Congrat's Ferrari WCC

[Tazio]

Ferrari 1-2
Fred gets his beat-down on lew
Perfect!

[ICKE]

Our boys secured the championship in perfect style.

FORZA FERRARI ! CAMPIONE DEL MONDO!!! :p :s mokin:

[yodasarmpit]

And here was me thinking you had to win more points than the other team to be WCC.
Wining by default really isn't winning, it must be a feel like a hollow victory for the guys back at Maranello.

[Viktory]

amazing one-two and the right team won the constructor's championship. Well deserved.

Forza Ferrari!

[F1boat]

I will wait to see whether McLaren will appeal. But I am very happy with the Ferrari 1-2. Go Ferrari!

[ioan]

And here was me thinking you had to win more points than the other team to be WCC.
Wining by default really isn't winning, it must be a feel like a hollow victory for the guys back at Maranello.

Because the others tried to cheat their way to it and were stopped? :rolleyes:
Nice logics there!

[jens]

Kinda strange way to win the WCC, to be honest. This title came almost undetectedly and incidentally. A win in tight competition would create more satisfaction and emotions, but congrats anyway! :up:

[mstillhere]

Wining by default really isn't winning, it must be a feel like a hollow victory for the guys back at Maranello.

So, winning by cheating is more honorable?

[BeansBeansBeans]

Congratulations :up:

Although I'm sure they would have preferred to triumph in different circumstances.

[ioan]

We could keep counting the points for the WCC till the end of the Championship. What if Ferrari still would get more points even with McLaren scoring points till the end?!

[ioan]

So, winning by cheating is more honorable?

For some McLaren fans it is for sure. :s

[BeansBeansBeans]

We could keep counting the points for the WCC till the end of the Championship. What if Ferrari still would get more points even with McLaren scoring points till the end?!

That, like McLaren, would be pointless :p :

I'm not trying to denigrate Ferrari, I'm merely suggesting that they would have preferred to take the title in dominant fashion on the track, as in previous years.

[yodasarmpit]

So, winning by cheating is more honorable?
All I'm saying is that, at no point during this season have McLaren used any technology other than their own to gain points, Ferrari have not scored as many points in races as McLaren, so I'm assuming the Ferrari guys won't be as happy as they would if it had been a straight on the track fight.

[ioan]

I'm not trying to denigrate Ferrari, I'm merely suggesting that they would have preferred to take the title in dominant fashion on the track, as in previous years.

I agree with you.

[ioan]

All I'm saying is that, at no point during this season have McLaren used any technology other than their own to gain points,...

The opposite came to light last Thursday.

[veeten]

or from the movie 'Grand Prix', when asked by the reporter about the win at Monaco, and the aspects therin that it was gained, Jean-Pierre Sarti (Yves Montand) replies, "There is no terrible way of winning, there is only winning".

This is Formula 1, get used to it. Everyone else has...

[Tazio]

or from the movie 'Grand Prix', when asked by the reporter about the win at Monaco, and the aspects therin that it was gained, Jean-Pierre Sarti (Yves Montand) replies, "There is no terrible way of winning, there is only winning".

This is Formula 1, get used to it. Everyone else has...
Sweet!

[Valve Bounce]

Our boys secured the championship in perfect style.

FORZA FERRARI ! CAMPIONE DEL MONDO!!! :p :s mokin:

What!! they beat Sauber?? Big Deal!!

[markabilly]

What!! they beat Sauber?? Big Deal!!


It was a big deal!!!

Do you have any idea how much work and effort it takes to get the italian police to do anything?????? :vader:

[lszinser]

Congrats Ferrari! I loved watching FA school LH, and I don't even like FA. It is just that McLaren lost constructors points, but the drivers should have at least had points deducted (30pts) since they directly benefited from the info received.

[MAX_THRUST]

I wouldn't call that winning in style....More like a cloud of controversy. Perhaps Ferrari can get its team and staff to behave as loyal as some of their fans next year and not give away dossiers so the opposition can be excluded from the championship.

There is no glory in this years constructors championship, however the still is a chance for Ferrari in the Drivers.

[MAX_THRUST]

The italian olice are great it just depends how much you pay them.......

[Flat.tyres]

Congrats Ferrari! I loved watching FA school LH, and I don't even like FA. It is just that McLaren lost constructors points, but the drivers should have at least had points deducted (30pts) since they directly benefited from the info received.

:rolleyes:

FA has schooled a rookie that is leading him and has done so for most of the season. I can see why you are a Ferrari fan with logic like that :p :

Second comment on your post is about where the drivers themselves gained this advantage you speak of? As far as I know, only Alonso and PdlR had any knowledge of the data and Lewis had none. I don't think there was any evidence that data had been used or that any benefit had been incorporated. The only person that tried to benefit was Alonso with his attempt to manipulate the team with an alledged attempt of blackmail. I would echo a demand to sanction such actions and throw the little weasle out of the championship but Max has prevented actions against a guilty person and even gone so far as to further threaten McLaren if they dfecide to discipline an employee who's illegal and unethical actions contributed to having his team thrown out of the Constructors Championship and incurring the equilivant of a $100m fine.

It seems that Fernando is the blue eyed boy of the FIA and under Max's protective wing. I suppose they would get on well together and that Freddy has the sort of temprament for Ferrari after all.

[seppefan]

So, winning by cheating is more honorable?


No it is not and Mclaren have paid a huge penalty for getting involved with a Ferrari employee who had turned against the team for some reason but Mclaren should have told the FIA about one week earlier according to what I can deduce.

However, Ferrari would have been happy to win the Championship with a moving floor which they knew was illegal.

[F1boat]

It passed the tests. It was legal.

[555-04Q2]

There is nothing to congratulate. Ferrari were gifted the WCC. Even as a Ferrari fan they won nothing in my book.

[Ranger]

There is nothing to congratulate. Ferrari were gifted the WCC. Even as a Ferrari fan they won nothing in my book.

Agree 100%. 2007 will be remembered as the WCC McLaren lost through their own foolishness, and not the title that Ferrari won.

[Flat.tyres]

Agree 100%. 2007 will be remembered as the WCC McLaren lost through their own foolishness, and not the title that Ferrari won.

:up:

[markabilly]

:rolleyes:



Second comment on your post is about where the drivers themselves gained this advantage you speak of? As far as I know, only Alonso and PdlR had any knowledge of the data and Lewis had none. I don't think there was any evidence that data had been used or that any benefit had been incorporated. .


Go back and read the evidence, and then consider the set-up used by LH which for many races was identical to FA.......or the gas in the tire....or the blistering that occurred to LH front tires and then resultant failure when LH did not use the same set up as FA.... :confused:

P.S.--in this case justice was NOT blind, but as to stupid...welll...

[Bagwan]

I kinda get the feeling that when Fernando told Ron he'd grass him up , Ron really was in the dark about how deeply involved the team was at the time .

That's perhaps why they still get along .

And , since Max has said that he believes that when he spoke to Dennis in Hungary , that Ron wasn't lying , what is the point of threatening Ron with sanction if he penalizes Alonso ?


Will $100million slow them down ? Maybe they should tack on another $100million or 2 . That'd do it . They'd be slow then .

[gcc]

All I'm saying is that, at no point during this season have McLaren used any technology other than their own to gain points, Ferrari have not scored as many points in races as McLaren, so I'm assuming the Ferrari guys won't be as happy as they would if it had been a straight on the track fight.

Yet another demonstration of stringent logic! They are guilty of braking article 151c but they are not really guilty after all because they didn't copy anything from Ferrari. Had you taken the pains of reading the FIA sentence, you'd have realized that you don't have to copy a device from another car to gain an advantage. Forgotten how some of the e-mail messages between Delarosa and Alonso went? Just to refresh your memory (quoted from memory): " ... the informations from Mike are reliable 100%. They come from Stepney .... the guy who told us in Australia that Kimi would stop on lap 18 ...." or, this other message from Pedro to Coughlan: "Hi Mike. Can you tell us the weight-distribution of the red car? It would be important for us to know so that we can test in in the simulator."

[Bagwan]

If Max told Ron he would punish him if he punished Fernando , does that mean that Alonso gets to keep his set-up to himself , or does he have to share the red info now ?

Did Alonso get what he wanted , in the end ?

[Hondo]

Well done to Ferrari! You have done a fine job of securing the Plaintiff's World Championship!

[Valve Bounce]

Well done to Ferrari! You have done a fine job of securing the Plaintiff's World Championship!


McLaren were not the only losers - we the F1 fans lost big time in a season which we were enjoying until the shyte hit the fan. Now, even wins by hte McLaren drivers will not mean that much to me anymore.

[truefan72]

:rolleyes:

FA has schooled a rookie that is leading him and has done so for most of the season. I can see why you are a Ferrari fan with logic like that :p :

Second comment on your post is about where the drivers themselves gained this advantage you speak of? As far as I know, only Alonso and PdlR had any knowledge of the data and Lewis had none. I don't think there was any evidence that data had been used or that any benefit had been incorporated. The only person that tried to benefit was Alonso with his attempt to manipulate the team with an alledged attempt of blackmail. I would echo a demand to sanction such actions and throw the little weasle out of the championship but Max has prevented actions against a guilty person and even gone so far as to further threaten McLaren if they dfecide to discipline an employee who's illegal and unethical actions contributed to having his team thrown out of the Constructors Championship and incurring the equilivant of a $100m fine.

It seems that Fernando is the blue eyed boy of the FIA and under Max's protective wing. I suppose they would get on well together and that Freddy has the sort of temprament for Ferrari after all.

:up:


Yet another demonstration of stringent logic! They are guilty of braking article 151c but they are not really guilty after all because they didn't copy anything from Ferrari. Had you taken the pains of reading the FIA sentence, you'd have realized that you don't have to copy a device from another car to gain an advantage. Forgotten how some of the e-mail messages between Delarosa and Alonso went? Just to refresh your memory (quoted from memory): " ... the informations from Mike are reliable 100%. They come from Stepney .... the guy who told us in Australia that Kimi would stop on lap 18 ...." or, this other message from Pedro to Coughlan: "Hi Mike. Can you tell us the weight-distribution of the red car? It would be important for us to know so that we can test in in the simulator."

:down:

What is worse in your book,
possesing knowledge of another teams IP and not using it in any anyway. The same knowledge, only provided in oral form to other teams by other engineers with the moniker of the "knowledge coming from their head"
In no way benefiting on trach whatsover!

Or
in full knowledge of the rules, deliberately using an illegal movable floor, a movable wing, a variety of illegal parts over the years and GAINING an Illegal advantage on the track. And then having the FIA change the rules to bring the parts into compliance.

If/when Ferrari are found guilty of an infraction on their car that proves to be illegal, I hope ( just wishful thinking) that the FIA will show the same due process to them as they did to McClaren.

This years WCC is a laughable joke. They should polish it and display the trophy proudly in their legal department.

[GP-M3]

Congrats Ferrari!... McLaren lost constructors points, but the drivers should have at least had points deducted (30pts) since they directly benefited from the info received.

Ditto

[gcc]

:up:



:down:

What is worse in your book,
possesing knowledge of another teams IP and not using it in any anyway. The same knowledge, only provided in oral form to other teams by other engineers with the moniker of the "knowledge coming from their head"
In no way benefiting on trach whatsover!

Or
in full knowledge of the rules, deliberately using an illegal movable floor, a movable wing, a variety of illegal parts over the years and GAINING an Illegal advantage on the track. And then having the FIA change the rules to bring the parts into compliance.

If/when Ferrari are found guilty of an infraction on their car that proves to be illegal, I hope ( just wishful thinking) that the FIA will show the same due process to them as they did to McClaren.

This years WCC is a laughable joke. They should polish it and display the trophy proudly in their legal department.


You are desperately trying to see only what you want to see. Denial is not going to make the sentence go away. In any case, you still fail to understand the legal concept here. It is really a very basic point of logic: if you are found guilty, then you are guilty; you can't be "just a little bit guilty". In other words, if you are caught with a gun in your hand, happily firing away while chasing your worst enemy ... does you enemy need to be dead before you are arrested, thrown in the slammer and eventually found guilty of attempted murder? Needless to say, if your worst enemy were found dead with a bullet in the head, you would rightly be considered prime suspect.
McLaren were shown to be in possession so, they were found guilty. Incidentally, this is not only an FIA regulation, it is also going to be a matter for the civil courts and they can be found guilty there too. FIA were pushed into leniency and tried the story of "benefiting on the track". This, if you want to pay attention to the evidence, backfired too because it was demonstrated that Mike Coughlan was supplying this information to members of the team. He replied to De la Rosa's request with messages jam-packed with technical data. This is known as premeditation. Do you think he kept the info to himself and Pedro, without making it available to LH's crew?

As for your other comment on the floor used in the Australian GP, I think this has already been dealt with in this thread: it was tested by FIA techs and passed the test.

[gcc]

The italian olice are great it just depends how much you pay them.......


I wouldn't call that winning in style....More like a cloud of controversy. Perhaps Ferrari can get its team and staff to behave as loyal as some of their fans next year and not give away dossiers so the opposition can be excluded from the championship.

There is no glory in this years constructors championship, however the still is a chance for Ferrari in the Drivers.

Oh, great! So, it is Ferrari's fault if McLaren were cheating! Great logic this. Also, what's with the Italian cops? Do you have any experience with them?

[F1boat]

McLaren probably won't appeal:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62524

[MAX_THRUST]

You have clearly no grasp of Italian/European politics and how corrupt the Italian goverment and police force is percieved to be, by the rest of Europe.

Twisted logic maybe, but having worked for the companies I have and having access to priveledged information on a daily basis, that can effect many financially or otherwise, it is clear that Ferrari are lacking somewhere if information like this can seep out....It does happen in F1, but shouldn't. If other industries associated with F1 can keep there cards close to their chest then why can't Ferrari.

Why would Stepney feel the need to pass information across. These are the questions as a Ferrari Fan you should be asking.

[gcc]

I guess I can rest my case here.

[MAX_THRUST]

**** Off!!

[F1boat]

How many days McLaren have till the right to appeal expires?

[schmenke]

McLaren were not the only losers - we the F1 fans lost big time in a season which we were enjoying until the shyte hit the fan. Now, even wins by hte McLaren drivers will not mean that much to me anymore.

Agreed. As a long time F1 fan, I will always remember this season as the one that redirected my attention to the CCWS :mark:




P.s. congrats Ferrari... I guess...

[airshifter]

Unfortunately, for all of those unbiased in the IP situation, neither the WCC or the WDC will be held in any high regard. As much as I hate to admit it, even if Hamilton wins the WDC I will always wonder if he also got information he may have benefitted from.

[Flat.tyres]

Airshifter.

Bearing in mind that he stated that he hadn't to the FIA, if Lewis had ANY information and didn't declare it, Alonso would have dobbed him in quicker than the speed of light.