Hamilton is showing his true skills.

[ratonmacias]

the way i see it Alonso made all this fuss because Hamilton was beating him by using Alonsos set up skills.

now that Hamilton hasnt been using alonsos setup you see his true level of driving which is still good but not enough to beat alonso.

i dont dislike Hamilton but in my view the only way drivers should share telemetry is where there`s a clear policy not when they are fighting for a title.

[Tazio]

the way i see it Alonso made all this fuss because Hamilton was beating him by using Alonsos set up skills.

now that Hamilton hasnt been using alonsos setup you see his true level of driving which is still good but not enough to beat alonso.

i dont dislike Hamilton but in my view the only way drivers should share telemetry is where there`s a clear policy not when they are fighting for a title.
I am in complete agreement with this post!
Good show.

[yodasarmpit]

It also looks like the pressure might be getting to him a little, still a fantastic talent, especially to be leading the WC in his first year still.

[BeansBeansBeans]

The fact that they are no longer sharing set-up data may well be a factor, buy I'd say it's more likely that Alonso's experience is coming into play.

The fact that he's successfully fought two title battles already probably gives him a psycological advantage over Hamilton.

If Alonso beats Hamilton this year, it will still have been an astounding debut season for Hamilton, and he can only get better in the coming years.

[jens]

At the Turkish Grand Prix Hamilton was forced to find the setup on his own too, but was very competitive throughout the weekend. Hamilton hasn't recently shined as much as earlier, but he has been very close to Alonso. Also I think that at setting up his car, Lewis can get only better, so we can't rule out that in the next races he might start finishing ahead of Alonso again. But at the moment I also do have the feeling that Alonso has the best chances to win the WDC.

[ratonmacias]

[quote="jens"]"At the Turkish Grand Prix Hamilton was forced to find the setup on his own too, but was very competitive throughout the weekend"... untilhis tire blew up because his set up was too demanding on the tire.

many drivers can set up a fast car but a few can set up a fast car for the whole race. want another example? heidfield vs kubica.

[Tazio]

What I see here is two guys with extraordinary talent fighting it out on the same team!
It (spygate aside) is an incredible, epic battle!
I've watched Fred long enough to believe he is not a guy who cottons to having a co-driver on equal footing with him (opinion)
I am starting to think that LH may be similarly inclined(speculation)
This thing could reach critical mass.
Having said all that, I think at this point in their respective careers, Fred is just a tad better.

[OTA]

Agree 100%. LH and FA seem to be equally ambitious, with all the potential to be a classic. I bet to FA for this one, but I honeslty don't know after this one.
Cheers
David

[Roamy]

good one rat!!
+ thiesen is to dumb that he got rid of a guy faster than Nick. I am really glad they are all gaining on BMW.

alonso is the real deal but he still has a job to overhaul.

[ratonmacias]

good one rat!!
+ thiesen is to dumb that he got rid of a guy faster than Nick. I am really glad they are all gaining on BMW.

alonso is the real deal but he still has a job to overhaul.

thiessen cant stand people that have more star power than him thats why he chased away jv out f1 and jpm out of williams and why he brought the unknown kubica. but hey this a hamilton thread. he must feel like the coyote of the cartoons that is about to be hit by 2 ton anvil called alonso now that alonso just sets up 1 car.

[F1boat]

Hamilton is still a fantastic driver. But he is a human being and he makes mistakes. Like Alonso in Montreal or Massa in Malaysia. Maybe the pressure is really on.
But it is still a fantastic championship. For him and for the fans.

[Valve Bounce]

the way i see it Alonso made all this fuss because Hamilton was beating him by using Alonsos set up skills.

now that Hamilton hasnt been using alonsos setup you see his true level of driving which is still good but not enough to beat alonso.

i dont dislike Hamilton but in my view the only way drivers should share telemetry is where there`s a clear policy not when they are fighting for a title.


Maybe Pedro can help him out here. :p :

[wedge]

FA and LH have 2 different driving styles. LH can drive the car with oversteer, whereas FA likes to have mid-corner understeer.

I've noticed that LH is great at handling the car over lower speed corners but has a bit of a problem with high speed corners. Sometimes LH can get away with oversteer but is detrimented by the McLaren's tendency to be hard on its tyres, hence there have been times when LH struggles to find the sweetspot with tyre pressures during the race and pitstops. Silverstone was a good example of this scenario - NB. FA had new rear-end package for that race, LH didn't.

There has also been times when having a car a bit nervous doesn't seem to work and I found this to be the case at Spa.

Whomever is WDC, LH has done a heck of a job. They're almost equal but FA has more experience of setting up an F1 car than LH.

[F1MAN2007]

the way i see it Alonso made all this fuss because Hamilton was beating him by using Alonsos set up skills.

now that Hamilton hasnt been using alonsos setup you see his true level of driving which is still good but not enough to beat alonso.

i dont dislike Hamilton but in my view the only way drivers should share telemetry is where there`s a clear policy not when they are fighting for a title.

Totally agree with you.

[Jag_Warrior]

Hamilton isn't using Alonso's (Ferrari) setups any longer?

[Mark]

This is the part of the season where experience comes into play. Alonso has loads of experience of world championship fights, Hamilton has none, at least in F1.

But basically speaking Hamilton needs to beat Alonso at at least 2 of the next 3 races, otherwise his championship is finished.

[markabilly]

"At the Turkish Grand Prix Hamilton was forced to find the setup on his own too, but was very competitive throughout the weekend"... untilhis tire blew up because his set up was too demanding on the tire.

many drivers can set up a fast car but a few can set up a fast car for the whole race. want another example? heidfield vs kubica.


Exactly!!!!

[markabilly]

This is the part of the season where experience comes into play. Alonso has loads of experience of world championship fights, Hamilton has none, at least in F1.

But basically speaking Hamilton needs to beat Alonso at at least 2 of the next 3 races, otherwise his championship is finished.

If certain folk get their way, and some castrophe of some nature does not happen before, this is the result

LH will beat FA---- Will happen at the last race, when the charges for commercials and revenue are at their highest...it may be as with JV and Damon Hill, where the right rear wheel pops off because it was not properly tightened...or the engine pops.....or the fuel man suddenly has a jam as he goes to insert the hose... :eek:

This is all about a movie called "A Knight's Tale" where if the final stage is set, then LH will vanquish the swarthy Spanish villian to the cheers of the crowd..... :D :D

the only question as to how to get it to that stage for the final scene.... :confused:

[tinchote]

the way i see it Alonso made all this fuss because Hamilton was beating him by using Alonsos set up skills.

now that Hamilton hasnt been using alonsos setup you see his true level of driving which is still good but not enough to beat alonso.

i dont dislike Hamilton but in my view the only way drivers should share telemetry is where there`s a clear policy not when they are fighting for a title.

That's interesting, because if one is led to believe that, it means that LH is faster than FA when driving a car with the same setup. Really interesting.

[ratonmacias]

That's interesting, because if one is led to believe that, it means that LH is faster than FA when driving a car with the same setup. Really interesting.

which i fully believe with the premise(sp) that alonso sets up both cars. if you give them an equal crew and car with no setup and each driver has to develop a setup and then race alonso wins 8 or 9 out of 10.

thats why alonso was so cranky when your only advantage (set up skills) has to be shared it becomes unfair at least in my view.

its like last year when jv had all the base settings for kubicas bmw. he was closer to nick than this year that kubica has to setup his car on his own.

[wedge]

which i fully believe with the premise(sp) that alonso sets up both cars. if you give them an equal crew and car with no setup and each driver has to develop a setup and then race alonso wins 8 or 9 out of 10.

thats why alonso was so cranky when your only advantage (set up skills) has to be shared it becomes unfair at least in my view.

its like last year when jv had all the base settings for kubicas bmw. he was closer to nick than this year that kubica has to setup his car on his own.

Everyone thought Ferrari had an advantage because of the BS tyres but the McLaren is now a title winning car, FA can't have #1 status so he's pushing for any advantage he can get within the team. Alonso benefitted from LH's set-ups because he was struggling with the BS tyres. He started off the year with his similar Renault driving style but it doesn't work on the McLaren. Monaco onwards he drives with a more neutral race car, struggling with oversteering tendencies but corrected this with mid-corner understeer.

Kubica too struggled with tyres this year. He too had to change his aggressive driving style and was working on car set up. Heidfeld adapted better because of his smooth driving style and the BS' small margin for error on the limit.

[ratonmacias]

Everyone thought Ferrari had an advantage because of the BS tyres but the McLaren is now a title winning car, FA can't have #1 status so he's pushing for any advantage he can get within the team. Alonso benefitted from LH's set-ups because he was struggling with the BS tyres. He started off the year with his similar Renault driving style but it doesn't work on the McLaren. Monaco onwards he drives with a more neutral race car, struggling with oversteering tendencies but corrected this with mid-corner understeer.

Kubica too struggled with tyres this year. He too had to change his aggressive driving style and was working on car set up. Heidfeld adapted better because of his smooth driving style and the BS' small margin for error on the limit.


i find it hard to believe that alonso used hamiltons set ups because if that was true then ron dennis could have told alonso to shut since he also has used lewis`s setups instead of allowing alonso to not share his setups.

[OmarF1]

The only thing teammates should share it's girlfriends, just to give them something else to fight for.

In all of this..Hamilton has been superb, Alonso, as usual, if Alonso wins this, He can say "I beat the fastest and rawest speedster on F1, the 7 times WC and the best rookie ever, if that don't get his name on the history books I don't know what could.

If Hamilton wins, World's not over for Alonso, I mean it is not a shame to lose to somebody who is really good, I mean, it really would be a shame if he has lost to Yamamoto or Alex Yoong or Jean Deniz Deletraz, then he should be ashamed, but if he loses to Hamilton he won't be forgotten, Senna lost to Prost and Prost lost to Senna, where's the shame of losing against a great driver? Schumacher lost in '98 to Mika, when Mika was the 90's Button, yeah that finnish dude that took a big bunch of races to even win one that eventually turned into a 2xWDC.

Enjoy F1, even when you find it hard because of the likes of Bernie, Max, Ron, Jean or Flavio, they don't race they just shake hands get money, well in the case of Flavio he dates models aswell, and gets them pregnant but that's all.

cheers.

[Garry Walker]

He started off the year with his similar Renault driving style but it doesn't work on the McLaren. Monaco onwards he drives with a more neutral race car, struggling with oversteering tendencies but corrected this with mid-corner understeer.


Oh do tell me where you got that from.

[markabilly]

Originally Posted by wedge http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=350081#post350081)
He started off the year with his similar Renault driving style but it doesn't work on the McLaren. Monaco onwards he drives with a more neutral race car, struggling with oversteering tendencies but corrected this with mid-corner understeer.

Oh do tell me where you got that from-Oh do tell me where you got that from.
Wedge is really otherwise known as a certain engineer, don't you know? :D

[Garry Walker]

Wedge is really otherwise known as a certain engineer, don't you know? :D

BS engineer (I dont mean Bridgestone)?

[markabilly]

BS engineer (I dont mean Bridgestone)?
Actually he has some pretty good ideas about how things work, when he is not blinded by certain loyalties.....I wonder if he is MC incognitio..... :D

[Trqster]

I always said that in the end Hamilton would crack under the pressure for fighting WDC title in his rookie year, mistakes would start to be made and Alonso would come out on top.
Nevertheless he's still the best rookie in F1's history and after this year's experience under his belt who knows what he might be capable of next year...

[wedge]

Oh do tell me where you got that from.

Just observations from the onboard cameras this year.

Alonso has admitted to struggling with adapting to BS tyres so. It required some adaptation of driving style.

If you can offer alternative opinions with that superior knowledge of yours GW, I'm quite happy to be proven wrong. :)

[janneppi]

Now now kiddies, get some lollipops and go play in the corner with your barbies and lay off the personal stuff.

[jimjan]

on other forums many have said that hamilton was just in a good car and not a good driver

two simple points of reference
fishicella was never as close to alonso when both were at renault [plus did he ever lead alonso in points][/*:m:1442aaii]
what has barricello done since leaving ferrari [is he as close to driver champ leader as when he was on same team with m. schumi][/*:m:1442aaii]GO LEWIS!!

[Flat.tyres]

I just had to read this thread again with a smile on my face.

New track and Alonso was sooooo owned. With all his "experience" you would have thought that Freddie would have put it on pole with the lighter car and used his experience in the torrential conditions to move into the lead of the WDC. Yet we saw one of the finest drives in a wet weather race from anyone, ever!!

Loved it :D

[Garry Walker]

Now now kiddies, get some lollipops and go play in the corner with your barbies and lay off the personal stuff.

If you want posters to respect you and take you seriously as moderator, then showing such condescending attitude is not a very clever thing to do.

[janneppi]

At times the attitudes of members towards each other don't merrit any thing more than a condesceding attitude. ;)
I get irritated just as anyone else.

[Mintexmemory]

I just had to read this thread again with a smile on my face.

New track and Alonso was sooooo owned. With all his "experience" you would have thought that Freddie would have put it on pole with the lighter car and used his experience in the torrential conditions to move into the lead of the WDC. Yet we saw one of the finest drives in a wet weather race from anyone, ever!!

Loved it :D

So: no FA set up, pressure really on, new circuit and world's media in hyperdrive.
At least the guy has integrity and loyalty on his side
Interesting how the Iberian contingent have disappeared back into the woodwork this morning :p :

[Hondo]

At times the attitudes of members towards each other don't merrit any thing more than a condesceding attitude. ;)
I get irritated just as anyone else.

Don't worry, me and my dog still like you. It's a lonely job at the top.

[BDunnell]

At times the attitudes of members towards each other don't merrit any thing more than a condesceding attitude. ;)
I get irritated just as anyone else.

:up:

[Ian McC]

At times the attitudes of members towards each other don't merrit any thing more than a condesceding attitude. ;)
I get irritated just as anyone else.

Well you knew this when you started, at least you didn't sign anything, oh, you didn't sign anything when you started did you? Oh dear, if you did they've got you now! :p :

[ratonmacias]

I just had to read this thread again with a smile on my face.

New track and Alonso was sooooo owned. With all his "experience" you would have thought that Freddie would have put it on pole with the lighter car and used his experience in the torrential conditions to move into the lead of the WDC. Yet we saw one of the finest drives in a wet weather race from anyone, ever!!

Loved it :D


no couldnt do because ron has said both have the same fuel at the beggining of all q3 sessions. and hamilton went first out at japan.