So, will the FIA penalise Renault

[Flat.tyres]

McLaren got slaughtered for having information that wasn't implemented on the car.

Renault have 3 parts (possibly 4) that came from McLaren. (Wonder where they got them from ;) )

Don't ask for a link

[Ranger]

Depends how loud McLaren screams (Renault aren't a title challenger to McLaren, so I don't suppose too loudly, but they would be fully justified to).

However, after this recent dilemma I'm sure the FIA will conveniently dismiss this as it is putting the sport in a bad light.

[markabilly]

Machiavelli would say NO, unless somehow the roar of whining reaches the volume equal to or in excess of Ferrari about Mac, with such bad PR that it threatens revenue

Plus a formal complaint needs to be filed by mac at this stage to really get it going otherwise it will just die off.....besides ferrari had the Italian police doing some heavy duty work......


Remember that unlike RD, Flavio is a business partner of Bernie ernei

McLaren got slaughtered for having information that wasn't implemented on the car.

Renault have 3 parts (possibly 4) that came from McLaren. (Wonder where they got them from ;) )

Don't ask for a link

That very much depends on if there is any substance to the accusation (has anyone from Renault got his wife to photocopy a 780 page dossier?) or if it is just a case of a proven team of cheats mud-slinging in a pathetic attempt at damage limitation.

[mstillhere]

Depends how loud McLaren screams (Renault aren't a title challenger to McLaren, so I don't suppose too loudly, but they would be fully justified to).

However, after this recent dilemma I'm sure the FIA will conveniently dismiss this as it is putting the sport in a bad light.

I instead think that for the sake of consistency, the FIA should try to find out more, McLaren willing/interested or not.

[jso1985]

agree, I think the FIA should not wait for a team to complain to start investigating

[Flat.tyres]

That very much depends on if there is any substance to the accusation (has anyone from Renault got his wife to photocopy a 780 page dossier?) or if it is just a case of a proven team of cheats mud-slinging in a pathetic attempt at damage limitation.

Is there any need for the deliberatly inflamatory tone? 3 people at McLaren were guilty for discussing secrets and obtaining data. That hardly constitutes a "team of cheats".

The difference between the McLaren and Renault cases is that one team discussed data and another actually used it.

Which is worse?

[jens]

Here have been questions that whether FIA should also punish Renault and Ferrari. Also Toyota, who had a similar case a few years ago... Etc, etc. :p :

Actually I think Spyker should use a genius strategy, how to win the WCC. :p : Colin Kolles should give a specific and secret task to 10 of his employees, who will send some secret Spyker documents to other teams. Each employee takes one team. Later Spyker will bring action against all the teams as they have taken a look at their documents and maybe even used them. So the points of all the other teams will be nullified and Spyker wins the WCC!! Hooray! :hot: :p :

[ioan]

Is there any need for the deliberatly inflamatory tone? 3 people at McLaren were guilty for discussing secrets and obtaining data. That hardly constitutes a "team of cheats".

They all lied that they knew nothing about it. A team of cheaters, no doubt!

[ioan]

Here have been questions that whether FIA should also punish Renault and Ferrari. Also Toyota, who had a similar case a few years ago... Etc, etc. :p :

Actually I think Spyker should use a genius strategy, how to win the WCC. :p : Colin Kolles should give a specific and secret task to 10 of his employees, who will send some secret Spyker documents to other teams. Each employee takes one team. Later Spyker will bring action against all the teams as they have taken a look at their documents and maybe even used them. So the points of all the other teams will be nullified and Spyker wins the WCC!! Hooray! :hot: :p :

They might not be able to win anything without an engine! :p :

[Flat.tyres]

They all lied that they knew nothing about it. A team of cheaters, no doubt!

I find it ironic that a Ferari and Schumacher fan has the gall to gloat over this matter. If the FIA were unbiased, then Ferrari would be bankrupt with the amount of cheating they have been involved with over recent years.

One day though, they will get caught with their hand well and trully in the cookie jar with enough evidence in the public domain to force the FIA to take the sort of action they have over McLaren.

[Big Ben]

This trial has been nothing but a joke. They punished McLaren for two emails that mentioned Ferrari. 2 in 6 months, that were sent before the famous document was stolen. And as far as I understans this kind of information is really not so much of secret as some try to pretend it is. My own opinion is that McLaren got punished for something that is routine in F1 just because Ferrari wanted to. The meeting Coughlan, Stepney and Fry had proved the kind of commitment both had for their teams and had been a proof that both may act in such circumstances in their own personal interest.

[Osella]

eu, perhaps if you actually read the FIA evidence you will see that there were a lot of sporting and industrial secrets in the dossier, the emails were send AFTER the dossier was received by Stepney, and they were also benefitting from Ferrari information passed to them from before Australia and using that to their advantage, plus using the dossier info, so there is a lot of evidence against them. Not only that, but they did not make it clear to the WMSC just how significant a role Coughlan had in McLaren's entire design and development process, and which direction they should pursue and allocate budget to etc, which they decided could not but help be influenced by Coughlan knowing which areas they were behind Ferrari in, even if he had not 'analysed the documenty in an engineering sense'

As for Renault, it will be interesting to see whether McLaren pursue this if a certain Spanish driver moves back there from McLaren.... ;)

[markabilly]

eu, perhaps if you actually read the FIA evidence you will see that there were a lot of sporting and industrial secrets in the dossier, the emails were send AFTER the dossier was received by Stepney, and they were also benefitting from Ferrari information passed to them from before Australia and using that to their advantage, plus using the dossier info, so there is a lot of evidence against them. Not only that, but they did not make it clear to the WMSC just how significant a role Coughlan had in McLaren's entire design and development process, and which direction they should pursue and allocate budget to etc, which they decided could not but help be influenced by Coughlan knowing which areas they were behind Ferrari in, even if he had not 'analysed the documenty in an engineering sense'

As for Renault, it will be interesting to see whether McLaren pursue this if a certain Spanish driver moves back there from McLaren.... ;)


Actually what it will take is proper police work putting pressure on the FIA.

It was not merely loud whinig by Ferrari, but thos writs and search warrants being served and so forth, that was probably far more scary to max and others than any whining.... :eek:

Is there any need for the deliberatly inflamatory tone? 3 people at McLaren were guilty for discussing secrets and obtaining data. That hardly constitutes a "team of cheats".

The difference between the McLaren and Renault cases is that one team discussed data and another actually used it.

Which is worse?

Where is your evidence that Renault used it? in case the events of the last three months have passed you by, there needs to be evidence....you know, like a test driver blabbing in an email that the info has come from a person in another team? Now that is evidence.

At the moment, Renault have yet to be investigated and so no definitive statement as to proof can be claimed. Since you spent the last three months with the argument that there was no proof to prove Mclaren were guilty, the very least you should do is take the same stance regarding Renault....that is, if you wish not to show the very same bias you say the FIA shows.

Since Mclaren have been found guilty of fraudelent behaviour and fined and deducted points under Sporting Code 151c, then they are officially a team who cheat.

You might find that an inflamatory statement, though I prefer the word 'fact'.

[ArrowsFA1]

Don't ask for a link
Since you didn't ask:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62512

:p

Since you didn't ask:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62512

:p



The difference between the McLaren and Renault cases is that one team discussed data and another actually used it.

The Autosport article states that the FIA have yet to receive an information from Mclaren.

How can anyone therefore announce definitively that Renault have actually used it?

[trumperZ06]

McLaren got slaughtered for having information that wasn't implemented on the car.

Renault have 3 parts (possibly 4) that came from McLaren. (Wonder where they got them from ;) )

Don't ask for a link

;) Damn.... Ron Dennis is in trouble... Again !!!

:dozey: I wonder how McLaren could be sooo foolish as to allow team information to fall into the hands of a rival?

Clearly, McLaren's laspe in security has brought the FIA into... dis-repute !!!

[SGWilko]

;) Damn.... Ron Dennis is in trouble... Again !!!

I wonder how McLaren could be sooo foolish as to allow team information to fall into the hands of a rival?

Clearly, McLaren's laspe in security has brought the FIA into... dis-repute !!!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Flat.tyres]

Tamburello

You will see that my thread started before the story was reported and that I have made some specific claims rather than just mentioning the Disc.

Wait a bit till the submission. i haven't been wrong yet have I? ;)