Kartworld 2008

[mattie007]

I have just been told that Kartworld will run the MG's next year for Fiona and Jason and they would like to add a third car. This has been reported in one of the motorsport magazines this week.
This is great news for me and the MG clan but I know alot of people can't wait to see the back of them because they are getting on a bit.
As Jason is selling his Karting business, hopefully that will extract some funds for some engine tweaks.
Or maybe MG's new owners are helping out?

[Alfa Fan]

It was in MOtorsport News 2 weeks ago. Kartworld hope to run 3 MGs next year.

[SEATFreak]

mattie007
I have just been told that Kartworld will run the MG's next year for Fiona and Jason and they would like to add a third car. This has been reported in one of the motorsport magazines this week.
This is great news for me and the MG clan but I know alot of people can't wait to see the back of them because they are getting on a bit.
As Jason is selling his Karting business, hopefully that will extract some funds for some engine tweaks.
Or maybe MG's new owners are helping out?

I am wondering how much longer MG can continue to run before it is totally eclipsed.

You sugest the possibility of the owners helping out. Why would the Nanjing Automobile Group to invest in a touring car team with no real long term future?

[SEATFreak]

Double Post

[mattie007]

Why have they 'no real long term future'? Surely moving to a 3 car team shows the ambition for the future? Kartworld have steadily improved and if they can bring in an experienced racer for next year who knows the MG inside out *cough* Reidy *cough*, then they could be on a par with teams like Motorbase.
NAC have said motorsport is key to there plans, so this would be an ideal opportunity for them. They are already using an MG ZR in the WRC.

[peewhee]

Kartworld hope to run 3 MGs next year.

Why???

[peewhee]

double post........

[VkmSpouge]

Well it would mean another car on the grid, one in the right hands that is still capable of scoring points.

[dwboogityfan]

Good news. I think the MG's have been great cars in the BTCC and it will be good if we can add another driver to the grid. Would love to see Reidy back in the MG but think Rob Collard is perhaps more likely.

[SEATFreak]

mattie007
Why have they 'no real long term future'? Surely moving to a 3 car team shows the ambition for the future? Kartworld have steadily improved and if they can bring in an experienced racer for next year who knows the MG inside out *cough* Reidy *cough*, then they could be on a par with teams like Motorbase.
NAC have said motorsport is key to there plans, so this would be an ideal opportunity for them. They are already using an MG ZR in the WRC.

Admitedly I didn't know they had plans on entering a third MG with you-know-who(!) but I think what I meant was as a team would the NAC want to back Kartworld or give some form of help?

You suggested that the new owners could be helping out.

[PDS]

I also believe the MG has passed it's sell by date! Please let it fade into history with it's (cylinder) head held high..

Jason would do better to buy some more reliable S2000 cars for 2008.

[MG2004]

How comes the manufacturers can only run two-car teams nowadays but an independent like Jason can run a 3-car team?

It'll be great if this comes off. I'd love to see Reidy or Rob Collard back in the MG for another year. I don't agree that it is past it's sell-by-date. It was still acpable of winning races last year against the Integras - and the integras are still looking pretty handy tody.

[PDS]

It was still acpable of winning races last year against the Integras
Different team, different drivers, more reliable engine and a huge difference in budget!

[VkmSpouge]

So therefore it isn't past its sell by date, it just needs a more competitive team with better budget. I suspect if Team Eurotech had an MG they would still be doing a very good job (though not quite as good as with the Integra).

[peewhee]

suspect if Team Eurotech had an MG they would still be doing a very good job (though not quite as good as with the Integra).

Which is obviously why they have two Integra's instead of two MG's!

[CarlMetro]

So therefore it isn't past its sell by date, it just needs a more competitive team with better budget.

It has been proven in the past that even if you throw enough money at something, it doesn't necessarily make it better, take a little look at Toyota F1 for a perfect example ;)

Personally I think they should now be laid to rest and agree that Jason would be better of buying 2 decent 2007 cars than trying to run 3 2003 cars.

[VkmSpouge]

Hughes and Kartworld would be better off by using 2007 car rather than machines that had been last updated in 2006. Guess it would come to a question of funds.

[thetrooper_uk]

I think the MG was I good car in the right hands but that was a good few years ago. Why they are content to run cars between the middle and back of the grid is beyond me. As times change so must the car. It's like saying let's enter the Vauxhall Cavalier because it's a good car, yes it was a great car but it would not be able to complete competitively in today's BTCC. Surely they must realize this and update their cars.

[SEATFreak]

I think the MG was I good car in the right hands but that was a good few years ago. Why they are content to run cars between the middle and back of the grid is beyond me. As times change so must the car. It's like saying let's enter the Vauxhall Cavalier because it's a good car, yes it was a great car but it would not be able to complete competitively in today's BTCC. Surely they must realize this and update their cars.

I think that's what I meant in my last post when I said they had no real long term future.

Of course they have a long term future. As a team that will still be in the BTCC. As a team that has the possibility to gain strenth and momentum as an Independent team and possibly become a Team Eurotech or a Motorbase or even a Team RAC however, I don't think they have.

For as long as they compete with the ZS I think they will be performing as they pretty much are now. A possible worst case senario, which I don't see it coming to, being they may even start to fall down the field. I liked the ZS a lot when it was run by WSR. But who here sees a strong future for the ZS? I don't. To me it is fading away as a competitive car.

If the report is true, next year STCC cars can be bought by BTCC teams with no need to change. Kartoworld needs to be involved in that.

[mattie007]

I see what you mean now SF. Sorry if I sounded abit abrupt.
As an MG fan, its nice for me to hear they may be back next year but it has been quite disapointing to see them running in the mid and backfields after 6 good seasons at the front with WSR.
If they get an experienced driver then the MG will still be good next season. At then end of the day Jason has managed many 10 ten finishes in one of the biggest ever BTCC grids, so it shows it has some life left IF they can pump some money into it next year.

[peewhee]

At then end of the day Jason has managed many 10 ten finishes in one of the biggest ever BTCC grids, so it shows it has some life left IF they can pump some money into it next year.
I think what people are trying to tell you is that for Jason to keep getting those top ten finishes, he WILL have to more money into the cars... Just for a top ten finish!

[SEATFreak]

I see what you mean now SF. Sorry if I sounded abit abrupt.

I's OK mattie. You didn't sound abrupt. Also, I understand too. It will take lots of space to explain everything that is on your mind. That is why I don't like cutting down space too much. Not everything you mean is on the screen and it will be easy for others to assume the wrong things.


As an MG fan, its nice for me to hear they may be back next year but it has been quite disapointing to see them running in the mid and backfields after 6 good seasons at the front with WSR.
If they get an experienced driver then the MG will still be good next season. At then end of the day Jason has managed many 10 ten finishes in one of the biggest ever BTCC grids, so it shows it has some life left IF they can pump some money into it next year.


I think what people are trying to tell you is that for Jason to keep getting those top ten finishes, he WILL have to more money into the cars... Just for a top ten finish!

I am afraid you will have to go over that last bit again about Jason having more money into the cars.

But could the money be better spent on two old VXR Sport Hatches or two ready-to-go STCC cars rather than a new ZS or improving the ZS's they have? I don't know how much they will cost but if they are affordable to Kartworld then could they go for two Opel Sport Hatches, or two Audi's or two BMW's?

[btccbryn]

im a fan to of the kartword team i would love to see them with some new cars for 2008 dont know i think haveing a third driver would really be the key issue i would of thought they would have been better putting the money into the two cars they have thats if they are going to keep them another little thing that confuses me and it doesnt take much but the few comments made on when jason does sell the karting buisness which in my opinion is one of the best in the country bit of free advertisment there but when he does sell it should he really be putting the majority of the money back into his raceing team or is the expense of the team split with fiona and whoever backs her.

[Iain]

No matter how much money they pump into the ZS, it's clearly nearing the end of it's development cycle. I think the final part of the jigsaw that made the car a regular winner and podium finisher was the suspension work WSR did on it in 2006. Anymore significant development work would require a big investment and that wouldn't really be a viable proposition for a small team like Kartworld.

[mattie007]

Well, to my surprise we will have at least one ZS next year, being run by Paul Luti of Dreadnaught . So if Kartworld stick with the Zed and add a 3rd driver we could see 4 MG's next year! Shows people still have faith in the old dog!

Copied from Xpower-mg.com

Paul Luti of Dreadnoughts garage is about to secure a WSR MG BTCC racer from Sunbury and should be competing with it in 2008.

The car will be run by Dreadnought with assistance from WSR at race meetings.

To find out more log onto http://www.paulluti.com and show Paul that you are keen to see the MG ZS race into victory in 2008.

I'm positive that Paul will surprise a few people out there as long as he's not punted off!

[VkmSpouge]

That post on other forums is saying Luti's car is an EX261, which year does that mean it was built in?

[Alfa Fan]

That would make it '03 spec

[Iain]

Might be of 2003 origin, but it could well be the latest car WSR have. They still have Colin's car from last year waiting for someone to drive it.

[Alfa Fan]

Yeah. AFAIK no new cars were constructed after 2003 were they? The 04 ZS' were just 2 2003 cars upgraded?

[mattie007]

I was told Paul has bought Colins 06 car?? Turks wanted it, but its better that it will be raced!
How many ZS's are out there still? I assumed WSR had 4. Colin bought one, so I guess the other 3 are now in the ownership of Jason, Fiona and Paul?

[Captain VXR]

will the 3rd Kartworld MG be the white one if it happens?

[CroftPilgrim]

[quote="MG2004"]How comes the manufacturers can only run two-car teams nowadays but an independent like Jason can run a 3-car team?
QUOTE]

AFAIK Manufacturers can run as many cars as they want BUT they can only nominate 2 cars to score points in the Manufacturers championship. SEAT paid for 3 entries in 2007 but the third one (Car no 22) never materialised.

Also, I note that the Paul Luti entry is NOT guaranteed - his website makes it quite clear that it is subject to sponsorship. I hope he's successful in getting the cash though - any new entries are most welcome! He seems to have done well in the series he has raced in so far...

[BDunnell]

SEAT paid for 3 entries in 2007 but the third one (Car no 22) never materialised.

That's not to say it won't at Thruxton.

[CroftPilgrim]

Very true!

Do you have any info on that?

[Iain]

will the 3rd Kartworld MG be the white one if it happens?

There is no white one. The white one was resprayed black last year.

[WSRfan82]

Nah the MG's have still got what it takes to win races. ok its getting on now nearly 7 years old but hell if it still got it why change i think kartworld have done a fabtastic job and have done the MG ZS proud if i had my own team id use the MG myself still strong in my eyes :D

[BDunnell]

Very true!

Do you have any info on that?

No, afraid not.

[CroftPilgrim]

No, afraid not.

Well, now we know - as another thread on this forum states, it's Tom Coronel

[Croz]

I am a MG fan but have to admit the ZS is coming to the end of its racing life at this level. For the ZS to be further up the grid it would require a complete overhaul. The car was built in 2003 and lasted updated in the 2006 season by WSR who have had a great run with it. No offence to Jason and Kartworld but i think without manufactors support or a big enginnering company like Williams there is no way it can move up the grid. It was the same with the ageing Vauxhall Astra Coupe, a fantastic car run by 888 but when Enkle-sport bought two and looked at running them there age and overhaul that is required was too great.

It's time to let the ZS drift away and remember the good times that the car had, rather than an ageing car trying to catch the rear of the pack.

[VkmSpouge]

It's time to let the ZS drift away and remember the good times that the car had, rather than an ageing car trying to catch the rear of the pack.

I would point out that Jason Hughes was in the midfield this season rather than at the back but anyway considering the newer cars being bought by teams around Kartworld it would probably be sensible to switch to something younger.

[Croz]

sorry, It wasn't a dig at Jason. What he has acheived is good. All that i ment was without a major overhaul or manufactor backing the MG's will only fall further behind.

[VkmSpouge]

sorry, It wasn't a dig at Jason. What he has acheived is good. All that i ment was without a major overhaul or manufactor backing the MG's will only fall further behind.

That's true, they're falling further away from the points as everyone getting newer machinery in.

[Croz]

With top cars like Chevolets and more BMW's adding to the already established cars such as RAC BMW's, VXR Vectra's and more Integra's floating around i think its just time to move on. The ZS was brilliant in it's day but it was made nearly 5 years ago, alot of people change there road cars more often than that.

I'd like to see Jason and Fiona show there skills in a newer car that they can use to move up the grid and become regular top 10 finishers.

As far as the third car goes i think it will be to much to soon. VXR ran 3 cars in 2006 and had alot of problems getting them sorted for race set ups. And lets be realistic Kartworld looked like they were having problems last year, due to the fact they have the smallest amount of team members.

2008 could be a good year if they buy 2 S2000 cars and begin to develop them for the 2009 season. But i'd love to see Jason and Fiona move up the grid more often. A couple of Leons might not be such a bad idea. Or Chevolet still have 2 WTCC cars for sale.

What ever they decide i wish them luck!

Did Jason manage to see the Karting Circuit?

[mattie007]

All that i ment was without a major overhaul or manufactor backing the MG's will only fall further behind.

Or if a top driver gets behind the wheel it would still be a top 10 car. Dreadnaught and Paul Luti would be on a par with WSR in terms of getting the MG competitive.
Colin proved it a top 3 car just a year ago.
Maybe Kartworld shoudl move on, but you have to admit jason has done very well with the limited resources.

[tdb]

What you all need to take into account is, when WSR ran the cars, A, They built and developed the cars with a lot of financial backing, full time engineers and a Judd engine deal.
B,The last lot of engines that came out of Judd were made up from all the bits left in stock, not development parts as part of the programme of onward development.

And C, Development on a WSR level has now ceased, so anybody running a rover now will not acheive what WSR have.

Also it would be foolish to spend too much money on the cars when S2000 is what the future is set to be.

[SEATFreak]

What you all need to take into account is, when WSR ran the cars, A, They built and developed the cars with a lot of financial backing, full time engineers and a Judd engine deal.
B,The last lot of engines that came out of Judd were made up from all the bits left in stock, not development parts as part of the programme of onward development.

And C, Development on a WSR level has now ceased, so anybody running a rover now will not acheive what WSR have.

Also it would be foolish to spend too much money on the cars when S2000 is what the future is set to be.

All those things a lesser fan would easily overlook when considering BTCC teams and the MG ZS.

In short I think not only has development on the ZS, as point 'C' indicated, ceased on a WSR level, it has also ceased period. Even shorter, I think the ZS is no longer a viable option.