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View Full Version : Who is the Donkey of this weekends mess?



race aficionado
6th August 2007, 03:45
OK . . . there are a couple of candidates:

* Ron Dennis
* Fernando Alonso
* Lewis Hamilton
* Fabrizio
* The Stewards
* donKey jote


I say it's Ron Dennis . . . .





and donKey Jote!!! :D

:s mokin:

ten-tenths
6th August 2007, 04:30
i don't think anybody came out smelling of roses. they all looked pretty pathetic in their own way, but i have to agree and say its ron. he may very well have lost control of his drivers and the team.

Jag_Warrior
6th August 2007, 06:11
I'd have to say that Ron Dennis gets my vote for having a tail pinned on. All others involved seemed to redeem themselves (at least somewhat). Only Dennis still wears egg on his face.

Hawkmoon
6th August 2007, 07:12
It's definently ol' Ron! The man couldn't lie straight in bed over the weekend. Way to go Ron "Mr Integrity" Dennis! ;)

Ian McC
6th August 2007, 08:48
and donKey Jote!!! :D

:s mokin:

Yep, gets my vote :mad:

wmcot
6th August 2007, 08:55
RD - his whole organization is falling apart under him and he keeps trying to spin his stories to fit the facts. Might be time for RD to tend the garden.

millencolin
6th August 2007, 09:58
Ron - no doubt about it

fandango
6th August 2007, 10:22
Nobody was innocent, but I think it's the stewards. Whatever about whether Alonso deliberately blocked Hamilton, he didn't impede him. Hamilton could have gone out again. Of course, his strategy would have been destroyed, but that's not governed by the rules of F1. So why did they have to step in? Should they have penalised Ferrari for "impeding" Massa's progress when they got things wrong? He wasn't actually impeded, and he was partly or wholly to blame for getting himself into that situation.

Alonso can be a bit of a baby. I reckon he blocked LH without knowing the implications, that it was just temper. But worse than all that is my suspicion that Lewis is starting to believe his own hype.

donKey jote
6th August 2007, 10:23
they are all a bunch of donkeys, as confirmed by the great DB :D
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

donKey jote
6th August 2007, 10:27
I say Ron for not keeping his employees under control, and the stewards for effectively screwing the race. The most they should have done in my view (albeit not something I would agree to ;) ), would be to leave Alonso without his fast lap. Then we would have probably had a more entertaining race with both macs and kimi taking eachother on and or out :D

donKey jote
6th August 2007, 10:29
Yep, gets my vote :mad:
shut it bawldy :D

Donney
6th August 2007, 11:18
RD does not look like someone you would trust whereas Hamilton is showing his great ego.

COD
6th August 2007, 12:56
Alonso for being such a crybaby. He was the one who created the biggest mess.

keysersoze
6th August 2007, 15:45
Hamilton--he set the wheels of this train wreck in motion by disobeying team orders.

DonnieDarco
6th August 2007, 17:23
Prize donkey number one has to be Ron Dennis, for lying through his teeth in order to try and save Alonso :D

Prize Donkey number two is Alonso, for taking things way too far, and putting himself out of contention for the race :D He needs to keep better control of his handbag in future ;)

Prize donkey number three is Hamilton, for startig the whole thing off, and telling his boss to swivel :D He best not be looking for a pay rise anytime soon :laugh:

trumperZ06
6th August 2007, 17:23
:dozey: What a week for McLaren... the whole lot of them.

From the Ferari blue-print scandel... to LH... refusing to abide by team orders... to FA's blocking his teammate in the pits, to the cussing match between LH & Ron...

It's been another distasteful episode in the on going soap opera that is...

Formula One... as the World Turns !!!

race aficionado
6th August 2007, 17:48
:dozey: What a week for McLaren... the whole lot of them.

. . . . .

It's been another distasteful episode in the on going soap opera that is...

Formula One... as the World Turns !!!


Distasteful indeed Trumps.

It leaves a sour taste and is embarrasing to boot. :down:

Also - the big loosers are the fans and the "sport" because we had a great thing happening with LH, FA, KR, FM, and even NH fighting for the front possition.

Now it's turned out into a soap opera that we could be spared of - a bad soap opera where there is no cute sex bomb to spice the thing up.

:s mokin:

tinchote
6th August 2007, 17:48
It looks like both FA and LH behaved like children, but that's not par with a team boss lying blatantly on paper. So my vote goes for RD.

Mickey T
6th August 2007, 17:52
it's a bit silly to believe there will not be management issues when your two drivers look like the drivers most likely to win the championship, and lying didn't help ron's public outlook.

but, for mine, it's the stewards and the FIA for getting involved in an internal team squabble.

nigelred5
6th August 2007, 18:57
F1 for having an assenine rule allowing one pit crew only per team in the first place. Stupid, plain stupid.

Here's a thought, rid the series of the assenine 1 pit crew rule. Divide the current pit crew in half and there are still ample personnel to perform a pit stop. Three guys a corner to change tires? It takes 6-7 seconds to fuel the cars. They accomplish that in champcar and indycars with 1 per corner. I'll be generous and even allow the lollipop man and say 8 max per car, one crew per car, not team. that's still less than the 18-20 guys taht regularly decend on an F1 pit stop. Gas and Tires, no waiting and real intra-team competetion from equal teams. At $200+ million a year, they can't devote equal resources? Even the small teams still have 18 or so people servicing a car, so it's not a cost thing. Hell, it might even remove 90% of the existing personnel from pit lane during a race and make it safer. No more sitting waiting for your teammate to finish a smoke before he returns to track.


RD gets a tail for letting the team get way out of hand. I'm sorry, but sensational rookie or not, you support both equally or remove the prohibition on team orders and have a clear , legal #1 and#2. One to race, one to block. Hamilton is good, but they are ALL getting sucked in by the hype.

The stewards get a tail for butting their nose into team strategy IN THE PITS. On track shenanigans, ok fine, if they are blocking or impreding one another then penalize them for what ever, but I have a big problem with penalizing an incident that essentially involved two parked cars.

donKey jote
6th August 2007, 19:33
I vote Anthony, if it is true that he alerted the stewards to ultimately act against his team :laugh:
and Lewis, if it is true that he continued to confront Ron in front of the stewards, leaving them with no choice but to penalise McLaren for their "internal pit affair" :D
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=319047&postcount=43

and last (and least :p : ) Alonso, if it is true that he acted all on his ownio, against team "requests", for getting caught :dozey:
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

Priorat
6th August 2007, 19:49
So, after all, races are decided on the exiting position from the pit lane at Q3?

Sad

donKey jote
6th August 2007, 20:08
Worse than that, they are decided by who whinges loudest in front of the stewards :D

Hondo
6th August 2007, 20:34
I vote for all of us donkeys that continue to watch and support the sorry, parade spectacle that our F1 has become. Hee Haww!

fandango
6th August 2007, 23:23
Can someone explain to me where/how Ron Dennis lied? I'm not disagreeing, I just don't see exactly where it is. Was he caught lying, or is it that people just don't believe him?

donKey jote
6th August 2007, 23:36
Ron apparently lied about the 20+10 seconds to cover-up what was an internal McLaren affair. Without the radio transcripts, we can only believe the FIA stewards who in effect, implied both he and Alonso were being "untrue" :)
(Maybe helped by Lewis' bickering while presenting their case, if you believe what is reported in some Spanish press ;) )

fandango
6th August 2007, 23:58
Thanks. BTW has Alonso said anything about all this since the race finished? It seems he has insinuated doubts about continuing at McLaren, which the press have taken and run with, but he hasn't said anything about Hamilton, or has he? They do/did have an agreement about not talking about each other to the press. Hamilton seems to have spilt out more of this than anyone to the press. Also interesting to see Mansell's reaction, no stranger to having a bit of a moan himself in his day....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6934023.stm

Ian McC
6th August 2007, 23:58
shut it bawldy :D


Right, you and me, outside now! :mad:

Ian McC
6th August 2007, 23:59
I am tired of this now, can we move on to something else?

Probably not, at least not whilst people are not talking to each other.

pits4me
7th August 2007, 00:40
it's a bit silly to believe there will not be management issues when your two drivers look like the drivers most likely to win the championship, and lying didn't help ron's public outlook.

but, for mine, it's the stewards and the FIA for getting involved in an internal team squabble.

McLaren had made it quite clear up to now who was ever fastest in Q2 would get the nod for Q3 which may explain why Lewis challenged the team order in the first place. Lewis was by far the fastest driver all weekend and may have well got past FA with the extra fuel. But then again, I wouldn't put it past McLaren manipulating pit stops between their drivers.

Lewis posted the fasted lap in Q2 of 1:19:301 with his jealous Spaniard team mate +.360 behind. In Q1 LH posted a 1:19:570 with Alonso back in 5th at +.855

My respect for Alonso plummeted when he took that extra ten seconds in the pit stall. If he had left when instructed by the team, chances are Lewis would have bettered his time anyway. Lewis should be commended for not letting all this niggle him, he still went about his business and reminded us that he is still a contender for the WDC.

The donkey is Fabrizio Borra, FA's Phtsio.

Wilderness
7th August 2007, 00:50
I am tired of this now, can we move on to something else?

Probably not, at least not whilst people are not talking to each other.
What else are we going to talk the next threee weeks, Scott Speed???

Mickey T
7th August 2007, 11:56
If he had left when instructed by the team, chances are Lewis would have bettered his time anyway. Lewis should be commended for not letting all this niggle him, he still went about his business and reminded us that he is still a contender for the WDC.



bettered it on a lap he was not, according to the team, entitled to do in the first place? and a lap that he only had an opportunity to do by being unscrupulous, dishonourable and sneaky? a lap he would have done because he ignored the orders of a team - orders that he was happy to have alonso comply with when they worked in hamilton's favour - and a man that has fostered him for a decade, who he insulted publicly?

whether you like ron or not, the bad boy in this is hamilton. ron looked bad by stumbling over themselves trying to protect the team from his fallout.

alonso just tried to give him his comeuppence, to prevent him from running the lap he was never entitled to in the first place. a lap that he cheated the team to do...

fandango
7th August 2007, 11:59
.....My respect for Alonso plummeted when he took that extra ten seconds in the pit stall. If he had left when instructed by the team, chances are Lewis would have bettered his time anyway. Lewis should be commended for not letting all this niggle him, he still went about his business and reminded us that he is still a contender for the WDC.

The donkey is Fabrizio Borra, FA's Phtsio.

But it's not clear that Alonso did it. He may have been following instructions. May have been. However, Hamilton has freely admitted he disobeyed requests to stick to the original plan. His excuse is pretty lame, he could have got on the radio and explained that he didn't want to let Kimi through and that Alonso should stick with him. I find it hard to accept that he decided to go his own way only when he arrived at the first corner. I reckon it was his intention from the off in Q3, but that's just my opinion. In fact, I don't have a major problem with the fact that he did this, but Alonso did nothing worse than him, and that's IF Alonso did it deliberately. So all these "unsportsmanlike behaviour" accusations thrown at Alonso are double standards.

Both drivers should also be equally commended for not letting it affect their driving on raceday, not just Hamilton.

I'm really enjoying this season, but I think Lewis is starting to believe all the hype coming from the British press and all the attention he's getting. He's talked too much about all this outside the team, to the press, and in my eyes taken the shine off his "I'm just a nice guy" image.

And I still think the stewards were way off. If it was all deliberate, ALonso messed up Hamilton's strategy, but he didn't IMPEDE Hamilton, strictly speaking.

And if Alonso had gone out and NOT got pole, I doubt if he would have been penalised. It's purely hypothetical, but does anyone think the stewards would have got involved if Hamilton had been on pole at the end of Q3?

Donney
7th August 2007, 12:09
I completely agree with you fandango none of them are saints, but there are many double standards around here.

truefan72
7th August 2007, 15:04
RD, for compounding the problem. Alosn would have benn dropped back to 5th and the team would have kept the WCC points. He lied to the stewards, initially publicly threw LH under the bus ( which IMO can't be classifdied as favoritism by Alonso) and then when the ruiling came down, tried to backtrakc and left FA out to the wolves wothout publicly admonishing FA's behaviour.

He seemed to look out for one person only, himself and his own sense of meglomaniacle ego. He is more concenred about not looking back than serving the best interes to his drivers or the team, whiuch has cost him the WCC points in Hungary. Overall his equal treatmentt philosphy is good, fair and more than the approrpirate course of direction IMO. His administration over that policy has been less than stellar in terms of PR managment.

truefan72
7th August 2007, 15:11
I vote for all of us donkeys that continue to watch and support the sorry, parade spectacle that our F1 has become. Hee Haww!

Then you are most welcome to leave the thread and forum.

Speaking of parade spectacles, that's ecxactly what Nascar has become, a highly scripted racing show with phantom caution flags to bunch the drivers together. Or IRl which is boring on a whole other level. Or Champ Car, with its boost pass system and barely watchable races.


I'll take F1, thank you

Easy Drifter
7th August 2007, 18:12
Since when are the FIA involved with internal team matters? Enzo and the great Alfred Neubauer would be rolling in their graves. Alfred would probably have fired the FIA. With him if you disobeyed his orders the odds were you were unemployed immediately! :D

Flat.tyres
7th August 2007, 18:21
Since when are the FIA involved with internal team matters? Enzo and the great Alfred Neubauer would be rolling in their graves. Alfred would probably have fired the FIA. With him if you disobeyed his orders the odds were you were unemployed immediately! :D

fair point. Dont know why this wasnt left to McLaren to resolve as it didnt affect anyone else.

BriannaBee
7th August 2007, 18:44
fair point. Dont know why this wasnt left to McLaren to resolve as it didnt affect anyone else.
Both drivers showed a lack of sportsmanship towards each other but only one impeded the other driver. Hamilton disobeyed a team order and McLaren really must deal with that. However, Alonso impeded another competitor so the FIA has a right to deal with that.

But the blame for this mess really goes to Dennis and the McLaren team for not dealing with it better. If Alonso was supposed to be first on track, why wasn't he? Who let Hamilton go so that he was at the front of the queue when they should have held him back? They could have avoided all this mess and the hard feelings quite easily.

Hendersen
7th August 2007, 19:22
Both drivers showed a lack of sportsmanship towards each other but only one impeded the other driver. Hamilton disobeyed a team order and McLaren really must deal with that. However, Alonso impeded another competitor so the FIA has a right to deal with that.

But the blame for this mess really goes to Dennis and the McLaren team for not dealing with it better. If Alonso was supposed to be first on track, why wasn't he? Who let Hamilton go so that he was at the front of the queue when they should have held him back? They could have avoided all this mess and the hard feelings quite easily.


How did Alonso impede Hamilton's race?? He didn't HAVE TO PIT. He could have left. Hamilton's fault, pure and simple. There is no rule that says you must pit before your last hot lap in qualifying, but maybe that's in the every-changing-depending-on-the-nationality-of-the-drivers British rulebook? The other BS he was involved in is just icing on the crapcake known as Lewis Hamilton..

BriannaBee
7th August 2007, 19:39
How did Alonso impede Hamilton's race?? He didn't HAVE TO PIT. He could have left. Hamilton's fault, pure and simple. There is no rule that says you must pit before your last hot lap in qualifying, but maybe that's in the every-changing-depending-on-the-nationality-of-the-drivers British rulebook? The other BS he was involved in is just icing on the crapcake known as Lewis Hamilton..
Alonso didn't impede Hamilton's race because he was back in the field. However, in qualifying, Alonso did impede Hamilton. Hamilton was told to pit and he did - not nice to only follow those team orders that suit you. Once the lollipop lifted for Alonso, Hamilton pulled forward automatically so at that point, abandoning the pitstop was probably no longer an option. Short of being psychic, why would he expect Alonso to continue sitting around chatting with his trainer?

Mintexmemory
7th August 2007, 23:32
Monaco? anyone. Lewis isn't believing hype, he is maturing as a ruthless competitor and one that is able to make a double WC look like a spoiled brat on any given weekend. Schumacher fans have overlooked far more for years. Face facts, the boy is good and he's here to stay. Alonso will carry on a feud with him at his peril.

Roamy
8th August 2007, 03:13
No Brainer - Hamilton followed by his wannabe daddy RON

pits4me
8th August 2007, 08:51
But it's not clear that Alonso did it. He may have been following instructions. May have been. However, Hamilton has freely admitted he disobeyed requests to stick to the original plan. His excuse is pretty lame, he could have got on the radio and explained that he didn't want to let Kimi through and that Alonso should stick with him. I find it hard to accept that he decided to go his own way only when he arrived at the first corner. I reckon it was his intention from the off in Q3, but that's just my opinion. In fact, I don't have a major problem with the fact that he did this, but Alonso did nothing worse than him, and that's IF Alonso did it deliberately. So all these "unsportsmanlike behaviour" accusations thrown at Alonso are double standards.

Both drivers should also be equally commended for not letting it affect their driving on raceday, not just Hamilton.

I'm really enjoying this season, but I think Lewis is starting to believe all the hype coming from the British press and all the attention he's getting. He's talked too much about all this outside the team, to the press, and in my eyes taken the shine off his "I'm just a nice guy" image.

And I still think the stewards were way off. If it was all deliberate, ALonso messed up Hamilton's strategy, but he didn't IMPEDE Hamilton, strictly speaking.



Hype my a$$. Lewis is the REAL DEAL!! Why would Ferrarie be willing to spend 20 million to get him?

With the exception of the last lap posted by Alonso, Hamilton was consistently faster than the two time WDC in Q1, Q2 and most of Q3.

Personally I would like to have seen the stewards leave things alone because Hamilton may have got passed Alonso in the pits if not on the track. He had at least an extra lap of fuel and was .25 seconds faster than his team mate.

jarrambide
8th August 2007, 09:02
Hype my a$$. Lewis is the REAL DEAL!! Why would Ferrarie be willing to spend 20 million to get him?

With the exception of the last lap posted by Alonso, Hamilton was consistently faster than the two time WDC in Q1, Q2 and most of Q3.

Personally I would like to have seen the stewards leave things alone because Hamilton may have got passed Alonso in the pits if not on the track. He had at least an extra lap of fuel and was .25 seconds faster than his team mate.

The problem is that id they had leave things alone they would have set a bad precedent, "do whatever you want to your teammate at the pits during qualifying, we don't mind".

Mickey T
8th August 2007, 09:29
Hype my a$$. Lewis is the REAL DEAL!! Why would Ferrarie be willing to spend 20 million to get him?

With the exception of the last lap posted by Alonso, Hamilton was consistently faster than the two time WDC in Q1, Q2 and most of Q3.

.

i don't doubt lewis is fast or a genuine world championship contender.

but you have to face a little reality. do you really think ferrari, bmw and mclaren drivers need to drive flat out in Q1 and Q2?

fandango
8th August 2007, 09:42
Hype my a$$. Lewis is the REAL DEAL!! Why would Ferrarie be willing to spend 20 million to get him?

I never said he wasn't. Hype is not always untrue, but I think Lewis is having trouble keeping his feet on the ground.