Your cars safety rating?

[Mark]

http://www.euroncap.com/ (probably only cars available in Europe?)

My Fiesta scored 4 stars for occupants and 2 stars for pedestrians.

The biggest criticism was in the seat belts fed higher loads than ideal to the drivers chest, probably because they couldn't give enough due to the smaller space in the car.

[CarlMetro]

My Zafira has 5 stars for adults, 4 stars for children and 2 stars for pedestrians, which I thought was quite good.

I was surprised to see only 1 car, the Citreon C6, has ever achieved the 4 start pedestrian rating. I guess that's the car to get knocked over by, if you have a choice then :s

[Iain]

My Ibiza got 4 stars for adults and 2 for pedestrians. Doesn't have a child's score as far as I can see.

[Daniel]

My Zafira has 5 stars for adults, 4 stars for children and 2 stars for pedestrians, which I thought was quite good.

I was surprised to see only 1 car, the Citreon C6, has ever achieved the 4 start pedestrian rating. I guess that's the car to get knocked over by, if you have a choice then :s
Lucky because if you see a C6 on the road here you're likely to become confused and stop walking :p Only seen one on the road here and suspect I'll never see another one :(

I think my car is a 2 star car and it actually runs on a heady brew children and pedestrians :mark:

Oh well! :)

[Donney]

4 for adults, none for children and that is strange being a small family car and two stars for pedestrians.

[MadCat]

Oh dear mines not so good. Put it this way, if i have any form of crash im most likely to die :s ..

.. ce la vie

[Drew]

My car for its age isn't even on there :p :

[DaveTaylor]

Safety rating ha what guff.
too many people seem to think all the safety devices on their car render it uncrashable.
Take all this stuff off cars show them what will happen and i'm sure they will then start using indicators, looking at roundabouts, and using their mirrors.
Suppose what i'm saying is the biggest factor in motoring safety ain't the development in safety devices, it's the doughnut that gets behind the wheel thinking that ABS ESP (you need that one so you know what some drivers are gonna do) and airbags means they can't crash

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Of course.

When people drive a car with more Euro NCAP stars they drive dangerously because they aren't bothered about crashing. :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

Of course.

When people drive a car with more Euro NCAP stars they drive dangerously because they aren't bothered about crashing. :rolleyes:
Jon. People aren't as bothered anymore because they think if something happens their ABS and traction control and so on will stop it happening and if they do crash then the airbags and so on will save them.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Got any proof?

[Daniel]

You prove that people drive safer.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

No, you prove that they don't :p

[Brown, Jon Brow]

See

You can't!

[Daniel]

*sigh*

[J4MIE]

Frontal Impact
The steering wheel moved more than allowed in the crash and the driver’s head reached a point where it was starting to move off the airbag which in some circumstance can become dangerous. The airbag also bottomed-out so allowing the driver’s head to contact the steering wheel. The body shell was defeated by the severity of the test and the occupant’s survival space was compromised. Despite load limiters being fitted to the front seat belts the chest loads were high. The front seat belts are also fitted with pretensioners which are designed to limit forward movement in the event of a crash. The door opened during the test and which was caused by the linkage being operated when the door’s inner skin separated from the outer. There were aggressively hard structures under the facia that would cause injuries to the knees and upper legs. Only a simple two point static belt was fitted in the centre rear seat, which can cause severe spinal and abdominal injuries.

:s

[Daniel]

Don't crash them Jamie :D

[J4MIE]

Thankfully the Saxo sprinkled itself on the motorway before I did crash, it even survived a deer throwing itself at it :|

[Hazell B]

Jon. People aren't as bothered anymore because they think if something happens their ABS and traction control and so on will stop it happening and if they do crash then the airbags and so on will save them.

But before the safety stuff was introduced, they thought being in a large metal box would save them, so it's always been the same. We're just more educated about what should help now, that's all. It's human nature to think everything will be fine and it won't happen to us.

Anyhow, mine's too old (it's 15) for ncap.
If it were to be tested as is, it'd score very, very badly on all counts I expect :s

[Hondo]

I'm pretty sure my Nissan Titan pickup will smoosh any car and most SUVs that wander in front of it.

[Hondo]

I got 4 for adults, 3 for children, and 2 for pedestrians using the Pathfinder as the search vehicle. It's on the same platform as the Titan.

[Azumanga Davo]

The Lanos had a ** star rating, and my current 260Z being so old will be classed as 'Well, it passed at the time...'... ;)

[MattL]

This shows how much safety has improved in recent years:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3ygYUYia9I

[speedy king]

That site is one of many reasons why id dint get a Saxo, along with shoddy build quality and reputation.

The 306 dosent score great, but not bad for a car which first came out in 1993!! :) Added to that i had twin airbags, ABS etc etc i took that as my choice for a first car... 3 stars for driver, not so good for pedestrian..

[speedy king]

The 1997 3 series is rather worrying for a large car :s

[Daniel]

That site is one of many reasons why id dint get a Saxo, along with shoddy build quality and reputation.

The 306 dosent score great, but not bad for a car which first came out in 1993!! :) Added to that i had twin airbags, ABS etc etc i took that as my choice for a first car... 3 stars for driver, not so good for pedestrian..
Pedestrians should choose which cars they walk out in front of Speedy ;) I think my 406 scores about the same as a 306 perhaps even worse. But as I said before how many serious crashes are there? I certainly don't consider car safety to be a huge factor when I buy a car as the likelihood of a crash is so low. Of course given the choice between two cars which were near on identical with one being a 5 star car and another being a 1 star car I'd choose the 5 star car. I prefer to have a car that's good to drive, has it's cabin logically laid out, has good brakes and so on. There is so much you can do to actually not have an accident like making a car handle well, not having bits of body obstructing your frontal view or blindspot, giving a car decent brakes and so on. One thing I don't like about my 406 is the chunky A pillar which blocks my view while going around right hand corners in lanes whereas in Caroline's Subaru there you can actually see where you're going :rolleyes:

Other than "fender benders" I've only been in one headon incident which was someone turning into the wrong lane (ours!!!) at a junction and hitting the right front side of our car and it was at low speed so it would have been survivable in just about anything that's more rigid than a cardboard box. Don't get me wrong safety is a good thing but I'd rather own a good car that I could die in than a crappy car that I'm safer in :mark: How many people have been involved in a car crash where they were actually in danger? Kind of puts it into perspective ;)

I think NCAP tests are great but why not try to reduce the amount of accidents that happen in the first place?

[Daniel]

The 1997 3 series is rather worrying for a large car :s
It was first produced in 1991 so it can't be directly compared to anything else on the market in the late 90's ;)

[speedy king]

Good point... :)

[nicemms]

This site is the reason why I'm, not going to buy a Fiat Sciento. It would literally crumple in a crash!

[Flat.tyres]

You prove that people drive safer.

Actually, my car is 5 star and I probably drive it safer than any other because I don't want to ding it as it'd cost a fortune to put right.

[Flat.tyres]

This shows how much safety has improved in recent years:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3ygYUYia9I

That is amazing and to think people buy those Volvo's for their safety :s hock:

[Daniel]

Actually, my car is 5 star and I probably drive it safer than any other because I don't want to ding it as it'd cost a fortune to put right.
That's what insurance is for? :mark:

[Daniel]

But before the safety stuff was introduced, they thought being in a large metal box would save them, so it's always been the same. We're just more educated about what should help now, that's all. It's human nature to think everything will be fine and it won't happen to us.

Anyhow, mine's too old (it's 15) for ncap.
If it were to be tested as is, it'd score very, very badly on all counts I expect :s
Agreed. I'm against anyone driving silly because they think their car will protect them ;)

[Mark]

That's what insurance is for? :mark:

Doesn't matter how good your insurance is, it's still gonna cost you. If only in terms of time.

[Daniel]

Doesn't matter how good your insurance is, it's still gonna cost you. If only in terms of time.
Yes but the cost shouldn't be what stops you from driving like a twonk. The possibility of dying or killing someone else should be deterrent enough perhaps? :mark:

[Flat.tyres]

Yes but the cost shouldn't be what stops you from driving like a twonk. The possibility of dying or killing someone else should be deterrent enough perhaps? :mark:

Like it or not, people tend to take care of things that are dear to them.

You claimed that the safer the car is, the less care and attention people take of their driving. My point was that safer cars tend to be newer and therefore more expensive which leads to people taking more care of them.

Doesn't that make sense?

Obviously, nobody wants to have an accident and the possibility of such is a concern for 99.9% of drivers but most people I see "driving like a twonk" tend to be in older cars where they haven't got as much investment in them.

[Daniel]

Like it or not, people tend to take care of things that are dear to them.

You claimed that the safer the car is, the less care and attention people take of their driving. My point was that safer cars tend to be newer and therefore more expensive which leads to people taking more care of them.

Doesn't that make sense?

Obviously, nobody wants to have an accident and the possibility of such is a concern for 99.9% of drivers but most people I see "driving like a twonk" tend to be in older cars where they haven't got as much investment in them.
Yes it makes sense and I wouldn't want my shiny new car being damaged either. But you can understand what I'm saying too ;) I would say it's actually the opposite. It's usually the people in newer cars that are trying to undercut or who are driving stupidly in the lanes. I've never had a near miss in the lanes near home with an old car. It's always cars which are only about 3 or 4 years old at most.

[Flat.tyres]

Yes it makes sense and I wouldn't want my shiny new car being damaged either. But you can understand what I'm saying too ;) I would say it's actually the opposite. It's usually the people in newer cars that are trying to undercut or who are driving stupidly in the lanes. I've never had a near miss in the lanes near home with an old car. It's always cars which are only about 3 or 4 years old at most.

I think the cut off is about 6 years where the 50% split happens.

Older than 6 years old is considered older and less is younger.

Age also comes into it as younger drivers tend to have older cars.

Occassionally I have some problems with a BMW driver being a prat but usually it's older cars and chavs driving like idiots which cause the issues here.

[Daniel]

Well we obviously live in different areas (I don't mean that to be funny either) :) Got tailgated by a woman in a 54 plate VW people carrier today :mark: Perhaps we should do a forum survey? :)

[fandango]

A couple of years ago my wife lost control of our car (a Picasso) on the motorway, one of these old motorways that have bends which wouldn't be allowed in a modern road. All the safety features of the car and the road combined to make it an injury-free accident, but I would always consider safety as a major factor in buying a car now.

These days we have a VW campervan, so I imagine it wouldn't do pedestrians too much good, but I made sure to get one with airbags for driver and passenger.

I reckon as soon as you start thinking that the likelihood of an accident is low, that's when you getting closer to one.

[Daniel]

A couple of years ago my wife lost control of our car (a Picasso) on the motorway, one of these old motorways that have bends which wouldn't be allowed in a modern road. All the safety features of the car and the road combined to make it an injury-free accident, but I would always consider safety as a major factor in buying a car now.

These days we have a VW campervan, so I imagine it wouldn't do pedestrians too much good, but I made sure to get one with airbags for driver and passenger.

I reckon as soon as you start thinking that the likelihood of an accident is low, that's when you getting closer to one.
How does that make sense? :mark:

Was the woman tailgating me this morning less close to an accident because her car had more stars than mine?

The biggest cause of accidents is people and when you start to forget that then and only then are you closer to an accident.

Why was your wife driving in such a way that she could lose control? I can hand on heart say that in my 6 and a bit years of driving that other than 2 moments which were down to really bad tyres and which happened at extremely low speed, I've never not been in control of my car. I've had a couple of fender benders but nothing worse and unless the people who drive down the lane near home way too fast

I'm probably one of the only people to have ever been undertaken on a motorway by a HGV while it's been snowing.

Safety isn't something you go to a showroom and purchase. It's something you chose to be responsible for......

Lets just say I feel safer with Caroline in her car which is too old for an NCAP test and might get 1 star at best and doesn't even have airbags than with someone who can lose control of a 5 or 10 or 10000 star car :mark:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Yes it makes sense and I wouldn't want my shiny new car being damaged either. But you can understand what I'm saying too ;) I would say it's actually the opposite. It's usually the people in newer cars that are trying to undercut or who are driving stupidly in the lanes. I've never had a near miss in the lanes near home with an old car. It's always cars which are only about 3 or 4 years old at most.

Maybe thats because there are more cars an the road that are 'newer' ? :dozey:


How many cars are sold in the UK every year?

[Daniel]

Maybe thats because there are more cars an the road that are 'newer' ? :dozey:


How many cars are sold in the UK every year?
Jon, "old" cars don't just disappear off the road. They still get driven around.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Jon, "old" cars don't just disappear off the road. They still get driven around.

So if that is the case why don't we see that many cars from the 80's on the roads anymore?


I bet if you did a survey of 1000 cars on the roads most would be less than 5 years old.

[fandango]

How does that make sense? :mark:

Was the woman tailgating me this morning less close to an accident because her car had more stars than mine?

The biggest cause of accidents is people and when you start to forget that then and only then are you closer to an accident.

Why was your wife driving in such a way that she could lose control? I can hand on heart say that in my 6 and a bit years of driving that other than 2 moments which were down to really bad tyres and which happened at extremely low speed, I've never not been in control of my car. I've had a couple of fender benders but nothing worse and unless the people who drive down the lane near home way too fast

I'm probably one of the only people to have ever been undertaken on a motorway by a HGV while it's been snowing.

Safety isn't something you go to a showroom and purchase. It's something you chose to be responsible for......

Lets just say I feel safer with Caroline in her car which is too old for an NCAP test and might get 1 star at best and doesn't even have airbags than with someone who can lose control of a 5 or 10 or 10000 star car :mark:

Not quite sure what you're getting at, there. If your intention is to make a distinction between having an accident and coming out of one safely then I agree.

However, you will have an accident. It'll happen, as will I. That's the attitude I have, and it could be that we're in agreement, but you give the impression that your control of your vehicle is enough to keep you safe. It all helps, but don't kid yourself.

My everyday mode of transport is a motorbike, so I find that having that attitude keeps me sharp enough to avoid accidents, and I have near-misses everyday. So in a country where dangerous and agressive driving is the norm, I prefer to have the safety options when I can. That, and just getting out of the idiots' ways to let them kill themselves, is what works for me.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

However, you will have an accident. It'll happen, as will I. That's the attitude I have, and it could be that we're in agreement, but you give the impression that your control of your vehicle is enough to keep you safe. It all helps, but don't kid yourself.
.

Not necessarily. My dad has been driving for almost 40 years without one accident.

[Daniel]

Oh ffs Jon. Wake up and smell the coffee. Cars die for gods sake. I had a 1980's Audi 80 and it was a bucket of crap and I got rid of it and cars like that don't magically go back on the road :rolleyes: Cars rust, bits break and cars sometimes aren't economical to keep on the road. Comprende? That might be why there aren't very many model T's or VW Beetle's or 2CV's still driving around on the roads.....

In England 52% of cars were older than 6 years old, In Wales that figure is 55% and in Scotland that figure was 40%.

Not to mention that in England 21% of cars were between 3-6 years old, Wales 21% and Scotland 27%

Under 3 years England 27%, Wales 24% and Scotland 33%.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBASE/Expodata/Spreadsheets/D7798.xls

If we assumed that 1/3rd of the cars in the 3-6 year period are over the age of 5 years then the figures are so. England 59% of cars older than 62% for Wales and 49% for Scotland. Surprise surprise most cars are older than 5 years. Most people who have older cars are just happy enough to be driving them rather than driving up someone's arse in their penis extension trying to show that they are somehow better and more important than other people.

It may seem somehow like sour grapes but it's not :crazy: I'm more than able to go out tomorrow and get finance for a small 5 star NCAP car if I want but quite frankly I don't suddenly see that making my life so much better. I feel happy for people like Carl who get a good deal on a new Vauxhall every few years, can afford to buy a car with cash and don't end up losing much on it. For people like Carl it's certainly worth it but most of us don't have relatives who work for a car manufacturer and can't afford to pay cash for cars. To go out and buy a car and then 3 years later it's worth about a third of that (just like your Punto will be) is just financially boneheaded considering there's very little advantage over a used car other than the fact that the paintwork is nice and shiny. I'll tell you what. If you dropped £27k in my hands tomorrow I'd be off to an Alfa dealership so fast it wouldn't be funny and I'd have me a V6 Brera and you know what I don't know how many NCAP stars it has and I'm not bothered to be perfectly honest. It's a desirable car and I could see myself owning one from new purely to make sure it's not been used and abused. Any car which is not desirable is merely a means of transport and that's a sad fact that you'll get used to when your car gets old, or someone scratches it, goes into it in a car park and so on.

Just as people are paranoid about their children getting nabbed by paedophiles in the park or other such ridiculous things we've had it drummed into our heads that dying in a car crash is a huge danger to us and we should get a new car to be safe and if we have a 1 or 2 star car we're not safe. I'm not saying car makers shouldn't make cars safer. It's a no brainer, of course they should! But dying in a car accident is not the biggest thing you should have to fear in your life.

Fandango. I say this with absolutely no satisfaction whatsoever. I saw one of my best friends dying right in front of me in a motorcycle accident just over 3 years ago so anyone who really thinks that an accident on the roads is the biggest danger to them yet rides a bike is being hypocritical in the extreme.

Yes I will have accidents. It's human nature and the odds are very good that it will happen. But will it be an accident that's going to put me in harms way? Probably not? And will having decent tyres, keeping a proper distance to the car in front of me help to minimise that risk? You betcha! It was raining so hard today at one stage that I must have been following about 200m behind the car in front which was probably about 5 times what most others were doing. A modern car doesn't stop me from driving like a moron.

[CarlMetro]

Was the woman tailgating me this morning less close to an accident because her car had more stars than mine?

No, she wasn't. however if an accident had occured then she would have been less likely that you to suffer from serious injury or death.

As someone who has been covering an average of 35,000 miles a year for a lot longer than he cares to remember, and having driven anything from a Honda Vision to 150ton articulated lorries I would say that my driving experience is a little above the average man/woman. In all that time, and all those miles, I have never had a single at-fault accident. I have been hit three times and had a car pull out in front of me whilst riding a motorbike though.

You may recall an incident which happened to me not so long ago, when I was rear-ended by a Toyota Landcruiser. At the time I was in a new Passat estate, which was written off, such was the impact. However I could have suffered serious injury if the car had been a lot older. I was actually told this by the traffic police officer who attended the scene.

No matter how good, or how experienced a driver you are, there is no safeguard against the numpties of the world, but I would rather be in a five star car than a two star car when the next one of them decides to not pay enough attention to there driving.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Jon, "old" cars don't just disappear off the road. They still get driven around.

:s tareup:


Oh ffs Jon. Wake up and smell the coffee. Cars die for gods sake. I had a 1980's Audi 80 and it was a bucket of crap and I got rid of it and cars like that don't magically go back on the road :rolleyes: Cars rust, bits break and cars sometimes aren't economical to keep on the road. .

:erm: Thanks for contradicting yourself.


Ok

So basically the data shows

2001-2007 - 50% of cars on the road
1885-2001 - 50% of cars on the road


I'm afraid your point about bad, careless driving is all done by drivers in newer cars is rubbish.

If I had a 15 year old Land Rover I wouldn't be that worried about getting scrapes and dents in it. I'd also feel more powerful than other drivers because I'd have more road presence.

I try to drive my car as carefully as I can because I would be gutted if I got a scrape on it. :)

[Daniel]

No, she wasn't. however if an accident had occured then she would have been less likely that you to suffer from serious injury or death.

As someone who has been covering an average of 35,000 miles a year for a lot longer than he cares to remember, and having driven anything from a Honda Vision to 150ton articulated lorries I would say that my driving experience is a little above the average man/woman. In all that time, and all those miles, I have never had a single at-fault accident. I have been hit three times and had a car pull out in front of me whilst riding a motorbike though.

You may recall an incident which happened to me not so long ago, when I was rear-ended by a Toyota Landcruiser. At the time I was in a new Passat estate, which was written off, such was the impact. However I could have suffered serious injury if the car had been a lot older. I was actually told this by the traffic police officer who attended the scene.

No matter how good, or how experienced a driver you are, there is no safeguard against the numpties of the world, but I would rather be in a five star car than a two star car when the next one of them decides to not pay enough attention to there driving.

I don't disagree Carl. My point is that if stupid woman in Land Cruiser had been driving a car she perceived to be less safe then perhaps she'd have paid more attention ;) I'd be an idiot to argue that a 2 star car is better or as good as a 5 star one. I'm simply trying to say that just as there's little chance of a child being molested by a paedophile there's a very low probability that we'll be involved in an accident serious enough to cause serious injury. If for my next car I have a choice between two equally good cars and one is safer I'll go with the safer one but it won't be the single deciding factor is all I'm saying. Every single bloody day i drive at about 20-30 down the local lane and almost get cleaned up. Today there were two cars and a van who were going to fast for the conditions. People don't seem to understand the danger they're putting themselves and others in just so they can get home a minute or two early. Knowing my car is only a 2 star car won't make me drive differently because the main danger to me is people who seem to be blissfully unaware of the danger they're putting people in.

[Daniel]

:s tareup:



:erm: Thanks for contradicting yourself.


Ok

So basically the data shows

2001-2007 - 50% of cars on the road
1885-2001 - 50% of cars on the road


I'm afraid your point about bad, careless driving is all done by drivers in newer cars is rubbish.

If I had a 15 year old Land Rover I wouldn't be that worried about getting scrapes and dents in it. I'd also feel more powerful than other drivers because I'd have more road presence.

I try to drive my car as carefully as I can because I would be gutted if I got a scrape on it. :)

I'm about this close to adding you to my ignore list :rolleyes:

If by contradicting myself you mean backing up my point with evidence then yes I did "contradict" myself.

I never said all bad driving is done by people driving new cars. If I had made that point yes it would be a rubbish point. But you simply made it up. Don't put words in my mouth!

Cars are like people. Logically if you have cars some of them are going to die. This is why millions of 80 year olds aren't suddenly born each year and that's why there aren't more R reg 406's like on the planet now than there were in 1998.

If I had a 15 year old Range Rover I wouldn't want to kill someone or scratch someone elses car. I treat Caroline's 14 year old Subaru with as much care as I treated my dad's brand new van with back in Australia. Why should I drive any more carefully or less carefully because of a stupid piece of metal that can be replaced? People can't, cars can.

Where does the data show what you're trying to say it does?

[Flat.tyres]

Daniel, you are very agressive. JB made a valid point in my opinion and you just shout all over him.

You might be a very good driver as you claim to be but what does that have to do with the arguement. Say you got your Alfa. Would you drive it just the same as you do now? If so, then what justification is there for your opinion that people drive any differently with a safer car?

By the way, if you don't like answering what I consider is a civil question, then don't get upset and feel free to add me to your special list ;)

[Alfa Fan]

Just ignore Daniel. He's always right. We are mere mortals in comparison.....

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I never said all bad driving is done by people driving new cars. If I had made that point yes it would be a rubbish point. But you simply made it up. Don't put words in my mouth!



Yes you did!!! :rolleyes:


I've never had a near miss in the lanes near home with an old car. It's always cars which are only about 3 or 4 years old at most.

[Daniel]

That's my personal experience on one particular piece of tarmac. As I said I never said ALL bad driving is done by people in new cars. :rolleyes:

[janneppi]

Are you getting near misses with old cars further away from your home then? :p :

[Daniel]

Are you getting near misses with old cars further away from your home then? :p :
The roads I travel on further from home are much better and much wider :) There are places around here where you just can't fit two cars down the road at the same time. A lot of people just keep on going regardless and you're forced to stop or risk and accident :crazy:

[Caroline]

Talk about going round in circles.

Seriously, if you own a car and you have a modicum of sense you are more likely to be a considerate or careful driver.

Works vans, taxis and cars driven by people who basically shouldn't be on the road (in my experience younger males with too much testosterone) tend to be driven in a more aggressive manner. And therefore less carefully. (I hate generalising!) Try living in Wales, hilly single track roads used in all weathers. You soon get a picture of who drives with consideration for others.

I loathe those people in their new shiny big cars who drive right up behind you with that "I own the road' mentality. Dave is correct (in the 172mph thread). It isn't a right to drive a car.

[fandango]

.... Fandango. I say this with absolutely no satisfaction whatsoever. I saw one of my best friends dying right in front of me in a motorcycle accident just over 3 years ago so anyone who really thinks that an accident on the roads is the biggest danger to them yet rides a bike is being hypocritical in the extreme.

I find it hard to understand your point. Are you saying I'm a hypocrite for riding a motorbike but being mindful of accidents? That's fair enough, but I never said I thought it was the biggest danger to me.

I agree with Carl. Better to be in the safe car if possible. Especially as there doesn't seem to be anything to make people (in general) drive safer.

BTW I could never use an example of a friend's death to back up a fecky little point in a discussion as insignificant as this, but if you think it's okay, then I suppose that's fine.

[Daniel]

What a rude and insulting thing to suggest that I would cheaply use a friend's death purely for my own good in an argument on an internet forum. I merely said that if you to go on about safety and then drive around on a bike it was hypocritical.

That's a cheap shot if ever there was one on this forum.

[Rollo]

A motorbike by virtue of the fact that it offers zero protection in a motor accident must by inference be a zero star vehicle. This doesn't however change the fact that motorbike riders are by definition more aware of the space around them; this by influence makes them better "drivers".

I drive a Ford Ka - 3 stars. 3 stars counts for bugger all if I meet one of these buggers on the road.


I'm pretty sure my Nissan Titan pickup will smoosh any car and most SUVs that wander in front of it.

This bothers me. Having just driven in the USA for the past 2 weeks in a 5 star Ford Focus, I still felt intimidated by Tundras, F250s, Escalades, Navigators and H3s. On the whole I would suggest that they were driven by the same sorts of people in any other car; thus would be on the whole incompotent for the vehicle.
Such vehicles are incongruous with "normal" passenger vehicles and the sooner they're taken off the roads the better. The fact that someone with a regular car licence can pound around in 3 tonne vehicles is nothing short of madness.

I draw reference to:
KE=1/2mv^2

If v^2 is equal then the other determinant of where the Kinetic Energy is going to be dissapated is mass. The argument runs roughly, that if a big thing hits a little thing, then the big thing will usually win.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Such vehicles are incongruous with "normal" passenger vehicles and the sooner they're taken off the roads the better. The fact that someone with a regular car licence can pound around in 3 tonne vehicles is nothing short of madness.

I draw reference to:
KE=1/2mv^2

If v^2 is equal then the other determinant of where the Kinetic Energy is going to be dissapated is mass. The argument runs roughly, that if a big thing hits a little thing, then the big thing will usually win.

Thats true.

If my 5 star Punto had a crash with a 5star Volvo XC90 then the Volvo would come out better because in effect its a 'smaller' crash for the Volvo.

[fandango]

What a rude and insulting thing to suggest that I would cheaply use a friend's death purely for my own good in an argument on an internet forum. I merely said that if you to go on about safety and then drive around on a bike it was hypocritical.

That's a cheap shot if ever there was one on this forum.


My apologies. I had no intention of offending you. It's just that sometimes these stories can remind others of similar tragedies in their own experience, and I don't really think it's necessary. That's all.

As for being hypocritical for commenting, or as you say going on, about safety, while riding a bike, well I accept your point. However, I find it helps me keep a cool head and avoid aggressive posters, I mean drivers.

[Daniel]

Tragedies happen. What happened happened and I merely meant it as a reminder of how unsafe bikes are in the sense that they don't forgive mistakes on the part of the rider or a driver. Ever since that accident (my friend's own fault to be bluntly honest) I've always been more mindful of bike riders in my actions as a driver because I know that the slightest mistake on my part could spell death or serious injury for someone else.