Jeez, if that is the objective then why not wait until the last race and let all 43 cars race for the win and then declare him /her Champion. :rolleyes:

[RaceFanStan]

NASCAR may give drivers, crewchiefs & team owners fines & point penaltys but .....
a finishing position is never changed, break a rule, pay a fine but keep the position ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
The success of a driver could depend upon a driver's team-mate's ability to help him .....
the driver's actions are mostly controlled by NASCAR & the recent actions have been tolerated ..... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
team orders will continue because NASCAR will allow them to continue, it's part of the "show" :s

[Lee Roy]

Jeez, if that is the objective then why not wait until the last race and let all 43 cars race for the win and then declare him /her Champion. :rolleyes:

Don't give Brian any ideas. ;)

[Old3Fan]

team orders will continue because NASCAR will allow them to continue, it's part of the "show" :s

Racing used to be about racing. Now it is a show. How Sad. :(

[jslone]

First a driver has to race to be in the chase,now this?I will still watch,but this just sucks,but what can be done though?

[blakebeatty]

This is no different than letting a team mate by to lead a lap for five bonus points. I guarantee this kind of thing is everyere in the sport. It's not like anyone has been told to pull over and give up a win though... team orders can be a lot worse thatn what we have seen in NASCAR so far

[Lee Roy]

It's not like anyone has been told to pull over and give up a win though... team orders can be a lot worse thatn what we have seen in NASCAR so far

That happened in Formula One a few years ago. Rubens Barrichello was leading the race and he was told to let his teammate Michael Schumacher, who was running second at the time, win. Rubens was not subtle about it, he just pulled over on the last lap and let Michael by. People were up in arms over that.

Then one year at the USGP (with me in attendance), Schumacher had led just about every lap and Barrichello was a respectable second. Coming to the flag, Schumacher slowed so they could cross the line together, but Barrichello was marginally ahead of Schumacher at the line and wound up winning. The attendees were not pleased at all.

[tstran17_88]

That happened in Formula One a few years ago. Rubens Barrichello was leading the race and he was told to let his teammate Michael Schumacher, who was running second at the time, win. Rubens was not subtle about it, he just pulled over on the last lap and let Michael by. People were up in arms over that.

Then one year at the USGP (with me in attendance), Schumacher had led just about every lap and Barrichello was a respectable second. Coming to the flag, Schumacher slowed so they could cross the line together, but Barrichello was marginally ahead of Schumacher at the line and wound up winning. The attendees were not pleased at all.
Has this been consistent with all F1 teams...or has it only been Ferrari? Ever since I’ve been following F1, I’ve always wondered about Ferrari's tactics.

Schumi spinning out in front of Alonso during qualifying last year at Monaco to keep him from taking P1 is another example that I can think of.

I’m not sure I buy into Ferrari’s accusations that McLaren was spying either.

[Lee Roy]

Has this been consistent with all F1 teams...or has it only been Ferrari? Ever since I’ve been following F1, I’ve always wondered about Ferrari's tactics.


Mostly Ferrari as I can tell, or maybe the other teams are more subtle. ;)

[Erki]

That happened in Formula One a few years ago. Rubens Barrichello was leading the race and he was told to let his teammate Michael Schumacher, who was running second at the time, win. Rubens was not subtle about it, he just pulled over on the last lap and let Michael by. People were up in arms over that.

Then one year at the USGP (with me in attendance), Schumacher had led just about every lap and Barrichello was a respectable second. Coming to the flag, Schumacher slowed so they could cross the line together, but Barrichello was marginally ahead of Schumacher at the line and wound up winning. The attendees were not pleased at all.

They both took place in year 2002. :)