No Standing Starts !!!!

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Someone on the SpeedTV message boards suggested the IRL is considering standing starts for its road and street courses next year.

If this is true, I hope they DO NOT end up doing it. I think the IRL drivers have shown the skill to do flying starts and get through turn 1 fairly cleanly.

We don't need no stinkin' standing starts.

Leave the standing starts to Formula 1 and Formula 1 wannabe series'.

The IRL has to retain a little bit of its past culture.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Maybe this hasn't occured to you, but standing starts are more exciting? Just maybe, if you took off your little IRL beanie and started actually paying attention to f1, Atlantics and the wannabe f1 series, you might notice that standing starts on road courses do actually work quite well while adding a spectacle. That, and they are a damned sight fairer and often better executed by 20 cars than a rolling start on a road course. I have seen some awful IRL rolling starts on road courses my friend.....


The IRL's past culture is ovals and racing on Indy....stick to that as your past culture,but when in Rome, do as the Roman's do. On road courses, standing starts are great to do....

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Just maybe, if you took off your little IRL beanie ....


IRL BEANIE !!!! Where do I get one of those ?????? YEAH YEAH !!!

[xtlm]

"Maybe this hasn't occured to you, but standing starts are more exciting?"

This is a matter of opinion

I tend to like rolling starts more

While I think f1 starts are fun, I am not the biggest fan of the champ car starts...

[DBell]

Maybe this hasn't occured to you, but standing starts are more exciting? Just maybe, if you took off your little IRL beanie and started actually paying attention to f1, Atlantics and the wannabe f1 series, you might notice that standing starts on road courses do actually work quite well while adding a spectacle. That, and they are a damned sight fairer and often better executed by 20 cars than a rolling start on a road course. I have seen some awful IRL rolling starts on road courses my friend.....


The IRL's past culture is ovals and racing on Indy....stick to that as your past culture,but when in Rome, do as the Roman's do. On road courses, standing starts are great to do....

Agree with you Mark, especially about the part of it being fairer. I always hated that with a rolling start at a place like Surfers, the front of the grid would be braking into the first turn while the back rows would just be starting to accelerate onto the straightaway.

[Andrewmcm]

Someone on the SpeedTV message boards suggested the IRL is considering standing starts for its road and street courses next year.

If this is true, I hope they DO NOT end up doing it. I think the IRL drivers have shown the skill to do flying starts and get through turn 1 fairly cleanly.

We don't need no stinkin' standing starts.

Leave the standing starts to Formula 1 and Formula 1 wannabe series'.

The IRL has to retain a little bit of its past culture.

I tend to agree, rolling starts are a traditional American trait of OW races (at least for us Europeans anyway). I always enjoyed the rolling starts of both the IRL and CART/CCWS, and found that some of the novelty of CCWS was taken away when they moved to standing starts.

Keep the rolling starts I say.

[Easy Drifter]

Ovals will require rollers. Road courses have advantages and disadvantages. Standing starts on road courses tend to be fairer to the back cars. However, there is always the danger of a car near the front stalling and getting rammed at high speed. This can be literally fatal and has.
Having expeienced both I personally favour standing starts as I was always planning my moves to gain several spots. (Usually lost several.)

[OWChicago79]

Maybe we can get a standing start for indy this year. Last years start was awful.

[Mark in Oshawa]

"Maybe this hasn't occured to you, but standing starts are more exciting?"

This is a matter of opinion

I tend to like rolling starts more

While I think f1 starts are fun, I am not the biggest fan of the champ car starts...


Their rolling starts are worse. At a place like Detroit this year, I can tell you that the back of the field is not even aware of the green flag without being told while the front 6 are checking out.

Champ Car has had no messups or wrecks with the standing starts this year, and once underway, have actually made for a more compact field in the opening laps. That is the fairest thing you as a fan can reasonably ask for. Rolling starts make sense on ovals, but the reality is, on road courses they are part of that reality. The shorter pit straights and the accordian effect of the field in a rolling start just isnt' fair at all to the back of the field.

[Komahawk]

I'd prefer standing starts on the non-ovals as well. It's a great opportunity to make up positions on tracks on which passing is very difficult and rare otherwise. And it keeps the field from getting too spread at the beginning already.
However if there's somebody making a jumpstart he/she ought to get penalized. That was a problem in CC this year.

The vast majority of the schedule still takes place on ovals and there should and will always be rolling starts.

EDIT: The fact that F1 has been doing it forever doesn't make it bad. And it doesn't mean IRL is copying F1. It's just a matter of trying to improve the show, and there's always pros and cons. BTW, I hope they really reconsider about those shifting paddles.

[71minus2]

Standing start vs Rolling Start

I prefer standing starts

Pro's
The crowd at the start/finish line gets to hear 20+ cars revving the arse of their engines before demonstrating just how fast they can accelerate!

As mentioned above - they are fairer, especially on street courses when the last 2 or 3 rows can still be round a corner and several seconds away from being able to floor the throttle.

Immediate battling for position not just into the first corner.

Cons's
They can be very dangerous if a car stalls near the front of the grid

The cars at the front of the grid can be sat for ages getting hotter and hotter

Clutches can burn out easier, especially if there is a second formation lap and start procedure.

I think that the CCWS were very clever in their decision to introduce standing starts. IRL should look at the possibility of testing this at one race, see how the fans like it.

Richard,

[Mark in Oshawa]

Richard...you don't understand, the IRL mentality has often been to do the opposite of what CCWS/CART has done. The fact they are now running a series that is resembling CART more and more is however evidence that there is hope.

I think they wont do standing starts until they realize that maybe their starts are often so bad that someone will complain, and maybe THEN they will look seriously at the issue. If I am running a team that is 15th on the grid, and we are at Belle Isle, I would be nuts to not complain about it because by the time my driver gets on it out of the last corner, the leaders are already into 2. Lets face it, on ovals, rolling starts are the way to go but standing starts are now part of CCWS, Atlantics, Mazda's, World Challenge, f1 and most OW series in Europe and Asia. It is very "American" to have a rolling start, but the reality is OW series on road courses have slowly been adopting the rolling start more and more....and there are no real downsides to it UNLESS someone stalls, and it is pretty remarkable how many people avoid wrecks in those situations.

[Cass]

I don't think that the IRL should adopt standing starts unless they can do it in the following manner.

Only allow the top teams to pre-test it, such as the aero test at Iowa, only allow AGR, Ganassi and Penske to do it that way tech can be determined and worked on in advance with more data. I think that the teams with testing should also be allowed to run the mechanical assist steering racks as well to help them keep the car alligned easier if they slide side to side under acceleration.

Otherwise, yes, standing starts are great to watch.

[CCFan]

I don't think that the IRL should adopt standing starts unless they can do it in the following manner.

Only allow the top teams to pre-test it, such as the aero test at Iowa, only allow AGR, Ganassi and Penske to do it that way tech can be determined and worked on in advance with more data. I think that the teams with testing should also be allowed to run the mechanical assist steering racks as well to help them keep the car alligned easier if they slide side to side under acceleration.

Otherwise, yes, standing starts are great to watch.

So you favor a scenario that gives the top teams in the league even more of an advantage over the have-nots?

[nigelred5]

Standing start vs Rolling Start

I prefer standing starts

Pro's
The crowd at the start/finish line gets to hear 20+ cars revving the arse of their engines before demonstrating just how fast they can accelerate!

"As mentioned above - they are fairer, especially on street courses when the last 2 or 3 rows can still be round a corner and several seconds away from being able to floor the throttle."

ABSOLUTELY. Nothing has bothered me more than seeing the first two "rows" of cars at full speed taking the green while the last few rows haven't even rounded the final hairpin at Long Beach.


Immediate battling for position not just into the first corner.

Well, that tends to happen before the green in rolling starts ;)

Cons's
They can be very dangerous if a car stalls near the front of the grid

However that hasn't been the case in CCWS. The stalls have actually been in the rear.

The cars at the front of the grid can be sat for ages getting hotter and hotter


"Clutches can burn out easier, especially if there is a second formation lap and start procedure."

How many standing starts does a car do in the average oval race leaving the pits?

I think that the CCWS were very clever in their decision to introduce standing starts. IRL should look at the possibility of testing this at one race, see how the fans like it.

Richard,

I agree, choose the right places. Definitely St Pete, Mid Ohio and the Glen. Sonoma is pretty hard the way there is no real level road or strait at the s/f line. I suppose you could grid them back a little futrther, past the exit of the last turn towards the pit entrance. Detroit would probably work out alright though the run from the s/f to the first turn is a little short.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Is it me or do the Dallara/Hondas tend to fishtail when they leave the pits from a dead stop? Watching my replays of pit stops the cars' back ends want to swap places with the front end. Something traction control would fix ??? How is this prevented in order to get a straight line start from standing stop ?

[BoilerIMS]

Is it me or do the Dallara/Hondas tend to fishtail when they leave the pits from a dead stop? Watching my replays of pit stops the cars' back ends want to swap places with the front end. Something traction control would fix ??? How is this prevented in order to get a straight line start from standing stop ?

Two reasons:

1) The driver usually has the steering wheel full right
2) No traction control this year

If they held the wheel straight there would be much less fishtail; it can never be eliminated completely without traction/launch control.

That said, I think the rolling starts are fine. F1, lots of touring series, ChampCar have standing starts. Are they exciting? Yes. Rolling starts are exciting as well, with the pole driver getting the opportunity to 'psyche' the rest of the cars. One thing I don't like about IRL rolling starts (this applies more to restarts) is the control the lead driver gets. When the start cone is so downtrack, there is way too much control in that driver's hands. I say keep the procedure the same, just put the restart cones closer to start/finish.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Two reasons:

1) The driver usually has the steering wheel full right


Oh DOH! I totally forgot that they have the wheel full right . That would be logical. I feel a little silly.

[Cass]

So you favor a scenario that gives the top teams in the league even more of an advantage over the have-nots?

Yes. There should be a reward for being dominant and the IRL provides it to the stronger teams. The IRL has provided this type of reward on other occasions - first compatibilty test in Iowa last year, this years Aero test. Penkse drivers were first to sample the Belle Isle course - to make sure it worked ok......

If a small team doesn't like the way it is, they should join the big leagues and steal / sign their competition. Break open the bank! Winning takes money, how fast do you want to spend!

Chip knows it. He bought Wheldon, he bought Dario....each time picking at AGR. Chip is the best. I'm sure his two current drivers are going to be moved to GrandAm shortly to make a run at that title, and he will sign two others from the paddock in IRL - thus weakening the opposition just a bit more. Smart thinking!