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SEATFreak
24th December 2006, 14:13
I thought it would be good to begin a similar thread to the "BTCC 2007 - Rumours" thread but on the WTCC and including facts too.

I will begin.

Facts
Augusto Farfus to run with JAS.
Felix Porterio to run with Alex Zanardi at BMW Team Italy-Spain.
Flash Engineering to run a brace of Bioethanol BMW 320i's.

Rumours
Rickard Rydell to run with Prodive in the Aston Martin in the GT's
Michael Jourdain to run with SEAT after tests in Barcelona.
Polestar to run a brace of Bioethanol Volvo's.
RBM to run Richard Goransson (funding depending).
Tom Coronel to run with SEAT (it hasn't yet actually happened to thus far we need to treat it as rumour.)

If anyone else has any rumours or facts to add I will be glad to hear them. :up: :)

Captain VXR
24th December 2006, 14:25
Augusto Farfus to run with JAS.

Farfus has signed with Schnitzer
JAS will get Honda Europe support to a greater extent
Flash and Polestar are rumours although have been on WTCC website.
Maurer are moving to WTCC
Wiechers Sport have two BMW 320si
We could see some Swedish, British, Danish and German teams doing some WTCC rounds (spculation).
Rumours of Mazda/Prodrive works team.
Renault intend to enter the WTCC at some stage possibly with next Laguna. Probably not next year.
Duncan Huisman and Richard Goransson are chasing possible seat at RBM alongside Andy Priaulx.

LiamM
24th December 2006, 16:44
Muller and Tarquini HAVE contracts with SEAT for 2007

cybersdorf
24th December 2006, 22:51
No new Alfas, as Alfa Romeo is headed for Le Mans with the 8C instead. A pair of old 156 entered by N.Technology.

SEATFreak
25th December 2006, 11:37
Farfus has signed with Schnitzer.

Course!! It is Dirk Muller who has been linked with a seat at JAS.


Wiechers Sport have two BMW 320si.

What is the situation with the drivers? I last I managed to understand of the situation negotiations for the two drivers, with one car certain, is ongoing. So does it look like Emmet O'Brien and Diego Romanini are out?

Captain VXR
25th December 2006, 16:44
They are in discussion with several drivers.

SEATFreak
26th December 2006, 10:19
Is there talk of whom?

GN
26th December 2006, 10:49
Roberto Colciago is to run in a Seat Leon with Seat Italia.

Captain VXR
26th December 2006, 11:18
Is there talk of whom?

Not that I know of.

Captain VXR
26th December 2006, 11:20
Here's the Ovlov and Flash BMW article
http://www.fiawtcc.com/fiawtcc/sport_sto1030706.shtml

Captain VXR
26th December 2006, 11:21
Wiechers Article
http://www.crash.net/news_view~t~Wiechers-to-campaign-320si-in--07-~cid~88~id~141084.htm

GN
26th December 2006, 16:31
There was rumour of Pierre Yves-Corthals in a Leon as well .

SEATFreak
27th December 2006, 10:13
Roberto Colciago is to run in a Seat Leon with Seat Italia.

No change in the driver department. He ran with them this last season. Except it look like he is either selling or has sold his Toledo in order to switch to either the Leon run this last season by Davide Roda or to one bought from or supplied by SEAT.

But he is in negotiations with a second so it is either for a renewed contract with Roda or someone else (Pierre Yves-Corthals?).

That pretty much covers all possibles.

tyreman2
27th December 2006, 11:05
i understand that Corthals will race with a new team who will be running 2 cars 2nd driver unknown (yet!)

Captain VXR
27th December 2006, 11:27
Is it a French team? That was rumoured on another forum.

SEATFreak
27th December 2006, 14:11
I found the post on ten-tenths to be most facinating. Thanks.

I don't just mean more info on the 2007 entry of Maurer, but the fact this French team with considerable materials and personnel, who are in negtioations with a big manufacturer, by the looks of things could go for Vincent. Budget allowing if Vincent can contact a Belgian importer. Though I am puzzled as to what Belgian importer it is. Does anyone have any idea as to what Belgian importer Vincent gets his budge from?


Radermecker has three options for next season:

1. If everything goes like it is planned, the needed budget available and maybe bigger support from Chevrolet than WTCC with Maurer Motorsport.
2. He's negotiating with a French team which wants to move up to WTCC. I understand it's a professional team with the best material and people. Currently the team is negotiating with all three manufacturers. So I think he means BMW, SEAT and Chevrolet or Alfa. One driver with a big budget is already confirmed. For the second seat they are looking for an experienced driver with budget. If the manufacturer is chosen Radermecker will contact the Belgian importer and try to get the needed budget for the second seat.
3. For four years Belgian or French (?) engineer Luc Marchetti is trying to setup a touring car project. A few years ago this engineer prepared the Opel Astra of Radermecker in Belgian and French touring car championship. But if the needed budget (around 400,000€...700,00€ for one independent WTCC car) is not available this project will become nothing again.

LiamM
27th December 2006, 16:44
I think by importer they mean the national face of the manufacturer

For example BMW UK import BMWs to the UK to sell, and they provide sponsorship to Mr Priaulx. So they are an importer.

If they team went with BMWs Vincent would have to contact BMW Belgium

SEATFreak
28th December 2006, 10:20
Doh! Silly me!! ;) Shall I wake up? :laugh:

But here's confirmation of Felix Portiero's move to BMW Team Italy-Spain. It's also on the WTCC official website.

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=913

As he will be partnering Alex Zanardi is there any talk over whether Roberto Ravaglia will be retaining Duncan Husiman if his attempt at getting a seat at RBM falls through?

Radders
28th December 2006, 12:38
Would love to know what my boy is doing next year, the last I heard was that 10 tenths post - I rather hope he stays with Maurer with an updated car as I think he'll do some damage to the others guys and not in collisons!

If anyone hears of Vicent's penned plans for '07 let me know.

Iain
28th December 2006, 14:13
Found something (http://www.motorsportads.co.uk/race-cars/saloon-cars/7489.html) which I thought might be of interest to you Radders.

SEATFreak
28th December 2006, 14:38
It interests me Iain! :laugh:

I remember on the ten-tenths forum that Maurer intend to run in 2007 with the 2005 Lacetti's which Chevy helped with as they don't have the funds or something to do new builds.

May the ad mean they are trimming the cars run in 2007 down to one or do they have other 05' spec Lacettis?

Captain VXR
28th December 2006, 15:28
Found something (http://www.motorsportads.co.uk/race-cars/saloon-cars/7489.html) which I thought might be of interest to you Radders.

Hurry up Clyde Valley and get this so you don't have to buy 2 new builds :up:

Radders
28th December 2006, 15:48
That's that seat whipped from beneath his ass then....

Someone put him in a Leon please, send him out and we'll have our 2007 WTCC Champion. And that was the World Touring Car Championship 2007 bought to you by Radders Productions.

Iain
28th December 2006, 16:04
This experienced French team that's been mentioned - it's not Pescarolo is it? They've sold their Le Mans prototypes after all.

Captain VXR
28th December 2006, 16:05
Is it both for sale or just one?

smiley_opc
28th December 2006, 17:59
i think maurer will sell 1 and update 1..
i think they will continue with radermecker in the adac procar and maybe some wtcc races...
bastuck who raced the 2nd lecatti for maurer this season is going to race with opel (kissling) in the 2007 adac procar so maybe they didn't found a driver with budget for the 2nd lacette ??

bastuck's car for 2007
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8366/essen2006163co4.jpg

Iain
28th December 2006, 17:59
Nice car :D

Captain VXR
28th December 2006, 18:20
*Drooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ls*

smiley_opc
28th December 2006, 18:39
yep its a nice car !
it raced 1 weekend in the adac procar this season.. and won 1 of the 2 races !
the car was driven by stefan kissling
it would be nic te see it in the wtcc but i dont think its 100 % s2000

another pic from the front
http://www.motofoto.tv/galerie/albums/Motorshow_06/img_8262.jpg

Subaru WRX
28th December 2006, 18:51
lol is it seems the ex 888 Vauxhall Astra BTCC converted for S2000, as.......Opel :p

anyway great looking car, hope that it will compete in thye WTCC :cool:

smiley_opc
28th December 2006, 20:07
lol is it seems the ex 888 Vauxhall Astra BTCC converted for S2000, as.......Opel :p

anyway great looking car, hope that it will compete in thye WTCC :cool:
no no
the car is build by kissling motorsport
it first raced in the vln this season with 1 geust race in the adac procar.. it has won some races in his class (inculding 24h race !)
it would be nice if a team raced a astra from 888 in the procar and changed the grill :D

SEATFreak
29th December 2006, 09:36
One problem I have with the car as nice looking as the Kissling Motorsport Opel Astra Sport Hatch is. Why was 888's/VXR's Astra Sport Hatch, the identical model of car to the KM one but with a Vauxhall badge (???), discontinued?

Dave Clark
29th December 2006, 11:29
Because Opel is the European version of Vauxhall, like Holden is the Australian equivalent of the General Motors family. Its only the UK where Vauxhall is badged Vauxhall.

Captain VXR
29th December 2006, 13:24
One problem I have with the car as nice looking as the Kissling Motorsport Opel Astra Sport Hatch is. Why was 888's/VXR's Astra Sport Hatch, the identical model of car to the KM one but with a Vauxhall badge (???), discontinued?

Super 2000 rules

Iain
29th December 2006, 13:49
And the German series I believe runs to a lot of different rules. They even had the MG ZS from the BTCC running there in 2005. Basically if someone says they want to enter, I think the organisers will go out of their way to accomodate them.

Subaru WRX
29th December 2006, 19:43
Because Opel is the European version of Vauxhall
in reality its Vauxhall the British version of Opel :D

SEATFreak
30th December 2006, 10:33
Pardon my naievity but what I was trying to drive at by my post is if VXR's Astra Sport Hatch was discontinued because it didn't comply with the S2000 specification, why is Kissling Motorsport allowed to run it in the WTCC where there is no other spec than the S2000?

SEATFreak
30th December 2006, 10:35
This experienced French team that's been mentioned - it's not Pescarolo is it? They've sold their Le Mans prototypes after all.

Could the French team be ORECA?

They are known to be unlikely to continue supporting two of SEAT's cars.

Captain VXR
30th December 2006, 11:14
Pardon my naievity but what I was trying to drive at by my post is if VXR's Astra Sport Hatch was discontinued because it didn't comply with the S2000 specification, why is Kissling Motorsport allowed to run it in the WTCC where there is no other spec than the S2000?

I think Subaru WRX and Smiley OPC said 'I hope they run it in the WTCC 2007'.
They could use local homoglation (Think Phillip Geipel) or promise to get a 5-door Astra/get a Vectra (perhaps 888 one) later on eg. 2008 (Think JAS and Peugeot Norway)

Iain
30th December 2006, 12:14
Kissling aren't running in the WTCC. They're running in the German Procar series.

I wish people would read posts properly sometimes......

Captain VXR
30th December 2006, 12:36
That's what I meant but I made it very complicated :p

Subaru WRX
30th December 2006, 19:56
I think that german adac cars run in the german round of the wtcc, but i dont remeber seeing this opel in the 2 sprint races !

Iain
30th December 2006, 21:01
That's because it's not an S2000 car. :)

WSRfan82
30th December 2006, 22:04
does anyone know whats happening with rickard rydell.

PDS
30th December 2006, 22:15
You must have been sleeping during December!

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=884

SEATFreak
31st December 2006, 10:09
So as it stands judging from what it says on the 27 Oct article in touringcartimes.com about the number of SEAT's for 2007, only Tarquini and Muller are certain with the possibility Gene is to be retained. Thommo and Terting seem out and althouth it goes on to say Gene and Rydell are on the retained list if funds are available, as Rydell does not have the funds (not as much as Tom Coronel), it could transpire of the two only Gene may have enough to retain his seat at SEAT.

Captain VXR
31st December 2006, 11:23
Lots of people are expecting Tom Coronel to join SEAT Sport:
http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=851 at the bottom
BTW, http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=873 the Wiechers Sport 320si looks good

SEATFreak
31st December 2006, 12:24
I have a folder just of jpg's of WTCC team cars and I must say I can see the major difference between the 'i' and the 'si' models of BMW 320 and the si is by far the better.

Throwing a guess wildly, does the fact BMW's works teams of Schnitzer, BMW Team Germany and BMW Team Italy-Spain all use the si have anything to do with their success?

btw, which Group of car does the Wiechers BMW 320si belong, Group N or Group A?

Radders
31st December 2006, 12:36
Eh?! Don't sorry understand a word of that.

The si is supposed to be technically superior now to the E46 3 series - see Crash.net a few moths ago in an interview with Mario Thiessen, but the reason these teams are running the cars is that is now the product bought and sold by BMW, there's no reasons for them to promote and spend money on an old model.....

I may have missed the point on the Group N and A question, but it's a World Touring Car Championship car to S2000 spec as the WTCC is single formula series.

Rover V8
31st December 2006, 12:55
This experienced French team that's been mentioned - it's not Pescarolo is it? They've sold their Le Mans prototypes after all.

I'd be very surprised if Pescarolo are looking to take on the commitment of a WTCC efort on top of their LMP programme, and there's no evidence of them cutting back on that- in fact, the opposite- their existing LMP chassis are no longer eligible for the LMS and Le Mans, so they're building new cars for 2007.

They'll also be supplying customer chassis- these might be the cars reported as being sold (2, maybe 3 so far from what I've read)

tin-top fan
31st December 2006, 13:39
Throwing a guess wildly, does the fact BMW's works teams of Schnitzer, BMW Team Germany and BMW Team Italy-Spain

You'll find that Schnitzer is actually BMW Team Germany. RBM is BMW team UK and Ravaglia (sp?) is BMW Team Italy Spain. As has been said above, the only reason that the Si car was used is that it is the model currently being sold by BMW. You'll only see the old car in the hands of independants who don't have the means of upgrading (either in terms of funds or that BMW haven't got any more to sell)

SEATFreak
31st December 2006, 16:04
I may have missed the point on the Group N and A question, but it's a World Touring Car Championship car to S2000 spec as the WTCC is single formula series.

I bypassed the first sentence as I see no point whatsoever to it.

I cannot explain where you may find so you have to trust me.

In Article 251: Classification & Definition which is a PDF document that can be saved by Adobe Acrobat Reader, under "2.1.8) Homologation forms:" much of what I mean is found there. The two that seem to be relevant to touring cars is Group N (Production) and Group A (Touring). I do know Group N cars cannot be developed as much as Group A cars though.

I would really like to know the difference between the two groups. :up:

Alfa Fan
31st December 2006, 17:33
Its Group A, as all serious entries to the WTCC are. There's only ever been a couple of Group N entries (Production class cars)

Iain
31st December 2006, 18:41
I would really like to know the difference between the two groups. :up:

You just answered it yourself. Gp N can't be developed or modified as much as a Gp A car can be. Gp N is much closer to a standard road car.

SEATFreak
31st December 2006, 20:43
I do conceed I didn't explain myself and should have. Appologies.

Basically what I was trying desperarely to explain was if Touring and Production Class was given on the basis as to whether it is a factory car or an Independent car.

Whether Chevrolet's Lacetti's for example is a Touring Class Car (Therefore Group A), whereas Maurer's Lacettis are Production Class cars (Therefore Group N).

I dearly hope any confusion and arguments are settled.

Alfa Fan
31st December 2006, 20:44
Maurer's Lacetti's are Super 2000 :confused:

Iain
31st December 2006, 20:53
I do conceed I didn't explain myself and should have. Appologies.

Basically what I was trying desperarely to explain was if Touring and Production Class was given on the basis as to whether it is a factory car or an Independent car.

Whether Chevrolet's Lacetti's for example is a Touring Class Car (Therefore Group A), whereas Maurer's Lacettis are Production Class cars (Therefore Group N).

I dearly hope any confusion and arguments are settled.

Whoever runs the cars, they'll always be S2000. Independent simply means they have no direct manufacturer funding or it's very limited.

Subaru WRX
31st December 2006, 21:09
Maurer's Lacetti's are Super 2000 :confused:
true, they are under s2000, as they done the Valencia event this year, with a spanish....female driver :D

SEATFreak
1st January 2007, 10:08
Do you good guys know something I don't about the meaning of the terms Touring and Production Class in the context of the WTCC? I mentioned nothing about S2000. Yet you did for some reason.

From 2001 till the end of 2003 most, not all, of the cars running in the Touring Class in the BTCC were factory cars like MG, Honda and of course Vauxhall and most of the cars running in the Production Class in the BTCC were the smaller Independent teams.

But I am still thinking under that context. Unless they have come to mean something entirely different in the WTCC. Am I right?

Subaru WRX
1st January 2007, 11:26
all WTCC must be under the S2000 regulation, there are no classes there, the only differences you will see, is there are factory teams (BMW Germany, BMW UK, Seat Sport, RML Chevy....) and other independent (JAS Honda...) competing for the Yokohama Advan Trophy, but all of them are under the same rules, so sometimes independent cars can beat works one.

I think its all clear now

SEATFreak
1st January 2007, 14:21
Thanks. You have made everything complete for me now. As Alfa Fan said in post number 53, most works and Independents are Group A/Touring Class cars. Thanks. Appologies to everyone who was trying to say what Subaru WRX said but were not understood.

We discussed Weichers buying brand new 320si's. As it happens Weichers, like all teams in the WTCC, is a Group A team so they can extensively modify the cars, but the reason why I took the subject on a tangent is because if their BMW's were Group N class cars would they have bought them if they knew the rules stated being Group N they weren't able to modify them?

tin-top fan
1st January 2007, 16:01
In the WTCC you have to run a Super 2000 spec car to enter. This is irrelevant wheter you are a works team or an independant. If a super production car was purchased, then they wouldn't be able to enter WTCC and would have to enter britcar or something instead.

Alfa Fan
1st January 2007, 17:26
I don't think thats true. I think there is a provision for Super Production cars to be entered. (None have been for a long time though)

LiamM
1st January 2007, 18:47
I think Super Production can enter the WTCC, but theres no point, they'll just tootle round at the back way off the pace.

SF you have got it all round your neck, best way to resolve this is forget all about Group N cars, all top-flight touring cars are Group A

Subaru WRX
1st January 2007, 19:02
to make an end to all this :
if you want to compete in WTCC, you have to be within the S2000 rules ! it is not Le Mans to speak about classes and groups ! FIA made it simple and clear, only the ADAC Procar has classes

PDS
1st January 2007, 19:08
I don't think thats true. I think there is a provision for Super Production cars to be entered. (None have been for a long time though)


That's right! But I can understand SeatFreak getting confused if you try to read the regulations for entering the WTCC... If you read the Regs they list Touring cars as Group A, Production cars as Group N and Super Production cars! It doesn't say what group they are!

SeatFreak, you have to remember they have been devised by the FIA.

The same FIA that have introduced this new longer break between races! Why! http://www.fiawtcc.com/fiawtcc/sport_sto1043925.shtml

It does not help the WTCC cars! They still only have 15 mins to carry out any repairs to the cars between races while they sit around for 3 hours!
How frustrating will that be for the teams who need to get their cars fixed for the second race!

PDS
1st January 2007, 19:11
to make an end to all this :
if you want to compete in WTCC, you have to be within the S2000 rules ! it is not Le Mans to speak about classes and groups ! FIA made it simple and clear, only the ADAC Procar has classes

If you read the WTCC regulations, http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/625423190__AppJ_Art_263.pdf Article 2, you are wrong!

WSRfan82
2nd January 2007, 03:28
pds ive been hard at work in so ive lost track of the news in december but thanks for the link so i can catch up cheers

SEATFreak
3rd January 2007, 12:18
What gets me about how unclear the regs are is the part where it says:


Evolutions of the type (ET), Kit variants (VK) and sporting evolutions (ES) Homologted in Group A are not valid in Production Cars (Group N) or Super Production.

Nevertheless evolutions of the type and sporting evolutions homologated in Group A as from 01.01.97 are valid in Group N

Does this mean evolutions of the type and sporting evolutions are after all valid in Group N?

Alfa Fan
3rd January 2007, 12:38
SEATFreak, I'd advise you to stay well clear of the FIA WTCC regulations unless you have a good understanding of all the vocabulary and terms within it.

Its not going to help you at all by getting tangled up with the detailed regulations.

Its as simple as this. The WTCC runs to Super 2000 regulations, and only Super 2000 specification cars are ever entered.

racer69
3rd January 2007, 16:16
Where is all this Group A talk coming from?

Group A hasn't been a recognised formula for touring cars by the FIA since 1988.