Silly Season 2008

[bennizw]

Does anyone know when Ford will make an official statement about the drivers lineup for next year? Besides, does anyone think we will get any more news concerning the rumour of Grönholm continuing next year in the near future?

[Halvis]

I think you are right. One of the reasons that Rally will never be as big as F1, is clearly down to a few nations dominating the sport. But what can you do?

The same goes for MotoGP. It's a World Championship on paper, but people call it the Italian and Spanish national championship.

For some reason F1 has managed to be more global.

I agree with you, even if the example from MotoGP wasn't the best, Casey Stoner dominated this years season - and he's from Australia, isn't he?

[MikeD]

I agree with you, even if the example from MotoGP wasn't the best, Casey Stoner dominated this years season - and he's from Australia, isn't he?

Hi Halvis,

Yes Stoner is an Aussie, but I was refering to the amount of Italian and Spanish drivers in MotoGP. The main problem is that the two feeder series 125cc and 250cc are dominated by spanish and italien riders and their sponsors, so it makes it hard for other nationalities to come in with a good rider. But previously it was USA and Australia that dominated MotoGP (Called BikeGP back then) with Gardner, Rainey, Schwantz, Doohan etc. As far as I recall there have only been 4 nationalities in the last 20 years of so that have won the MotoGP title (USA, Australia, Italy and Spain).

One of the strengths of formula racing is the amount of lower formulas spread all over the world. You take the best from several regions of the world and they end up competing in F3, Formula BMW, WS and then GP2. F1 has produced champions over the last 30 years from Finland, Spain, Germany, Canada, England, Brazil, France, USA, Australia, Austria, South Africa and Scotland and that, I think, is a part of why the sport is so big.

I think the weakest link in Rally is the feeder series from other parts of the world. Loeb might be french and dominating the sport, but in fact it's Finland that is dominating in the amount of drivers. Hats of to Finland for their amount of talents, but at the same time it's a problem for the sport that the drivers are basically 40% finns, 20% norwegians, a frenchman, a spaniard, an unsuccessful aussie and a couple of pay-drivers from GB and Argentina.

Personally I don't give a toss about nationality, but most do - so I think that Rally would benefit big time with drivers like Aava, Duval, Arai and Galli having a full year drive. That would bring 4 other nationalities into the sport and making it look more like a world championship. And then perhaps in the future with Pastrana, Araújo and Rautenbach joining WRC and then we would have another 3 nationalities. For the sport to grow, I just think it has to look more like a world championship.

Just my 2 cents...

[COD]

But the fact is 8like in any sports) that the best compete for the most valuable title. There are no quotas for countries. The best are allways the best, from whatever country the come from.

[MikeD]

But the fact is 8like in any sports) that the best compete for the most valuable title. There are no quotas for countries. The best are always the best, from whatever country the come from.

It's not that I disagree, but in motorsport the main goal is a mixture of getting the results and to use motorsport as your platform to sell cars.

We know that Citroen wanted a French driver because their main market is France. Luckily for them, Loeb came along. For the second seat they chose Sordo because - apart from his obvious talent - then he is from Spain, and that is an important market for Citroen.

So what puzzles me is that Ford is a brand sold over most of the world, and yet they chose two have two Finns as their main drivers. Weather it being Gronholm, Hirvonen or Latvala, they have or will deliver the results - but is it good for marketing? Ford sell a lot of cars in all of Europe, so for them I would think it would be important to have drivers from several countries, to make sure their results reach a bigger platform. After all, motorsport is important for the manufactures because it helps them build up a positive image. But if the sport is too narrow and really doesn't live up to it being a World Championship, then they end up building an image for way too few countries.

Many in here don't like F1, but from a marketing point of view WRC could learn a lot. It's the TV-deals and the commercial aspect build up by Bernie Ecclestone that is attracting all the big manufactures into F1. And once F1 hit the big TV figures, the sponsors came along. And then the bigger variety of drivers also came along. So I think WRC needs to look more at the commercial aspect to make the sport bigger and better.

[Zes]

Which happens to co-incide with the time table Wilson gave for Ford's announcements... then again, it'd be interesting if Ford would take him back after dropping him after 2005...


Does anyone know when Ford will make an official statement about the drivers lineup for next year? Besides, does anyone think we will get any more news concerning the rumour of Grönholm continuing next year in the near future?

Well, Monte entries has to be done before Dec 20th, so we are going to get news from all teams in mid december.

[Tomi]

It's not that I disagree, but in motorsport the main goal is a mixture of getting the results and to use motorsport as your platform to sell cars.

We know that Citroen wanted a French driver because their main market is France. Luckily for them, Loeb came along. For the second seat they chose Sordo because - apart from his obvious talent - then he is from Spain, and that is an important market for Citroen.

So what puzzles me is that Ford is a brand sold over most of the world, and yet they chose two have two Finns as their main drivers. Weather it being Gronholm, Hirvonen or Latvala, they have or will deliver the results - but is it good for marketing? Ford sell a lot of cars in all of Europe, so for them I would think it would be important to have drivers from several countries, to make sure their results reach a bigger platform. After all, motorsport is important for the manufactures because it helps them build up a positive image. But if the sport is too narrow and really doesn't live up to it being a World Championship, then they end up building an image for way too few countries.

Many in here don't like F1, but from a marketing point of view WRC could learn a lot. It's the TV-deals and the commercial aspect build up by Bernie Ecclestone that is attracting all the big manufactures into F1. And once F1 hit the big TV figures, the sponsors came along. And then the bigger variety of drivers also came along. So I think WRC needs to look more at the commercial aspect to make the sport bigger and better.

The thing is that its impossible to market cars that finish fifth, you need good drivers to do the marketing, without the manu title Ford would have nothing to build their campaign on.

[A.F.F.]

Many in here don't like F1, but from a marketing point of view WRC could learn a lot. It's the TV-deals and the commercial aspect build up by Bernie Ecclestone that is attracting all the big manufactures into F1. And once F1 hit the big TV figures, the sponsors came along. And then the bigger variety of drivers also came along. So I think WRC needs to look more at the commercial aspect to make the sport bigger and better.


I think that was/is the problem. WRC tried to imitate F1 which is impossible. WRC needs something different.

[MikeD]

The thing is that its impossible to market cars that finish fifth, you need good drivers to do the marketing, without the manu title Ford would have nothing to build their campaign on.

But it's also impossible to marketing a title in a sport that has such poor TV-coverage as WRC has at the moment. So WRC needs to solve the whole "coverage of the sport" issue. And as long as the sport is too narrow in the variety of drivers, it's not going to change. Let's take an example:

If Ford gave a seat to e.g. Gigi Galli they would improve their TV coverage in Italy big time. At the same time Ford would be able to communicate their Manu' title to Italy and by doing that building a better image. And it would inspire more Italian drivers and sponsors to join the sport.

So WRC’s problem is a mixture of it not really being a true world championship (when it comes to drivers) and the poor media coverage of the sport.

And let’s face it – it not just me who is complaining that the sport is too narrow. Guy Frequelin said the same, and that Citroen’s involvement in the sport beyond 2009 depends on weather WRC is able to create a better platform for advertising their involvement in WRC.

And to stay with the F1 comparison: F1 has fewer and fewer overtakings and there are at times many complaints that the sport is too boring. And yet the TV viewers increase year after year. From 1997 until today, the TV coverage of F1 is almost 9 times what it was in 1997. The reason for that is a wider variety of drivers and that tracks are now equally outside Europe as inside Europe.

So while F1 still needs to solve the sporting aspect, then the coverage and the World champion part is certainly something that is handled way better than what is happening in WRC.

[MikeD]

I think that was/is the problem. WRC tried to imitate F1 which is impossible. WRC needs something different.

I would like to hear your views? :)

[Josti]

Many in here don't like F1, but from a marketing point of view WRC could learn a lot. It's the TV-deals and the commercial aspect build up by Bernie Ecclestone that is attracting all the big manufactures into F1. And once F1 hit the big TV figures, the sponsors came along. And then the bigger variety of drivers also came along. So I think WRC needs to look more at the commercial aspect to make the sport bigger and better.

Weird thing is. Rally was on top with manufacterers in the late 90's (I'm talking '97 till '99 early 2000's), before David Richard's broadcasting plans where realized (and in which he obviously failed). Was marketing less important back then or...?

I think AFF is right in saying that WRC shouldn't been concentrating on F1 so much. Both are totally different forms of motorsport. Rallying is not Racing...

[AndyRAC]

I think that was/is the problem. WRC tried to imitate F1 which is impossible. WRC needs something different.

Just look at what they did to imitate F1;

Same points system,
One service area like the Paddock in F1,
Identical events; Thurs -Sun, 3 stages, service, same 3 stages repeated,
Compact easy to cover events, for TV,

I could go on, but weren't all these changes made for better exposure and TV coverage? And what have we got?
Is this progress??
The trouble with F1 is that it's now a Business first, sport second, if there's money to be made it will be, forget if the sport is affected. We don't want WRC like that.

[MikeD]

Weird thing is. Rally was on top with manufacterers in the late 90's (I'm talking '97 till '99 early 2000's), before David Richard's broadcasting plans where realized (and in which he obviously failed). Was marketing less important back then or...?

Maybe Toyota and SEAT saw a better marketing strategy in F1 and WTCC. Could that have something to do with the way better TV coverage that those two FIA series have? I mean F1 has massive TV coverage and WTCC has full live Eurosport coverage of both the sprint- and the feature race. Does WRC have any of this? No, and why is that?


I think AFF is right in saying that WRC shouldn't been concentrating on F1 so much. Both are totally different forms of motorsport. Rallying is not Racing...

I don't think that WRC should copy F1 when it comes to the sporting part - but when it comes to marketing the sport, there can hardly be an argument that F1 has succeeded and WRC has failed.

[MikeD]

Just look at what they did to imitate F1;

Same points system,
One service area like the Paddock in F1,
Identical events; Thurs -Sun, 3 stages, service, same 3 stages repeated,
Compact easy to cover events, for TV,

I could go on, but weren't all these changes made for better exposure and TV coverage? And what have we got?

I think you are missing the point of problem. If these ingredients are the right ones for the marketing platform - and it still doesn't work, then the problem isn't the marketing platform, but some basic problems in the sport. I happen to think that it's related to a combination of WRC not being a true World Championship with the dominating drivers being from 3 countries or so.




The trouble with F1 is that it's now a Business first, sport second, if there's money to be made it will be, forget if the sport is affected. We don't want WRC like that.

Honestly, that's not a problem (or trouble). You have to make WRC a successful business first, before it can become a successful sport. When the manufacturers are happy and the sponsors are happy, then the sport will become successful, because then there is plenty of money to develop and attract drivers.

It's a popular belief that everybody wants motorsport like in the 70'ies, but that's not possible today.

[Josti]

Maybe Toyota and SEAT saw a better marketing strategy in F1 and WTCC. Could that have something to do with the way better TV coverage that those two FIA series have? I mean F1 has massive TV coverage and WTCC has full live Eurosport coverage of both the sprint- and the feature race. Does WRC have any of this? No, and why is that?

I don't think that WRC should copy F1 when it comes to the sporting part - but when it comes to marketing the sport, there can hardly be an argument that F1 has succeeded and WRC has failed.

Of course not, not what I was saying either. WRC should not focus on F1 (marketing wise). Like AndyRAC kind of pointed out, they are basing WRC too much on F1. F1 and WRC shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence if you ask me. In context, both have a very different audience.

You must realize that F1 and racing in general is much easier to broadcast then Rally. Super special stages are a way to make it easier. Good for manufacterers (I guess?), but most rallyfans don't get their blood boiling from that.

[Finni]

You must realize that F1 and racing in general is much easier to broadcast then Rally. Super special stages are a way to make it easier. Good for manufacterers (I guess?), but most rallyfans don't get their blood boiling from that.

I wonder if anyone is too interested about superspecials. In my eyes rally can be very spectacular even in television if spectacular places are spotted.

At least rallying always more spectacular than current Formula 1 which goes like train.

[Brother John]

I think AFF is right in saying that WRC shouldn't been concentrating on F1 so much. Both are totally different forms of motorsport. Rallying is not Racing...

IMO, the problem at the moment is that Rallying looks like Racing in way to too expensive cars.
As the F.I.A. will do somthing about this instead of compare WRC with F1.
1. Make WRC cars cheaper with new rules in a short time, not planning 3 years in advance.
2. P-WRC. A real group N must start with a standard car of what xxx number is built. .More car factories will be intrested if the rules change about the cars.
3. Group N from today! They can be called S2000, look at Mitsubishi and Subaru, for me thats also S2000. They are now already top tuned cars. Not nice to see just 2 brands in a championship. Where is the Focus RS with 4wd, C4 4wd and more......They could be also
Group N. The S2000 from today is not a standard car that we can buy!
4. For WRC level use the same cars whit other rules.
Let the manufactories decide if they want to take part in WRC, S2000 or Group N.

I think many problems are already solved to make rally more attractive again if the F.I.A. take decisions in the short term. Also if people can buy cars those that look and be technical as a group N ore S2000, then comes marketing a step further automatically.

[Roy]

Lets analyse 'our' sport.

What is WRC? = World Rally Championship.
World
Not in Europe or Asia, or... but all over the world comes this Championship.
Rally
Sport who drive by many miles with pimped/tuned or-what-ever-you-call-car. In woods, sand, and some tarmac places.
Championship
The driver and team who collected most points are winner of the World Championship for drivers/ manufacturers

Why This WRC? The best of the world drives against each order in the highest competition of Rally. Local drivers can show their drives for hobby or learning. It is a advertising for their country also (tourism and industry) Even for manufacturers who show their street car in a big test.

Difficulty of WRC is how can you show your brand/advertisement in a format as rally. TV coverage? Comparing WTCC and F1 is rally another format which is difficult to bring rally live on tv. But not impossible (Norway 2007) Live is difficult, but you can bring it in an semi-live or report. I don't understand Eurosport. They have a TV coverage, but after 22.00u if their is no snooker. Snooker more important then WRC?
Their is something wrong with the deals, or money.
More teams come when their is a good TV coverage. With this... Teams are now saying that it is a problem and don't longer commit WRC until 2009.

Is internet a option?
One easy thing for sponsoring: With a lot of theme sites a manufacturer can send a advertisement in a lot of formats to motorsport or car magazine sites.
Look like crash.net who have a advertisement of BP-Ford. That's the way. But not alone on rally or motorsport sites They know rally and Ford for 'years'. Why do I not see a advertisement of the same brand on the Dutch car magazine site? These people don't know rallying and didn't know Ford build a strong car. But that's maybe I live in a small country. I hope it is different in France, Italy, Great Britain, Germany and so on.
Alltough or local Ford dealer make a advertisement last year about Ford in rallying, but not winning the title. it was only the first rallies.

Media coverage is needed. Is not so difficult as its look like, but different then F1, soccer/football or... here is it hockey.

[AndyRAC]

Cars are far too expensive, so any interested manufacturer is immediately put off - look at Citroen with the C4, only 2 on each Rally, if they were cheaper they could run more than 2, and a Privateer team could run them.
The Rallies need to be made more exciting, allow more remote servicing, and maybe even 1 overnight halt away from host town. This means single usage of stages, particularly on gravel, were they get rutted. At the moment only 6-7 stages are used- and repeated.
As for TV coverage, live doesn't really work, does it? An hour long highlights programme would be good, with maybe a 15 min update every evening, like we used to have over here on Rally Report.

[MikeD]

Lets analyse 'our' sport.

What is WRC? = World Rally Championship.
World
Not in Europe or Asia, or... but all over the world comes this Championship.
Rally
Sport who drive by many miles with pimped/tuned or-what-ever-you-call-car. In woods, sand, and some tarmac places.
Championship
The driver and team who collected most points are winner of the World Championship for drivers/ manufacturers

Why This WRC? The best of the world drives against each order in the highest competition of Rally. Local drivers can show their drives for hobby or learning. It is a advertising for their country also (tourism and industry) Even for manufacturers who show their street car in a big test.

Difficulty of WRC is how can you show your brand/advertisement in a format as rally. TV coverage? Comparing WTCC and F1 is rally another format which is difficult to bring rally live on tv. But not impossible (Norway 2007) Live is difficult, but you can bring it in an semi-live or report. I don't understand Eurosport. They have a TV coverage, but after 22.00u if their is no snooker. Snooker more important then WRC?
Their is something wrong with the deals, or money.
More teams come when their is a good TV coverage. With this... Teams are now saying that it is a problem and don't longer commit WRC until 2009.

Is internet a option?
One easy thing for sponsoring: With a lot of theme sites a manufacturer can send a advertisement in a lot of formats to motorsport or car magazine sites.
Look like crash.net who have a advertisement of BP-Ford. That's the way. But not alone on rally or motorsport sites They know rally and Ford for 'years'. Why do I not see a advertisement of the same brand on the Dutch car magazine site? These people don't know rallying and didn't know Ford build a strong car. But that's maybe I live in a small country. I hope it is different in France, Italy, Great Britain, Germany and so on.
Alltough or local Ford dealer make a advertisement last year about Ford in rallying, but not winning the title. it was only the first rallies.

Media coverage is needed. Is not so difficult as its look like, but different then F1, soccer/football or... here is it hockey.

Excellent post.

Regarding Eurosport, I think that channel is both a part of the problem and part of the solution.

1.) The problem with Eurosport is clearly the useless time slots late at night (like you also mention). But the reason that they show WRC after Snooker is simply down to ratings. Snooker simply generates more viewers than WRC. Scary but true!

The other problem with Eurosport - as I see it - is the so called local commentators. The Danish commentator knows $hit about rally and he cannot even pronounce their names correct (which gets really annoying over time) and I doubt that's only a "Danish" problem.

The third problem, is the lack of live coverage - Especially in the weekend. It would be great with a couple of live showings, but unless WRC is able to negotiate a proper deal with Eurosport, I personally think they should find a different way to broadcast it. Perhaps via MotorsTV (who currently covers PWRC and JWRC) or on their own channel over the web.

The fourth problem is that the "half an hour" coverage always concentrates of the top 4-5 drivers, so it looks as if WRC cannot field more cars.

2.) The bonus by using Eurosport is clearly the high penetration of this channel, but WRC needs to make a proper deal that secures more coverage and get better time slots otherwise WRC needs to look elsewhere for its coverage.

[Frozzy]

wasn't there rumours that there was a WRC tv channel being talked about lately?

[bennizw]

Isn't this a silly season thread for next year? There are enough threads about cost savings and why the sport is loosing it's touch around on the forum from before! Serve us the rumours and news concerning next year please ;)

[Tomi]

If Ford gave a seat to e.g. Gigi Galli they would improve their TV coverage in Italy big time. At the same time Ford would be able to communicate their Manu' title to Italy and by doing that building a better image. And it would inspire more Italian drivers and sponsors to join the sport.

Do you seriously belive Ford could winn any titles with Galli behind the wheel?

[Daniel]

Do you seriously belive Ford could winn any titles with Galli behind the wheel?
They could win the crash masters title :)

[Tomi]

They could win the crash masters title :)

lol, much possible, if even that.

[A.F.F.]

I would like to hear your views? :)

Believe me, if I had anything wise to say, I would. :)

I just know that WRC needs something different than F1 . But I think the main thing is wider level of competetion. More manufactureres and more drivers. That's a series to build on to :up:

[sal]

Well I think 2008 will be a very silly season in deed. With Mexico (more stones being thrown at the cars what chances shots next?, Jordan (WTF?), Turkey (spot the spectators) Japan (as Turkey) in the calendar, the stage has already been set. Add to this a whole raft of pay as you go drivers only two truly competitive teams and no Subaru arnt one of them. The FIA doing their best to feck the whole lot up and it's really shaping up to be a cracker...of a joke.

[Daniel]

Cars are far too expensive, so any interested manufacturer is immediately put off - look at Citroen with the C4, only 2 on each Rally, if they were cheaper they could run more than 2, and a Privateer team could run them.
The Rallies need to be made more exciting, allow more remote servicing, and maybe even 1 overnight halt away from host town. This means single usage of stages, particularly on gravel, were they get rutted. At the moment only 6-7 stages are used- and repeated.
As for TV coverage, live doesn't really work, does it? An hour long highlights programme would be good, with maybe a 15 min update every evening, like we used to have over here on Rally Report.
The problem is not the cost of the cars. If it was going to help Citroen I'm sure they'd run 3 cars but the FIA has made it so that gives them no advantage whatsoever.

[MikeD]

Do you seriously belive Ford could winn any titles with Galli behind the wheel?

No, but I think he would do quite well. And if he got a full drive he would be a strong advertising tool for Ford as well. I don't say they have to run him as an M1 driver, but they could run him like they do with Al Khasemi.

PS: Galli was just an example.

[Tomi]

No, but I think he would do quite well. And if he got a full drive he would be a strong advertising tool for Ford as well. I don't say they have to run him as an M1 driver, but they could run him like they do with Al Khasemi.

PS: Galli was just an example.

With galli or who ever not winning driver you can only advertise in countries they come from, with drivers who win rallies and bring titles you can advertise world wide, thats the difference and its quite big.

[N.O.T]

With galli or who ever not winning driver you can only advertise in countries they come from, with drivers who win rallies and bring titles you can advertise world wide, thats the difference and its quite big.

We have a winner !!!!

[Tomi]

We have a winner !!!!

really, in what?

[N.O.T]

In logical thinking....

[Brother John]

No, but I think he would do quite well. And if he got a full drive he would be a strong advertising tool for Ford as well. I don't say they have to run him as an M1 driver, but they could run him like they do with Al Khasemi.

PS: Galli was just an example.

It worked in Norway with Henning! 2006 he was Nr.1 in crashing. :D ;)

[A.F.F.]

With galli or who ever not winning driver you can only advertise in countries they come from, with drivers who win rallies and bring titles you can advertise world wide, thats the difference and its quite big.

See, again I have to disagree with you Tomi. :)

What aparts Galli from many other "not winning drivers" is that Galli would have way bigger media appeal and that would help our beloved sport. Flamboyant drivers like McRae, Galli etc. get fans over the borderlines.

So, put Galli in a proper car and let him do what he does best and we maybe we could get not only new fans but also valuable media coverage from WRC.

That little Italian can put on a show, and I don't think anyone can deny that.

[Tomi]

See, again I have to disagree with you Tomi. :)

What aparts Galli from many other "not winning drivers" is that Galli would have way bigger media appeal and that would help our beloved sport. Flamboyant drivers like McRae, Galli etc. get fans over the borderlines.

So, put Galli in a proper car and let him do what he does best and we maybe we could get not only new fans but also valuable media coverage from WRC.

That little Italian can put on a show, and I don't think anyone can deny that.

You talk about a totally different thing, i was talking about advertising/selling cars, not about how to make the sport more popular.

[Daniel]

You talk about a totally different thing, i was talking about advertising/selling cars, not about how to make the sport more popular.
Perhaps you have different criteria.

I know a guy who bought a Skoda because he wanted to be like Paasonen :p

So these non-winners do still sell cars ;)

[Helstar]

They could win the crash masters title :)
How many times have I to say you that Galli with 307 and Xsara didn't crash AT ALL ? The Mitsu is gone so the crashing time too... =D

Btw Galli did better than Loeb (2 times in snow banks ;p !) in Norway so, based to your 'one way' view (I call it -the Loeb paranoia- you tend to see the french as the only 'real' driver in WRC, while all the others appear random sheeps to your eyes), I could say that Loeb crashed more than Galli in 2007, you figure ! xD

[Tom206wrc]

What do they write about Manfred Stohl ?? :confused:

http://www.autoklub.pl/18063,news.html

It looks like Stohl would drive a Focus WRC06 from the Mikkelsen team(father of Andreas)next year...


If it's the case I'm a bit disappointed as I hoped to see the Austrian in IRC08 with Kronos :(

[bluuford]

You don't have to worry.. yet Tom

As far as I can understand from this Polish web-page nothing is finished yet. It tells that Steinar Mikkelsen bought 3 Focus WRC06 cars and they like to go out as a Manufacturer Team next year. They are still searching second driver for 10 rallies. It costs 1.5 mln Euros for second driver to join.
Stohl is saying that they had first meeting already in Spain. He (Stohl) is still saying that he is looking sponsor for 2-3 year program and saying that if they can increase the number of cars they can use (own?) to 5 or 8 and with good servicing team and equipment then it is also possible to do 12 rallies in 2009. But it is not sure yet how many rallies are there in 2009. Mayebe there are only 12 rallies.
Steinar Mikkelsen is also saying that most probably Marcus wont do any rallies with them. But never say "never". The remaing part of the story is already well know to everybody about Marcus training Andreas and etc.

[MikeD]

I think there is quite a good chance for Ramsport to run as an M2 team next year. They have the budget for Mikkelsen for 10-12 rallies. They also have an agreement to run Gareth Jones and he is quite strong on sponsors*, so if they can add Manfred Stohl, there should be a foundation for running an M2 team (IMHO).

Gareth Jones ran 4 rallies this year. 1 with Dom Buckley Motorsport and 3 with Ramsport. He ran in 4 different liveries, so he must be well connected.

[Roy]

I asked in other threads before. I try again:

Can someone told me shortly more info about Gareth Jones?
What is his age,
goal for WRC,
what national result he got. I found it already
what does he before or besides rallying, etc.?

Thnx!

Has nobody information about this guy?

[Tom206wrc]

I think there is quite a good chance for Ramsport to run as an M2 team next year. They have the budget for Mikkelsen for 10-12 rallies. They also have an agreement to run Gareth Jones and he is quite strong on sponsors*, so if they can add Manfred Stohl, there should be a foundation for running an M2 team (IMHO).

Gareth Jones ran 4 rallies this year. 1 with Dom Buckley Motorsport and 3 with Ramsport. He ran in 4 different liveries, so he must be well connected.



But Gareth Jones drove the MG S2000(in RAC) not a Focus :confused:

[Tomi]

sofar there is still 3 guys trying to get the ramsport second seat, Stohl, Jones, and Tuohino.

[MikeD]

But Gareth Jones drove the MG S2000(in RAC) not a Focus :confused:

No, the "Jones" you are thing about is Stuart Jones.

PS: Jones is a common name, you know ;)

[MikeD]

I asked in other threads before. I try again:

Can someone told me shortly more info about Gareth Jones?
What is his age,
goal for WRC,
what national result he got. I found it already
what does he before or besides rallying, etc.?

Thnx!

Has nobody information about this guy?

I think Noel157 or Simmi might be able to help you. I think they are expercts on Focus WRC privateer drivers.

[Simmi]

I think Noel157 or Simmi might be able to help you. I think they are expercts on Focus WRC privateer drivers.

I'm afraid I can't help you that much FC when it comes to Gareth. I'm not sure what has suddenly driven him to join the WRC circus. As you have probably found out it seems like he showed only flashes of speed in the Irish tarmac series in his bright yellow Impreza last year. This year he became part of the Reid Transport-backed team in a Focus but the results just didnt come for whatever reason and he was dropped.

I have him down as someone who at national level can be fast, but he seems to crash a lot too.

He has been backed by JCB Finance quite a bit but like I say I am not really an expert on this guy. In my opinion he doesn't have the credentials to make it in the WRC but since when has that been an issue in the past few years.

[Roy]

I'm afraid I can't help you that much FC when it comes to Gareth. I'm not sure what has suddenly driven him to join the WRC circus. As you have probably found out it seems like he showed only flashes of speed in the Irish tarmac series in his bright yellow Impreza last year. This year he became part of the Reid Transport-backed team in a Focus but the results just didnt come for whatever reason and he was dropped.

I have him down as someone who at national level can be fast, but he seems to crash a lot too.

He has been backed by JCB Finance quite a bit but like I say I am not really an expert on this guy. In my opinion he doesn't have the credentials to make it in the WRC but since when has that been an issue in the past few years.

Thnx.
I hope Noel has some info.

[Tom206wrc]

No, the "Jones" you are thing about is Stuart Jones.

PS: Jones is a common name, you know ;)




Alright thanks :laugh:

[noel157]

I think Noel157 or Simmi might be able to help you. I think they are expercts on Focus WRC privateer drivers.

Not much info to add on Gareth Jones. Met him him last year on a stage after he retired from a rally. Very friendly guy. Think he's about 27 now and he and his family are involved in civil engineering or sell civil engineering machines in Wales, hence the JCB sponsorship. As mentioned he was pretty good in the Imprezza last season on Irish tarmac and I thought he had a good future if things went well for him. He got involved wth the Reid Transport (now defunct) sponsored team with the old model Focus (EG 53 AVD). I don't think he ever really settled into the team or the car and after a few Irish tarmac events left the team and used the car (or others) prepared by Ramsport and Dom Buckley on various WRC and national events.

He certainly has talent and may improve in 08 with the right budget and the right team if he can get a programme together.

[Roy]

:up: thnx for info!

[Xsara Fan]

How many times have I to say you that Galli with 307 and Xsara didn't crash AT ALL ? The Mitsu is gone so the crashing time too... =D

Btw Galli did better than Loeb (2 times in snow banks ;p !) in Norway so, based to your 'one way' view (I call it -the Loeb paranoia- you tend to see the french as the only 'real' driver in WRC, while all the others appear random sheeps to your eyes), I could say that Loeb crashed more than Galli in 2007, you figure ! xD

This year 'crash-specialists' Duval & Galli were 'clever boys'. The main 'crashers' were... Loeb & Gronholm (Norway, Sardinia, Japan, Ireland etc.)

[Simmi]

Ok so according to Autosport Urmo Aava has penned a deal for 10 rounds in a factory spec C4 for next year. This is in addition to a 15 round deal for Conrad Rautenbach. Apparently both deals were penned in Wales last weekend. Should make up for the loss of Kronos to a degree.

Just thinking with all these Fords and now Citroen's is rallying in danger of becoming like the DTM?

[Tomi]

thats good news, aava is a good driver.

[Jaanus]

Ok so according to Autosport Urmo Aava has penned a deal for 10 rounds in a factory spec C4 for next year. This is in addition to a 15 round deal for Conrad Rautenbach. Apparently both deals were penned in Wales last weekend. Should make up for the loss of Kronos to a degree.

Just thinking with all these Fords and now Citroen's is rallying in danger of becoming like the DTM?

This is news to me, because it has not yet been in Estonian media, but I a sure it will be very soon. If it is true, then this is great news :D

[noel157]

I was told today by a neghbour that Suzuki will have P-G and Baldacci as pay drivers next season? No Wilks or Aava (who now appears to be getting a C4). It may have been n Motoring News? True, no?
Simmi, did you see MN?

[MikeD]

Ok so according to Autosport Urmo Aava has penned a deal for 10 rounds in a factory spec C4 for next year. This is in addition to a 15 round deal for Conrad Rautenbach. Apparently both deals were penned in Wales last weekend. Should make up for the loss of Kronos to a degree.

Just thinking with all these Fords and now Citroen's is rallying in danger of becoming like the DTM?

Great news. I really like Aava. Will they rally together in an M2 team? - or both under the "Citroen Sport" banner?

[sal]

Looks like Rautenbach and Aava are confirmed then:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/06122007/58/season-2008-rautenbach-aava-citroens.html

[Simmi]

I was told today by a neghbour that Suzuki will have P-G and Baldacci as pay drivers next season? No Wilks or Aava (who now appears to be getting a C4). It may have been n Motoring News? True, no?
Simmi, did you see MN?

I haven't managed to see MN yet this week Noel but that does seem fairly logical for 2nd seat drivers. I wish I had a neighbour who was into rallying. I can count the people I know who are into it on one hand unfortunately.

[Simmi]

Looks like Rautenbach and Aava are confirmed then:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/06122007/58/season-2008-rautenbach-aava-citroens.html

I dont know if I agree with the Kronos Sport speculation at the end of the article. The deals look like they have been put in place with Citroen Sport themselves. Whether they get Kronos to run the team remains to be seen. If these guys can get up to speed that's more bad news in the top 8 for Subaru!

[Dilek]

News is here :)

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/06122007/58/season-2008-rautenbach-aava-citroens.htmlhttp://http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/06122007/58/season-2008-rautenbach-aava-citroens.html

[Tom206wrc]

Fantastic news especially about Aava !!! :bounce:

[alleskids]

Rautenbach's Xsara WRC was run by PH Sport, just like his Citroen C2, so I think PH Sport has the best change. Great that Citroen is so quick with giving the C4 WRC to privateers.

Estonian driver Aava, who this year won the Junior Rally Championship with Suzuki ????? Don't let PG Andersson hear this :) .

[Sami]

Not much info to add on Gareth Jones. Met him him last year on a stage after he retired from a rally. Very friendly guy. Think he's about 27 now and he and his family are involved in civil engineering or sell civil engineering machines in Wales, hence the JCB sponsorship. As mentioned he was pretty good in the Imprezza last season on Irish tarmac and I thought he had a good future if things went well for him. He got involved wth the Reid Transport (now defunct) sponsored team with the old model Focus (EG 53 AVD). I don't think he ever really settled into the team or the car and after a few Irish tarmac events left the team and used the car (or others) prepared by Ramsport and Dom Buckley on various WRC and national events.

He certainly has talent and may improve in 08 with the right budget and the right team if he can get a programme together.

I know Gareth from his Finland year 2003, he drove here in a Corolla WRC and has had Pentti Airikkala as his driving coach. They had even plans to drive Finnish blind rallies, I had discussions with national governing body about that, but those plans were cancelled.

Gareth tend to crash a lot, and did it in Finland too, I think they cancelled the rally program then because of Gareth's studies and obligations towards family business and because of some heavy accidents. I remember whatching a Finnish championship rally where Gareth crashed to a rock cliff. I knew him via Airikkala and then we had a chance to discuss several hours with him and his father Glyn.

His father didn't like the Finnish rallying culture, of letting drivers crash that rock cliff over and over again (even fire brigade cut someone out of the car and then party started again with new crashes...). He couldn't accept that there was not warning to the drivers there, even though there had been several rolls previous years in that place. Maybe seeing that corner and several rolls there made him think again about Finnish rallying, or maybe it was just the family business, I don't know.

Gareth does rally because he loves the sport truly, he likes to drive wide lines, pick the corners from far out and let the tail slide wide. Not the fastest driver there is, but one of the most crowd pleasing, for sure!

[Finni]

Reutenbach who? Aava is ok - altough I have no too big expectations for him.

[SubaruNorway]

I was told today by a neghbour that Suzuki will have P-G and Baldacci as pay drivers next season? No Wilks or Aava (who now appears to be getting a C4). It may have been n Motoring News? True, no?
Simmi, did you see MN?

Loris ore Mirco baldacci?

[Tomi]

So almost all the seats have found drivers, hopefully Wilks gets the Stobart one.

[A.F.F.]

So almost all the seats have found drivers.

Oh I wish would be other way around.

[Tom206wrc]

Reutenbach who? Aava is ok - altough I have no too big expectations for him.



I guess you would have prefered two Finns in the new C4s... :p :

[noel157]

Loris ore Mirco baldacci?

Not sure Sub. I'm more familiar with Loris from his Fiat Stilo days although I think Mirco did JWRC in a Suzuki some time ago. I'll check exactly what the article said tomorrow, unless anybody else saw it?

[noel157]

Good to see the site up again.

Ok, the Motorsport News story said that (Mirco, I think) Baldacci and P-G had tested the SX4 and they also commented that it was likely that these 2 would get a pay-drive each. Possible or not I do not know.

Anymore news on Aava and Rautenbach in the C4s?

[Sulland]

If I had been the Suzuki boss I would have called Galli as well, would be a tremendous asset to have in the team, and headlines would have been a sure thing !

[Jaanus]

Anymore news on Aava and Rautenbach in the C4s?

Urmo Aava comment to the article was that he has not signed any contracts and his future is still open. The story in Eurosport was a lie.

http://sport.postimees.ee/071207/esileht/sport/autoralli/valismaa/300105.php

[Wasted Talent]

I know Gareth from his Finland year 2003, he drove here in a Corolla WRC and has had Pentti Airikkala as his driving coach. They had even plans to drive Finnish blind rallies, I had discussions with national governing body about that, but those plans were cancelled.

Gareth tend to crash a lot, and did it in Finland too, I think they cancelled the rally program then because of Gareth's studies and obligations towards family business and because of some heavy accidents. I remember whatching a Finnish championship rally where Gareth crashed to a rock cliff. I knew him via Airikkala and then we had a chance to discuss several hours with him and his father Glyn.

His father didn't like the Finnish rallying culture, of letting drivers crash that rock cliff over and over again (even fire brigade cut someone out of the car and then party started again with new crashes...). He couldn't accept that there was not warning to the drivers there, even though there had been several rolls previous years in that place. Maybe seeing that corner and several rolls there made him think again about Finnish rallying, or maybe it was just the family business, I don't know.

Gareth does rally because he loves the sport truly, he likes to drive wide lines, pick the corners from far out and let the tail slide wide. Not the fastest driver there is, but one of the most crowd pleasing, for sure!

Gareth is the son of Glyn Jones who used to rally in the 1980/90's mainly in a Manta 400

WT

[Glee]

When does the Monte Carlo entrees close, and when does the manufacturer entries close?

[Viking]

When does the Monte Carlo entrees close, and when does the manufacturer entries close?

FIA WRC 2008
Manufacturer:
Applications to compete in the Championship must be submitted to the FIA at any time before 15 December.
A Manufacturer must inform the FIA of the name of the first driver entered for the season at the time of registration for the Championship. Except in a case of force majeure recognised as such by the World Rally Championship Commission, no change of the first driver initially designated is authorised.
The driver of the second car may be changed for each of the rallies in the Championship. The name of the second driver must be notified to the FIA no later than 5 weeks prior to the start of the Rally concerned.

Manufacturer Team:
Applications to compete in the Championship may be submitted to the FIA at any time before 1700hrs on the Monday following the finish of the 4th event of the World Rally Championship.
A Manufacturer Team must inform the FIA of the names of the driver/s nominated for the purpose of scoring points no later than 5 weeks prior to the start of the Rally concerned.


MONTE CARLO:
Thursday 20th December 2007: Closing date for entries.
Friday 21st December 2007: Road book and Rally Guide 2 issuing and list of entries accepted published (subject toFIA approval).

[koko0703]

Hummm....so Aava in C4 is not a done deal??? I would love to see him as one of the regular WRC driver, and it will be good to see Citroen 2nd team next year.

[Viking]

P-G says in this article that he has said no to a deal from Suzuki where he and Aava should share second car (pay and drive).
But he also says that it still can be an opening in the team and he will know this in a few days.
If no Suzuki deal he will have a look into possibilities in S2000 or gr.N.
He might also drive a WRC car in Swedish Rally (Norwegian Ford Focus).

http://www.nwt.se/ArticlePages/200712/11/20071211185102_670/20071211185102_670.dbp.asp

[Corny]

I really hope Citroen will change that boring livery, this is like an invitation for Marlboro..

[Finni]

P-G says in this article that he has said no to a deal from Suzuki where he and Aava should share second car (pay and drive).
But he also says that it still can be an opening in the team and he will know this in a few days.
If no Suzuki deal he will have a look into possibilities in S2000 or gr.N.
He might also drive a WRC car in Swedish Rally (Norwegian Ford Focus).

http://www.nwt.se/ArticlePages/200712/11/20071211185102_670/20071211185102_670.dbp.asp

I am curious to see if Suzuki can convince any driver to pay for driving their car.. :)

[Frozzy]

I really hope Citroen will change that boring livery, this is like an invitation for Marlboro..
i agree i prefered the Kronos Gualoises(?) blue xsaras from the first half of last season compared to their newer boring red c4's

[Glee]

Is there an official statement from Citroen, Subaru and Ford?

The Citroen and Subaru driver are known, but is it official?
And JML is almost official Fords second pick, but has they said anything official?

[Tomi]

If I had been the Suzuki boss I would have called Galli as well, would be a tremendous asset to have in the team, and headlines would have been a sure thing !

Yes true, but whatkind of headlines and where, Galli on skis, Galli on a horse, maybe they are trying to build a rallyteam and not a circus. ;)

[Daniel]

Yes true, but whatkind of headlines and where, Galli on skis, Galli on a horse, maybe they are trying to build a rallyteam and not a circus. ;)

I think even Pino might laugh at that one ;) I know I sure did :rotflmao:

[Buzz Lightyear]

i was rumoured that JML signed last week. it just seems strange that it has not been announced. there may well be some surprises.

[Tomi]

Or maby someone of the less lazy Swedes can go and have a look whos driving in the tests, the other one of those will be the second driver.

[ITC55]

i was rumoured that JML signed last week. it just seems strange that it has not been announced. there may well be some surprises.

An announcement at the race of champions...maybe? they are using the focus this year, so maybe they can use it as a platform for their announcement

[Le NaRcX]

What about Janne Tuohino?

I've found this:

http://www.jannetuohino.com/season2008.php

[Jaanus]

Tuohino was tipped to drive the second Ramsport Focus in the same team with Mikkelsen, wasn't he?

[Tom206wrc]

I hoped/wished Tuohino would go to S2000/IRC(there was a thread about this in that forum) :mark:

[Daniel]

Tom. Are you not hoping that every driver goes to the IRC? :mark:

[Tomi]

Tom. Are you not hoping that every driver goes to the IRC? :mark:

Looks that Tuohino is not that desperate yet. :)

[emk]

Suzuki
Duval - Promising young Finn Tero Wilén from Suzuki's junior team in Finland, HLWRT

It's no worth guessing anymore after this!

On latest number of Vauhdin Maailma-magazine there was an article about Finnish junior rally championship event and on that Garde talked about Wilen as his teammate :eek:

So watch out Swedes ! :D