6R4 Super Challenge @ Sunseeker rally 08

[m.lowe]

Motorsport News has finally published the plans for the 6R4 Super Challenge to take place at Rallye Sunseeker 08. Jo Holland contacted Metro 6R4 Online News for some help in this matter on certain cars and I'm glad to say that Metro 6R4 Online News will be part of those celebrations on the event next year as part of a team of judges for the best turned out car.
Back in 1987 Malcolm Wilson won the forerunner event The Citroen Stages
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8589/malcni2.jpg
and a year later ARG organsed a championship for Clubman spec Metros. Owners can become involved in Three ways. Either by competing, or a demo run at Somerley park on the Friday night or by a static display, anyone interested contact Jo Holland at [email:sc5gvd41]jo.holland@haymarket.com[/email:sc5gvd41]

[FAL]

Ironic really. If the MSC/A had not bowed to commercial pressure and let 6R4s run on nationally in 1987 against all logic after the FIA banned such vehicles from International rallies (and, even more ironically, starting them in 1987 on this very rally, that was and is organised by an individual with links to Austin Rover at the time) we might never have seen the recent row over "specials" in rallying and the hot air and backtracking over changes to GR. K.37.
We might then have had a so-called governing body that gets on with saving the sport rather than "spinning" its own image.

[leecarter]

FAL what a complete load of nonsense!!!!!!

I take it you dont like the 6r4 and you have and have an axe to grind with K37, on that matter do you REALLY KNOW what the proposals are and what they mean.

[FAL]

Were you there at the time? Are you aware of the detail of the latest, much toned-down K.37? Your childish offensive comment suggests not.
Try separating fact (and true long term rally history of production-based cars) from the myths that have grown up and the inappropriate vehicles that nearly killed all rallying for good over 20 years ago.

[leecarter]

FAL

Were you there at the time?
YES

Are you aware of the detail of the latest, much toned-down K.37?
Most certainly every detail
Your childish offensive comment suggests not.
Not at all!!!!!
Try separating fact (and true long term rally history of production-based cars) from the myths that have grown up and the inappropriate vehicles that nearly killed all rallying for good over 20 years ago.

Cast your mind back when they banned group B what have they got now!!!!!!!


Do YOU know the full detail of the proposal of K37 I suggest you dont, and what who it affects !!!!!!!

Have you read motorsports now or indeed the msa web site to see the detail ..........are you infact a licence holder or just a member of the bobble hat brigade

[FAL]

We've seen more than enough unnecessary stirring by those ill-informed about K37. Time you accepted that, of those of us actually rallying at International level at the time, most loathed both the introduction of 4wd and the vehicles way divorced from production that are today the only one's remembered as "GpB" by those not directly involved. Together, these two things killed rallying as we all knew it. Learn to accept that a great many competitors of the time hold that view, will continue to hold it and are entitled to hold it.
Quite separately, the National A event now known as the Sunseeker (originally only upgraded to that status over objections from within its own organising club) has been a major factor in destroying club level loose surface rallying in the south of England - to the extent that for some time now there have been insufficient cars there to run a true southern event without outside championships. Other factors have assisted things down that sad slope but the reduction to one Ringwood forest allocation a year and it going to a National Championship rally have been part of it.
The running of massed 6R4s on the 87 National championship when the FIA had just banned them was something not all wish to be reminded of. Why do you think manufacturers like Ford were not runing RS200s alongside them? The whole business leaves a nasty smell to this day.
If you are so keen on the more extreme non-homologated cars in rallies, do remember that the National Championship of which this rally was the first round next tried to ban all non GpA and N cars completely, first by imposing a 2000cc limit on non-homologated cars, then the next year a 1600cc limit. Some of us are proud to have been involved in overturning that.

[leecarter]

FAL
I can assure you there is no unnessary stirriing as you put it regarding the new K37 proposals, and i will ask the question again have you read them and understand what they mean.

If you require an explination pm me and i will explain

You have previously posted on another thread your feeling about 4wd rally cars having no place on rally stages .................you have stated this again for reasons known only to yourself or is it to bring back the "good old days " were men were men etc etc .............sorry times change we have historic rallying for that and some beutiful examples for sure driving as they should be, but dont stop progress but hey you have your opinion.

As for the sunseeker allowing the 6r4s and the politics surrounding forest allocation in the south i have no idea what beef you have with the organising club but its been a long long time ago and you really need to put it to bed.

[Bolton Midnight]

The forests down South are crap anyroad, 1½ mile long stages I ask you......pure pish

[m.lowe]

FAL
If it wasn't for Lee Carter and others the Metro 6R4 might of been stopped
The thing that killed Group B wasnt the speed of the cars it was the idiot spectators and the poor organisation of events to keep them back off the road
Portugal 86 spring to mind?

Whether you compete in an Escort, Nova upto Metros and WRC cars and have a crash its a thing in rallying that happens

Why single out the 6R4?
The real reason about K37 is due to insurance and in this liablalous world the MSA wont risk itself by allowing cars that are bodged together

The 6R4 was a low production run car and not a spaceframe as some people think and is in fact one if not the strongest cars around as I have provided pictures of cars that have rolled and people survived
David Llewellin 86 Welsh,, Andrew Nesbitt when he wrecked a JP Rallying car, and Stephen Price when he alked away from his massive accident on a Manx National years ago, plus Lyndon Barton's monumentous roll on Epynt which that car is now rebuilt.

Regarding Ford and the RS200 they where not interested in supporting the car in Rallies as they just wanted shot of them and most ended up on the roads and the others in Rallycross and a couple did go to rallying, Jeff Chrchill, Terry Maynard still runs his with a 34mm restrictor

[cut the b.s.]

Corsica 86 Mark? Or Corsica 85? To name but 2, I dont follow or understand FALs point but while I agree that the 6R4 was and is a safe car as were most GpB cars some werent, proximity of turbos and fuel tanks being 1 thing that comes to mind in some of them

[cut the b.s.]

Corsica 86 Mark? Or Corsica 85? To name but 2, I dont follow or understand FALs point but while I agree that the 6R4 was and is a safe car as were most GpB cars some werent, proximity of turbos and fuel tanks being 1 thing that comes to mind in some of them

[m.lowe]

The tanks in the 6R4 where housed in their own compartments each side of the car

Regarding Corsica 85 Bettega was killed in a Lancia and then 86 Henri was killed when his car burst into flames and looking at the construction of the Delta S4 after it burnt out I would rather be in a 6R4 due to its build and construction anyday

All the Group B 4wd cars apart from the Audi the rest where flimsy things,
Ar was very lucky to be alive after his Pug went off, the story of the lancias above and the RS200 which had its tub like compartment then floors where being replaced as they wore away on the ruff stuff

[FAL]

You just don't get it do you?
Competitors of the time (top professionals as well as those who made all events viable - except some amateurs with too much money) do not all view these vehicles through the kind of rose-tinted spectatcles that seem to have proliferated far too widely of late, to the extent of trying to re-write history. History is not going to be allowed to be re-written here by post-dated fawning over an abberation.
Learn to live with it.

[leecarter]

FAL

Which rose tinted windscreen are you peering out of,

You still have not answered my questions !!!!!!

Further more, you have now suggested the sport is only for wealthy gentlemen who rally 25yrs old cars instead of wrc cars which equally they could afford to run. But alas they are 4wd not 2wd and that is what pisses you off.

Fal you are obviously an educated man and have been around a long time, you have your own opinions as i have said before, but because of this type of attitude the sport called rallying will be curtailed some what, by the type of narrow minded ness that shows its self on these type of forums from time to time.

[midgary]

i have been reading this thread with interest and i find it hard to believe that anyone who is really interested in rallying pays any notice to this FAL guy ,is he just trying to wind people up , it is people like him now incharge of rallying that has caused its decline ,we want to see spectacular rally cars not road cars ,i am a ex competitor and i still think the group b cars are the best , who wants to see a mitsi or subaru group n car prossesion, bloody boring ,these rule changes can only lead to many competitors packing rallying in , this country has always been leaders in car building specials ect way before group b ever came about , i for certain want to see these type of cars and not what is running now , and it should make no difference if you are a amature with to much money or not , as to the crashes as said before crowd control was non existant that was the main problem ,rallying is a dangerous sport as we all know but even with all the latest saftey rules we have still lost good friends be it drivers or co drivers in the last few years ,it is not just the group b days this happened , try working together not against at the end of the day this for most is a hobby it should be enjoyed regards gary

[Bolton Midnight]

The 6R4 was a low production run car and not a spaceframe as some people think and is in fact one if not the strongest cars around

DAMS 4100 is, but they seem okay in crash, so I've heard LOL