If Hamilton wins, will it cheapen the WDC?

[Hawkmoon]

Lewis Hamilton has pretty much galvanised the fan base with his performances this year. Some absolutely love him and can't praise him enough. Others think he's overrated and is only doing what any driver in a car as good as the McLaren would do. Very few fans are ambivalent towards him.

I'm wondering if the Hamitlon detractors don't like him because they don't want to see the WDC go to a rookie. The FIA Formula 1 World Championship is not something that you should be able to attain by waltzing in and walking off with it in your first year. Shouldn't it be bloody difficult to win?

Does a rookie winning the world title, something that most drivers spend their entire careers chasing and never get close to, somehow devalue the most prestigious prize in world motorsport? It shouldn't be that easy, should it?

Personally, I don't want Hamilton to win primarliy because I hate McLaren but there is a part of me that doesn't wan't Hamilton to win because I feel that he hasn't "paid his dues", as it were.

Perhaps others feel the same way?

[Ari]

Take cover mate!!!!

For what it's worth I agree with you. I'm kinda on the fence in saying it cheapens the sport.

I don't think there's any doubt he's in the best car BUT in saying that... he has driven some brilliant races and brought it home under pressure numerous times. That takes skill and balls.

[fandango]

I'm more a fan of F1 than any one driver or team, but if pushed my favourite drivers at the moment are Alonso and Massa. I like Hamilton too, because he has made such an impact, and has changed the entire idea of what a rookie can do, has changed the idea of what's possible.

If he wins it won't devalue the championship at all. In the wake of Schumacher's retirement it shows how well the sport can renew itself. However, that's if. Whatever happens, this year's champion will not be accused of waltzing away with the title now that the "great man" has gone.

Speaking of renewal, it's the team bosses that need to move on. Starting with Bernie, they need to get some younger blood in.

[wmcot]

As far as a rookie winning the WDC, it would probably have to happen someday. If not LH, then sombody will come along and do it. LH has a natural talent which nobody expected in a rookie, but he's not your average rookie.

I'm not much of a McLaren fan, but I can recognize talent when I see it even if it isn't on my favorite team.

If LH wins, it won't cheapen the WDC unless it is found that McLaren were guilty of espionage/cheating and that's a topic for another thread.

[leopard]

Hamilton is great, gains full support from the team, driving one of the best car. I don't know if this is true to intrude someone from title with his own ability ought to reach. It maybe right that the driver must walk trough a long journey before winning the title, Alonso had to struggle first in underdog team Minardi, Kimi, Massa started racing F1 in a team like Sauber. It sounds like driving F1 isn't as difficult as we thought before if he finally wins.

You may have the same chance on the title of F1 WDC in the future. :D

[Ian McC]

It's a good question Hawkmoon, problem is the 'galvanised fan base' is unlikely to give you good answers. You are likely to get some crap posted.

I don't think it cheapens the WDC, mainly because it isn't something that happens every year. I also don't think you can say he has had it easy, he has spent most of his life working for it, many have said he is the best prepared driver to enter F1, and no doubt teams will be looking to repeat this.

He could win the WDC because he is good enough and in a good car. There is no doubt it takes both. Of the 22 drivers at the moment only 4 are in a car good enough, but how many of those other 18 would actually be in a position to win the WDC if you put them in Hamiltons seat?

One things certain, his talent put him in this seat. McLaren would of not given him a drive if he wasn't up to it.

[leopard]

I have no doubt at all on his talent. It maybe right he is up to what McLaren wanted from him.

Just a point, supposing they have known that he will drive that good, I doubt Ron Dennis would want to snatch the two reigning champion away with such enticing money from Braitore.

[tinchote]

I'll talk about this as someone who wouldn't be very happy with McLaren winning the WDC.

I don't know if someone keeps those statistics, but from what I've seen he is probably the driver who made the least mistakes this season. Add to that the mounting pressure he's had since the beginning of the season (first as "let's see when the rookie blows it, and later with all eyes over him as he leads the WDC) and I think that his performance has been superb.

[THE_LIBERATOR]

It wouldn't cheapen the WDC itself, but it would make the rest of the drivers look cheap.

Nobody ever won a championship in a bad car.

[leopard]

I'll talk about this as someone who wouldn't be very happy with McLaren winning the WDC.

I don't know if someone keeps those statistics, but from what I've seen he is probably the driver who made the least mistakes this season. Add to that the mounting pressure he's had since the beginning of the season (first as "let's see when the rookie blows it, and later with all eyes over him as he leads the WDC) and I think that his performance has been superb.
could be :) ;)

[Hondo]

I don't know if it would cheapen the championship as much as it would prove the right time,right place,right car, right team theory. Hamilton does indeed have a great talent for driving a race car. He also has long experience with the McLaren organization, he has a decent car, early on anyway he had the benefit of Alonso's wisdom, set-up advice, and experience, and best of all he could push a little harder on race day knowing that as a rookie, he would be forgiven the odd spin or shunt.

I think some of the exquisitely engineered automatic Williams cars (traction control, automatic suspension, adjustments from the pits via laser, etc.) of the 90's probably did more to cheapen the Driver's Championship than anything else. Thats why there's so much argument over Hill, Villeneuve, and at the time, Mansell.

People are talking like Hamilton has this thing in the bag and he doesn't. We have all seen Alonso, Kimi, and others come storming through the field after having to start from the back of the grid on "impossible to pass" tracks after suffering engine replacement penalties. I have seen Hamilton start at the top and finish at the top. As far as pressure goes, between the McLarens, Ferraris, and BMWs, I don't know that it really takes that much to keep one of them behind you. Nick was able to keep Alonso behind him last weekend but if Alonso would have had another 20 bhp it probably would have been a different story.

Hamilton may be in the same league as Massa. Both are great when they start up front, but Massa struggles when he starts a few rows back. We need to see Hamilton start from a few rows back. Until then, there's nothing wrong with being lucky.

[Valve Bounce]

NO!!

Next question, please!!

[BeansBeansBeans]

It wouldn't cheapen the Championship it my view. It would simply be a remarkable achievement. He has exceeded all expectations, and although it is clear he has the best car, he has alongside him a driver of the highest calibre. To be leading Alonso at this stage of the campaign is little short of phenomenal.

[BDunnell]

I agree with the 'no' answers to this. It's nearly happened before and no-one was complaining, though there weren't any internet message boards on which to discuss the merits of one driver over another.

[BeansBeansBeans]

I agree with the 'no' answers to this. It's nearly happened before and no-one was complaining, though there weren't any internet message boards on which to discuss the merits of one driver over another.

In the 1930s...

Modena1918: If Bernd Rosemeyer wins the European title will it devalue the sport?

Silver_Arrow: Lol, Nuvolari sux

[BDunnell]

In the 1930s...

Modena1918: If Bernd Rosemeyer wins the European title will it devalue the sport?

Silver_Arrow: Lol, Nuvolari sux

:laugh:

Excellent.

[Flat.tyres]

I didnt want to read this thread thinking it was just another bashing thread but I should have known better from Hawk. it is an axcellent question, fairly put and reasonable argued by all contributors :up:

Lets face it, the Ferrari and McLaren isnt too far apart. One is better on some circuits and the other on others. realistically, there are 4 drivers currently that have the opportunity to win the title.

at the beginning of the year, before Aus, I would have put money on Kimi strolling it but the rookie kept himself in a position of contention. when the others suffered mechanical failure or driver error, he was again consistant and after a few races, stepped to the front.

personally, I think that the Ferrari was the better car last year over the Renault and am not convinced there is more than a fag paper between the Ferrari and McLaren this year. yet, Alonso beat the mighty Schumacher last year but is being, and I think this is fair, out performed this year. You can argue that Lewis benefitted from using Alonsos setting but because of their different driving style, does this not illustrate Hamiltons ability to use a set-up not fine tuned to his driving and still win?

so, there is some very strong cars and drivers out there he is competing with. I think that IF he comes home with the title, he would not have lucked it but wrested it from a position where most people would have given him no chance at the beginning of the season.

I suppose the question is, "Is he really that good to beat the best, in equal machinary, in his first year"?

[Hondo]

I suppose the question is, "Is he really that good to beat the best, in equal machinary, in his first year"?

That is what we are all waiting to find out.

Although Alonso's set-ups may not be perfect for Hamilton's driving style, most driver's set-ups have evolved from the pain and suffering of finding out what doesn't work and Hamilton has been spared that, for the most part. So while they may not be perfect, they put him much closer to what does work and Hamilton can further refine the set-up from there.

[Rudy Tamasz]

It would devalue the sport. Many fans love it when a true personality wins the title through a combination of talent, painful effort and luck. In case of Hamilton the driver-point-the-car-team do-the-rest approach reaches its peak. Hamilton looks like an add-on to the car, a triumph of biotechnology, something that McLaren grew in a flowerpot to meet all their requirements. Of their latest drivers JPM was too emotional, Kimi was tough on cars, Alonso behaves like a prima donna. So McLaren wanted a perfect cruise control instead and they got it. They even may win WDC fair and square, but I'm not gonna like it.

[airshifter]

In my opinion, it wouldn't cheapen the sport at all.

I knew almost nothing about Hamilton until his seat was confirmed, and have no national bias towards or against any of the drivers. But Hamilton has performed well under pressure, and has responded to every challenge the other drivers have offered so far.

I think the Ferrari and Mclaren are very close in overall performance, though the Mclaren may have a slight edge in handling and the Ferrari a slight edge in straight line speed. I would really enjoy seeing Kimi win the WDC, as I think reliability problems in past years are one of the only real reasons he doesn't already have one. But unless Ferrari has more reliability problems that cause Kimi to lose points, I think Lewis will still beat him, and as long as it continues to be done in the fair manner it currently is I'll accept that Lewis beat him fair and square.




I'm very impressed watching Hamilton in low speed tight areas of the track. His precision when using the curbs to rotate the car is remarkable, and his quickness in correcting any error is equal if not better than anyone in recent years. Regardless of how he was groomed for the position, driving skills like that don't just happen without a great deal of effort.

[Valve Bounce]

In the 1930s...

Modena1918: If Bernd Rosemeyer wins the European title will it devalue the sport?

Silver_Arrow: Lol, Nuvolari sux

Hahahaha!! :up: I've got the tape. ;)

[Valve Bounce]

In my opinion, it wouldn't cheapen the sport at all.

I knew almost nothing about Hamilton until his seat was confirmed, and have no national bias towards or against any of the drivers. But Hamilton has performed well under pressure, and has responded to every challenge the other drivers have offered so far.

I think the Ferrari and Mclaren are very close in overall performance, though the Mclaren may have a slight edge in handling and the Ferrari a slight edge in straight line speed. I would really enjoy seeing Kimi win the WDC, as I think reliability problems in past years are one of the only real reasons he doesn't already have one. But unless Ferrari has more reliability problems that cause Kimi to lose points, I think Lewis will still beat him, and as long as it continues to be done in the fair manner it currently is I'll accept that Lewis beat him fair and square.

I'm very impressed watching Hamilton in low speed tight areas of the track. His precision when using the curbs to rotate the car is remarkable, and his quickness in correcting any error is equal if not better than anyone in recent years. Regardless of how he was groomed for the position, driving skills like that don't just happen without a great deal of effort.

My sentiments also.

[markabilly]

The only devalue to the sport is that it demonstrates again the importance of great cars and great engineers over the drivers.

I still remain convinced that had he found himself in the hoofs of red cow burger, he would have had a completely different end to his career (although Tost might have also had a VERY Different end, as I think that when Tost grabbed him, like he grabbed Speedie, that we would not be talkin swivel, we be doing the swivel with Tost spinning like like a top on amphetimines in the middle of pit lane, based on the conversation between RD and LH)

While it was a hundred years before you were born, a rookie named Dan Gurney hit the track and was very fast in a ferrari...much later Enzo said (true or not cause he was perhaps hurt by Dan's lack of interest in continuing to be part of the politics of team red) that he gave him a faster car to see the mental effect on his teamates of a rookie blasting by them...nevertheless, the only driver on the grid that Jim Clark ever seemed to think could match him for speed, did not win a wdc

Similarly Clark's first year did not go well, even though in the 60's Clark seemed to have a magic ability to communicate with his car and become one, and there was the crash with Von Tripps, with Tripps flipping into the stands. (For those wondering about the movie Grand Prix and the pressure on the frenchman at the end, it had a real world counterpart in Von Tripp)

The danger and price for a mistake was also much higher. I was a fan of Clark, Mclaren, Savage, Revson, Hume, Gurney, Rindt, Mario, Siffert, Stewart and Cevert. Within three or four years of Clark's death, 7 would die as the result of an accident in a race car.

But in those days, a driver did not do 5, 10 or 20 laps, and take a look at the computer to see how he was going, especially compared to his teamate. He had to figure out on his own where he was going faster and where he was going slower, the braking points and acceration points, and that took special skills, and a feeling for the car that no one could just walk into and simply do.

Now with computer and race car driving simulators at Maclarenut etc, the driver truly learns to drive by wire long before he actually sees the circuit....so having a rookie win, no matter how talented, does devalue the WDC in the sense that clearly what was so critical before, pure drivng skill, is not much important anymore

But then that would remain true, regardless of a rookie winning....it just becomes clearer

[Mark]

Would you have said the same in 1996 if JV had won?

[Flat.tyres]

Would you have said the same in 1996 if JV had won?

are MODS allowed to flame ;) :laugh:

I suppose its true that whoever wins, people look back at the "good ole days" when it was much more a driver on top of an engine but its also fair to say that the boys out there today are super quick and would be in a box cart. They have to race with what they have.

[markabilly]

Would you have said the same in 1996 if JV had won?

No, I would have said it was pure driving talent inherited from his poppa :D

But in truth, the answer is yes and said it back then. :(

However, both JV and JPM had quite a bit more experience in driving in major competition for large $$$$$ than does LH, and now the engineering is getting even better and more important than ever...just look at all the wings, winglets and those pointed ears or horns....compared to the dinosaur driven by JV. And now we have this computerized race driving simulator for drivers.

JV said after Spa, where as a rookie he had been really fast from the get go, that he had primarily learned the circuit using a computer game that was commercially available to anyone.....

And now it is to the point where enough gas to complete one lap can make a third of a second difference in qualifying (atleast that is what someone else on this board said) and severe squabbling in the pits..... so everyone saying X was faster .5 seconds than teammate Y all day long, shows X is the better driver just is not a reliable indicator of reality. It could all be because X was carrying 4 gallons more fuel....(to say nothing of tires, set up, etc)

I could just hear Jimmy Clark saying that Graham Hill beat me by .3 seconds, because I had an extra 4 gallons of fuel on board...NOT!!
Clark would not have been so stupid, and everyone would have laughed his head off at such a poor excuse :rolleyes:

But now it ain't such an excuse anymore, and is now what makes or breaks a WDC.

[markabilly]

are MODS allowed to flame ;) :laugh:

I suppose its true that whoever wins, people look back at the "good ole days" when it was much more a driver on top of an engine but its also fair to say that the boys out there today are super quick and would be in a box cart. They have to race with what they have.

No they have engineers watching them very carefully and do what they are told........poor JV just did not quite understand that....or they get replaced by someone who will......and for any of these guys to think that they could have done it back then is a joke...poor LH if he had the same crash even as late as 1985, he would have died and never had a chance

[Flat.tyres]

No they have engineers watching them very carefully and do what they are told........poor JV just did not quite understand that....or they get replaced by someone who will......and for any of these guys to think that they could have done it back then is a joke...poor LH if he had the same crash even as late as 1985, he would have died and never had a chance

the loss of Senna was great indeed :bigcry: but if he hadnt of crashed, would we have RS, MS, LH, RB, RK etc, etc walking around today :)

[raphael123]

Take cover mate!!!!

For what it's worth I agree with you. I'm kinda on the fence in saying it cheapens the sport.

I don't think there's any doubt he's in the best car BUT in saying that... he has driven some brilliant races and brought it home under pressure numerous times. That takes skill and balls.

What brilliant races?
For me, it's his consistency which has got him to where he is. What he has so far achieved is beyond belief, but when I think of him, I think of his consistency rather than outright brilliant races, like Alonso's Hungarian GP last year etc, Hamilton has yet to have one in my opinion.

[markabilly]

the loss of Senna was great indeed :bigcry: but if he hadnt of crashed, would we have RS, MS, LH, RB, RK etc, etc walking around today :)

Unfortunately LH's crash was very similar to Senna's collison with the wall, but the results were horrendously different. Curent drivers do not know how lucky they are...

[BeansBeansBeans]

poor LH if he had the same crash even as late as 1985, he would have died and never had a chance

Not necessarily, although he would undoubtably suffered bad leg injuries.

Jean-Pierre Jabouille suffered a similar crash in 1980 which effectively ended his Grand Prix career, but didn't kill him.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Unfortunately LH's crash was very similar to Senna's collison with the wall, but the results were horrendously different. Curent drivers do not know how lucky they are...

Senna's fatal injury was caused by a suspension part piercing his helmet and entering his head. If that hadn't happened, he would have escaped relatively unscathed. This sort of freak occurance is still a possibility in the modern era.

[markabilly]

Senna's fatal injury was caused by a suspension part piercing his helmet and entering his head. If that hadn't happened, he would have escaped relatively unscathed. This sort of freak occurance is still a possibility in the modern era.



In theory, the suspension pieces and the wheels are now suppose to be designed so as to not repeat this incident. The walls are now designed to be more forgiving.

My point was if LH had been in Senna's car, the result would have been the same.

That same weekend, another driver died from a similar accident, and RB also sufferred a massive crash and it was a miracle that he did not die, though he was very seriuosly injured.

Jean-Pierre Jabouille was very lucky that he did not die, again a miracle....and LH was going much faster when he hit than any of the drivers listed in this post.

[jarrambide]

I suppose the question is, "Is he really that good to beat the best, in equal machinary, in his first year"?

Wasn't Alonso suppose to be the best active driver in F1?, at least that was what everyone said at the end of last season (including me).

So lets see, Alonso is the best active driver, Alonso and Hamilton have equal machinery, so if he gets the tile then then the answer is yes, he is really that good to beat the best in equal machinery. Even if he doesn't win the title he has already proven that he is really that good to beat Alonso in a few races in equal machinery.

[Ian McC]

In case of Hamilton the driver-point-the-car-team do-the-rest approach reaches its peak.

There is a lot more to driving an F1 car than that! Technology may have advanced a great deal over the years but you can't suggest that has almost reduced the driver to the level of a video games player.

Hamilton is certainly a racer, you only had to see him in GP2 last year to know that.

[markabilly]

There is a lot more to driving an F1 car than that! Technology may have advanced a great deal over the years but you can't suggest that has almost reduced the driver to the level of a video games player.

.


I did not not say that, JV did at Spa. What is interesting is that it was some sort of an internet thing, that compared lap times, and while his time on the game got to be very fast, as I recall there were some who were faster than him, and then some who were even faster than them

But more importantly, you are wrong: Tech has, in fact, been proven to have reduced a number of drivers to the level of a video games player, just ask JV, Scoot spedie, and many others, all of whom now when they drive F1, it is at home........ :eek:

[Roamy]

I don't think LH winning the championship will cheapen it but RD may. The deal will alonso is criminal. He should have at least started on the front row and that is the fault of RD.

[jso1985]

I don't think it would cheapen it.

No mater what happens in the next races and how dominant(or not) can he be to snatch the WDC(if), he has had quite a hard time from FA, KR and FM

[Rollo]

If the 1982 Swiss GP at Dijon hadn't been ended one lap late, we could have ended up with the situation where Keke Rosberg would have won a World Championship without actually winning a GP during the season.
Hamilton has won Grands Prix this year, so that at very least makes with worthy of something.

And we already have had a rookie win the title. Nino Farina :D

[555-04Q2]

Lewis Hamilton has pretty much galvanised the fan base with his performances this year. Some absolutely love him and can't praise him enough. Others think he's overrated and is only doing what any driver in a car as good as the McLaren would do. Very few fans are ambivalent towards him.

I'm wondering if the Hamitlon detractors don't like him because they don't want to see the WDC go to a rookie. The FIA Formula 1 World Championship is not something that you should be able to attain by waltzing in and walking off with it in your first year. Shouldn't it be bloody difficult to win?

Does a rookie winning the world title, something that most drivers spend their entire careers chasing and never get close to, somehow devalue the most prestigious prize in world motorsport? It shouldn't be that easy, should it?

Personally, I don't want Hamilton to win primarliy because I hate McLaren but there is a part of me that doesn't wan't Hamilton to win because I feel that he hasn't "paid his dues", as it were.

Perhaps others feel the same way?

How would it cheapen the WDC :?: I think it would be bloody marvelous for a rookie to win the WDC and wake up the rest of the grid. I'm not a Hamilton fan but I really admire his speed and ability to challenge a 2 X WDC, the so called fastest driver in F1 Kimi and Massa who is settled at Ferrari now. And he is beating all of them :s hock:

More power to Hamilton. He is doing a fantastic job and so far deserves the title more than any of the other 3 at the moment.

[raikk]

Lewis Hamilton has pretty much galvanised the fan base with his performances this year. Some absolutely love him and can't praise him enough. Others think he's overrated and is only doing what any driver in a car as good as the McLaren would do. Very few fans are ambivalent towards him.

I'm wondering if the Hamitlon detractors don't like him because they don't want to see the WDC go to a rookie. The FIA Formula 1 World Championship is not something that you should be able to attain by waltzing in and walking off with it in your first year. Shouldn't it be bloody difficult to win?

Does a rookie winning the world title, something that most drivers spend their entire careers chasing and never get close to, somehow devalue the most prestigious prize in world motorsport? It shouldn't be that easy, should it?

Personally, I don't want Hamilton to win primarliy because I hate McLaren but there is a part of me that doesn't wan't Hamilton to win because I feel that he hasn't "paid his dues", as it were.

Perhaps others feel the same way?

No... thats the other drivers problem not Hamilton's..he's making the sport stronger by pushing all the top guns to their limit.. Hamilton has already paid his dues using the motorsports latter and having his dad work 3 jobs just to fund him..,

[leopard]

Hamilton has more consistency for his talent and smartness, the speed i think still belongs to Ferrari, don't get biased :)

[wmcot]

First, I'm not a Hamilton fan. Having said that, I do believe that he has a talent unlike anyone the sport has ever seen before. He doesn't just drive, he races. It would be no problem if he won the WDC from my point of view. (Not that he would be my personal favorite, but the WDC isn't a popularity contest.)

[ArrowsFA1]

I agree with wmcot. Having Hamilton as 2007 champion would not "cheapen" the WDC. It would merely confirm what an extraordinary talent this man is. There are no rules as to how many races or seasons a driver should complete before he is 'allowed' to win a title, and that fact that no-one has won the WDC in their rookie year (other than Farina :p ) shows how tough it is to do.

[leopard]

... but the WDC isn't a popularity contest
it IS :)

[Hawkmoon]

Perhaps "cheapen" wasn't the right word.

I do have a nagging feeling that Hamilton, somehow, hasn't earn't the title yet. I'm sure Lewis and his father would vehemently disagree.

I don't say he doesn't deserve the title, becuase if he does win he will have definently deserved the win.

I'm also honest enough to admit that if Hamilton was driving a Ferrari I would, in all likelyhood, never have started this thread.

I will bow to the will of the forum. A Hamilton WDC will not cheapen the WDC. After all, there's no point in arguing against the 40 plus posts that state the opposite! :)

[jens]

If a rookie wins the title, then it would be historic and makes headlines. I think that therefore it gives more fame to F1 and will be a gain for the series.

If we look back to other great drivers' career starts, then it can be noticed that they were quick from the beginning. Okay, they made mistakes and were not technically skilled yet, but raw speed tends to be more or less there from the beginning. I can understand that a rookie's title on some way makes WDC to look cheaper (and it's always more interesting to follow such driver's career, who starts from the back and then gradually tries to move upwards!), but I don't think it will show that F1 has in some way become "easy". The difference between Hamilton and previous greats is that they weren't given a top car in the beginning. Imagine if Schumacher had driven for Williams in 91, Senna for McLaren in 84, etc, etc - I suppose they certainly would have scored race wins and why not challenged for the title.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

The key is that Alonso is his teammate. Considering the skill and experience of Alonso, and barring mechanical problems being a deciding factor, if Lewis beats him he will very much have earned the title. If he would have had Paffett or de la Rosa (who are both talented drivers) it could have been more quenstionable though :)

Also, might I suggest something? Lately we have seen quite a few GP2 drivers step into an F1 car and be impressive. Might it be that GP2 is a good proving ground and pretty close to F1? Just compare it to F3000; few champions of that series has set the world on fire in F1. Apparently F3000 was unlike any other Formula (though FPA was quite close I have heard!).

[rohanweb]

No..it wont cheapen the sport, rather for a change a Rookie wins it by far beating the tough nuts with similar cars like Raikonen/Alonso ...
it will be a history if LH holds off his competitors..
MBE next year for LH anyone ??? I am sure he is well worth getting one!

[BeansBeansBeans]

I do have a nagging feeling that Hamilton, somehow, hasn't earn't the title yet.

I know what you mean, in a way. Lewis has begun his Grand Prix career in the best car, and hasn't had to cut his teeth at the back of the grid, like most rookies. Still, the reality is, he's in the McLaren and if he wins the title, he'll have deserved it.

[F1MAN2007]

Even not being his true fan, but Lewis winning the title it will not cheapen the WDC. Every driver has his bad and good days and apart this every one out there has also indidual problem connected to his career. So Lewis is as well.

[Eki]

Just a point, supposing they have known that he will drive that good, I doubt Ron Dennis would want to snatch the two reigning champion away with such enticing money from Braitore.
Unless he wanted to eliminate competition. Taking Alonso away from Renault meant he can't win a third consecutive WDC at Renault.

[Hazell B]

He could win the WDC because he is good enough and in a good car.

I agree, but I started to think it may just cheapen the whole sport if he does win during last week's race.

LH appears (I stress appears!) to be getting a bit of FIA help here and there, and if the average man in the street with only a passing interest in the sport starts reading in his Sun how the lad is getting FIA rulings in his favour all the time .... well it just isn't good. I read about cycling being dirty and assume it's all drugged up. I read footballers are paid too much and believe it. Makes sense the non-F1 follower will think racing's a bit bent if a rookie wins off the back of some other driver being penalised or safety car periods and lifters helping him.

I want him to win, but only if it's 100% fair and on a level playing field. If not, what's the point?

[BeansBeansBeans]

Makes sense the non-F1 follower will think racing's a bit bent if a rookie wins off the back of some other driver being penalised or safety car periods and lifters helping him.

Being lifted back onto the track by a crane was ridiculous (it's not a bloody Playstation game, as MW said), but at the time it was within the rules and ultimately, Lewis did not benefit in championship terms as he finished outside of the points.

The safety car rules also seemed to benefit Lewis in Germany, but again, those rules have been in place all season, and ultimately did not benefit him points-wise. In Canada, several safety car periods went against him, and he still held on masterfully to win, so it all balances out.

As for other drivers being penalised, I don't think Alonso deserved his demotion either, but if that's the only thing which seperates them at season's end, then Lewis has done pretty damn well.

[Hazell B]

Yeah, I get all that, but the average bloke in the street believes what he reads in the papers. He has no interest in actual rules and facts, as proved by all of the UK hating that Ronaldo guy for winking at the World Cup. They thought him a cheat and forgave the real cheater. All because of a simple collection of words in a newspaper, all of which were far beyond fair and honest.

[BDunnell]

As far as I have seen, the British press hasn't started talking about the safety car and crane 'incidents' in Germany in similar terms. Don't forget, this is a British driver we're talking about here — there may have been more moaning about both those things had it been Alonso or Michael Schumacher involved. It would have been equally unjustified as far as the rules are concerned, of course. So I don't see the image of Hamilton's championship being tarnished as a result, at least to most balanced F1-watchers.

Interestingly, on the subject of rookie drivers in the best car, I can't help but think about Giancarlo Baghetti, who of course won his first ever GP in the 1961 Ferrari, which was unquestionably the finest car on that year's grid. He was in no way, I think it's fair to say, a talent to match that of Hamilton, as his subsequent winless career shows. However, I am sure that there was much more admiration for what he achieved in France that day than cynical talk about his only having done it because he was in the fastest car (probably true), and, on that occasion, because so many other people had dropped out (definitely true).

[Jag_Warrior]

Considering the depth of competition this season vs. certain past seasons, if Lewis Hamilton wins the WDC this year, he will most certainly have earned it. Only if the FIA awards him the WDC, with fewer points than Alonso or someone else, would that indicate that the crown was not "earned". As far as this cheapening the championship, I'm at a loss to even consider that question. I can't follow the logic on that one.

[rohanweb]

[quote="Jag_Warrior"]Considering the depth of competition this season vs. certain past seasons, if Lewis Hamilton wins the WDC this year, he will most certainly have earned it. QUOTE]

I agree with your above comments,
yes unlikely in the years back where MS drives his own race without anyone out there with a fast car to challenge him he used to win boring 'WINS' and 'Championships' .. this is great Lewis has 3 faster and much experienced F1 fellows breathing down his back and either catching him or using thier 'experience' to leap ahead of him IT IS INDEED TOUGH FOR LEWIS ..!
and regardless of that LH goes on storming to Pole positions and such a customery podiums almost after each races is just wonderful..
if he win this years WDC he is well earned it.!!!

[Ian McC]

Yeah, I get all that, but the average bloke in the street believes what he reads in the papers. He has no interest in actual rules and facts, as proved by all of the UK hating that Ronaldo guy for winking at the World Cup. They thought him a cheat and forgave the real cheater. All because of a simple collection of words in a newspaper, all of which were far beyond fair and honest.

The average bloke in the street won't think that, it's left to the more paranoid on the forums that are going to come up with that theory.

[Trqster]

If he doesn't crack under the enormous pressure that's on he's shoulders for the last few races he'll certainly deserve winning the WDC!

IMO Hamilton is the closest thing to a perfect driver/racer that the sport has seen yet - the real deal.

[gerrycrossey]

I'm not an F1 fan, i just happened to stray into this thread on my way to the Rally section, but come on!!!! Is Hamilton not at the top of the points table because he has raced his pants off?! Surely even with a great great car its the driver that pilots it(albeit around in circles! :) ) And surely him being a rookie means that by driving in the way he has, he has proved himself as an emence talent by avoiding all the pitfalls made by other rookies, which prevents them from achiving the best possible performance from their cars?! Detracting from the WDC? I would say that he has breathed fresh life into it! that said to be honest I pity fans of F1 as i would forecast that there could be another Schumacher 'esk type character in its midst that threats to distinguish the excitement out of the sport that he brought to it by his mere entrance to the big time.... a vicim of its own success

[leopard]

Unless he wanted to eliminate competition. Taking Alonso away from Renault meant he can't win a third consecutive WDC at Renault.
RD only made Alonso as a sort of man of straw? He hired Alonso to prevent him and Renault win the third title while Hamilton is the long project and being teammated with two times WDC Hamilton is supposed to learn a lot of valuable experience to challenge the title by himself.

If this is true, It sounds like shrewd reasoning, and would raise praise if RD make the scene the title in the second year for Hamilton. Although the amount contracted for Alonso was tempting everybody, I'd agree on wrong moving of Alonso if it has to be a loser.

[leopard]

If he doesn't crack under the enormous pressure that's on he's shoulders for the last few races he'll certainly deserve winning the WDC!

IMO Hamilton is the closest thing to a perfect driver/racer that the sport has seen yet - the real deal.
yeah, but the title of this year will not be a legal course for allegation on crane and stewards favoring him in German ;)

[MAX_THRUST]

In response to the start of this thread.

The situation shows clearly the faults with F1 as a sereies, where cars are built differently to the same rules. However Lewis jumped in a good car and performed well. That is what he should do, the fact he has excelled shows his maturity. Drivers like Button made the wrong decisions sometimes by staying at BAR and HONDA, Lewis was lucky, the timing lucky, most of all he has made the best of a good car. Jaques Villenueve nearly did it in 1996, he was a rookie, appart from his CART title, Indy 500 win, etc. I think lewis has paid his dues those that think he hasn't must be very blinkered.

The kid has done well, with a good car. Alonso has the same car and Lewis has performed well next to him, and sometimnes ahead of him....

Don't see a problem with Lewis winning. The problem is with people who think it is!!!

[Valve Bounce]

In response to the start of this thread.

The situation shows clearly the faults with F1 as a sereies, where cars are built differently to the same rules. However Lewis jumped in a good car and performed well. That is what he should do, the fact he has excelled shows his maturity. Drivers like Button made the wrong decisions sometimes by staying at BAR and HONDA, Lewis was lucky, the timing lucky, most of all he has made the best of a good car. Jaques Villenueve nearly did it in 1996, he was a rookie, appart from his CART title, Indy 500 win, etc. I think lewis has paid his dues those that think he hasn't must be very blinkered.

The kid has done well, with a good car. Alonso has the same car and Lewis has performed well next to him, and sometimnes ahead of him....

Don't see a problem with Lewis winning. The problem is with people who think it is!!!

Well said.

I feel that several other drivers, given the McLaren this year, would also have won races; but beating the current and two time WDC? He's got to be special.

[Flat.tyres]

Well said.

I feel that several other drivers, given the McLaren this year, would also have won races; but beating the current and two time WDC? He's got to be special.

I think this is the fundemental point in the question.

The Macs a great car, as is the Ferrari. argueably, Kimi and Freddie are the benchmark drivers out there.

in comes a rookie into one of the 4 best cars out there and shoves it up the 2 times WDC and the driver that effectivly ended the reign of the mighty Schumacher.

you cannot argue against that without saying that its not a sport any more but a multi billion dollar coing flip.

[Crypt]

Bernie needed something to keep interest in F1 after Schumster left, and he found it, in spades. In that regard I feel it's good for F1. I don't care for Lewis and think he's a spoiled brat, but he's good for the sport. Who else am I going to Boo but Lewis and Alonso? It's so much for gratifying watching my favorite drivers beat the competition.

[Hendersen]

It will definitely cheapen it if he wins by only 5-7 points over Alonso.

At this point, it's become so clear that the FIA and people in power are so much in Hamilton's pocket, that other drivers are going to be scared to do so much as even pass Lewis for fear of reprisal. It's the most ridiculous nonsense I've seen in formula one in over 10 years, easily. It seems every race they have to rewrite the rules to give hamilton some new advantage.

[Valve Bounce]

It will definitely cheapen it if he wins by only 5-7 points over Alonso.

At this point, it's become so clear that the FIA and people in power are so much in Hamilton's pocket, that other drivers are going to be scared to do so much as even pass Lewis for fear of reprisal. It's the most ridiculous nonsense I've seen in formula one in over 10 years, easily. It seems every race they have to rewrite the rules to give hamilton some new advantage.


Yeah!! it's terrible :(
Next they will get the marshalls to use a crane to help him back onto the track to win. :rolleyes:

[555-04Q2]

Yeah!! it's terrible :(
Next they will get the marshalls to use a crane to help him back onto the track to win. :rolleyes:

He he he, thanks Valve you just brightened up my bad start to the day. I had a good chuckle with that one :up:

[wmcot]

Yeah!! it's terrible :(
Next they will get the marshalls to use a crane to help him back onto the track to win. :rolleyes:

But they'll need to practice their routine just like pitstops if they want to get him back more quickly to be in contention. They will definitely need faster cranes (I wonder if McLaren have any copies of crane plans laying about???)

[555-04Q2]

(I wonder if McLaren have any copies of crane plans laying about???)

A new improved trackside crane is being secretly developed in the Mclaren basement and is to be free issued to all F1 tracks around the world within 2 weeks to help improve "safety" ;)

[leopard]

this is good more people realize of the important of the crane