Hippies everywhere! :eek:

[Woodeye]

I already complained about this in WRC -forum, but decided to complain about it in here too.

I surrounded by hippies. Two of the nearby streets have been "reclaimed" by some activists. I don't get the message they want to say, basically I think they are against capitalism (sigh) and demand anarchism (sigh, sigh). Rediculous, I say.

When they were blocking the streets some guy went berserk in his Volvo and ran over two hippies. They were somewhat unharmed afterwards anyway. But IMO they're the only one to blame, they were bloking the way and started to mug the car.

Anyway, what do you think about these kind of "reclaimings".

[Woodeye]

Oh, great. Now there's eek in the headline. It was supposed to be :eek: ...

[A.F.F.]

http://www.hs.fi/kaupunki/artikkeli/Kadunvaltaus+meneill%C3%A4%C3%A4n+T%C3%B6%C3%B6l%C 3%B6ss%C3%A4/1135229611654


****ing hippies.

[RaikkonenRules]

To be honest I'd rather have hippied than chavs any day.

[Erki]

I don't like activists much, but anarchism is cool! http://board.violetprison.com/images/smilies/banana.gif :p

[Ian McC]

Make em get their hair cut! :mad: :D

[KILOHMUNNS]

Heres a noval idea, if they are against capitalism then they shouldn't be able to buy anything ever again!!! and should only be allowed to travel by foot as anything else would be against there beliefs!! :D

[Drew]

You're lucky, I had to live with a hippy at uni for 1 year and she always brought her hippy friends round. Some were quite nice, but a pain in the ass.

I'm not sure they have quite mastered how to work the shower, though...

[ChrisS]

You're lucky, I had to live with a hippy at uni for 1 year

college know-it-all hippies, these are the worst kind of hippies

Woodeye what ever you do, don't let them form a drum circle, drum circles can easily evolve into full-blown hippie jam festivals and then you are in big trouble

[Woodeye]

The take over ended yesterday evening around 9. Reportedly the minimarket close to place where the hippies were, ran out of beer.

It's a bit strange that the hippies can drink alcohol made by capitalists. Shouldn't they drink something distilled in home or smoke something that's imported in butt?

I really don't see the point of the whole event. They were claiming that car's take over the streets. Well, I wonder why the streets have been build in a first place? And secondly, there is huge park next to this street. Why didn't they go there?

[Erki]

Sounds like a bunch of pinos. :p

[Daniel]

Where's Janeppi in his tank when you need him? :p

[janneppi]

Drinking punch in a friends 30 year birthday party. :p :

[Dave B]

If someone is against capitalism then fair enough. But they shouldn't be allowed to claim any benefits paid for by taxpayers who disagree with them, nor buy anything from retailers or manufacturers who they object to.

[Drew]

The take over ended yesterday evening around 9. Reportedly the minimarket close to place where the hippies were, ran out of beer.


Seems fair enough, I can only think of one reason to stay at a party when the beer's run out :p :

[BeansBeansBeans]

If someone is against capitalism then fair enough. But they shouldn't be allowed to claim any benefits paid for by taxpayers who disagree with them.

This statement makes my head spin.

Could you please explain why anti-capitalists should not be allowed to claim benefits? My Grandad was a socialist; worked hard all his life, and paid his taxes. Should he have not been allowed to claim his pension? Not all anti-capitalists fit your cute middle-England image of dreadlocked hippies living in treehouses.

[LotusElise]

As we live in a capitalist society, we don't really have much choice as to whether we take part in it or not. I class myself as a socialist and a critic of market-obsessed capitalism, yet I have not other real means of acquiring goods and services I require other than through "the system".

It isn't black and white; you don't have to agree with every little facet of the capitalist ideal at all and most people, if they think about it, can come up with things about it they find distasteful. Who gets to decide how much you need to toe the line before it's okay for them to buy stuff they need or claim benefits? That argument does not make sense.

[A.F.F.]

If you look at the picture from the scene...

well, if any of those guys are true hippies then I'm a goddamn Mickey Mouse.

God for bid cell phones and text messages :mad:

[Canada Cornrow]

As we live in a capitalist society, we don't really have much choice as to whether we take part in it or not. I class myself as a socialist and a critic of market-obsessed capitalism, yet I have not other real means of acquiring goods and services I require other than through "the system".

God Damn that's got to be rough.

[Rudy Tamasz]

You guys just don't get it. There's something refreshing about hippies even if you disagree with them. Yesterday I was weraing my ripped jeans and listening to Greatful Dead! :p

[raikk]

I'm sure some of the ''older'' people in this forum were hippies once upon a time... heck I think Oily is still a hippy :p :

[LotusElise]

God Damn that's got to be rough.

What's that supposed to mean?

[Flat.tyres]

As we live in a capitalist society, we don't really have much choice as to whether we take part in it or not. I class myself as a socialist and a critic of market-obsessed capitalism, yet I have not other real means of acquiring goods and services I require other than through "the system".

It isn't black and white; you don't have to agree with every little facet of the capitalist ideal at all and most people, if they think about it, can come up with things about it they find distasteful. Who gets to decide how much you need to toe the line before it's okay for them to buy stuff they need or claim benefits? That argument does not make sense.

politically and commercially I guess I'm pretty much the opposite.

I like a capitalist society and love my car, computer, clothes and things that I can buy with my hard earned dosh. I certainly dont see why I should give it all up so someone that hasn't earned it can have the same as I have.

saying that, I do think we need your avergae, home grown socialist to balance the equation. I have no problem with people that work and are socialists. what I object to is people that dont work, dont want to work and still expect to get money from me to support them. if that was my kids, I wouldnt give them a penny until they proved that they were trying so why should I give it to a total stranger?

[LotusElise]

Socialism, for me and others, is nothing to do with refusing to work and expecting others to fund our lifestyles. It is all to do with fairness, protecting people from exploitation and providing a decent standard of living to all.

For true socialism to work, it does require that all people play a part, contrary to what is often thought today. Most socialists, however, would expand the definition of work to include caring for children or other dependents, or working in some form of education to improve oneself.

Despite what careers officers, the already-successful, and annoying motivational speakers make out, getting where you want to be and doing what you really want to in life is almost out of reach for those without money and influence to start with. It is not just a matter of "hard work", there are too many other random factors in play. Socialism attempts to remove the random factors and generally make things fairer. It also sets out (through things like workers' rights and the minimum wage) to make life easier for those in less desirable occupations - which are often vital.
I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I wanted to put my view across.

[Rudy Tamasz]

For true socialism to work, it does require that all people play a part, contrary to what is often thought today. Most socialists, however, would expand the definition of work to include caring for children or other dependents, or working in some form of education to improve oneself.

True socialism is like true religion. People believe it exists somewhere in time and space yet nobody has ever seen it. Yet adepts always refer to it when they see nasty things going on in "socialist" countries.


Despite what careers officers, the already-successful, and annoying motivational speakers make out, getting where you want to be and doing what you really want to in life is almost out of reach for those without money and influence to start with. It is not just a matter of "hard work", there are too many other random factors in play. Socialism attempts to remove the random factors and generally make things fairer. It also sets out (through things like workers' rights and the minimum wage) to make life easier for those in less desirable occupations - which are often vital.
I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I wanted to put my view across.

Instead of money your chances in life will depend on your loyalty to the socilalist ideology and your status. Apparatchiks always enjoy preferences.

That said, I don't mind socialist types (hippies etc.) at all. I have my red Rage Against the Machine T-shirt, San-Fran acid rock CDs and enjoy the company of my hippie friends. Every system has to have its critics to function well and improve itself, especially if these critics are creative, intelligent and thought-provoking people.

[Flat.tyres]

Socialism, for me and others, is nothing to do with refusing to work and expecting others to fund our lifestyles. It is all to do with fairness, protecting people from exploitation and providing a decent standard of living to all.

wonderful ideals that I also subscribe to. problem is, what about the people that dont want to contribute to that type of society? should they still be entitled to the same standard of living as someone that works 40 hours a week for £6 per hour? we all know of people on benefit that claim they will be worse off if they worked. this is what is fundementally wrong with the current welfare system which is in effect a socialist foundation.

I think we should have a system that promotes inclusion into work as a principle to encourage people to participate. currently, for every 4 people in a job, there is someone out of one. thats 20% of the working population unemployed.


For true socialism to work, it does require that all people play a part, contrary to what is often thought today. Most socialists, however, would expand the definition of work to include caring for children or other dependents, or working in some form of education to improve oneself.

agreed


Despite what careers officers, the already-successful, and annoying motivational speakers make out, getting where you want to be and doing what you really want to in life is almost out of reach for those without money and influence to start with. It is not just a matter of "hard work", there are too many other random factors in play. Socialism attempts to remove the random factors and generally make things fairer. It also sets out (through things like workers' rights and the minimum wage) to make life easier for those in less desirable occupations - which are often vital.
I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I wanted to put my view across.

dont agree with this.

its true that money helps but in our society, its a lot more about what you put in yourself.

I went to a state school, put myself through college and Uni and am pretty successful all without receiving a penny in benefit or aid from any parent so it is both possible and practical. true, I worked my ar*e off and had debt that I repaid in a few years but that was my choice to get a good career and good standard of living.

so, why should I help people that dont want to work and cant be bothered? people that need help to find a job I will help gladly. similarly, if someone is truely incapacitated, I think they need more help to find a suitable job where they can have inclusion in society.

I think that capatilists like me are pretty socialist in their outlook. we appreciate the need for a fair, supportive welfare system that helps people to be included in society.

[LotusElise]

Money is not the only "random factor" I alluded to. There are lots of them - geographic location, being in the right place at the right time, knowing the right people... You can probably name a few more.
I appear to have had a similar educational background to you, but, to be frank, I have struggled to find and hold down a decent and satisfying job, due to all sorts of things that I'm not really in control of. The job market where I live is based around one or two industries that I don't really want to work in, and I have lacked the capital to move away. I have also found that society and employers in particular are getting more and more judgemental about people's personalities, and anyone who doesn't fit in to the loathsome "bubbly and outgoing" stereotype can struggle to fit in. I am naturally inclined to be more reserved, although I always aim for politeness and professionalism, but this has proved to be a bit of a problem in some interviews, if the feedback I received is to be taken seriously. I have been told by older people that polite and professional used to be an asset years ago, but obviously not so much in some places. I have tried modifying my behaviour, but to be honest it normally makes it worse!
After considerable sacrifices, such as moving back in with my parents, I am going back to university next month to embark on a career change - back into archaeology, which I originally trained to do. Without the help of my parents, this would have been impossible, even with all the "hard work" in the world. If there was more support for those wanting to continue their studies, as a truly socialist society would offer, I would have been able to complete my education much sooner and become a much more productive member of society as a result.
It isn't just down to indiviual will, because that assumes equality of opportunity which doesn't exist yet.

[LotusElise]

what about the people that dont want to contribute to that type of society? should they still be entitled to the same standard of living as someone that works 40 hours a week for £6 per hour? we all know of people on benefit that claim they will be worse off if they worked. this is what is fundementally wrong with the current welfare system which is in effect a socialist foundation.

I think we should have a system that promotes inclusion into work as a principle to encourage people to participate.



That is something I actually agree with. Benefits should be restructured to provide more support for those in low-paid and part-time work. This, coupled with proper enforcement of the minimum wage and stringent application of existing employment laws to prevent workplace exploitation, would encourage more people to work, if appropriate. Full-time carers, whether of children or dependent adults, should be exempt. They are doing a valuable job and deserve to be paid for it.

[Daniel]

I have also found that society and employers in particular are getting more and more judgemental about people's personalities, and anyone who doesn't fit in to the loathsome "bubbly and outgoing" stereotype can struggle to fit in. I am naturally inclined to be more reserved, although I always aim for politeness and professionalism, but this has proved to be a bit of a problem in some interviews, if the feedback I received is to be taken seriously. I have been told by older people that polite and professional used to be an asset years ago, but obviously not so much in some places. I have tried modifying my behaviour, but to be honest it normally makes it worse!

I'm (surprisingly for most people on this forum) quite reserved too and have found quite a lot of people tend to react negatively at work when they first meet me because I'm not stupidly outgoing and people think I'm being rude when I respond to them in 5 words rather than with 300 + a summary of my weekend out on the drink but once people get to know me and that I'm not being rude or anything, tis just the way I am. I don't care what anyone says. I'll do the old polite and professional over "effervessent and bubbly" any day of the week :)

[SOD]

What's that supposed to mean?

Don't worry about him, he's too busy looking over his shoulder to notice that the US federal reserve used Socialism to bailout the US stock market last Thursday & Friday.

In America, the state with the least percentage of mortgage defaults is virginia. Federal employees, defence contractors & evangelists aren't short of cash these days. The first two groups depend on American socialism to survive, and they aint doing too badly.

[Sleeper]

Personnally I believe that true capilaism and true Marxism isnt really possible, human nature means that there will always be a few that do their best to exploit these idealogies to get the best for themsleves. From the little I know it sounds like a mix of Marxism and capitalism is were the chances for the best sociaty are.

[jim mcglinchey]

[.




so, why should I help people that dont want to work and cant be bothered? people that need help to find a job I will help gladly. similarly, if someone is truely incapacitated, I think they need more help to find a suitable job where they can have inclusion in society.

You keep confusing the long-term unemployed and unemployable class with Socialists when Socialism is all about the rights of the working class, people who are prepared to get out in the morning and go and do a days work. Its very important to make that distinction

[CCFanatic]

college know-it-all hippies, these are the worst kind of hippies

Woodeye what ever you do, don't let them form a drum circle, drum circles can easily evolve into full-blown hippie jam festivals and then you are in big trouble


Then they pass the bongs and booz. Then there are drunk hippies, that tear up the neigborhood.

[Canada Cornrow]

Don't worry about him, he's too busy looking over his shoulder to notice that the US federal reserve used Socialism to bailout the US stock market last Thursday & Friday.

That's not true socialism. People seem to interchange liberalism and socialism a lot these days. When I was younger I fell for a lot of Marxist crap, briefly, but I could never make the leap. It seemed more like a religion to me. Here's a more eloquent summation of why true socialism will never work:

http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2007/07/why-i-am-not-a-.html

I find if funny that some people want to put you into a nice little American rightwing Republican box just because you believe socialism to be tripe.

[TOgoFASTER]

LOL
Everyone knows a Federal funded broad brush corporate bailout is just good business...
Keeps the crooks from going to Club Fed, thus saving Joe taxpayer the burden of it all.
Of course plain old Joe taxpayer that works for a living fell for their scam now sits in his new digs down by the river.
Indeed they should keep their misery to themselves. :rolleyes:
Where are those debtor prisons anyway?

[TOgoFASTER]

Then they pass the bongs and booz. Then there are drunk hippies, that tear up the neigborhood.

And that makes them different from say... preppies?

LOL

[LotusElise]

That's not true socialism. People seem to interchange liberalism and socialism a lot these days. When I was younger I fell for a lot of Marxist crap, briefly, but I could never make the leap. It seemed more like a religion to me. Here's a more eloquent summation of why true socialism will never work:

http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2007/07/why-i-am-not-a-.html


That is someone's opinion. You are also confusing socialism with historical Marxism. They are not the same.

[Flat.tyres]

You keep confusing the long-term unemployed and unemployable class with Socialists when Socialism is all about the rights of the working class, people who are prepared to get out in the morning and go and do a days work. Its very important to make that distinction

no confusion here Jim.

the welfare system is a socialist principal and one the if applied and opperated correctly, is a great benefit to society.

I appreciate that equal rights for the working class are the bedrock of Socialism but you must also conceed that welfare for those less able is a strong principal.

this is an alien concept to the Capatalist system where you provide for yourself. private healthcare, private pensions, unemployment insurance etc.

perhaps all Im trying to say is that a welfare system, run along stricter socialist principles, may be more beneficial than the debarcle we have today.

[SOD]

Where are those debtor prisons anyway?


The Corrections Corporation of America
"Privatization at its finest"

http://www.correctionscorp.com/



Buy stock in this guys to hedge yourself against being ratted to the NSA-Stasi and sent to the CCA for whatever reason the feds think you should be there for, downloading pr0nography, etc..

[Azumanga Davo]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40248000/jpg/_40248987_neil2bbcok.jpg
Hey, guys, this topic is rather heavy, man...

[Flat.tyres]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40248000/jpg/_40248987_neil2bbcok.jpg
Hey, guys, this topic is rather heavy, man...

and Ive got a hole in my shoe in the summer we're haveing. Bummer!

[SOD]

That's not true socialism. People seem to interchange liberalism and socialism a lot these days. When I was younger I fell for a lot of Marxist crap, briefly, but I could never make the leap. It seemed more like a religion to me. Here's a more eloquent summation of why true socialism will never work:

http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2007/07/why-i-am-not-a-.html

I find if funny that some people want to put you into a nice little American rightwing Republican box just because you believe socialism to be tripe.

Do you even think about you're writing?

You'll be sorry that I clicked the link to the list of jibberish from the local Freedumb Institute

"3. I no longer want to get rid of markets as to do so would produce economic stagnation and political tyranny. I want to regulate, humanize, counter-balance and embed markets, and keep them out of some tracts of human endeavour. I think Dan Bell was right to worry about the 'cultural contradictions of capitalism'. I want a social market. But as for 'a society beyond markets' or 'a socialized economy', no thanks."

Economic stagnation & political tyranny. The so-called free markets we have have really kept those two things at bay :rolleyes:


"I want to regulate, humanize, counter-balance and embed markets, and keep them out of some tracts of human endeavour"

Lets demonise the workers, the guys who actually build up an industrial & economic might should be punished and the guys who play at the casino (market) should be lauded. That's what this guy is proposing. Myabe he lost a packet at Vegas and nearly scored the girls giving out the free booze, but he's embarassed that he lost a packet in vegas and wants protection against his losses. That's what he really wants.

"I want a social market. But as for 'a society beyond markets' or 'a socialized economy', no thanks"

I guess that guy is OK with people dying in Hurricane Katrina & having Interstate brigdes over the mississipi collapes. He's OK with increasing energy & water bills. That's what free markets bring and you're welcome to them.

[jso1985]

but hippies ain't "true" socialists as some of you are explaining on how true socialism is...

hippies are just morons who think it makes them cooler to be a lazyass and pretend they're "changing the world"... by getting wasted all the time... f***ing morons I think they are, even worse with know-it-all uni hippie morons or with French or German hippies who come here and think they know everything about Bolivian politics when they know f***ing nothing! :mad:

rant end

[Erki]

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude! :s mokin: :monkeedan



:p

[BeansBeansBeans]

but hippies ain't "true" socialists as some of you are explaining on how true socialism is...

I only brought up socialism to counter the argument that 'anti-capitalists' should not be entitled to benefits. I just wanted to point out that not all anti-capitalists are workshy hippies hanging out in treehouses.

[Canada Cornrow]

Do you even think about you're writing?

You'll be sorry that I clicked the link to the list of jibberish from the local Freedumb Institute

"3. I no longer want to get rid of markets as to do so would produce economic stagnation and political tyranny. I want to regulate, humanize, counter-balance and embed markets, and keep them out of some tracts of human endeavour. I think Dan Bell was right to worry about the 'cultural contradictions of capitalism'. I want a social market. But as for 'a society beyond markets' or 'a socialized economy', no thanks."

Economic stagnation & political tyranny. The so-called free markets we have have really kept those two things at bay :rolleyes:


"I want to regulate, humanize, counter-balance and embed markets, and keep them out of some tracts of human endeavour"

Lets demonise the workers, the guys who actually build up an industrial & economic might should be punished and the guys who play at the casino (market) should be lauded. That's what this guy is proposing. Myabe he lost a packet at Vegas and nearly scored the girls giving out the free booze, but he's embarassed that he lost a packet in vegas and wants protection against his losses. That's what he really wants.

"I want a social market. But as for 'a society beyond markets' or 'a socialized economy', no thanks"

I guess that guy is OK with people dying in Hurricane Katrina & having Interstate brigdes over the mississipi collapes. He's OK with increasing energy & water bills. That's what free markets bring and you're welcome to them.

Do you even think about what you're writing? You read too many comic books. Do you really profess to know what this man thinks? I'm not going to comment to you anymore on this thread. It's been hijacked enough and for that I'm sorry. Maybe you could start a new thread explaining to one and all your social and economic beliefs and why they would be so great. It would beat the hell out your endless envy, projection and strawman arguments. Complaining is the easiest damn thing in the world to do and you've got it mastered.