I cant stand the CAR OF tomorrow.....

[MAX_THRUST]

I know you have all had your say in the past about this, but I really can't stand the cars of tomorrow. They looked ok at the Glen, but to be honest they are not NASCARs they look like a support series. I wish NASCAR would drop the idea, and stick with what looks good. Times change and so do the cars I know, but damn they are so F'ugly.......The IRL cars arent exactly pretty and now NASCAR seems to want to do the same.

[RaceFanStan]

I have said all along I like the looks of the COT & the added safety is bonus ! :D
I like the front spoiler down next to the track & I LOVE that big rear wing ! :D :up:

Write me down as a supporter FOR the COT. :D

[wedge]

It all about aero these days. The saying goes is that if it looks ugly then it must have bad aero. The only way you'll get bigger holes in the air is to create drag and therefore butt ugly race cars.

Anyway, I love the COT. As Rusty said recently the COT don't handle well but the racing is damn good! Plus they resemble more like cars that we would buy on the street - it is stock car racing after all!

The true test however are the 1.5mile tracks and plate tracks.

[Lee Roy]

Write me down as a supporter FOR the COT. :D

Me too.

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

I dont give a crap what the cars look like as long as the racings good.

im waiting to see what the 1.5mile tracks and plate track races go like. the jury is still out but we wont know till the team get more time to work out how to get it to handle.

[champcarjon]

I quite liked the look of the CoT when I first saw it .. but the more I see it race the less I like it. I am really going to miss the car of today

[blakebeatty]

I have said all along I like the looks of the COT & the added safety is bonus ! :D
I like the front spoiler down next to the track & I LOVE that big rear wing ! :D :up:

Write me down as a supporter FOR the COT. :D

Me too! In person they look cool. Lots of carbon fibre.

[jeffconn]

I quite liked the look of the CoT when I first saw it .. but the more I see it race the less I like it. I am really going to miss the car of today

Watch the Busch series. They are keeping the car of yesterday. :D

[Sparky1329]

The cars are definitely fugly but they seem to race pretty well. The first plate race they're used in should be interesting.

[call_me_andrew]

There are some things about the COT I like and some things I hate. I like the saftey, I like the splitter, I like the wing, but that's it. The manufacturers are out of everything now. All they do is write checks. Manufacturers used to get into racing to develope technology for future cars. Now they're more like sponsors than anything else. It's supposed to draft better at plate tracks because it's two inches taller than the previous spec, but it's still 4 inches shorter than the shortest production car represented. And that extra height makes it so top heavy that can't corner.

I think it should be 3-4 inches taller, and about 300lbs lighter. Then we bring out silhouette bodies, CURRENT production engine blocks, and fuel injection. But that's a story for another day.

[dwboogityfan]

At first I hated the COT. It looked ugly compared to the current (old) car and seemed to give Hendrick an even bigger advantage.
But now I am a fan. We have seen some very good races with the COT - notably at the Glen, Phoenix and Bristol - and the car is clearer safer. I also like the fact that a number of smaller teams seem to be running well with the COT. Teams like Robby Gordon, Haas and Bill Davis have had some good runs with the COT and my biggest fear was that the best teams would get better and the small teams more adrift. This hasn't happened.
The big test for the COT will be Talladega. I am a little worried that with the car not handling as well as the current car that we could see a wreckfest.

[champcarjon]

Watch the Busch series. They are keeping the car of yesterday. :D

Yeah Busch, ARCA Hooters Pro cup etc .. easier on the eyes

[muggle not]

Love it - Hate it - Don't give a chit

We had all better get used to it as it is here to stay.. :)

[dont_be_jack]

Good riddance to those who hate the new car. If you don't like the changes, oh well, it's been done and will continue to be implemented. I like the CoT and I think that it will make the racing much better, especially when we get to the larger tracks.

[champcarjon]

Good riddance to those who hate the new car. If you don't like the changes, oh well, it's been done and will continue to be implemented. I like the CoT and I think that it will make the racing much better, especially when we get to the larger tracks.

Well the CoT is safer .. so amen to that.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I am a slow convert to the cause. I never saw or bought into half the rationale for making the change, but it appears that in time, this car may do what NASCAR said it would do. That said, I thought they never would be in this quandary if they forced car makers to use the stock body in more places. One only has to look at the footages of races from the 80's to understand that somewhere between then and now, the "stock" car became something as unique and aero sensitive as an f1 car....

[harvick#1]

I like the car, but can the announcers please stop saying the same things about the car everytime it races.

for golly jeez, we all know there is a Carbon Fiber front splitter that is extremly tough and the Rear Spoiler doesn't come off the rear decklid.

why, cause the stupid announcers don't realize how strong Carbon Fiber actually is

[Mark in Oshawa]

Harvick they say it because NASCAR wants them to say it. You ever notice the fawning attention given to most of the decisions made? The fawning never stops, even during the race. It is RARE that someone calls out NASCAR for something during a broadcast, and if they do, it is in such a way that they can at least say it wasn't done with Malice and it had validity.

NASCAR has their talking points on things to emphasize, and the carbon fibre bits is obviously one of them. Gotta show how HI TECH we are getting ya know...

[JPMfan]

I'm sure it will sort itself out in the future, but let's be honest here, the races they ran with the COT this year weren't the most exciting ones,with the exception of Sonoma.

Just look at Dover this year.
You just cannot call it a step forward, when your premier series that runs at the track is actually the slowest of them all.
Even the Craftmans trucks were faster there.
Not a good thing, IMHO.

[Mark in Oshawa]

JPMfan, were you snoozing while watching the Glen? oh right, JPM didn't win that one so it doesn't count? I think some of the COT races have been more or less the same as any other NASCAR events...

[JPMfan]

JPMfan, were you snoozing while watching the Glen? oh right, JPM didn't win that one so it doesn't count? I think some of the COT races have been more or less the same as any other NASCAR events...

Haha, got me there. You're not exactly right though, I was watching Champcar at RA with Nascar running in the background on my pc.
So I watched it with a half eye and wasn't sure anymore if it was the COT or not.
Nascar on road-courses is always nice whether it's COT or not.

Considering the oval races with the COT, check my dover comment.
Would you still like F1, when on the same weekend the fastest series that runs on the circuit is GP2???

[Mark in Oshawa]

Haha, got me there. You're not exactly right though, I was watching Champcar at RA with Nascar running in the background on my pc.
So I watched it with a half eye and wasn't sure anymore if it was the COT or not.
Nascar on road-courses is always nice whether it's COT or not.

Considering the oval races with the COT, check my dover comment.
Would you still like F1, when on the same weekend the fastest series that runs on the circuit is GP2???


Well first off, I don't watch GP2. Maybe I should, but I only have so much time to watch racing, and watching a bunch of guys on the way up with names I never heard of is fed by my watching Atlantics and Star Mazda.

But to your criticism. You obviously feel the Busch guys being faster in the old style car vs the COT's makes the whole thing a sham. I disagree and here is why (god, I guess I have done it, Iam defending the COT now!!):

IF A Busch car laps a track in 29 seconds, and the COT turns a 30 second lap, can you tell if they are not on the track at the same time? NO, of course not, not without a watch. If you say you can, you are lying because as a timing and scoring guy, I cant really tell unless the slower car is RADICALLY slower. So if you cant tell how much slower the COT car is ( and it aint gonna be much because they still have the power under the hoods), then why should it be an issue? Furthermore, if the COT provides closer racing on tracks where it hasn't been great in the past (Charlotte, Texas, Kansas, Chicagoland, Fontana) in every race, then the relative speed compared to a Busch car is moot. Furthermore, Busch cars may end up being faster, but I suspect as time goes on they will be slowed down because of your point. Don't think for a second NASCAR is sleeping and not picking up on your comment or others like it. I suspect a "Busch" (or whomever takes over for them) COT is not long in calling.

No, COT is something we are stuck with. I didn't like the car aestheically originally, and I didn't really see the point in dumping the old car, I thought there were tweaks to be made in the aero to help the competitive balance, but NASCAR has admittely pulled this off pretty well really. I still think the car can be funny looking, but it has grown on me. I dislike there is no real difference in body from manufacturer a to manufacturer b, but that has been true for a while anyhow. I like the fact it isn't offset. I like the fact it will be the same car in appearence from Daytona to Martinsville. In short, I am a convert to the cause.....even though I didn't want to be.

I think your point is made that the car shouldn't be slower than the Busch car, but the quality of the racing is up. Hey, IRL cars lap Indy at 220mph and NASCAR at 181,but is either show less than the other? No, of course not. Speed matters little in the quality of the racing. You can enjoy a race of showroom stock cars or formula vee's ( I still laugh at the memory of Formula Vee's racing at Mosport's ovals a few years back, 23 cars on a half mile, going 6 wide!)just as much as you can an f1 race, and most times, I would wager more.

[trumperZ06]

;) Hhmmmm... the last Show Room Stock cars are being run in the SCCA club events... and these are NOT show room stock. They are much closer to the car you can buy from the dealer...

:dozey: Than any COT running in NA$CAR !!!

[Nick Brad]

I don't like the look and never will.
It basically looks as though your local boy racer has been let loose in *insert aftermarket supplier of your choice* and had a whale of a time. I can see almost identical rear spoilers on cars zooming around my home town and that front end is hideous. I agree wholeheartedly with the improved safety aspects and supposed closer running, but I feel it could have been achieved without ruining the aesthetics. The different bodyshapes brought something to the racing, each manufacturer had it's own aerodynamic advantages, what's to make the decision between manufacturers now apart from engines, (which I'd prefer to see one engine than one bodyshape with different stickers).

[Mark in Oshawa]

;) Hhmmmm... the last Show Room Stock cars are being run in the SCCA club events... and these are NOT show room stock. They are much closer to the car you can buy from the dealer...

:dozey: Than any COT running in NA$CAR !!!

Never said it was. All I was pointing out is you don't need fast race cars to provide good races. The criticism was that the Busch cars are faster on many tracks than the COT. All Iwas saying was so?

[jslone]

If they can update the safety of the car,which is a great thing indeed,to make the cars safer,then why cant they do the same with the engines?I mean if it wants to be the so called COT then have the engine as part of it.

[Mark in Oshawa]

jslone, they have never bothered to update it, because the engine rules they have now have worked as far as competitive balance is concerned. I think they don't want a spending war with electronic controls on fuel injection and engine monitors....

[RedIntrepid9]

The fact is NASCAR likes the old-style engine because they can police it. If they allowed all the newest engine technology to be used, they couldn't control it as well. The big-buck teams would be able to find big-buck ways to cheat and NASCAR would have to spend big bucks to acquire the technology to catch them....

[call_me_andrew]

Considering that all the small teams buy their engines from big buck teams now, I don't think that really matters.

[DEI8151]

Well first off, I don't watch GP2. Maybe I should, but I only have so much time to watch racing, and watching a bunch of guys on the way up with names I never heard of is fed by my watching Atlantics and Star Mazda.

But to your criticism. You obviously feel the Busch guys being faster in the old style car vs the COT's makes the whole thing a sham. I disagree and here is why (god, I guess I have done it, Iam defending the COT now!!):

IF A Busch car laps a track in 29 seconds, and the COT turns a 30 second lap, can you tell if they are not on the track at the same time? NO, of course not, not without a watch. If you say you can, you are lying because as a timing and scoring guy, I cant really tell unless the slower car is RADICALLY slower. So if you cant tell how much slower the COT car is ( and it aint gonna be much because they still have the power under the hoods), then why should it be an issue? Furthermore, if the COT provides closer racing on tracks where it hasn't been great in the past (Charlotte, Texas, Kansas, Chicagoland, Fontana) in every race, then the relative speed compared to a Busch car is moot. Furthermore, Busch cars may end up being faster, but I suspect as time goes on they will be slowed down because of your point. Don't think for a second NASCAR is sleeping and not picking up on your comment or others like it. I suspect a "Busch" (or whomever takes over for them) COT is not long in calling.

No, COT is something we are stuck with. I didn't like the car aestheically originally, and I didn't really see the point in dumping the old car, I thought there were tweaks to be made in the aero to help the competitive balance, but NASCAR has admittely pulled this off pretty well really. I still think the car can be funny looking, but it has grown on me. I dislike there is no real difference in body from manufacturer a to manufacturer b, but that has been true for a while anyhow. I like the fact it isn't offset. I like the fact it will be the same car in appearence from Daytona to Martinsville. In short, I am a convert to the cause.....even though I didn't want to be.

I think your point is made that the car shouldn't be slower than the Busch car, but the quality of the racing is up. Hey, IRL cars lap Indy at 220mph and NASCAR at 181,but is either show less than the other? No, of course not. Speed matters little in the quality of the racing. You can enjoy a race of showroom stock cars or formula vee's ( I still laugh at the memory of Formula Vee's racing at Mosport's ovals a few years back, 23 cars on a half mile, going 6 wide!)just as much as you can an f1 race, and most times, I would wager more.

cant wait to see how this COT handles at Fontana in February, not gonna be good me thinks

[Mark in Oshawa]

Considering that all the small teams buy their engines from big buck teams now, I don't think that really matters.

The big buck teams would keep the best stuff for themselves, and if we went to Fuel injection and engine management systems, you would have millions being spent on R and D. No, the engine rules are the last bastion of what made NASCAR great. Nothing says American like a small block V8 with a big honking carb and that throrty roar....

[Nick Brad]

I agree, modernising the engines is not the way to go, I was thinking more along the lines of only one engine manufacturer with regards to rule changes. The average person would be more inclined to go out and buy a road car that looked like the one that won on sunday than because the same manufacturer supplied the engine, (which isn't an option on the road car anyway).

[Mark in Oshawa]

Nick to be honest, I have no idea why the auto manufacturers are involved except for advertising. Nothing on the car applies to the street anymore, unlike something like ALMS or F1, where there still might be a spin off or two. Heck, I am more impressed by cars in the SCCA World Challenge and how certain makes there perform than anything in NASCAR. It is all strictly for advertising....which is why no one squaked when NASCAR said a common body would be the rule for COT.

[trumperZ06]

Nick to be honest, I have no idea why the auto manufacturers are involved except for advertising. Nothing on the car applies to the street anymore, unlike something like ALMS or F1, where there still might be a spin off or two. Heck, I am more impressed by cars in the SCCA World Challenge and how certain makes there perform than anything in NASCAR. It is all strictly for advertising....which is why no one squaked when NASCAR said a common body would be the rule for COT.

;) Mark, They SQUAWKED... NA$CAR... didn't even bother to listen !!!

World Challenge series... offers some interesting competition. When Cadillac first entered the series... their engines were pushed back... almost to the drivers seat. Cadillac used a de-stroked Chevy engine... reving to 8000+ rpm and ran away at Sebring. We saw them at the Cadillac booth at ALMS/RoadAtlanta.

Our favorite Vette driver Lou G... been having "fits" with the stewards over rule changes in World Challenge, for the last couple of years.

[call_me_andrew]

They squaked plenty. Why do you think NASCAR backed out of that common engine idea?

And if the little teams want better engines they can always take their buisness to Toyota.

[ms0362]

Don't like em, doubt I ever will. They could have incorporated all the safty stuff into the existing cars. They could have boxed up the existing cars and changed the downforce to lessen the aero dependance of the car. I've said it several times in this forum before... if safety is the driving force behind this then why do we have another 43 cars racing each Saturday with the old design!!?? Brian France is going to keep screwing with this sport until he has it in a total mess.

[call_me_andrew]

Don't like em, doubt I ever will. They could have incorporated all the safty stuff into the existing cars. They could have boxed up the existing cars and changed the downforce to lessen the aero dependance of the car. I've said it several times in this forum before... if safety is the driving force behind this then why do we have another 43 cars racing each Saturday with the old design!!?? Brian France is going to keep screwing with this sport until he has it in a total mess.

I don't think you could work things like higher roofs, higher framerails, and progressive door bars into the old cars.

And the Busch cars can't (let me add appropriate emphasis) CAN'T be replaced yet. And it's not as if the Busch cars are that unsafe. It's just that the COT is better for saftey. It's like comparing sex with an average looking woman (good) to sex with a supermodel (better). I've got points comming my way don't I?

[Mark in Oshawa]

They squaked plenty. Why do you think NASCAR backed out of that common engine idea?

And if the little teams want better engines they can always take their buisness to Toyota.


They squaked the way they always do, more for show than for any substance. Now they all drink the Kool Aid and say how much they like the new car, (except for Roush, and even he wont condemn it completely) Kyle Busch was the only guy truly honest about the new car, but most are just consigned to the reality of it.

No, the teams do what they are told, because in the end, they have little alternative and that is the reason Brian France gets away with being so hamfisted and arrogant about this.

I said it before the COT I thought too that they could have put most of what they wanted in the old car, but I must admit the COT hasn't been a horrible race car. If it in the end, it saves a lot of headaches for the teams, and that jury is not in yet, then maybe it is worth it. I have started to come around on the car, but I don't think it is the worst thing that could have happened....

THAT would be the Chase, which I have come to the conclusion has been messed with so much, that NASCAR eventually will have 20 cars in it. I think the attitude they can tinker with this sport forever will eventually hurt them in the end. AT some point, they will start to turn people off. Maybe that has already started.....

[call_me_andrew]

They squaked the way they always do, more for show than for any substance. Now they all drink the Kool Aid and say how much they like the new car, (except for Roush, and even he wont condemn it completely) Kyle Busch was the only guy truly honest about the new car, but most are just consigned to the reality of it.

I was talking about the manufacturers (you know: Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota), not the teams.

[ms0362]

Sorry... I disagree with you.

[ms0362]

I don't think you could work things like higher roofs, higher framerails, and progressive door bars into the old cars.

And the Busch cars can't (let me add appropriate emphasis) CAN'T be replaced yet. And it's not as if the Busch cars are that unsafe. It's just that the COT is better for saftey. It's like comparing sex with an average looking woman (good) to sex with a supermodel (better). I've got points comming my way don't I?

I disagree with you

[RaceFanStan]

..... It's just that the COT is better for saftey.
It's like comparing sex with an average looking woman (good) to sex with a supermodel (better).
I've got points comming my way don't I?
Actually you're wrong about that .....
good sex depends on a woman's participation ......
a supermodel that just lays there is NOT good ......
a less attractive woman who gets into it & participates is MUCH better .....
bedding a supermodel is no guarantee of a good lay. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

It's the same thing with the COT, to some people it may not look as good .....
but in time it's performance will be better & the added safety will be a bonus. :D

[ms0362]

Not really getting the supermodel/COT sex thing.... I'll leave that to the experts.

[willracefan]

i blame the cot for jeff gordon having more time with standard cars to still have good runs before a usual slump, which is happening now.

[Osella]

OK, I know he may not be around in NASCAR as a driver much longer, but if Michael Waltrip (or any driver) has to take his HANS device and helmet OFF inside a burning car just to fit out of the window of the current car, then I say bring on the CoT!

Also, Ricky Rudd said he probably wouldn't have had such a severe injury in the CoT, so if it improves safety for only a little reduction in the look and no detriment to the racing, then go for it. Also, as has been mentioned before, if it gets rid of the awful looking offset cars, that's a plus too!

[oldhippie]

what happened to the big escape hatch in the roof?

[Osella]

Apparently it simply didn't make the car go any faster and cost more to put in, so when teams have a budget they didn't want to spend it on anything that isn't compulsory and didn't make the car go faster...

[Jonesi]

what happened to the big escape hatch in the roof?

Two things. When the teams improved the top of the driver's seat to protect them from head & neck injuries it made it much harder to get out of the hatch. The CoT has a larger window area so it's easier to get out of, compared to the old car. Only a couple of drivers had the hatch put in their car. I think Mikey was the only one to use it, and that was after a win, not an accident situation.

[MAX_THRUST]

Ugly women are generally more grateful and will put out more and will try to satify the man to in ways good looking girls don't have to......I see your point, BUT HOW DOES the COT know its ugly, its a car????

What is interesting is the two brits on here think the car is ugly, but most US posters feel it is ok....Is this a cultural thing going on.

Also with all the possible driver changes in NASCAR this coming year with open wheel guys flocking in, and the change to the COT, hasn't NASCAR gone through a massive change these last couple of years, what with Toyota jumping in this season. My concern there is will NASCAR stop being so American, will the old fans of NASCAR fell a little pissed that there sereis is being taken over. What happens if the Europeans end and North and South Americans drive better than the current crop US drivers, what happens when the American drivers aren't dominating will NASCARs popularity start to falter.

There are a lot of big gambles taking place in US motorsport right now with NASCAR, when do you think Honda is gonna want to join in and how many road race events are looking to be added to the CUP season??? When do they get Montreal and Mexico?


PS Mark in Oshawa, I found something that I don't agree with you on at last, your always right, but this time I got ya....cars don't have to be fast to be good for racing. Sometimes the little slow cars make for better drafting races, we have a pickup truck series in the UK, which is great, especially on the oval at Rockingham, UK. Lol.......