Some overall thoughts

[Finni]

Ford's new evolution seems very, very good. At one point it seemed that Marcus cannot stand against Seb and C4 (after Portugal and Argentina), but now it rather seems that Marcus + Ford has upperhand on gravel. Last year in Finland Loeb was as near to Marcus as Hirvonen was now. Rather large winning marginal to Seb is a good sign overally.

Marcus said that they have better top-speed with the new Focus. This year the car jumped in places where it previously didn't jump. According to reports they has more torque in the engine, better aerodynamic and the car accelerates with more straight manner. Especially Grönholm doesn't slide very much nowadays. Hirvonen's driving looked more aggressive and risky (though very spectacular in Ouninpohja!). Afterall Hirvonen did magnificent job being so close to Marcus. I really didin't expect that Mikko would beat Seb.

Asphalt races will be very interesting. According to Wilson and also Timo Rautiainen the new model should have biggest benefits on asphalt. If that is the case we might see that asphalt races are not "plain sailing for Seb", as Malcolm Wilson stated few months back. If Marcus is involved in winning fight also in asphalt they cannot use team-orders. I am sure if Marcus is far away and Sordo and Loeb are fighting for win they will not allow fair fight - unlike Ford in Finland.

[L5->R5/CR]

I believe that marcus can beat dani on one or two of the tarmac events.

Beating Loeb will be difficult but the WRC06 had potential to do it in Spain last year so who knows.

Two seconds and two thirds in the tarmac events puts Marcus 1 point ahead of Seb. If they can split the remaining gravel Ireland would be incredible. Don't forget though that Mikko can possibly get in front of Seb on gravel which makes things even more interesting.

This is a much better championship to follow than previous years!

[Corny]

I think Marcus has only got an asphalt chance against Seb when it's wet. So hopefully wet tarmac rallies..
Yes the new car is an improvement, but don't forget Marcus is driving against Sebastien Loeb, let's hope on an interesting world championship..

[Finni]

I think Marcus has only got an asphalt chance against Seb when it's wet. So hopefully wet tarmac rallies..
Yes the new car is an improvement, but don't forget Marcus is driving against Sebastien Loeb, let's hope on an interesting world championship..

Actually the difference has been bigger in wet asphalt (Marcus has also reckoned the same).

[Finni]

I believe that marcus can beat dani on one or two of the tarmac events.

In order to beat Dani on tarmac Marcus have to be able to put also Seb under fight. I see that the gap between Sordo and Seb is almost non-existent on tarmac. Dani was only marginally slower than Seb in Monte - in the place where Seb makes his macig.

I think that we will see asphalt races where Dani will take "safe pace" in order to secure Citroen's 1-2. Sordo cannot challenge Seb with same aggressive/risky manner as Hirvonen did toward his number one in Finland. Frequelin will not accept it. Altough it will be interesting to see how Sordo will attack for instance in front of his home crowd in Spain..

[jonkka]

Beating Loeb will be difficult but the WRC06 had potential to do it in Spain last year so who knows.

Back then, it was against Xsara whereas now the opposition is in form of C4. My 2c is that Loeb will take those all four tarmac wins but the question is whether Marcus will be ahead or behind Sordo?

[jonas_mcrae]

will be very difficult to beat Seb and not say Sordo in tarmac I think fridays of these rallyes will be crucial for ford because if the citroens get some margin the firts day they will "just" drive in cruise mode to the finish for the nex two days(exept Spain were I think Sordo will atack with all his got!)
If marcus can get ahead or just behind the citroens on the first day it will be an interesting fight. Maybe making them make mistakes eg Portugal...
Really dont expect Mikko to challenge them there... maybe 4th?

[Finni]

Wilson has previously said interesting comments about asphalt form of the new Focus:

After Finland: “We are not underestimating the task ahead though at all. We know what Seb can do on basically his home rally [Germany], but judging by where we were last year when Marcus was leading Catalunya the improvements will make a bigger step forward on the asphalt [compared to gravel]."

After Greece: "I know Sebastien is looking forward to the Tarmac rallies, but we've got an evolution coming and it might not be plain sailing for him," Wilson explained. "I don't want to divulge details about the new car, Sébastien would get so depressed."

[L5->R5/CR]

Back then, it was against Xsara whereas now the opposition is in form of C4. My 2c is that Loeb will take those all four tarmac wins but the question is whether Marcus will be ahead or behind Sordo?



The C4 is faster but it seems like Loeb is also taking bigger risks (maybe the jagged edge is a little more ragged in the C4)?

It will be very interesting to see what happens at the tarmac rallies, especially if Marcus can keep touch on Friday and get into Loeb's head...

[WRXedUSA]

If the weather is variable, like it always is in Baumholder, and Marcus wins, that's the end of this discussion.

[N.O.T]

I don't think the evolution of ford gave marcus the win...local knowledge did as in previous years....Finland is far too special to draw conclusions on the car...i think we have to wait until we hit gravel again....Last year Loeb was close because he has driven the xsara for so many years he knew the cars behaviour by heart...this is his first year with the C4 which is a completely new car and no matter how good it is Loeb is still learning it.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I think that the Fords will do very well on tarmac and good fights between the C4's. Mikko hinting to a win on tarmac, as he did well not so long ago on one of the up coming events in a Focus!

[Timole]

Great overall battle between Mikko and Marcus, and i was pleased to see that the new evolution of ford´s wrc car has turned out to be successful. Hope that they can take some points of citroens on tarmac aswell!

[Glee]

For the first time in a very long time both Seb and Citroen are in an attack position. None of them are used to that.
I can’t remember the last time Seb vas outrun by two cars.

NORF is a special rally for Finns on home soil, but for the first time the Citroen team has to ask the question “what went wrong” where there are no obvious answer (as there are when Seb has an off and has a detailed answer of what went wrong).Probably it will have no effect, but it can destroy some of the harmony in “the most harmonic team in WRC”.

[jonkka]

I don't think the evolution of ford gave marcus the win...local knowledge did as in previous years....Finland is far too special to draw conclusions on the car...

I agree fully, except that at least the rally proved that evolution is a step ahead instead of one back. Important thing is that there were no glitches or hickups with the car, that gives confidence.

[Donney]

Now let's see how Loeb/Citroen cope with the necessity of attacking from behind. This championship is getting better and better.

[N.O.T]

I agree fully, except that at least the rally proved that evolution is a step ahead instead of one back. Important thing is that there were no glitches or hickups with the car, that gives confidence.

Yes, and when a car is reliable then it gives the feeling to the driver that he can care only for his driving and nothing more which is very important.

[Brother John]

If the weather is variable, like it always is in Baumholder, and Marcus wins, that's the end of this discussion.

IMO Not only Marcus but Mikko can also win in Germany. :s mokin:

[Tomi]

Ford seems to be close or on par with Citroen now, I think Loeb's risk tyrechoise on saturday morning shows that very well, hopefully it's better on the tar as well.

[Finni]

I don't think the evolution of ford gave marcus the win...local knowledge did as in previous years....Finland is far too special to draw conclusions on the car...i think we have to wait until we hit gravel again....Last year Loeb was close because he has driven the xsara for so many years he knew the cars behaviour by heart...this is his first year with the C4 which is a completely new car and no matter how good it is Loeb is still learning it.

I don't also think the Ford evolution gave Marcus the win but among many factors it very likely contributed to huge winning marginal over Seb. In this year gravel rallies Seb has been even more convincing with the C4 than he was with the Xsara (except Greece). That's why I thought before rally Finland that he could be even bigger threat for Marcus than last year.

That extra-minute between Marcus and Seb is very surprising. Ford's evolution hardly could be the only reason for the gap. Sardinia's off may have lowered Seb's confidence? In any case after Sardinia Marcus have had upperhand, in Sardinia they were pretty equal and before that in Argentina, Portugal and Mexico Seb was bit faster.

[Priorat]

Marcus always says that prefers dry tarmac than wet or icy.
Seb should take the win easily in Deutschland and Corsica but with a right tyre choice, Marcus can fight Sordo. Marcus has performed well in those two rallys before.
If Catalunya is dry Marcus can have a good chance to win.
Ireland will be the most difficult for Grönholm, where Sordo could be the fastest (team orders apart) thanks to his experience in the northern rallys in the spanish championship.

[Tomi]

It's good to remember that there is still a few gravel rounds left too, i would not be surprised if Mikko can finish ahead of Loeb in theese too, actually i would be a bit dissapointed if he would not, that strong show he gave in NORF.

[Mise]

This is from the ADAC Rallye Deutschland web page:

"A total of 146 special stages have been run in the first 8 WRC rallies of 2007. Sébastien Loeb set 57 fastest stage times, Marcus Grönholm has 36 and Mirkko Hirvonen (Ford) has 16. (Hahaa, Mirkko. Those Germans)"

Seb hasn't won even half of the stages. I would have thought he won them all. And Mikko has 16 wins. That´s a surprise for me.

Although Sebastien has won the rally every time, the margins have been very small. And if I remember correctly one of the German rallyes was won in the last stage. Marcus lost only ten secs or so.

I can't understand why this rally is always an easy win for Seb, since
Marcus has said that this is the tarmac rally he can win. That was many years ago, though.

[Finni]

Hugely interesting Timo Rautaianen's comment after rally of Argentina taken from mgr-forum:

"You know what? I am also worried about their performance. We are trying our maximum to find out those crucial fine tunings mainly in the differentials setup. We know that Citroen exits the corners more straigth and accelerates faster on loose surface.

I think we should be leading Seb by 12-14 points before Germany if we want to beat him this year. And that is not possible without him doing mistakes or our team doing a huge step with the car..."

So Seb has done a mistake and Ford has done a step.. I see that all those shortcomings which Timo mentioned are improved more or less in the new Focus.

[jso1985]

This is from the ADAC Rallye Deutschland web page:

"A total of 146 special stages have been run in the first 8 WRC rallies of 2007. Sébastien Loeb set 57 fastest stage times, Marcus Grönholm has 36 and Mirkko Hirvonen (Ford) has 16. (Hahaa, Mirkko. Those Germans)"

Seb hasn't won even half of the stages. I would have thought he won them all. And Mikko has 16 wins. That´s a surprise for me.

Although Sebastien has won the rally every time, the margins have been very small. And if I remember correctly one of the German rallyes was won in the last stage. Marcus lost only ten secs or so.

I can't understand why this rally is always an easy win for Seb, since
Marcus has said that this is the tarmac rally he can win. That was many years ago, though.

I think most of the non-Loeb stage wins were set on day 2 and 3 when Loeb was already leading with a quite good margin.

[gerrycrossey]

Marcus always says that prefers dry tarmac than wet or icy.
Seb should take the win easily in Deutschland and Corsica but with a right tyre choice, Marcus can fight Sordo. Marcus has performed well in those two rallys before.
If Catalunya is dry Marcus can have a good chance to win.
Ireland will be the most difficult for Grönholm, where Sordo could be the fastest (team orders apart) thanks to his experience in the northern rallys in the spanish championship.
I dont think Marcus will have as much of a problem in Ireland as you might think, we have a very very unique tarmac surface here. When Marcus competed in the Galway international to test he was on the pace straight away, this could be due to the amount of information M-Sport are provided by the private Irish teams. Loeb on the other hand struggled for the first day when he came to Donegal in June and had to send to France for gravel dampers in order to deal with the bumpy tarmac!

[Koz]

Maybe we all underestimate the fact that Subaru could also hinder Marcus in NZ and Japan.

I have a feeling the championship will be setteled in Wales...

[MJW]

Maybe we all underestimate the fact that Subaru could also hinder Marcus in NZ and Japan.

I have a feeling the championship will be setteled in Wales...

I agree - and I also think it will be on the Halfway stage on Saturday night December 1st. Otherwise known as Route 60 on Epynt, in the dark that stage will claim a "car or two"

[N.O.T]

It's good to remember that there is still a few gravel rounds left too, i would not be surprised if Mikko can finish ahead of Loeb in theese too, actually i would be a bit dissapointed if he would not, that strong show he gave in NORF.

I think that Hirvonen can be faster or at least on par with Loeb on the loose as well....but in order to do that he must drive flat out everywhere as he did in NORF and the only place that he has the confidence to do that is there....so i doubt he will drive with so many risks on the gravel rallies remaining....

[Tomi]

I think that Hirvonen can be faster or at least on par with Loeb on the loose as well....but in order to do that he must drive flat out everywhere as he did in NORF and the only place that he has the confidence to do that is there....so i doubt he will drive with so many risks on the gravel rallies remaining....

Better wait and see, difficult to say how on the limit the Fords was in NORF, Loeb gave up quite easily.

[amberie]

I agree - and I also think it will be on the Halfway stage on Saturday night December 1st. Otherwise known as Route 60 on Epynt, in the dark that stage will claim a "car or two"

The Focus may be a quicker car than before, but Marcus hates wet tarmac. And Loeb is almost always chooses the right tyres. Remember Marcus' comment about driving with **** in the pants in Germany last year?

Also, Loeb likes driving in the dark.

[MJW]

The Focus may be a quicker car than before, but Marcus hates wet tarmac. And Loeb is almost always chooses the right tyres. Remember Marcus' comment about driving with **** in the pants in Germany last year?

Also, Loeb likes driving in the dark.
I think that Petter / Phil wil take 30 seconds plus out of everyone on Halfway (Route 60) stage on Wales GB.

[Tomi]

The Focus may be a quicker car than before, but Marcus hates wet tarmac. And Loeb is almost always chooses the right tyres. Remember Marcus' comment about driving with **** in the pants in Germany last year?

Also, Loeb likes driving in the dark.

Last year before Germany the Focus was new and did not have a single test on wet tarmac, thats why they could not find any grip, now things are different. Loeb if offcourse the favorite in Germany now too, but it's good to remember that he is in a different situation now, quite far behind in points and has much pressure for sure.

[Koz]

Didnt Loeb say something last year like "i just have to finish second in the next [x] rallies" and marcus would have to win [x rallies ]to get some points ahead?
Seems the roles have been reversed.

[A.F.F.]

In order to beat Dani on tarmac Marcus have to be able to put also Seb under fight. I see that the gap between Sordo and Seb is almost non-existent on tarmac. Dani was only marginally slower than Seb in Monte - in the place where Seb makes his macig.


Waiting for the rally and witnessing Sordo's pace with our own eyes seem to be out of the question ?

[jonkka]

I think that Petter / Phil wil take 30 seconds plus out of everyone on Halfway (Route 60) stage on Wales GB.

Feel free. I do not, in fact I'd be surprised to see Petter even get that far. :eek:

[Doon]

I think that Petter / Phil wil take 30 seconds plus out of everyone on Halfway (Route 60) stage on Wales GB.

Just wondering, is 'Route 60' only part of Halfway cos it didn't seem very long on the Quinton.

Also Mikko can take points from Sordo almost certainly, as long as Mr Wilson allows it. Remember how quick he was in Spain 2005 in a 2 year old car. Depends how Ford are looking for the manufactures championship, if its close Wilson wont want to risk points, but if he needs to gamble to help Marcus, Hirvonen will probably be flying and possibly even challenge Loeb.

[Doon]

Oh forgot! None of the regulars will get the 10 points in Ireland......Genie on the Throttle ;)

.......i hope!

[Addicted]

Oh forgot! None of the regulars will get the 10 points in Ireland......Genie on the Throttle ;)

.......i hope!


If so, it would be big loss for Loeb

[Doon]

Well if any one can do it it'll be Eugene! Subaru's best chance of a win this year......

[Corny]

Well if any one can do it it'll be Eugene! Subaru's best chance of a win this year......

Is he going to drive on BFG's?

[A.F.F.]

Oh forgot! None of the regulars will get the 10 points in Ireland......Genie on the Throttle ;)

.......i hope!


And my name is Juha Kankkunen. :D

[Tomi]

Oh forgot! None of the regulars will get the 10 points in Ireland......Genie on the Throttle ;)

.......i hope!

Lol, funniest post this year sofar :)

[jonkka]

And my name is Juha Kankkunen. :D

Charmed!

[cut the b.s.]

Oh forgot! None of the regulars will get the 10 points in Ireland......Genie on the Throttle ;)

.......i hope!

Not a chance of Donnelly winning, and even if he did it wouldnt affect the top as Gronholm and Loeb would then likely be 8 and 6, who wins the rallys isnt that relevant to the drivers title, its where Loeb and Gronholm finish in respect to each other.

Has rallying really got so dull that since the 1/2 way point people have felt its predictable? This is 1 of the best fought titles for a while, my prediction is that it wont all be as predictable as people think ;-) enjoy the show :-D

[GallardoGT]

But what about the amount of gears they have in their cars?
I mean I hope Marcus has enough with five gears instead of six because tarmac is much more about revs than torgue I presume.
But I think with the big variation of stages and a lot of dirt always on the road Marco can win this time (rally of Germany).

[SubaruNorway]

I wont be suprised if Donnely is within the top 5 after the first day