SCSA issued red card

[cjhill2002]

Just read in motorsport news that SCSA has been given a red card and has therefore been canned for 2008.

BRSCC say they are launcing a rescue package to try and save the series.

Is this really it?

Hope not

[PitMarshal]

Haven't seen the article yet, but it wouldn't suprise me. It's worth bearing in mind though that what the red card means is that you lose championship status, but can still run as a series - until last year this is how Britcar was running.

[R3ROK]

I hope not :(

[acorn]

what difference does it make to a) the spectator and b) the teams if it runs as a series rather than a championship?

[pickup]

I don't think it helps when motorsport news headline it as "OVAL SERIES IS OVER" makes it sound like the whole thing is finished and certainly wont help attract new fans, if the series continues to attract more drivers and the efforts of all concerned pay off then i'm sure it could gain championship status again.(MSA have announced that next year grids will have to average 18 cars to continue as a recognised championship 2 up on this year)
The other thing that i read in this article is that other series also red carded are also run by the BRSCC club f3,super silhouette,Fiat racing challenge but no mention of any other championships under threat is this just coincidence.

[acorn]

and what's with some of the new for 2008 championships? the current tvr tuscan challenge(which appears to have less than 50% tuscans in it) hasn't exactly had large grids this year yet give it another name and its suddenly approved.

scsa (and oval racing) is a niche category which should be encouraged and should be looked on as a separate issue to the plethora of road course categories which can easily be combined into single grids(and i don't mean multi class but similar performance)

[car20]

well the way that i see it they have got what they have always wanted in oval racing run out the country,

there is loads of class of racing that have different class's run as one race (ford saloons being one) how about the btcc when there car numbers went down under 16 did they get a yellow card ????? some one correct me ( the msa glory boys)

yes scsa has been under pressure for the past two years in low car numbers but saying that it could be a chance to come back stronger without added pressure to get numbers up quickly!!

will be interesting to hear the official line on this

[PitMarshal]

what difference does it make to a) the spectator and b) the teams if it runs as a series rather than a championship?

Basically it means that points cannot be awarded for race finishes, and so you cannot have an overall champion at the end of the season.

I do wonder if the MSA have really thought this through though. Yes, under the rules they probably didn't have much choice, but the whole purpose of the card system was a reaction to resources (particularly marshals) being stretched by too many poorly supported events. The Pickup Oval Championship is now fairly well established and I can't really see them dropping it so the Rockingham race meetings don't go away.

Having said that of course, I think I'm right in saying that the other BRSCC championships that have been red-carded have all been support races at Rockingham this year, so perhaps that's the ploy - kill off all the support formulae and the meeting loses viability anyway.

[Abo]

MSA have announced that next year grids will have to average 18 cars to continue as a recognised championship 2 up on this year)

Funny that, when you consider 16 is the number of entries for Motorfest, according to the SCSA website...

[LessThanSte]

You cant 'officially' give out points?

Lol

Have to be unofficial then.

The MSA are a waste of time and appear to be trying to kill motorsport (except the BTCC of course) in this country!

[madphotog]

I am always trying to be positive and look on the bright side so here is my "two penneth":-

We were advised that we needed 18 next year to be an official series next year but I have since been told (unofficailly) that the 18 car ruling may be delayed until 2009.

There are many people behind the scenes working very hard to boost the profile of the series and promote Rockingham and the SCSA MAC Tools V8 series in particular through various meetings, so perhaps we need to await the outcome of these before getting the undertakers in!!!

Hopefully we shall have the largest grid for 2+ years at Motorfest which will be very encouraging. Be positive folks, we have had more cars this year than last for every race meeting and unless I am very much mistaken, the racing and standard of driving has also been better meaning much less damage and therefore cheaper to run. :mad:

[Dave17]

..... the racing and standard of driving has also been better meaning much less damage and therefore cheaper to run. :mad:

What "racing"? Every round this year has been a demo that gradually picked up pace. There was hardly any racing which in turn lead to only one car in the wall all season.

I'm sorry to have to say but you can only flog a dead horse for so long, it will eventually turn up its hoofs.

It was only the pickups that kept me marshalling at Rockingham this season.

[deadsquirrel]

I'm sorry to have to say but you can only flog a dead horse for so long, it will eventually turn up its hoofs.

It was only the pickups that kept me marshalling at Rockingham this season.
I'm sure everyone who's spending time and money to keep it going will appreciate that!

If SCSA dies now, it will probably be the last time we see V8 stockcars or their sort on the oval PERIOD. We're unlikely to see Open Wheel racing on the oval either. So that leaves Pickups as (possibly) the only oval racing series in the UK, if they choose to return next year.

[Nick Brad]

Demo's, hmmm must have missed them. Drivers taking it a bit easier in less than ideal conditions to make sure that all the cars come home in one piece, seen plenty of that. Although the last round I think it was plain to see that everyone who was capable of pushing to the limit, was doing so and provided great entertainment for all involved.
To be honest Dave I am surprised with you being a marshall especially, I'd have thought you'd be of the same opinion as me, ie that the trucks have been the disappointing ones this year with lots of unnecessary accidents and caution periods. They seem to have become more reckless than they have ever been in the past and all I see is a lot of hard work by teams going down the drain.

I really hope this red card stuff isn't final, but if it is I shalln't be abandoning the series or teams that have put so much hard work in, i'll follow wherever we have to go.
I would like to thank two men for ruining our series with all their bull though, I shalln't post their names, but needless to say they both came in saying they wanted to help the series and make it grow. All they did though was try and turn it to crap for their own political reasons. Sadly they were the two people who could have helped Duane and co make SCSA a massive success. :(

[truckmonster]

Demo's, hmmm must have missed them. Drivers taking it a bit easier in less than ideal conditions to make sure that all the cars come home in one piece, seen plenty of that. Although the last round I think it was plain to see that everyone who was capable of pushing to the limit, was doing so and provided great entertainment for all involved.
[[To be honest Dave I am surprised with you being a marshall especially, I'd have thought you'd be of the same opinion as me, ie that the trucks have been the disappointing ones this year with lots of unnecessary accidents and caution periods. They seem to have become more reckless than they have ever been in the past and all I see is a lot of hard work by teams going down the drain.]

I really hope this red card stuff isn't final, but if it is I shalln't be abandoning the series or teams that have put so much hard work in, i'll follow wherever we have to go.
I would like to thank two men for ruining our series with all their bull though, I shalln't post their names, but needless to say they both came in saying they wanted to help the series and make it grow. All they did though was try and turn it to crap for their own political reasons. Sadly they were the two people who could have helped Duane and co make SCSA a massive success. :(
I disagree Nick ,how can you say the pick ups have been disappointing.The pick ups must be the most entertaining formula on both the oval and circuits,over the past 3 years an this year is no exeption.The races and finishes have been so close and the championship(overall) is close!

[Nick Brad]

Quite easily in the context I used it. ;)
They have disappointed me with the amount of yellows they've produced this season, the thing we all love about the pickups is that they can race so close together without crashing. It seems lately they're pushing too hard though and it's costing money and time, not to mention effort for the clean up crews.
I don't doubt the close finishes or how close the points battle is, (I can count on one hand how many times I've looked at points tables for both series combined,) in that respect they still impress, but they're becoming a little too crash happy for my liking.

[Lauren-69xx]

dont shout at me but i only go to rockingham to see the v8 cars as ther engines are so loud and god do they fly by when you watch them on the straight the trucks just dont sound right for gentleman start your engines maybe they should put a really loud exhaust on them. the racing with trucks is excellent but i probally wont make the trip to rockingham if the v8s are not there.

[car20]

I would like to thank two men for ruining our series with all their bull though, I shalln't post their names, but needless to say they both came in saying they wanted to help the series and make it grow. All they did though was try and turn it to crap for their own political reasons. Sadly they were the two people who could have helped Duane and co make SCSA a massive success. :(

Come on you can name drop :) i won't tell any one ;) honest ;)

[firemansam]

sorry but i am with truckmonster. having been to rockingham for 4 meetings this year and i beleive the pickups are easily more entertaining than the scsa cars. dont get me wrong i love the scsa cars but the last 2 years are just not the same. i mean west-tec have droped out as the series isnt the same no more and look at this season. in one race there was half a laps difference between the front runners and the back markers then the next lap they were bunched up again. explain that?

[truckmonster]

There will always be the odd mishap in pickups, its the type of racing, you see lots of yellows in Nascar too but it doesnt make the fans stay away does it ?,but watching just 10 SCSA cars going around will not bring in the crowds,its a good job there hasnt been too many yellows in SCSA because the race would finish in single figures . :s pin:

[car20]

here we go again PUT Vs V8'S

two different races, past two years have been to forget for scsa NOTHING new but really, the v8's is what rockingham was built for as for,

they both have there own fan base strange that! it's almost like Rugby you either like league or union not both!

I my self watch PUT but prefer V8'S don't matter too me how many there is (simple pleasure) for the V8's to go I won't be back to the ROCK and i don't doubt say I wan't be alone.

as i can remember the pick up's didn't race on the oval from the word go!!!

but hey we all have our own preference and opinion don't we ?????

[shortb]

It will be intresting to see what this rescue package the BRSCC are working on will be.If they can suddenly pull something out of the hat now,why couldn't anything be done before now?(not a crititism,just asking!)

[car20]

statement taken from msa website:

MSA championship permits awarded for 2008

The Motor Sports Association has awarded championship permits for 2008 following the recommendations of the Motor Racing Championship Control Panel (RCCP) which met last month.

The RCCP is a peer group made up of clubs, circuits and venues to consider the applications from events applying for championship status. All applications to the RCCP have to be made by a lead club on behalf of the event.

A total of 119 applications were received (118 in 2006) of which 13 were new applications. After seven of these were refused, 112 permits were granted, although 11 championships were warned that if their grid numbers did not meet the required criteria in 2008, they would lose their permit the following year.

At the same time, the panel agreed to raise the minimum grid numbers from 16 to 18 cars for the 2008 season, to ensure that on-going championships applying for renewal are in the strongest possible health.

The RCCP approved permits for the following new events:
• Bike-Sports Championship – 750 MC
• Toyota MR2 Championship – 750 MC
• Tuscan & Sagaris Challenge - BRSCC
• Star of Mallory FF1600 Championship - BARC
• BARC/Dunlop Sport Maxx Cup - BARC
• (Sponsor) Ginetta G50 Cup - BARC
• SRCC Historic Sports 2000 - SRCC
• Vredestein/Soilmec JEC Jaguar Saloons – Jaguar Enthusiasts` Club
• SEMSEC Single Seater Championship - SEMSEC
• Scottish MRC Classic Sports & Saloons Championship – Scottish MRC

The RCCP declined to renew championship permits for the following events:
• SCSA V8 Trophy Championship
• BRSCC Club F3 Championship
• VSR Super Silhouette Championship
• BRSCC Fiat Racing Challenge

Colin Hilton, MSA Chief Executive, said:
"In recent years, we have significantly reduced the number of championship permits awarded, and the panel has decided that from 2008 the minimum grid level will be raised from 16 to 18 cars. By making the retention of a championship permit more difficult, the onus is even more on the clubs to ensure that their championships are attracting strong numbers by providing good value for their competitors."




5 September 2007

[car20]

statement taken from msa website:

MSA championship permits awarded for 2008

The Motor Sports Association has awarded championship permits for 2008 following the recommendations of the Motor Racing Championship Control Panel (RCCP) which met last month.

The RCCP is a peer group made up of clubs, circuits and venues to consider the applications from events applying for championship status. All applications to the RCCP have to be made by a lead club on behalf of the event.

A total of 119 applications were received (118 in 2006) of which 13 were new applications. After seven of these were refused, 112 permits were granted, although 11 championships were warned that if their grid numbers did not meet the required criteria in 2008, they would lose their permit the following year.

At the same time, the panel agreed to raise the minimum grid numbers from 16 to 18 cars for the 2008 season, to ensure that on-going championships applying for renewal are in the strongest possible health.

The RCCP approved permits for the following new events:
• Bike-Sports Championship – 750 MC
• Toyota MR2 Championship – 750 MC
• Tuscan & Sagaris Challenge - BRSCC
• Star of Mallory FF1600 Championship - BARC
• BARC/Dunlop Sport Maxx Cup - BARC
• (Sponsor) Ginetta G50 Cup - BARC
• SRCC Historic Sports 2000 - SRCC
• Vredestein/Soilmec JEC Jaguar Saloons – Jaguar Enthusiasts` Club
• SEMSEC Single Seater Championship - SEMSEC
• Scottish MRC Classic Sports & Saloons Championship – Scottish MRC

The RCCP declined to renew championship permits for the following events:
• SCSA V8 Trophy Championship
• BRSCC Club F3 Championship
• VSR Super Silhouette Championship
• BRSCC Fiat Racing Challenge

Colin Hilton, MSA Chief Executive, said:
"In recent years, we have significantly reduced the number of championship permits awarded, and the panel has decided that from 2008 the minimum grid level will be raised from 16 to 18 cars. By making the retention of a championship permit more difficult, the onus is even more on the clubs to ensure that their championships are attracting strong numbers by providing good value for their competitors."

[racing59]

Just read in motorsport news that SCSA has been given a red card and has therefore been canned for 2008.

BRSCC say they are launcing a rescue package to try and save the series.

Is this really it?

Hope not

The answer is thus:

A red card means that it will lose it's permit to run as a "Championship", what it doesn't mean is that it's canned.

Can I remind everyone that BRITCAR ran for four years without a MSA permit, ie: non-championship. No championship points. They raced for the race wins/class wins. That was it. It started steadily, and grew.

This season is Britcar's first championship year, with a MSA permit (and rules!)

I am sure that our series co-ordinator will arrive on here with what is going on, so I'll shut my trap until he comes on with the full word.

As far as I am concerned, we WILL be racing next year, with more cars than this year, and a series with a much healthier outlook.

To Dave17, please think before you type. It is very easy to type things on a forum that you would not say in a face to face conversation.

Our first races of the season were built up from a steady start for a couple of reasons, the first being to help the rookies (like me) get into the groove faster than getting into the wall, because we have have ZERO testing, and ZERO chance of testing. The July meeting was a damp start, and we ran up steady again to get used to the conditions, as well as letting Carl get going. August was a go from the start, and thanks to the work we did in the early meetings helped close up the field, and other than little ol' me with my V7 plug spitter.

I am very grateful to the other seasoned drivers for doing this, not only has it helped me get started a lot better than watching everyone else disappear into the distance, it helped no-end when we raced on drying tracks. We worked together to stay out of the wall, and provide an exciting V8 fix to those who wanted to see us. I am proud to be associated with them and this series.

Here endeth the sermon.

[Nick Brad]

Come on you can name drop :) i won't tell any one ;) honest ;)

I'd really love to, but it could damage efforts to keep V8 trophy alive. If you want to come and discuss it with me at Rockingham next weekend, i'll happily chat with you about it purely on a non-formal, non team or series representory basis. They are my own thoughts which may not even be shared by my own team mates, let alone officials with the series. :) :s mokin:

[car20]

you lot will do anything to get more to attend ;)

with the series losing msa credit does that men you will no longer have to have an A licence?? and will it allow miguel and others who were interested in driving do so???

Nick if i am allowed to get the day of work i will make a bee-line to your spotter gantry for a non formal chat on the roof!

i wouldn't want anyone to get into trouble.

[turn 4 mad]

Without the MSA credit, would this make it easyer for rookies to pass there rookie test, i.e. without msa officials having to be present, etc.

Also just stop and think, not only about the 10 cars or so that have been out there this season, but all the crew, the ladys of the teams that cater for everyone, theres alot of us out there and we will fight on and make this work next season and beyond.

[racing59]

A comment on another forum mentione T-Cars - which hasn't even made 10 cars this season, and hasn't been shown any card!!!

Ahhh but it's for the children!

So are we!! We entertain more children than they ever will! They have 8 kids (in the cars!), we have many many times that in our audience!

[Henry Cutts]

I’m sure an unofficial championship will appear! The rules are very much intended to reduce the number of under performing road course series, seems a bit odd when there is only 2 classes that race the oval. Now just need the championship down to National B like the Pickups then you will get some more drivers!

[Nick Brad]

you lot will do anything to get more to attend ;)

with the series losing msa credit does that men you will no longer have to have an A licence?? and will it allow miguel and others who were interested in driving do so???

Nick if i am allowed to get the day of work i will make a bee-line to your spotter gantry for a non formal chat on the roof!

i wouldn't want anyone to get into trouble.

I look forward to chatting to ya if you can make it, Can't miss me with the ChasinRacin.com hat and gold watch that can be seen from space ;) At a guess Miguel and others will be kept fully appraised of the situation and if the MSA are gone, I'm sure he'd be here like a shot to race with us. safety will still always come first, of that I have no doubt, but I really don't see the red card as a bad thing long term.

[pickup]

The answer is thus:

A red card means that it will lose it's permit to run as a "Championship", what it doesn't mean is that it's canned.

That's why in my earlier post i said i was dissapointed with the motorsport news headline "Oval Series is Over" it's giving people totally the wrong impression and even reads that they "have axed the SCSA oval racing category from the national racing calender" to most people reading this it would seem that SCSA is not racing next year which as we know is totally not true,it doesn't mention that the series will continue.
Maybe worth the SCSA organisers getting in touch with MN and asking them to print a more relevant story or at least to express dissapointment at such poor coverage.

[Old Stock Nut]

Colin Hilton, MSA Chief Executive, said:......By making the retention of a championship permit more difficult, the onus is even more on the clubs to ensure that their championships are attracting strong numbers by providing good value for their competitors."

The end of this quote says it all yet again - "good value for the competitors". What about the bl**dy fans!!!! Rob and I amongst many have been saying for ages that motorsport in this country is run for the drivers not the fans. SCSA has been very good at involving the fans in it and the MSA can carry on organising championships for drivers benefits for as long as they like - leave us with our oval racing then and stick your pathetic championships.

I would be more than willing to help keep track of the points for any SCSA championship so that we can have a motorsport at a class venue run for the whole family rather than wiggly racing in all sorts of gash four wheelers on tracks that look worse than some old fourth division football grounds of 40 years ago. Why should it matter if we organise a points system ourselves. Doubt if anyone at the MSA can count up enough to keep track of ours anyway - rant over yet again.

[Duane]

Evening all, the official reply is.....

The Red card was repoted to me some 4 1/2 weeks ago and i called a meeting and discussed the "Rescue Package" at the last meeting with all car owners at track that weekend, i stated how it should work for next year and now we wait for all the infomation we need to flow in before we can put the said package into place, in part info such as race dates, Garage space and race configuration.

The BRSCC have nothing to do with our rescue package apart from supplying the info required, but in fairness to them Iain Brown of the BRSCC gave the V8's good account at the MSA meeting, it could of been worse !!!!!!

So to offset the red card we have to have 18 cars registerd by December 31st 2007, to get 18 cars registerd we need the required info, if it meets the requirements of the 18+ cars then i feel sure we can get the numbers the MSA and the BRSCC need to give us Championship status for 2008 onwards.

for 2008 my understanding is that if we have 18 cars then we will be given a localised yellow card to run only at Rockingham and Lausitz.

and i totally agree with OSN, its always about competitors and not the paying public, both the V8's and the PUT's put on a show and "preen their feathers" (Quote) for the public, maybe we are the new face of british motor racing, open and friendly that the old boy network can't quite take on board, so please dont have another PUT's V's V8's because we need each other to succeed together.

Thanks for all your support guy's n girls, we all appreciate it

Duane

[turn 4 mad]

AMEN!

[Nick Brad]

for 2008 my understanding is that if we have 18 cars then we will be given a localised yellow card to run only at Rockingham and Lausitz.

Can you just clarify for me please Duane, does that mean we'd be restricted to those two tracks, or that the yellow card would only be in effect for those tracks and not any other potential venues.


....so please dont have another PUT's V's V8's because we need each other to succeed together.

Thanks for all your support guy's n girls, we all appreciate it

Duane

I don't want another split either, I have friends racing in both series and
half the time it's hard to know which area i'll be in, I do honestly believe the pickups have gotten a bit too rowdy this year and let racing standards slip, but that doesn't make me like them any less. :)

[Reynard]

Thanks for clarifying that Duane, muchly appreciated. :up:

[racing59]

I think the only "split" is in some of the 'fans' who enjoy slagging off one or the other.

But to your point Nick, IF the MSA agree to put us back under a localised yellow, it would mean that our championship (as it would be an official championship again!) would only be able to operate (ie: score points) at Rockingham & Lausitz. IF the BRSCC "invited" us to race at Brands, or any one of their other meetings, we would only be there as a non-championship race.

So there's the target - 18 cars to start 2008 as a championship.

Nick - that person with a need for a new engine would be better spending it on a V8....

[Nick Brad]

And it just so happens his friend has a V8 he wants to sell, they really need to do a deal. :p

[Abo]

Couldn't it be fiddled somehow, if we were a couple of cars light? I mean, it wouldn't be Tony Mumford's fault if the car he'd borrowed from Duane for the weekend had injector problems and couldn't run, would it? ;)

[Chigley]

With all due respect to cjhill2002 can this thread be renamed to what the facts are "SCSA issued red card" the title at present is inaccurate, gloom and doom biased, doesn't pose a question and is as bad as the MN headline.

[PitMarshal]

Right, time to get the soap box out, and I'll apologise in advance to all the people I'm going to upset...

Dave17. Have you actually watched a NASCAR race recently? 150 laps of drafting practice followed by a 50-lap crashfest as everyone suddenly realises that to win the race you actually have to cross the line first. That's fine when you have 42 cars starting a race, but when you only have ten its a recipe for disaster. I marshalled the whole of the 2005 season and it wasn't unusual to start the second race with four fewer cars than the first. I'll quite happily trade that for the style of 'racing' we currently have.

Nick, yes the pickups have had more yellows this year but I think you might have missed the reason why. The drivers, to me anyway, have all looked a lot more confident on the oval this year, particularly when they've been drafting. When you've got a group of a dozen trucks running two (and occassionally three) wide on an oval, yellow flags are going to happen sooner or later. And surely both the teams and Sonny need to be given some serious credit for the fact that this doesn't seem to have had much of an impact on entry numbers for subsequent meetings.

Duane, Rob et al. Every year for the last coupe of years various people have promised bigger grids for the future. I would think that even the most optimistic of us would have to admit that it hasn't happened yet. It can't be through lack of cars as if the grapevine is to be belived there's enough chassis around to field at least a twenty car grid if there are the drivers, money and determination to do so. I'm not asking for an absolute statement, but does anyone have any definitive evidence that grid numbers next year will exceed those of this year (not including Motorfest)? Come to think of it, does anyone have any definitive proof that Rockingham won't be a housing estate in five years time? I don't think I've seen anything on that since the MN interview.

And speaking of MN, I hope someone takes them to task over that article. Those of us who are involved in motorsport know that the loss of championship status does not mean that the end is nigh, but the average punter might not. I think MN's article has the potential to cause a lot of damage not just to SCSA but to all the other red card recipients.

Rant over...

[Abo]

will exceed those of this year (not including Motorfest)? Come to think of it, does anyone have any definitive proof that Rockingham won't be a housing estate in five years time? I don't think I've seen anything on that since the MN interview.

Rockingham *cannot* become a housing estate because the ground is too polluted from when it was a steel works.

[pickup]

And speaking of MN, I hope someone takes them to task over that article. Those of us who are involved in motorsport know that the loss of championship status does not mean that the end is nigh, but the average punter might not. I think MN's article has the potential to cause a lot of damage not just to SCSA but to all the other red card recipients.

Rant over...

Couldn't agree more, if they'd stuck to the facts it wouldn't have created such doom and gloom.

As for the yellow flag situation with the trucks i think it's something that will just happen when you've got such close racing and so many competative drivers who want to win, if you take out a few really stupid mistakes usually caused by the same driver then i don't think it's any worse than previous years.

[deadsquirrel]

and if the MSA are gone, I'm sure he'd be here like a shot to race with us. safety will still always come first, of that I have no doubt, but I really don't see the red card as a bad thing long term.

Let me make the point again, no MSA licence, NO RACING.

[Nick Brad]

Let me make the point again, no MSA licence, NO RACING.

How's that work then if the MSA drops us? They still get to dictate to us and try to hold us back after sticking the boot in?


No appology needed for me Pitmarshal, I will give credit to all the teams, (after all, it is the drivers/teams who are responsible,) who make such an effort to get back racing asap after being involved in a crash, they show real dedication to the series. I wonder if confident is the right word to use though, drafting in large packs and running two and three wide is nothing new, they've done it for years now without having such a poor record of cautions. The drivers have always been hungry for the win as well so I can't seem to get my head around why the accident rate has gone up. :confused:

[timtime]

dont shout at me but i only go to rockingham to see the v8 cars as ther engines are so loud and god do they fly by when you watch them on the straight

Lauren

See the Santa Pod thread on this Forum.

For one reason or another I have not made it to Rockingham for any of the rounds so far although hope to be putting that right at the Motorfest. I keep an open mind on the future of SCSA and it would be a shame to see it die but with just 5 or 6 rounds it is always going to be hard to get more people interested. The pick ups rightly claimed the crown as the premier Rockingham series but I dont think they alone could fill the stands. The two series need to work hand in glove for both their futures.

Tim

[Abo]

though, drafting in large packs and running two and three wide is nothing new, they've done it for years now without having such a poor record of cautions.

Have you already forgotten the exploits of the now legendary 'Fantastic' Frank Francis? ;)

[car20]

PUT and more yellow's that's down to everyone wanting to beat poulter this season!

look how determind gavin was to beat him last meeting... to me it was either i was going to win or crash trying!!!

nowt wrong with that now is there but i am tended to side with nick on this one...

take stanty poor guy gets upto speed on the oval runs better and better each race and for what a big hefty repair bill (that is all part of racing i know ) but still from where me and my posse sit there have been i few eye brows raised this season.

PIt marshall picked up a point that i raised a while back about car numbers in scsa about to many false dawns, you have to wonder why?? if your interested then you race or you don't i would rather be told nothing about new drivers than those that are interested or come for a pit walk about during a meeting..

Nothing against anyone who trying to boost car numbers for the series but if there is 10 cars there is 10 not 10 and maybe 2 interested.

[car20]

just a thought can any of the camso V8 drivers from warneton race at rockingham(have a A licence and past rookie test)

and how about the guy in germany who was trying to get the busch cars going he not interested in or been asked maybe 6 rounds at the rock and 2 or 3 in germany ? ( or at belguim ? i think i asked this before but cant remember the reply)

[deadsquirrel]

How's that work then if the MSA drops us? They still get to dictate to us and try to hold us back after sticking the boot in?

As has been said earlier, no-one's being dropped.

MSA are our national motorsport authority and licence race events in the UK. If you have no such licence and race, you are not exempt from the Road Traffic Act, for such things as wreckless/dangerous driving, no MOT or insurance, etc etc etc.

But it DOES feel like someone's sticking the boot in!

[pickup]

Have you already forgotten the exploits of the now legendary 'Fantastic' Frank Francis? ;)

That's what i meant we have a Frank equivalent this year!

[Chigley]

There's a bit of lack of knowledge hysteria going on here.

The red card merely means that SCSA has, for the moment, lost its championship status, it can still run as a series under the MSA remit and license. There is no fact, mention or rumour that the MSA will not license the series.

Ian

[pickup]

This is what SHOULD have been explained in the article in MN!

[Rusty Spanner]

:uhoh: Worried

:( Disappointed

;) Optimistic

:bounce: Not giving up

I think that pretty much sums my feelings up.

[Old Stock Nut]

[quote="deadsquirrel"]MSA are our national motorsport authority and licence race events in the UK. If you have no such licence and race, you are not exempt from the Road Traffic Act, for such things as wreckless/dangerous driving, no MOT or insurance, etc etc etc.
QUOTE]

[Old Stock Nut]

MSA are our national motorsport authority and licence race events in the UK. If you have no such licence and race, you are not exempt from the Road Traffic Act, for such things as wreckless/dangerous driving, no MOT or insurance, etc etc etc.

Does that mean that BRISCA runs under the MSA? If not, how come the boys in blue haven't been there with their little photo machines and a lorry load of tickets?

[SteveA]

Any organisation listed in Motor Vehicles (Off Road Events) Regulations 1995 (Statutory Instrument 1371) may issue event permits. If a permit is issued, the Road Traffic Act doesn't apply.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si1995/Uksi_19951371_en_1.htm

[Abo]

Any organisation listed in Motor Vehicles (Off Road Events) Regulations 1995 (Statutory Instrument 1371) may issue event permits. If a permit is issued, the Road Traffic Act doesn't apply.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si1995/Uksi_19951371_en_1.htm

I don't see BRiSCA or Incarace on that list?

[deadsquirrel]

I don't see BRiSCA or Incarace on that list?
Funny that, that's what I was talking about! :-)

[Abo]

So basically e.g. F1 drivers could be open to prosecution for dangerous driving, according to that Act. Maybe that's why some short oval venues have having insurance issues?

[Nick Brad]

It seems that there is loads more politics involved than I realised, I figured either MSA give you a licence to race as a championship or they dont, never realised that we still have to be covered by them to race legally.

Mind you, I think we should be able to get away with it, after all, John is advertising for the police so surely they'd turn a blind eye. :laugh:

I always thought if I won the Euro millions I'd use the money to build another, smaller, oval in this country. Tbh, the politics would just crush me down and I'd never complete it.

[acorn]

Funny that, that's what I was talking about! :-)

i'm getting deja vu :

http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114715&highlight=IOPD

[Abo]

I always thought if I won the Euro millions I'd use the money to build another, smaller, oval in this country. Tbh, the politics would just crush me down and I'd never complete it.

You'd have a lawyer to deal with all that **** though, Nick...

[Abo]

i'm getting deja vu :

http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114715&highlight=IOPD

I kept reading that as 'iPod' :p

[kjb]

personally im not sure if it makes a lot of difference with a red card or not!it all boils down to finances whether people go racing/or watch racing or not! if some of the entry fees were more reasonable then maybe people would plant their arses in the driving seats more often than not, racing SCSA has never been so cheap (costs wise that is) all we can do is stay possitive and move with the times i.e if there were no ROCKINGHAM to race at in the future, though it would be criminal to do anything but oval/racing at the venue in my oppinion, we would have to look further a field to other tracks to race at!!!
at present it would seem were ok to be racing at the rock for some years to come at least!

[racing59]

I don't think entry fees, come into it really Kev, it's currently about perception of the formula.

1. It's oval - that's BriSCA/National HotRods/Bangers isn't it?
2. It's very very very expensive - you need a budget of £120K for a season.
3. It's madness - no gravel traps - concrete wall!
4. You need to be ex-BTCC or LeMans grade drivers to get into it.
5. Cars cost £30-50K, and a fortune to run.
6. There are lots of crashes, and you'll be dead if you hit that wall at over 25mph.
7. The championship is dead.

All misconceptions.

Answering one point.

Last year, Duane said there would be more cars this year. He did not lie. There are more cars this year regularly competing than last year. Carry on that same growth (roughly 80&#37 ;) and you get 18 next year!

Have faith people.

Rob.

[turn 4 mad]

We all need to be positive at this time, and only positive, theres no point in putting negative comments on the forum, with 1 weekend still to race this season, we have to go out there and make it a good weekend and hopefully more fans at motorfest and drivers from other series will want to come back.
I would like to thank everyone behind the scenes trying to make this work and hopefully better next season-may it continue.

[bravheart]

And this Series (Not a championship) went from strength to strength in the UK!!! its only now in Europe because of the cost of running on the British Circuits i.e Cost of track time!

[Speedworx]

Man the people on TBK forum are really up themselves. They are all happy that SCSA is dead. Keep telling them its not, but they won't listen.

[racing59]

TBK forum?

Where's that?

[Speedworx]

You got PM.

[racing59]

Thanks.

[ascarmarshal]

how about the btcc when there car numbers went down under 16 did they get a yellow card ?????

Who owns TOCA and who at the time was on the Motorsports Council? Answer the current MSA Chairman Alan Gow.

[Tiesse]

Man the people on TBK forum are really up themselves. They are all happy that SCSA is dead. Keep telling them its not, but they won't listen.

I have just been on there & registered. All I saw was a lot of uninformed opinions of a series that a lot of the posters have obviously not experienced based on hearsay!

I felt compelled to post a reply & no doubt I shall be getting some grief from that post, but there you go! With one or two exceptions, they appear to be a bunch of morons!

[pickup]

Thought i'd join the que, where is this TBK forum ?

[Mark]

At the time of the BTCC problems Alan Gow was neither boss of the BTCC nor chairman of the MSA.

[Tiesse]

Thought i'd join the que, where is this TBK forum ?

http://tbk.fameflame.dk/phpBB2/index.php

[pickup]

Many thanks.

[Alfa Fan]

At the time of the BTCC problems Alan Gow was neither boss of the BTCC nor chairman of the MSA.

He was boss of the BTCC but not chairman of the MSA (2005)

[ascarmarshal]

He was boss of the BTCC but not chairman of the MSA (2005)

But he was on the MSA Council

[Alfa Fan]

Yes, but not in charge, so ultimately isn't reponsible for the MSA's actions until he became chairman (late 05/early 06 IIRC)

[Speedworx]

I have just been on there & registered. All I saw was a lot of uninformed opinions of a series that a lot of the posters have obviously not experienced based on hearsay!

I felt compelled to post a reply & no doubt I shall be getting some grief from that post, but there you go! With one or two exceptions, they appear to be a bunch of morons!

Well said. Theres a lot of people there that don't like the series so are happy to slag if off and see it fail.

[Abo]

Well said. Theres a lot of people there that don't like the series so are happy to slag if off and see it fail.

Well it's not called 'flameflame' for nothing...

[SuperAguri]

Well it's not called 'flameflame'

Correct, it's called fameflame :P

I'd just like to mention that I am not one of those people. It's a shame when series go.

[EarWig]

Correct, it's called fameflame :P

I'd just like to mention that I am not one of those people. It's a shame when series go.

Pay us a visit and come on down to the 31 pit.

I`ll treat you to lunch!

Ray

[Abo]

Correct, it's called fameflame :P

I'd just like to mention that I am not one of those people. It's a shame when series go.

Lol, typos ahoy! ;)

[Tiesse]

Pay us a visit and come on down to the 31 pit.

I`ll treat you to lunch!

Ray

I'm SuperAguri & so's my wife.

Cue everyone for a free lunch down at pit 31! (secret password SuperAguri).

[JDPower]

Rockingham *cannot* become a housing estate because the ground is too polluted from when it was a steel works.
I think you'll find that's wrong and the land had to be sorted before Rockingham could be built there, and also the reason houses are being built on the formerly polluted land around Rockingham ;)

[turn 4 mad]

what a happy bunch, lets just think about next week, then next year before we put any more doom and gloom on the forum.

[deadsquirrel]

Well, I got my letter published in Motorsport News this week :)

[Abo]

I didn't buy it, care to summarise? Did you get a response?

[deadsquirrel]

I didn't buy it, care to summarise? Did you get a response?

Letter as follows:

I must take exception to your article entitles 'Oval Series is Over' in last weeks edition. In what was an article about the rationalisation of MSA championships for 2008, you chose to use what I suggest is a misleading, 'tabloid' title. Oval racing (superspeedway, not short oval) is still in its infancy in the UK, and is undeniably damaged by your reporting on this matter. The SCSA Championship has survived several incarnations, but is without doubt one of the most determined and commited set of teams and drivers I have EVER had the priviledge to be involved with. To the casual reader, they might assume that they won't be seeing the SCSA cars next year, thus adding one more nail in the championships coffin; however, you have not detailed the plans that are in place or being agreed now that mean the championship will continue in 2008. Your article only highlighted some of the championships affected by this MSA review, and chose not to name all the championships that have been yellow or redcarded, is there a reason for this?

I hope you can redress this situation with some clarification and further information this week, and help to get oval racing on the British motorsport map. It IS a different beast to 'traditional' motorsport, and I think for that reason, some 'traditionalists' think it is something that should not be allowed to grow.

----------------------------------------
Editor's reply:

Many thanks for your letter - rest assured that, despite it's MN-critical stance, it will be considered for publication in next week's paper. However, I'd just like to respond to a couple of points.

You claim that the SCSA Championship is undeniably damaged by our reporting. Our reporting states a fact - that the SCSA Championship has been red-carded by the governing body of the sport in this country. It does not call into question the commitment of the competitors or series organisers. Quite the opposite - in the story we point out the efforts underway to keep the series going. That is a situation we will carry on reporting during the winter months, whether the outcome is positive or negative.

For whatever reason, the championship has not met the criteria set down by the MSA. It is that sad fact that has caused the real damage here, not MN's reporting of the facts. I can appreciate your frustration, but MN has not red-carded the championship - the MSA has.

You also say 'the casual reader... might assume that they won't be seeing the SCSA cars next year'. In their current guise, they won't. This is the point of the red card. This category has not been given championship status for 2008. At this point in time, this is a fact. If at some point in the future this situation changes, MN will report those facts as and when they emerge. That is the whole point of our weekly news coverage.

You mention the detailed plans in place to help the series. Where are they? Why have you or someone else who is privy to those plans not been proactive and presented them to us prior to this point? Such information would make a great positive story - providing there is some factual substance to it.

Any representative of any championship can get on the 'phone and tell one of my journalists there will be 26 cars on a grid next year, but we have to take that information with a pinch of salt until we get solid proof that that is going to be the case. Otherwise we could end up looking a bit silly when it doesn’t happen.

We did not make an editorial decision not to name all the championships that have been yellow or red-carded - the MSA did not issue that information to us. It has decided not to release information of championships that have been warned.

The thrust of your letter seems to be that it is wrong for us damage championships by reporting bad news about them. But MN is not a fanzine or PR machine, it is a newspaper, and reports good and bad news. I watch every NASCAR race on television, and have witnessed many races at Rockingham. I would love to see a full oval stock car championship in Britain. I would also be happy to run a story saying the SCSA series has been saved if and when that becomes a fact. But I also have a commitment to producing a newspaper that does not shy away from telling the truth.

You might be interested to learn that our journalist spoke to Iain Brown at the BRSCC this morning and he has no issues with what was written.

Kind regards,
Matt

[acorn]

"Any representative of any championship can get on the 'phone and tell one of my journalists there will be 26 cars on a grid next year, but we have to take that information with a pinch of salt until we get solid proof that that is going to be the case. Otherwise we could end up looking a bit silly when it doesn’t happen."

so matt, how come the g50 series has been granted chamionship status for 2008 when they've only sold 4 cars so far. was it on the basis that ginetta told them they are producing 26 cars for initial use in the championship? why the stories about the g50? was it because yopu got invited to the factory and sat in the bare chassis? I REFER YOU TO THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH and ask what's different.

[acorn]

"Any representative of any championship can get on the 'phone and tell one of my journalists there will be 26 cars on a grid next year, but we have to take that information with a pinch of salt until we get solid proof that that is going to be the case. Otherwise we could end up looking a bit silly when it doesn’t happen."

and the same applies to motorfest as the scsa red card. did mn believe incarace etc when told there would be rallying and karting at motorfest and did they print it, of course they did so i guess mn is looking pretty silly now that they won't be there or will they say we acted in good faith?

[racing59]

And they believed Andy Rouse with SCV8...... look how that turned out! (which was a shame, as it would have been awesome if it had worked!)

I sent MN, and Autosport, press releases about Team Air Ambulance, what, and why we're doing it, and they printed nothing at all. Yet get some 750MC Stock Hatch tail-ender change his sparkplugs and it's top national motorsport news.

I will do another press release after the weekend, hopefully detailing how much we have raised over the year (even I don't know the levels or lack of ticket sales), but I bet they don't print it.

I even asked for the Autosport reporter to visit me in the pits last meeting, and nothing happened.

Rob.