Alonso prevents Hamilton from completing a crusial lap.

[RaikkonenRules]

In the closing moments of the 3rd quali session Alonso makes a change for tyres with Lewis pitting just behind. Alonso waits for a bit after the lollipop goes up with Lewis waiting behind him. Lewis is delayed and is unable to complete another flying lap in time. Alonso is able and takes pole away from Lewis while he is unable to respond. Was this delibarate tactics from Alonso?

Personally I think so and the FIA sholud definately take a look and that Alonso should be punished for such low unsporting tactics :mad:

[Daika]

same as schumacer at monaco.

clearly preventing lewis having another go.

[gofastandwynn]

Somewhere Schumacher is saying "Wow, thats a dick thing to do to a teammate..."

[F1boat]

Macca blatantly supports Hamilton as well as FIA, who send a crane to bring him back after a retirement.
But Alonso is smart. If they are playing dirty against him, so he will.
Bravo, Alonso!
P.S. - I won't be surprised if FIA punished him. They obviously want Hamilton to win. Maybe they will send a tank tomorow, to destroy rival cars.

[Turkeyneck]

Very unsporting by FA, methinks uncle Ron will be smacking someones bottom.

Lewis's face said it all in the post qually interview.

1st corner tomorrow could be VERY interesting

[Wasted Talent]

Disgraceful behaviour, I think we can now see what a big baby Alonso is.

When he realised how good Hamilton was earlier in the season, the pressure got to him and the mistakes started to come, eg Canada.

This was bad sportmanship and will not be accepted by Ron Dennis - Alonso has tried to put himself above the team - at the end of the day Alonso is an employee, Ron could always find another driver, Alonso needs a good car.............

WT

[Daika]

Asked afterwards by how much he missed doing a flying lap, Hamilton said: 'By about as much as I was held up'

exclude Alonso or send him back to the grid.

[F1boat]

Macca blatantly supports Hamilton as well as FIA, who send a crane to bring him back after a retirement.
But Alonso is smart. If they are playing dirty against him, so he will.
Bravo, Alonso!
P.S. - I won't be surprised if FIA punished him. They obviously want Hamilton to win. Maybe they will send a tank tomorow, to destroy rival cars.

Of course, I am extremely biased ;)

[tinchote]

:down:

It was really dirty on Alonso's part, and I'm surprised that McLaren allows that. But then, it shows that they are not as "sporting" as they say.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Moment of genius ;)

[F1boat]

Asked afterwards by how much he missed doing a flying lap, Hamilton said: 'By about as much as I was held up'

exclude Alonso or send him back to the grid.

I don't think that what Alonso did is clarified by FIA as punishable. Obviously rules should be changed to suit Hamilton. They were at Nurburgring, though.
Ron showed which driver he supports.
Thumbs down! Alonso should go back at Renault.

P.S. - Are you not loving this, guys? Hatred and tension between drivers, just like in good ol' days ;)

[Daika]

Moment of genius ;)

yep, that thought has crossed my mind. But on second thought what a CHEAT. Only Schumacher and Alonso have those present of minds to do something dirty like that.

[F1boat]

Maybe that's why they are world champions. Villeneuve did similar thing against Button in 2003, I think.

[Daika]

I don't think that what Alonso did is clarified by FIA as punishable. Obviously rules should be changed to suit Hamilton. They were at Nurburgring, though.
Ron showed which driver he supports.
Thumbs down! Alonso should go back at Renault.

P.S. - Are you not loving this, guys? Hatred and tension between drivers, just like in good ol' days ;)

Me think Hamilton is too much molded by RD to be mad. RD probably send some bodyguards to beat Alonso on behave of Hamilton

[Zico]

:down:

It was really dirty on Alonso's part, and I'm surprised that McLaren allows that. But then, it shows that they are not as "sporting" as they say.

Who says they allowed that? What are they supposed to do... put FA's car into auto pilot? I dont think Ron is going to be very happy about this.

The shlt hits the fan once again, c'mon FIA.. punish him like you did Schumi..

[VkmSpouge]

I find it hard to believe that Alonso would have done that in such a blatantly obvious fashion. If he did then it was a moment of extremely cold, calculated cunning towards his team mate and might well damage relations with his own team. Smart move by Alonso as there is no way he can be punished for this (no rules broken) but also very unsporting.

Of course it might all have been a gear selection problem :p :

[Valve Bounce]

We were talking about this in the chat room

[Mp3 Astra]

I don't think that was a team game. You could see they timed it well, they raised the lollipop as Hamilton came near the pitbox, but it was Alonso who waited. The mechanics were waving and shouting at him to move, but he didn't. He knew how long the outlap was and couldn't believe his luck when he saw Hamilton in his mirrors. Ron Dennis definately wasn't happy!

It was a very clever thing for Alonso to do, but it dosen't make it right at all. Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the pitlane.... the Spaniard strikes.

[Valve Bounce]

I find it hard to believe that Alonso would have done that in such a blatantly obvious fashion. If he did then it was a moment of extremely cold, calculated cunning towards his team mate and might well damage relations with his own team. Smart move by Alonso as there is no way he can be punished for this (no rules broken) but also very unsporting.

Of course it might all have been a gear selection problem :p :
Check it out on Planet F1

[tinchote]

Who says they allowed that? What are they supposed to do... put FA's car into auto pilot? I dont think Ron is going to be very happy about this.

The shlt hits the fan once again, c'mon FIA.. punish him like you did Schumi..

I'll be waiting for RD to say to the press that what FA did was wrong, and against the team's wishes. Until then, I have all the right to think that it was the team and not FA.

[F1boat]

Or he might have been having a pee. I remember an old story - a mechanic thought that in a Piquet car there was a leak.
It was not a leak.
If there are no rules broken, though, Alonso SHOULD NOT be punished.

[Daika]

Anybody can think of Fia rules that would punish Alonso?

[F=ma]

F1boat - yeah I am lovin every second of this. Drama off the track is good, but drama ON the track is so much better.

I can't wait for turn 1 tomorrow.

[Valve Bounce]

I'll be waiting for RD to say to the press that what FA did was wrong, and against the team's wishes. Until then, I have all the right to think that it was the team and not FA.

Some guys watched it on TV and said Ron was livid

[jens]

Damn Fernando. It was clearly a deliberate decision (he said in the press conference that it was team's decision, but I can't believe that one) to work against the team - yes I would say so. Hamilton was comfortably 3-4 tenhts quicker during the whole quali and then... I think Ron's face after the quali said it all...

Of course in my opinion I'm a bit biased too, because I'm supporting Lewis in that battle. But I haven't wished any bad luck to FA so far - tomorrow, on the contrary, I'm looking forward to see his car blowing up unless he loses to Lewis. :p : It would be nice if LH can take a revenge already after the start in Turn 1.

[VkmSpouge]

Check it out on Planet F1

All I'm seeing is an unfinished qualifying report there that says nothing new.

[F1boat]

Check it out on Planet F1

Planet F1 says that it is site about Lewis Hamilton. A fan-site can not be objective... nor it should be :)

[markabilly]

The name of the game is to COMPLETE the last fast lap as close to the end of the session as possible. Period.

Mclarunt sends out Hamie first, they then pull Hamie in behind FA, to give the final advantage to Hamie as they have done on several occaisions in Qualifying.

Well FA decides he wants the prime spot--who can blame him for that!!!!!!

And just got tired of being Number Two

must be because he is a recyled driver per RD's own words :rolleyes:

[F1boat]

Damn Fernando. It was clearly a deliberate decision (he said in the press conference that it was team's decision, but I can't believe that one) to work against the team - yes I would say so. Hamilton was comfortably 3-4 tenhts quicker during the whole quali and then... I think Ron's face after the quali said it all...

Of course in my opinion I'm a bit biased too, because I'm supporting Lewis in that battle. But I haven't wished any bad luck to FA so far - tomorrow, on the contrary, I'm looking forward to see his car blowing up unless he loses to Lewis. :p :

And I want Lewis to retire, I hate this smug, arrogant jerk :)
That's what I love about F1. Tension is high, emotions are intense, drama on and off track, bitter rivals try everything against each other...
Terrific :)
Of course, if Lewis have did this to Alonso, I'd be furious ;)

[F1MAN2007]

Macca blatantly supports Hamilton as well as FIA, who send a crane to bring him back after a retirement.
But Alonso is smart. If they are playing dirty against him, so he will.
Bravo, Alonso!
P.S. - I won't be surprised if FIA punished him. They obviously want Hamilton to win. Maybe they will send a tank tomorow, to destroy rival cars.


Totally agree with you man.

I knew that before European GP, Alonso had already declared to the Boss that he is now fighting for himself, they give him support or not, he is going flat out whatever will come out. And it was clear, in last GP showed that and now he continues. Can't blame him.

The way Ron threw away his headphone, and the headphone of Alonso's trainer, it shows who they want to win.

The FIA punish him or not, but I blame always Ron Denis.

[Priorat]

Yes it's a smart move and can't be punished by FIA. But can be punished by McLaren and then it is not that smart

[F1boat]

The name of the game is to COMPLETE the last fast lap as close to the end of the session as possible. Period.

Mclarunt sends out Hamie first, they then pull Hamie in behind FA, to give the final advantage to Hamie as they have done on several occaisions in Qualifying.

Well FA decides he wants the prime spot--who can blame him for that!!!!!!

And just got tired of being Number Two

must be because he is a recyled driver per RD's own words :rolleyes:

Alonso should go back to Renault and leave Optimus Prime to his vast experience with setup.
But until then we have one of the most bizzarse seasons in history.

[F1MAN2007]

yep, that thought has crossed my mind. But on second thought what a CHEAT. Only Schumacher and Alonso have those present of minds to do something dirty like that.

Staying in the car and wait the crane to push him was a legal incident by the FIA. :D

[F1boat]

Yes it's a smart move and can't be punished by FIA. But can be punished by McLaren and then it is not that smart

And if McLaren tirs that, Alonso can crash into Lewis. Ron is gonna enjoy that? As he enjoyed f***in Prost in 1988-9 and Montoya in 2005-6? What Montoya did in Indy, Alonso coould do tomorrow.

[VkmSpouge]

The way Ron threw away his headphone, and the headphone of Alonso's trainer, it shows who they want to win.

No I think that merely shows they wanted both cars being able to do one more flying lap.


Of course, if Lewis have did this to Alonso, I'd be furious ;)

I hope Hamilton would never do that to Alonso but then I had hoped Alonso would never do that to Hamilton.

[THE_LIBERATOR]

Undoubtedly Alonso should be sent to the back of the grid. Like someone else said, just like Schumacher at Monaco.

[F1boat]

Staying in the car and wait the crane to push him was a legal incident by the FIA. :D

You dare speak againt the young, talented, good, honest, likable super Lewis :(

Respect, bro :vader:

[veeten]

well, watch the race tomorrow. And remember that old saying about paybacks... ;)

[F1boat]

Undoubtedly Alonso should be sent to the back of the grid. Like someone else said, just like Schumacher at Monaco.

Because he broke which rule? :)
Don't worry, FIA will likely punsih him. They will support teh Talented kid.

[F1boat]

well, watch the race tomorrow. And remember that old saying about paybacks... ;)

Crash between tha McLarens, a win for Ferrari - cool :)

[markabilly]

Pulling FA in first on pit stops per Canada and USGP, thereby giving Hamie the advantage on one last quick lap on empty tanks, to keep him or put him in front.

Hamie should now know what FA has felt on a number of occaisions, thanks to MacLArunt team tactics

RD should be thrilled that he has two on the front row, but no, he is livid because his Number ONe, the one "with McLAren in his blood" is not on pole...well that says IT ALL

Hopefully it will rain bug time tommorrow, because then team tactics like that will not change the outcome as FA will blast on by in the wet :laugh: :laugh:

Mclarunt should be penalized for team tactics by putting FA asa number 2

[Zico]

I'll be waiting for RD to say to the press that what FA did was wrong, and against the team's wishes. Until then, I have all the right to think that it was the team and not FA.

Its possible that it could have been a decision made with assistence from FA's engineer, but thats not something I regard as a team decision.. according to some on Planet F1 , Ron walked up to the engineer and ripped his headphones off demanding an explanation. If anything, I'd say they or Ron at least, favours LH more than FA.

[F1boat]

Pulling FA in first on pit stops per Canada and USGP, thereby giving Hamie the advantage on one last quick lap on empty tanks, to keep him or put him in front.

Hamie should now know what FA has felt on a number of occaisions, thanks to MacLArunt team tactics

RD should be thrilled that he has two on the front row, but no, he is livid because his Number ONe, the one "with McLAren in his blood" is not on pole...well that says IT ALL

Hopefully it will rain bug time tommorrow, because then team tactics like that will not change the outcome as FA will blast on by in the wet :laugh: :laugh:

Mclarunt should be penalized for team tactics by putting FA asa number 2
I pray for rain as well. Even if FIA send 1 000 cranes to help the Talented One.

[F1MAN2007]

Some guys watched it on TV and said Ron was livid

I can tell you he was mad, I can't find appropriate words to describe this. :confused:

[F1boat]

Its possible that it could have been a decision made with assistence from FA's engineer, but thats not something I regard as a team decision.. according to some on Planet F1 , Ron walked up to the engineer and ripped his headphones off demanding an explanation. If anything, I'd say they or Ron at least, favours LH more than FA.

Of course - Ron supports the one with McLaren blood instead of boring, recycled hobbit. Pity that the hobbit seems to have experienced this last year against the Great One and still won the championship...

[truefan72]

classless and unsporting.
Whatever little respect I had for Alonso's abilites have gone out the winbdow with this fiendish tactic. Very Schumacher like.
So you can't beat him fair & square so you resort to deviant tactics to accomplish your goals. Bravo Alonso.

Hamilton easily would have taken pole, He did his lap on a heavier fuel load severla laps prior and was again on the softer compound ready to go. FA could only manage to be a 1/10th faster than him.

His true colors have always been known to many in the paddock, but todays actions are all the evidence anyone needs to dislike this guy. a 2 time lucky champion who's a cry baby and a cheater. MS as bad as he was would never have done that to his own teammate. He would have gone out on Sunday and beaten him to submission.

I'm curious to what RD, McClaren and the FIA will do. These actions are in the same category as MS in Monaco and should merit a demotion to the back of the grid. He cleary impeded another driver ( teamate or not) from attempting a timed lap. The lollipop guy lifted, the team waved him on, and he did not move. Plus he was also blocking Kimi during the first part of Q3

This spells the end of any collaboration or friendship on their part. Neither will give an inch anymore. The best thing for RD to do is to let them go at it for the rest of the season. They have pretty much wrapped up the WCC anyway.

[markabilly]

Livid, more like totally out of control---good thing FA's engineer has more backbone than scott speed, if Tost had done that to Scott, then no doubt that scottie would have peed his kelts......

See that is what amazes me...his driver gets a pole, and And does not end up in thrid place which could have happened with heidfledts Beemer right behind...and he is livid, grabbing the headphones off the engineer almost before the lap is completed...and then walikn him back to the pits, the engineer lookin like a sad little school boy and RD like poppa getting ready to spank.

That says it all--

[markabilly]

Livid, more like totally out of control---good thing FA's engineer has more backbone than scott speed, if Tost had done that to Scott, then no doubt that scottie would have peed his kelts......

See that is what amazes me...his driver gets a pole, and And does not end up in thrid place which could have happened with heidfledts Beemer right behind...and he is livid, grabbing the headphones off the engineer almost before the lap is completed...and then walikn him back to the pits, the engineer lookin like a sad little school boy and RD like poppa getting ready to spank.

That says it all--
Right there on TV

[Zico]

Hobbit? lol..

Nah.. I dont favour FA over LH or vice versa. Clever yes.. but I hate to see unsporting behaviour like this, what he did could potentially have worked against the team by putting LH's 2nd position on the grid at risk to Heidfeld or Kimi in the dying seconds. For that reason alone Ron should be furious.. and rightly so.

[MikeWRC]

On the coverage here in the UK, we saw an angry Ron speaking to someone who was apparanty Alonso's trainer. This person had been sitting at the pit wall.
Looking at the replay, it seems Alonso was looking across at the crew on the pit wall during the time between the lolipop being raised and him going. I wonder if his trainer had somehow worked out the right time to go (in terms of holding up Hamilton but giving Alonso enough time to get to the flag) and gave him a signal?
I'm probably completely wrong but the way Ron was acting it looked like he thought this trainer guy was directly involved in the thing. He was basically pulling the guy by the scruff of his neck to take him away somewhere - presumably the motorhome.

I'm not sure what to think about this whole thing. I'm a bit more biased towards Hamilton and it was an underhand tactic but, at the same time, the move did have a touch of genius!
There's one thing for sure, I can't wait to see what happens tomorrow!

[VkmSpouge]

Livid, more like totally out of control---good thing FA's engineer has more backbone than scott speed, if Tost had done that to Scott, then no doubt that scottie would have peed his kelts......

See that is what amazes me...his driver gets a pole, and And does not end up in thrid place which could have happened with heidfledts Beemer right behind...and he is livid, grabbing the headphones off the engineer almost before the lap is completed...and then walikn him back to the pits, the engineer lookin like a sad little school boy and RD like poppa getting ready to spank.

I don't see why it would amaze you. Alonso for whatever reason had just cost Hamilton a chance of another flying lap. I suspect Ron Dennis would have been cheesed off if this had been a mistake or on purpose. Once Dennis has calmed down though I'm sure he'll fully appreciate the position his team finds itself in with a front row start, Heidfeld between them and Raikkonen and Massa all the way down in 14th.

[Ian McC]

Of course - Ron supports the one with McLaren blood instead of boring, recycled hobbit. Pity that the hobbit seems to have experienced this last year against the Great One and still won the championship...

What's this, how many rubbish posts can you get onto one thread?

[F1MAN2007]

No I think that merely shows they wanted both cars being able to do one more flying lap..

But it was quiet clear that both cars were already toping the grid, maybe it would have been good for Lewis to finish the lap so the strategy can work well tommorow.

[VkmSpouge]

But it was quiet clear that both cars were already toping the grid, maybe it would have been good for Lewis to finish the lap so the strategy can work well tommorow.

True, they would have wanted that extra lap's worth of fuel credit as well as a chance of setting an even faster lap time.

[truefan72]

Its possible that it could have been a decision made with assistence from FA's engineer, but thats not something I regard as a team decision.. according to some on Planet F1 , Ron walked up to the engineer and ripped his headphones off demanding an explanation. If anything, I'd say they or Ron at least, favours LH more than FA.

No, he was mad at the embarrassment these actions brought to the team, and the fact that these type of shenanigans are not to be rewarded or tolerated. He would have done the same with the roles reveresed. I remember RD showing all sorts of concenr to Alonso's needs at several GP's. In fact for the most part of the first few races, the entire operation was engineered around Alonso. he received preferential Qualifying, pit and race strategy. It soon became clear that LH was a force to reckon and the team couldn't hold him back, then he took over the WDC lead and McClaren really had to play it fair. That's when FA started Bitching, panicking, pressing and complaining to anyone who would hear. He has never had to face such stiff competion from a temmate and couldn't even handle it.

Look at Massa and Raikkonen, they duke it out in the race, compete hard against one another and succeed in that area.

If Alonso though the team was against him ( stupidity) I wonder how they feel about him now. As he knows , they werent against him ( just didn't/couldn't devote 100% of their energy no him anymore) but now they just might.

[F1MAN2007]

You dare speak againt the young, talented, good, honest, likable super Lewis :(

Respect, bro :vader:

Yeah bro, but as I said and I will say all the time, what is happening between the two guys is not their fault. It is RON's big mistake and now he gonna enjoy what he wanted.

I don't speak against the young, he showed the pace and in future he will be the king out there. But people here ignore that there is a cold war in the team and it is obvious now clear every one can see that.

So let it be like it is, if there is an FIA article punishing this exactly, so Alonso has to be punished. But the credit for him is that he is experienced in the business, and though he knew what he was doing in blocking Lewis. That is the point.

[markabilly]

classless and unsporting.
Whatever little respect I had for Alonso's abilites have gone out the winbdow with this fiendish tactic. Very Schumacher like.
So you can't beat him fair & square so you resort to deviant tactics to accomplish your goals. Bravo Alonso.



MS as bad as he was would never have done that to his own teammate. He would have gone out on Sunday and beaten him to submission.

I'm curious to what RD, McClaren and the FIA will do. These actions are in the same category as MS in Monaco and should merit a demotion to the back of the grid. He cleary impeded another driver ( teamate or not) from attempting a timed lap. The lollipop guy lifted, the team waved him on, and he did not move. Plus he was also blocking Kimi during the first part of Q3

This spells the end of any collaboration or friendship on their part. Neither will give an inch anymore. The best thing for RD to do is to let them go at it for the rest of the season. They have pretty much wrapped up the WCC anyway.

Spoke like a true Maclarunt fan, now drink your Koolaid....

first MS was the team principal at Ferrari, and would NOT have been thro all the stuff dumped on FA
Me I sort of liked FA cause he beat MS, because I was and remain a big time fan of MS, to be both team principal (in principle) at ferrari and will wdc so many times, and anyone who could beat MS deserves some respect

what I found offensive about Hamie was not the man nor his talent, but how everyone was going gagagag over him when it was far more car than any talent--historically there is a reason why experience counts with drivers---it was cause if the choice was between and average car with a great driver or a great car and avaerage driver, go with the great driver...but no more...

As to deviant tactics thos have been imposed by Maclarunt from the beginng for the benefit of Hamie, pure and simple--just not as obvious....wonder if FA got fired by Maclarunt, could he jump over and replace Raik.? then we would see the real racing start....that is where FA should have gone, but hindsight is 20/20

[Ian McC]

I would guess there is nothing illegal about what he did, I doubt any punishment will happen. Alonso lost a lot of respect today, that was weak from someone who is a double WDC, it shows he feels he can't beat him on the track.

[F1MAN2007]

....I hope Hamilton would never do that to Alonso but then I had hoped Alonso would never do that to Hamilton.

So what happened in Canada GP when Alonso was in the rear wing of Lewis and attempting to overtake him? What Lewis did on the braking line? Some would say it was normal, but for me if a driver behind you come to the same level with your car, for me, it means that the driver who were in front is lapped and should give a way.

[truefan72]

Spoke like a true Maclarunt fan, now drink your Koolaid....

first MS was the team prinicpal at Ferrari, and would NOT have been thro all the stuff dumped on FA
Me I sort of liked FA cause he beat MS, couls shoot the fingers and drive backwards at monaco because I was and remain a big time fan of MS, to be both team principla (in principle) at ferrari and will wdc so many times

what I found offensive about Hamie was not the man nor his talent, but how everyone was going gagagag over him when it was far more car than any talent--historically there is a reason why experience counts with drivers---it was cause if the choice was between and average car with a great driver or a great car and avaerage driver, go with the great driver...but no more...

As to deviant tactics thos have been imposed by Maclarunt from the beginng for the benefit of Hamie, pur and simple--just not as obvious....wonder if FA got fired by Maclarunt, could he jump over and replace Raik.? then we would see the real racing start....

why are you still here?
your hatred is obvious, your vulgar manner lends you no credibility. You revel in your own ability to come up with "catchy" nicknames and seldom string a coherent sentence together. Try arguing points without insulting others. From now on I will choose to simply ignore youre comments.

[Zico]

No, he was mad at the embarrassment these actions brought to the team, and the fact that these type of shenanigans are not to be rewarded or tolerated. He would have done the same with the roles reveresed. I remember RD showing all sorts of concenr to Alonso's needs at several GP's. In fact for the most part of the first few races, the entire operation was engineered around Alonso. he received preferential Qualifying, pit and race strategy. It soon became clear that LH was a force to reckon and the team couldn't hold him back, then he took over the WDC lead and McClaren really had to play it fair. That's when FA started Bitching, panicking, pressing and complaining to anyone who would hear. He has never had to face such stiff competion from a temmate and couldn't even handle it.

Look at Massa and Raikkonen, they duke it out in the race, compete hard against one another and succeed in that area.

If Alonso though the team was against him ( stupidity) I wonder how they feel about him now. As he knows , they werent against him ( just didn't/couldn't devote 100% of their energy no him anymore) but now they just might.

Maybe.. but I'd say he'd more likely to have been mad at FA for putting LH's 2nd position at risk to Nick and Kimi in the dying seconds. Selfish and not in the teams best interests.

[truefan72]

Maybe.. but I'd say he'd more likely to have been mad at FA for putting LH's 2nd position at risk to Nick and Kimi in the dying seconds. Selfish and not in the teams best interests.


that is true. I didn't think of that.

Apparently, reports are out that the trainer was signaling Alonso when to go irrespective of the teams orders. This incident is getting more dicey.

[F1MAN2007]

On the coverage here in the UK, we saw an angry Ron speaking to someone who was apparanty Alonso's trainer. This person had been sitting at the pit wall.
Looking at the replay, it seems Alonso was looking across at the crew on the pit wall during the time between the lolipop being raised and him going. I wonder if his trainer had somehow worked out the right time to go (in terms of holding up Hamilton but giving Alonso enough time to get to the flag) and gave him a signal?
I'm probably completely wrong but the way Ron was acting it looked like he thought this trainer guy was directly involved in the thing. He was basically pulling the guy by the scruff of his neck to take him away somewhere - presumably the motorhome.

I'm not sure what to think about this whole thing. I'm a bit more biased towards Hamilton and it was an underhand tactic but, at the same time, the move did have a touch of genius!
There's one thing for sure, I can't wait to see what happens tomorrow!

For what I have seen, particularly in Europe GP, Ron doesn't have any more close control to Alonso. Alonso's trainer is the only guy close to Alonso who can talk to him (Like Anthony would intervene betwen Ron and Lewis) easily and who Alonso can understand.

So, Ron can't talk to Alonso closely that is why he has to relay on Alonso's trainer. And this is a dramatic situation for the team.

[DBell]

Undoubtedly Alonso should be sent to the back of the grid. Like someone else said, just like Schumacher at Monaco.

Schumacher stopped on track and blocked it. affecting everyone who was on the track. Was Alonso's tatic unsporting? IMO, yes. Was it illegal? Don't know the rules well enough to say. But it was a very different situation from Micheal in Monoco.

[Roamy]

Damn I missed it but finally some life into this forum. We the departure of MS and JV this place has been like the daily news in Iceland. Thank you McLaren for again providing us with true excitement. Who needs passing when you have Ron Dennis controlling you quality of entertainment. Wow what a great year. Blocking, Spying, Cheating just another reason why the pinnacle stays.

[edv]

Looks like FA's physiotherapist may soon the the services of a physiotherapist!

[F1MAN2007]

that is true. I didn't think of that.

Apparently, reports are out that the trainer was signaling Alonso when to go irrespective of the teams orders. This incident is getting more dicey.

Because he is the only person he trust there for the moment. What is wrong then?! :D

[Grrrr...]

What about this:

Räikkönen passed Lewis on his last fast lap and then crossed the finish line with nine more seconds left in Q3. Was that enough time for Lewis? Did he deliberately slow down?

Your thoughts?

[truefan72]

As someone said in the Hungary GP thread, Alonos himself has caused a civil war in McClaren. He has come in and polarized the team in a very unhealthy manner. These actions clearly show that LH has gotten the better of him. Soft or harder compound tyres, FA had nothing for LH today, so he resorted to unsporting and classless cheating tactic to gain his advantage.

Very sad for a 2 time WDC to behave in this manner. Shameful actually

[edv]

Judging by the timing on the TV, Lewis would have needed a lap of 1:16 just to make it to the line for his flyer, hence impossible.

[Ian McC]

McLaren really didn't need this, with the spying row dragging on and now one of the drivers trying to sabotage the other I expect Ron will be getting even more sleepless nights.

Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall after the press conference.

[F1MAN2007]

One day, Martin Brundle told to James Allen : " Formula one is about giving and receiving pain."

[Zico]

One day, Martin Brundle told to James Allen : " Formula one is about giving and receiving pain."

Im sure he didnt mean... by cheating.

[F1MAN2007]

Im sure he didnt mean... by cheating.

Who knows what he was refering to?! But it seems you knew what he was talking about. :D

[markabilly]

why are you still here?
your hatred is obvious, your vulgar manner lends you no credibility. You revel in your own ability to come up with "catchy" nicknames and seldom string a coherent sentence together. Try arguing points without insulting others. From now on I will choose to simply ignore youre comments.

Change your name to Hamiefan or MacleraNUT---truefan is a bit misleading, now drink your koolaid and call momma and dadda... .. you been the one attacking others, just dump the truth on you, and listen to you squawk......

Rd did not like the fact that FA wanted the last flier..perfectly understandable from RD's point of view of wanting Hamie to be number one---why do you think Hamie was first out...and then the mechanics screwup with the tire warmers...or the blocking by Hamie at the USGP, or the short braaking at the Canadian...to say nothing of pit stop strategy...if FA can win over ham at this team, that will say that FA has some enormous talent.... :D

[F1MAN2007]

Im sure he didnt mean... by cheating.

Can you give us a link which back up your statement? Thank you

[markabilly]

As someone said in the Hungary GP thread, Alonos himself has caused a civil war in McClaren. He has come in and polarized the team in a very unhealthy manner. These actions clearly show that LH has gotten the better of him. Soft or harder compound tyres, FA had nothing for LH today, so he resorted to unsporting and classless cheating tactic to gain his advantage.

Very sad for a 2 time WDC to behave in this manner. Shameful actually
talk about name calling...payback hurts...hahahaand LH did have time for one more flyer, else why did RK pass him

[markabilly]

What about this:

Räikkönen passed Lewis on his last fast lap and then crossed the finish line with nine more seconds left in Q3. Was that enough time for Lewis? Did he deliberately slow down?

Your thoughts?

yeah it might have been real tight, but doable---but he gave up...i thought he was waiting on FA to slow up FA...but did not get the chance.... :eek:

[F1MAN2007]

...if FA can win over ham at this team, that will say that FA has some enormous talent.... :D

Already he is doing all the business himself and analysing all the data available to him and knows what is the best time for him to go out as no one to trust there. I liked this from him!!!! It is genious, whatever people here that it is cheating (without any evidence to back this), but FA has enormous talent....!!!!

Lewis said yesterday :" ......I still see Fernando as the main threat because he is my team mate and regning world champion. He is the guy who sets the benchmark and the guy to beat."

He agrees that even if he is leading the championship he still has to beat Alonso!!!! Haaaa!!! That is another credit to FA. :D

[Zico]

Can you give us a link which back up your statement? Thank you


No, I cant, As it was you who Quoted Brundle, can YOU give us a link to back up your suggestion that he meant using foul play.. if that was what you were suggesting?

I bet you cant either, so why post these silly requests?

[Mihai]

Yes, Alonso did a 'Schumacher@Monaco.2006' on Hamilton.

I saw time ticking away as Alonso was chatting to his crew in the pits, while those retard Romanian commentators were bubbling about something else.

[Ian McC]

Change your name to Hamiefan or MacleraNUT---truefan is a bit misleading, now drink your koolaid and call momma and dadda... .. you been the one attacking others, just dump the truth on you, and listen to you squawk......

Looks like you lost your argument there, why else would you resort to this kind of crap, because you haven't anything to say?

[F1MAN2007]

No, I cant, Can you give me a link to back up your suggestion that Brundle meant using foul play.. if that was what you were suggesting?

I bet you cant either, so why post these silly requests?

I didn't say that Brundele meant using foul play... readi it agin carefully, but what you said is that you knew what he meant.

For me I posted that phrase, to say that what Hamilton has done so far, now he is paying back of it. That is all. Otherwise ask me the link of what I am saying and I will always give it to you. :D

You said cheating, so let us know which regulation he cheated not only from your feeling. And if you have read all this thread, I said if there any regulation that Alonso failed to respect, then a punishment is fair and I am quite happy with that. But if no regulation, so how to justify cheating?! :rolleyes:

[F1MAN2007]

"The team always decides when I have to get moving," Alonso told Spanish reporters after qualifying.

"I know it looks that way because he lost the opportunity to do his lap, but even if I had left those five seconds earlier he wouldn't have made it anyway.

"I think the calculations were wrong. I'm sorry for him but I leave the pits when I'm told to."

Source : http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61339

[VkmSpouge]

Except the lollipop was up for 10 seconds before Alonso left. Perhaps there was a mis-communication within the team.


So what happened in Canada GP when Alonso was in the rear wing of Lewis and attempting to overtake him? What Lewis did on the braking line? Some would say it was normal, but for me if a driver behind you come to the same level with your car, for me, it means that the driver who were in front is lapped and should give a way.

Other than at the first and second corners Alonso never got close to Hamilton at Montreal. I believe the incident you refer to was at Indianapolis, which was discussed well enough at the time (by all means find the thread and read through it) and has nothing to do with the current subject at hand.


Räikkönen passed Lewis on his last fast lap and then crossed the finish line with nine more seconds left in Q3. Was that enough time for Lewis? Did he deliberately slow down?

Raikkonen passed Alonso on his last lap and not Hamilton.

[Marbles]

classless and unsporting.
Whatever little respect I had for Alonso's abilites have gone out the winbdow with this fiendish tactic. Very Schumacher like.
So you can't beat him fair & square so you resort to deviant tactics to accomplish your goals. Bravo Alonso.

Indeed a True(motorsport)fan. That sums it up in a nutshell. Please allow me to add something.

In the ever more warped world we live, many people here continue to confuse being underhanded with genuis; just as they did in the days of MS. Days I'd thought had long passed. The more one mistakes being unsporting with being smart, the more one comes off looking like an IDIOT. Because I bought my computer and my neighbour stole his from work does not make him smarter than me.

I can't say that Dennis would have been as upset if the roles were reversed but I'm fairly certain that his sensibilities would have been offended. McLaren may have pre-race deals and preferred drivers but they don't have time for this stuff. Hamilton would not have got a free pass if he had pulled something equally devious. He may now though.

Would someone who knows for certain please clarify something. Who was the man that Dennis grabbed and what was his role in this. He has been identified by media and people here as the following:

A) A Mercedes rep
B) Alonso's boardman
C) Alonso's agent
D) Alonso's engineer
E) Alonso's trainer
F) All of the above

[Bezza]

Alonso won't get penalised because there are no rules against such action. No other team other than his own was affected! I'm pretty sure he knew what he was doing was, yes, naughty, but not illegal. Therefore if its not illegal then its not really dirty tactics, just using the rules to the full, like Hamilton did by getting whinched back on track at Nurburgring.

However, this will have reprecussions. The McLaren team is now well and truly split in half, the drivers won't be liking each other despite what they may say in public, and you've then got Ferrari all over them off track with the court cases.

Hamilton will want to lead into turn one, and so will Alonso. We could have fireworks. I may put a bet on Heidfeld for victory...

[Jefe Máximo]

:down:

It was really dirty on Alonso's part, and I'm surprised that McLaren allows that. But then, it shows that they are not as "sporting" as they say.


Rich, coming from a Schmacher fan.

But true.

As for McLaren, they'll handle it a lot better than Ferrari handled (read orchestrated) Schumacher's antics.

[Zico]

I didn't say that Brundele meant using foul play... readi it agin carefully, but what you said is that you knew what he meant.

For me I posted that phrase, to say that what Hamilton has done so far, now he is paying back of it. That is all. Otherwise ask me the link of what I am saying and I will always give it to you. :D

You said cheating, so let us know which regulation he cheated not only from your feeling. And if you have read all this thread, I said if there any regulation that Alonso failed to respect, then a punishment is fair and I am quite happy with that. But if no regulation, so how to justify cheating?! :rolleyes:


What I said was "Im sure" which means just that... which is, in my mind I am sure he didnt mean that.
Whether technically he can be found guilty of cheating I have doubts but Im sure this thread wouldnt exist if the fans on here felt he hadn't cheated LH to another flying lap. Maybe the term unsporting is a more accurate description of his antics. Im not on here to argue about technicalities and I'm sure you know what I meant, so how about we put this down to a mis-understanding eh?

[Marbles]

"The team always decides when I have to get moving," Alonso told Spanish reporters after qualifying.

"I know it looks that way because he lost the opportunity to do his lap, but even if I had left those five seconds earlier he wouldn't have made it anyway.

"I think the calculations were wrong. I'm sorry for him but I leave the pits when I'm told to."

Source : http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61339

"That's muh story and I'm a' stickin' to it!"

A picture is worth a thousand words. He made no admission of wrong doing in the post race interview but fidgeting more than usual and not making solid eye contact with anyone, he certainly looked contrite.

[markabilly]

Looks like you lost your argument there, why else would you resort to this kind of crap, because you haven't anything to say?

You just hate the truth.... now you too can call ronnie, and tell him you have maclarunt in the blood, now hush up and drink your koolaide

Too bad about FA being stuck on a team that treats him like crap....the odd thing is that while I had some respect for FA, I was never a fan.
But now...anyway it don't matter, because RD has already been pulling stuff on FA, such as early pit stops and stuff....and all one has to do is compare FA's driving style in the Maclarunt to it over the years, to see that it does not suit him perfectly.

Now it is one thing to be WDC when the other drivers are competing against you, but an even bigger accomplishment when your own team is agianst you......so I do not know what all you crybabies are so upset, you RD will be putting the fix in on FA, just like he has been doing along....

[Ian McC]

"I think the calculations were wrong. I'm sorry for him but I leave the pits when I'm told to."


That would be when the lollipop goes up, which he didn't respond to. There wasn't much time left, even for himself, he should of been ready to get away as soon as possible, but he didn't.

[Ian McC]

You just hate the truth.... now you too can call ronnie, and tell him you have maclarunt in the blood, now hush up and drink your koolaide

Too bad about FA being stuck on a team that treats him like crap....the odd thing is that while I had some respect for FA, I was never a fan.
But now...anyway it don't matter, because RD has already been pulling stuff on FA, such as early pit stops and stuff....and all one has to do is compare FA's driving style in the Maclarunt to it over the years, to see that it does not suit him perfectly.

Now it is one thing to be WDC when the other drivers are competing against you, but an even bigger accomplishment when your own team is agianst you......so I do not know what all you crybabies are so upset, you RD will be putting the fix in on FA, just like he has been doing along....

Like I said, nothing sensible there then.

[markabilly]

Indeed a True(motorsport)fan. That sums it up in a nutshell. Please allow me to add something.



I can't say that Dennis would have been as upset if the roles were reversed but I'm fairly certain that his sensibilities would have been offended. McLaren may have pre-race deals and preferred drivers but they don't have time for this stuff. Hamilton would not have got a free pass if he had pulled something equally devious. He may now though.



Hamilton does not need to do it, he already had RD doing it for him at the USGP and Canada with pit stop strategy...RD just wants to be in control of who gets screwed, and he has already said how much he likes Hamiton (and what a major crown, to have a Brit rookie win the WDC in his Maclarunt)

to wit, the article where he referes to Hamilton as having McLaren in his blood and drivers coming from other teams as "reycled"

FA might beat all the others but he will not beat his own team out of creating glory for Hamie and Mclaren..unless it rains at every race.......that is certain...

[Whyzars]

I can't see how Fernando Alonso can possibly drive in the race tomorrow...

It will take a day and a half to organise a team of proctologists.

Another day for the specialist nurses to give the enema's.

A couple of hours of occupational therapy whilst infusing the 3 litres of KY gel.

And lastly an hour for an entire fire crew to hose the off Ron Dennis' shoe.

Yep, I'll be very surprised if Fernando Alonso drives tomorrow.

[markabilly]

Like I said, nothing sensible there then.
Drink up, cry baby...you should be happy and relieved because this all shows where RD sympathies really goes......and now openly demonstrates what was secretly intended, that lewis will be the next WDC--the one chance of a lifetime to go down in history that RD does NOT intend to see slip through his fingers........

so go celebrate with true(hamie)fan...and just practice your "please do not let it rain dance" for all the rest of the races....

[Daika]

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2640622,00.html

Under investigating by stewards.
Punish him hard very hard please!

[Jefe Máximo]

What crawled up your butt then, markabilly?

[ICKE]

I dont know about you guys but Alonso kinda makes me smile. My hate towarwds Mclaren is at a record high right now - as a Ferrari fan. And FA giving the finger to Ron Dennis, Hamilton and the whole of England makes me chuckle.

Remember how Alonso was stunned that Hamilton was allowed to continue his race two weeks ago?

I suppose Fernando thought :

"Ok, Mclaren is favouring their own golden boy and the powers that be are doing anything they can in order to make a new superstar.They want to play the dirty game, we´ll lets play it. "

:D :D Vamos !!

[markabilly]

I can't see how Fernando Alonso can possibly drive in the race tomorrow...

It will take a day and a half to organise a team of proctologists.

Another day for the specialist nurses to give the enema's.

A couple of hours of occupational therapy whilst infusing the 3 litres of KY gel.

And lastly an hour for an entire fire crew to hose the off Ron Dennis' shoe.

Yep, I'll be very surprised if Fernando Alonso drives tomorrow.


Shoe? i would think head...no you are right, you are referring to FA and and not Ham..sorry, i ever doubted you

[tyreman2]

Whats the problem?A brilliant racing driver see's an opportunity to get himself ahead of another and with amazing prescence of mind he succeeds.Team mates or not their is only one winner of the Drivers championship,as long as they keep on finishing 1 and 2 Mclaren should be happy.

If they didn't want them to pit together they should'nt have held Alonso in the first stop.
For me the worst thing that came from it,is that it is now obvious who Ron favours.

[Turkeyneck]

Hamilton does not need to do it, he already had RD doing it for him at the USGP and Canada with pit stop strategy...RD just wants to be in control of who gets screwed, and he has already said how much he likes Hamiton (and what a major crown, to have a Brit rookie win the WDC in his Maclarunt)

to wit, the article where he referes to Hamilton as having McLaren in his blood and drivers coming from other teams as "reycled"

FA might beat all the others but he will not beat his own team out of creating glory for Hamie and Mclaren..unless it rains at every race.......that is certain...

You forgot to mention about drinking Koolaid

[Zico]

Drink up, cry baby...you should be happy and relieved because this all shows where RD sympathies really goes......and now openly demonstrates what was secretly intended, that lewis will be the next WDC--the one chance of a lifetime to go down in history that RD does NOT intend to see slip through his fingers........

so go celebrate with true(hamie)fan...and just practice your "please do not let it rain dance" for all the rest of the races....

Change the record, this one keeps repeating itself.. oh I stand corrected, maybe not, forgot about the Koolaid :D

[Ian McC]

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2640622,00.html

Under investigating by stewards.
Punish him hard very hard please!

He clearly didn't go when the lollipop went up, wonder if they will do anything about it?

[markabilly]

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2640622,00.html

Under investigating by stewards.
Punish him hard very hard please!

Just what is the BIG DEAL?????You all, even morons like tur hamie fan72 should be able to see, with your own eyes, where RD's heart is by his TV behavior..as though reading his lips were not enuff from that article.... :kiss:

If you had any doubts before, they should have been put to rest by today's latest RD behavior, so go celebrate and drink your koolaide, the WDC is in hamie's bag already :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :kiss:

[Marbles]

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2640622,00.html

Under investigating by stewards.
Punish him hard very hard please!

As unsporting as I think it was of Alonso I don't think this is an area that FIA should get involved in. If you punish Alonso you will also punish an innocent McLaren.

If FIA gets into the politics of a team, where will they stop? Are they going to start checking setups and strategy to see if one driver was favoured over another?

[Whyzars]

Shoe? i would think head...no you are right, you are referring to FA and and not Ham..sorry, i ever doubted you

Huh?

Ron Dennis will put his foot up Alonso's sh#thole because he has sullied the McLaren name. In fact if the WCC wasn't so hard to win then McLaren could pull Alonso out of the race tomorrow to prove that they don't tolerate any crap.

Regardless of the stewards inquiry if McLaren learns that Alonso did this deliberately then he'll be looking for a new seat at the end of the year.

Fernando Alonso is no Michael Schumacher and is thus expendable.

[markabilly]

As unsporting as I think it was of Alonso I don't think this is an area that FIA should get involved in. If you punish Alonso you will also punish an innocent McLaren.

If FIA gets into the politics of a team, where will they stop? Are they going to start checking setups and strategy to see if one driver was favoured over another?



If they do, they might see a consistent pattern of behavior at Maclarenut from last six races.....so all those truhamie fans should be celebrating and comforted to know that RD will never ever let FA win the WDC over hamie.
Be happy

[Whyzars]

As unsporting as I think it was of Alonso I don't think this is an area that FIA should get involved in. If you punish Alonso you will also punish an innocent McLaren.

If FIA gets into the politics of a team, where will they stop? Are they going to start checking setups and strategy to see if one driver was favoured over another?

It was a racing incident under Green Flag conditions - they must investigate it and penalise drivers accordingly.

[Ian McC]

Just what is the BIG DEAL?????You all, even morons like tur hamie fan72 should be able to see, with your own eyes, where RD's heart is by his TV behavior..as though reading his lips were not enuff from that article.... :kiss:

If you had any doubts before, they should have been put to rest by today's latest RD behavior, so go celebrate and drink your koolaide, the WDC is in hamie's bag already :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :kiss:

Seems to me Ron wanted to get both his cars out onto the final flying lap, he was pi**ed because one of his drivers was trying to stop the other from doing that. The only bias here is how you would read that.

[markabilly]

Huh?

Ron Dennis will put his foot up Alonso's sh#thole because he has sullied the McLaren name. In fact if the WCC wasn't so hard to win then McLaren could pull Alonso out of the race tomorrow to prove that they don't tolerate any crap.

Regardless of the stewards inquiry if McLaren learns that Alonso did this deliberately then he'll be looking for a new seat at the end of the year.

Fernando Alonso is no Michael Schumacher and is thus expendable.


I can think of one or two teams that, based solely on driving talent, would snap him up in a heartbeat

[ICKE]

The powers that be are trying to fix this championship so that Hamilton wins. It has been pretty obvious for a while now, with the FIA decision, the crane and how everything works for his benefit.

I say, good for Alonso. Use whatever tactics you need in order to win. I am a tifoso but should Ferrari not win, I would cherish to see Alonso as a champion so that he can give the finger to the axis of Britain. :p

[donKey jote]

hehe... if you can't beat 'em, do a donkey :s

According to RTL, both Dennis and Haug say Alonso wasn't to blame... his race engineer, however, is no Schumacher and is expendable :p :

link: http://sport.rtl.de/formel-1/formel1_77784.php

Teamchef Ron Dennis sprach Alonso dagegen von jeder Schuld frei. "Wir haben als Team nicht das getan, was wir hätten tun müssen", sagte der Brite. Es habe sich um eine Entscheidung eines Renningenieurs gehandelt, der die Startfreigabe runterzähle, erklärte Dennis. Unmittelbar nach dem Qualifying hatte der Mclaren-Boss allerdinsg wütend seine Kopfhörer weggeschleudert, ehe er auf Alonsos Physiotherapeuten einredete. Auch Mercedes-Sportchef Norbert Haug mochte Alonso keine Absicht unterstellen. "Das war einfach ein Koordinationsfehler", sagte Haug. Es sei zwar eine große Rivalität innerhalb des Teams, "aber auch eine große Sportlichkeit", betonte er. "Jeder will den anderen schlagen, wir lassen das zu, soweit es geht, aber ich möchte nicht, dass es zu irgendwelchen Berührungen kommt." Verhindern kann Haug das allerdings nicht ...
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Daika]

As unsporting as I think it was of Alonso I don't think this is an area that FIA should get involved in. If you punish Alonso you will also punish an innocent McLaren.

If FIA gets into the politics of a team, where will they stop? Are they going to start checking setups and strategy to see if one driver was favoured over another?

If you punish a driver it will always affect the team. If you let it unpunish you will set a precedent.

People working for Mclaren are doing all sorts of illigal things nowadays!!

[donKey jote]

According to the Calvo (Spanish TV donkey-F1 commentator and madly in love with Alonso, allegedly :p : ), Alonso let him in on the reason RD looked so pissed off: "The wrong man on pole" :D :s

[markabilly]

Seems to me Ron wanted to get both his cars out onto the final flying lap, he was pi**ed because one of his drivers was trying to stop the other from doing that. The only bias here is how you would read that.

Spoke like a truhamiefan, RD would be proud of you--what i think is so very telling..is that RD was not celebrating a one-two

I just put the clock to it on a replay ----if FA left at about one or two seconds after the lollipop went up, by the time Hamie pulls up, stops, the tires are changed, takes off with the speed limit of the pitlane...he was still too late based on the timing shown on the screen---unless he could do about a 1.22 lap starting from his pit, on the rev limiter and flying right out on to the track and blistering his tires in the process

The real problem was the overall slow stop (the second screwed up stop for FA in qualifying) where in both stops, the crew was too busy screwing around and in the second, hamie was already parking behind FA long before the lollipop went up.....so no big deal about an investigation......

But what it really shows and show be cause for celebration among certian folks :bounce: , is that FA will NOT beat out Lewis for the WDC :bounce:

[donKey jote]

That's when FA started Bitching, panicking, pressing and complaining to anyone who would hear.
Remind me who started all the bitching: LH at the Monaco press conference and the British press straight after :D :s
At the moment it´s the Spanish press who are doing the bitching far more than Alonso :dozey:
...
until today at least... might even get meself the Sun tomorrow :laugh:

[markabilly]

Remind me who started all the bitching: LH at the Monaco press conference and the British press straight after :D :s
At the moment it´s the Spanish press who are doing the bitching far more than Alonso :dozey:
...
until today at least :laugh:
Because he was clearly on the losing end of the fuel lap credits by reason of that first screwed up stop--and just why was he so mad at the engineers when stopped there--pointing and gesturing at them????

[markabilly]

The lates--most interesting

"
In the final qualifying period, and on his first pit stop in that 15-minute session, Alonso initially suffered a problem with a tyre blanket that delayed his release.

Following a second pit stop for fresh tyres, and with the clock ticking, he was clearly held, leaving Hamilton queueing behind him. "

Hmilton:""I think the team have been extremely fair, at least ever since Monaco"

and to top it off:" Rumours suggested Alonso was behind held by his personal physio Fabrizio Borra, who was counting off the seconds to the Spaniard with his fingers, so making sure Hamilton would not have enough time for one more lap. "


Where is the evidence???"rumors"??

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2640610,00.html


The whole thing is a joke!!!!!

[raikk]

In the closing moments of the 3rd quali session Alonso makes a change for tyres with Lewis pitting just behind. Alonso waits for a bit after the lollipop goes up with Lewis waiting behind him. Lewis is delayed and is unable to complete another flying lap in time. Alonso is able and takes pole away from Lewis while he is unable to respond. Was this delibarate tactics from Alonso?

Personally I think so and the FIA sholud definately take a look and that Alonso should be punished for such low unsporting tactics :mad:

I kind of agree but for the hell of it lets let Alonso keep Pole and see what happens in the first corner :) .. F1 is starting to get a bit kinky :p :

[redson]

What about if the FIA sanctions Alonso? Do you think McLaren will appeal the decission? If the do not, that will show who's mama's boy.

[donKey jote]

Hmilton:""I think the team have been extremely fair, at least ever since Monaco"
whingey whingey to anyone who would hear :laugh:

[donKey jote]

What about if the FIA sanctions Alonso? Do you think McLaren will appeal the decission? If the do not, that will show who's mama's boy.

If the FIA sanction Alonso we all know who´ll be throwing the mother of all whingey whingeys :p :
Did Ron ask the FIA to investigate after Lewis was held up by his own teammate, or are the FIA investigating team orders on their own accord ? :D :dozey: :s

[ICKE]

Alonso just said in the Spanish tv-channel : "The only reason people at Mclaren are unhappy is because I got the pole and Hamilton was second"

Give´em hell !

[Ian McC]

If the FIA sanction Alonso we all know who´ll be throwing the mother of all whingey whingeys :p :

Yep, Alonso will be throwing teddies everywhere

[VkmSpouge]

I can't think why the FIA would punish Alonso, as far as I know there's no rule about having to go when the lollipop is up.
As for other things. Both McLaren seemed to have whined equally this year. Both McLaren drivers seemed to have been equally well treated by the team this year and I personally think that any allegations of bias towards either driver are false.

[Robinho]

personally i don't think it was the most sporting manouvre, not strictly against the rules i wouldn't think, but i can see why McLaren would be upset, not because of the perceievd bias towards Hamilton (it was Alonso a couple of Months ago!?) but beacause on the whole they want the drivers to race each other, and Alonso's actions prevented a fair fight on track because he got one more flyer than Hamilton.

difficult to say if it was deliberate, it certainly looked that way, but if Alonso had not been held up so long in his earlier stop then the situation never would have arisen anyway.

i can't see the stewards taking any action, in fact i'd rather they didn't cos i don't think i could stand the accusations of bias by the FIA that would pour out of some of the unsavoray corners of the forum.

McLaren can deal with this in private, and let them duke it out on track, lets face it, they can afford to with a BMW between them and Raikk and Massa nowhere.

i think it might be a spur of the moment competitive decision that may be regretted later down the line, or it could be enough for Alonso to take the edge in the title battle

[markabilly]

Alonso just said in the Spanish tv-channel : "The only reason people at Mclaren are unhappy is because I got the pole and Hamilton was second"

Give´em hell !
Weeelll duuuhhhh

it is called saying the obvious..........
not merely maclrenut but amany a fan in Brit..as well

but it should be celebration cause now we know who RD loves :eek:

[Timber]

[quote="F1boat"]And I want Lewis to retire, I hate this smug, arrogant jerk :)

i am with you .... he is very arrogant !!

[markabilly]

MS and Senna figured out it ain't how you win. it is whether you won or not.

Maclarentu depends on winning to make money

Mercedes depends on advertizing and public image that they are a "great company making great cars" but now they have mcaalarent and rd in the dumpster over NS and certain docs :eek: Cheating?? :eek:

Then the two drivers clearly one has been getting screwed lately...so he dioes a little payback...

And now this blow up, one driver cheating another driver???????His teammate?? :eek: So much for being a great company and all that.....yeah well rd may have an even bigger problem and so does Mercedes :eek:

[Robinho]

Weeelll duuuhhhh

it is called saying the obvious..........
not merely maclrenut but amany a fan in Brit..as well

but it should be celebration cause now we know who RD loves :eek:

how does it show that? what if it was the other way round? i think RD would be just as annoyed?

Alonso got one more flying lap. he didn't need to do that to his teammate. he might have beaten him anyway and it wouldn't have mattered. he might have lost pole, but fairly and squarely. why are you so against the 2 drivers fighting it out? do you live to see deeper consiracies in every event in life or just in F1 or just McLaren, why so bitter?

will i just be designated a "McLarunt fan" and "Hammie fanatic" just beacuse i dare to have an opposing opinion to you?

i think its a pity we might not get to see Alonso and Hamilton fight it out on track. its a great fight and if Alonso takes the title on merit then great, i'll be in the line to congratulate him, and i think Hamilton will get his chance, even if its not this year.

[Timber]

classless and unsporting.
Whatever little respect I had for Alonso's abilites have gone out the winbdow with this fiendish tactic. Very Schumacher like.
So you can't beat him fair & square so you resort to deviant tactics to accomplish your goals. Bravo Alonso.

Hamilton easily would have taken pole, He did his lap on a heavier fuel load severla laps prior and was again on the softer compound ready to go. FA could only manage to be a 1/10th faster than him.

His true colors have always been known to many in the paddock, but todays actions are all the evidence anyone needs to dislike this guy. a 2 time lucky champion who's a cry baby and a cheater. MS as bad as he was would never have done that to his own teammate. He would have gone out on Sunday and beaten him to submission.

I'm curious to what RD, McClaren and the FIA will do. These actions are in the same category as MS in Monaco and should merit a demotion to the back of the grid. He cleary impeded another driver ( teamate or not) from attempting a timed lap. The lollipop guy lifted, the team waved him on, and he did not move. Plus he was also blocking Kimi during the first part of Q3

This spells the end of any collaboration or friendship on their part. Neither will give an inch anymore. The best thing for RD to do is to let them go at it for the rest of the season. They have pretty much wrapped up the WCC anyway.

first you never had any respect for Alonso
Second how do you know that LH would have taken the pole
You have some B...... to call Alonso a 2 times lucky champion , how do you come to that conclusion , i am curious to know ?
Poor Lewis , he is going to have to make his own setup on the car and we all know what happen when he did that ( silverstone )

[Jag_Warrior]

And if McLaren tirs that, Alonso can crash into Lewis. Ron is gonna enjoy that? As he enjoyed f***in Prost in 1988-9 and Montoya in 2005-6? What Montoya did in Indy, Alonso coould do tomorrow.

That would be a wise move on Alonso's part. Then the FIA would get involved and he would likely find himself excluded from the championship. Fernando is going to enjoy that?

I like both drivers. But increasingly, Alonso is coming off like a little puta. What I didn't like about this episode, he seemed to be the culprit, yet he passes the buck off onto "the team". If you're going to be a cheat, own up to it. But Fernando goes out like a puta.

[Jag_Warrior]

And I want Lewis to retire, I hate this smug, arrogant jerk :)

i am with you .... he is very arrogant !!

Ah, yet he speaks so highly of you. When did you two cease to be mates?

[rohanweb]

I think the stewards should step in and relegate Alonso to 10th position at best. What Alonso did is a complete disgrace..!!!

I have lost all the respect for the world champ called Alonso....

what a pity He cannot fend off a Rookie in champion's style!!!.
utter disgrace that he is doing such dirty tricks in order to be ahead.

I wish LH wins tomorrow to teach him a lesson,

where is the FA die-hard fans to explain his behaviour on the pit today?

[Ian McC]

McLaren summoned by stewards

http://www.crash.net/news_view~cid~1~id~152413.htm

Guess we should hear something soon

[Sleeper]

The problemhere is that McLaren employes two extremely competative and talented drivers and that one is a double WDC and the other a rookie. Its been well documented that Alonso hates to get beaten by his team mates, probably because he has never (as far as I know) had a team mate that could regularly match him. He joined McLaren as a double champion and hoped/expected to get preferential treatment. However, McLaren is a team well known for letting its drivers race. Whats more, Hamilton, a rookie, has not only raced but matched and even beaten Alonso as often as not and the press furor surrounding him probably isnt helping matters either. This all builds up to what FA sees as an unfair situatuaition, he shold be the one with the wait of McLarens resources behind him. As a result, he's resorting to unsavery tactics.

[nigelred5]

Yeah bro, but as I said and I will say all the time, what is happening between the two guys is not their fault. It is RON's big mistake and now he gonna enjoy what he wanted.

I don't speak against the young, he showed the pace and in future he will be the king out there. But people here ignore that there is a cold war in the team and it is obvious now clear every one can see that.

So let it be like it is, if there is an FIA article punishing this exactly, so Alonso has to be punished. But the credit for him is that he is experienced in the business, and though he knew what he was doing in blocking Lewis. That is the point.

I agree totally.

How can they prove a deliberate act of blocking on the part of Alonzo, especially in the pits, sitting still?. Is there a rule that a driver MUST move his car from Pit lane immediately after his team finishes their service? Hell, penalize Massa for deliberately shutting his engine off smack in the middle of the pit lane. Alonzo was in his pit on his pit stop. If they are going to penalize a driver for NOT moving, they might as well start penalizing STR as soon as the haulers leave Faenza for blocking the track BY moving......!

So his reflexes were slow, or he was distracted by something he saw in pit lane or he had to sneeze and he paused. I could give you a host of excuses noone could contest and prove motivation and intent. He was in the pit, not in the active pit lane or on the racing surface. He has no obligation to race control leave his pit in any way. Hell, he could have just shut the car off or rolled off slowly just as easily and accomplished exactly the same thing. Fernando's showing the very traits of playing psychological warfare with his teammates Senna did. :thumbsup:

McLaren might not be happy about it, but there is nothing the FIA could or SHOULD do. IF they do, well then I would expect 21 other drivers and 1 in particular that would scream bloody he!! of blatant favoritism on the part of the FIA, and if McLaren makes too much of a public stink about it, well, to me it stinks of team team rules, and we know that's not allowed ;) They've got enough questions to answer right now. Me thinks RD will keep his mouth very much shut on the subject in public.

It's McLaren's fault for stacking them on track and in the pits so close together. McLaren has always claimed their drivers are equals, well I don't think anyone will believe that for a second of McLaren this year. Alonso is taking mattersinto his own hands. I can't wait for turn 1 tomorrow.!

[Fallingwater]

A rough translation from Marca, some 2 hours ago (I know they are usually biased, but I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet)

"Hamilton ignored team strategy and McLaren blocked him with Alonso.
The indicent involving Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton is becoming one of the most surreal in the history of the sport.
After Alonso was accused of intentionally blocking the british driver, and after the FIA's decision to investigate the spaniards manouvre, the one at fault seems to be... Lewis Hamilton! Ron Dennis talked in private with both drivers and admitted he had ignored the team's orders. Alonso came out on the Hungarian track with enough fuel to make one more lap than his teammate. Up to six times, the team told Lewis to let Fernando pass in front, but Hamilton just ignored the order.That's when both drivers reached the pit stop and McLaren decided to hold up Hamilton by telling Alonso not to move. That's how the spaniard explained the events, saying that the strategy decision had been taken by the team after Saturday practice.
Given these circumstances, the chance of Alonso being penalized dissapear, since the team radio shows evidence that Alonso was just following team orders and Hamilton was the one who disobeyed. Ron Dennis was angry with the feeling of chaos that the whole situation had created and about the way in which they had to deal with it"

http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/motor/formula1/es/desarrollo/1023669.html
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2007/08/04/motor/1186245489.html
http://es.eurosport.yahoo.com/04082007/47/gp-hungria-alonso-hamilton-hizo-caso.html

In any case, it might be possible that Alonso didn't do anything wrong at all.

[ICKE]

"However, McLaren is a team well known for letting its drivers race"

No that would be, Mclaren is a team well known for speaking how they let their drivers race. You know, like how Ron Dennis declared equality between Coulthard and Hakkinen in 98-01. Eventhough Adrian Newey later said that he always concentrated on Mika, because he was the A-driver in the team.

The same thing was with Prost and Senna. The brazilian received preferential treatment from the team altough Ron "the integrity" Dennis said back then that there was no distinction.

[BeansBeansBeans]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61368

According to Ron Dennis, Alonso was not at fault. Hard to say whether this is the truth or whether Ron is simply trying to escape a penalty.

[DonnieDarco]

I was just about to post that myself :D

To me, it just proves that Ron will say and do ANYTHING avoid a penalty.

He was absolutely livid on the pitwall! Alonso sat there ignoring the lollipop. If he leaves when he's told to leave, then how come he just sat there???

I cannot believe he's willing to put all the blame on Hamilton just to avoid the diva getting a penalty.

[Sleeper]

That makes absolutely no logical sense, especially since Alonso was touring much slower than Hamilton, and that he pited the lap before LH as well. The fact that the outcome of the pitstop could have jepordised the teams front row lock out also seems to support the fact that the above text is a load of BS. I've heard many of the Spanish members of the boards bad mouth Marca's reporting so I think I'll wait until I hear from something a bit more reliable.

[nigelred5]

It was a racing incident under Green Flag conditions - they must investigate it and penalise drivers accordingly.

He was off track!!! Penalize him for WHAT? Gamesmanship? Not following ILLEGAL TEAM ORDERS???? There's been one hell of a lot of ON TRACK behavior they need to police before they start policing pit stops. GOod lord, how often do you see drivers NOT leave the millisecond the lollipop is raised. They held him intentionally the prior pit stop and Hamilton was behind him then as well as I recall.

IMHO, it's all just a wee bit too much whining from the Hamiltonistas. Kid has talent, but he's still got PLENTY to learn, especially from a two time WDC.

[Ian McC]

To me, it just proves that Ron will say and do ANYTHING avoid a penalty.


Would you expect any other Manager to saying anything different? He has got to keep his two drivers working together with the team, that isn't going to be a hard task now.

[ArrowsFA1]

According to an Autosport report Alonso was not to blame (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61368). His engineer held him for whatever reason. The report also says Hamilton had not obeyed an order from the team earlier to let Alonso past in order to allow the Spaniard to have an extra lap and so the drivers were out of sequence.

If this was deliberate on the part of Alonso then it was a dumb, dumb move for a couple of reasons. Firstly he races for McLaren, not the other way around. Also it shows that he has to resort to this kind of tactic to limit Hamilton's challenge, and that shows weakness. I suspect that Hamilton would be likely to respond in the best way possible, on track.

Although not dangerous, it is the kind of action that Senna and Schumacher were capable of, and were condemned for. Prost once said of Senna, "if you want the title that badly you can have it" and that's what I thought when I saw what happened today. If that's the way Alonso wants to win then he's gone down in my estimation. The title of Champion is more than just collecting a trophy, it's about how you go about winning it.

[Ian McC]

Hamiltonistas

Christ on a bike, anyone else going to come out with any other stupid names today?

[Fallingwater]

RD's and FA's version seem to be the same. I'd be surprised if it wasn't true, since Alonso explained quite clearly.
In any case, I don't see how Hamilton would let himself be deprived of his last lap and on top of that admit the official version that he was the one to blame... Doesn't sound logical, does it?

[jens]

I have heard another rumour.

That the anti-Hamilton waiting plan was made between Alonso and his engineer and no-one else in the team knew about that. And in the decisive moment they decided to accomplish that plan with Alonso following his engineer's gestures.

About the latest story like Hamilton is the guilty one. Considering, in which manner Ron went to that engineer and talked to him, it's hard to believe that he has changed his mind so much. Trying to escape the penalty? Possible. It's easier to screw one Alonso's pit-stop in the race (a payback as mechanics pretend a fuel-rig problem for 10 seconds so that Lewis gets into the lead :D ) than to see him starting from 10th or - even worse - from 22nd.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Christ on a bike, anyone else going to come out with any other stupid names today?

Erm...Lembit Opik.

You threw down the gauntlet, and I've picked it up.

[BeansBeansBeans]

That makes absolutely no logical sense, especially since Alonso was touring much slower than Hamilton, and that he pited the lap before LH as well. The fact that the outcome of the pitstop could have jepordised the teams front row lock out also seems to support the fact that the above text is a load of BS. I've heard many of the Spanish members of the boards bad mouth Marca's reporting so I think I'll wait until I hear from something a bit more reliable.

If it makes no logical sense, then it's the fault of Ron Dennis, not Autosport. I very much doubt they would competely fabricate a statement in this way.

[ArrowsFA1]

McLaren team boss Ron Dennis has confirmed Lewis Hamilton was to blame for the qualifying incident involving the Briton and teammate Fernando Alonso, after the rookie driver ignored team orders earlier in the session...Although the Spaniard had been waved by his "lolly pop" mechanic to leave the pitlane, Dennis revealed Alonso's engineer had instructed him to wait as a consequence of Hamilton disobeying the team's orders earlier on.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61368

So was this redressing the balance, or payback? Either way, none of this makes for a good relationship between team-mates, particularly as it seems Hamilton, not Alonso, was in the wrong.

[mirek01]

This is just F1 only one winner. You have to put every trick you know, play mind games and Alonso did this. Tomorrow they could crash at 1st corner.

[donKey jote]

According to an Autosport report Alonso was not to blame (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61368). His engineer held him for whatever reason. The report also says Hamilton had not obeyed an order from the team earlier to let Alonso past in order to allow the Spaniard to have an extra lap and so the drivers were out of sequence.


wow, RTL appear to be right and the thlot pickens :D
so IF this is true, will all the truehamiltonistas eat their words, hate Alonso´s engineer or RD instead, and reserve their hate for Alonso for another occasion :)
whingey whingeys all around :p :
I´ll definitely get the Sun tomorrow :s

[Daika]

what "team order" did Hamilton ignored?

[Fallingwater]

Even after getting pole, Alonso wasn't exactly happy about the whole situation. I think he actually said to Telecinco that the pit stop delay almost cost him his own last lap.
Still, it's very fishy. If Hamilton was to blame, I don't understand Alonso's comments about the team not being happy because he was the one in P1...

[nigelred5]

Apparently to allow Alonso by earlier in the session

[donKey jote]

If you're going to be a cheat, own up to it. But Fernando goes out like a puta.

So after spitting out about a puta, and reading the latest quotes, will you swallow them like a never mind ?

[Ian McC]

Well if that's the case then I am happy to apologise to Alonso :D

Doesn't explain why Ron seemed to get so upset when it happened and then wouldn't say anything to the ITV pit crew, you would expect him to know exactly what was going on. Anyway, why would you stop one of your drivers getting an extra lap in, just because he is being a naughty boy?

Doesn't all add up.

[donKey jote]

I don't understand Alonso's comments about the team not being happy because he was the one in P1...
I never actually heard him make those comments on telecinco. I think it was only "el Calvo" who claimed he said that :s

[donKey jote]

"Obviously Lewis feels more uncomfortable with the situation than Fernando. That's life, that's the way it is, and if he feels too hot to talk about it then that's the way it is. "

"Fernando is here. Have I explained it accurately? [Alonso gives a thumbs-up]. OK. That's the way it is."

:rotflmao:
:dozey:

[ArrowsFA1]

Well if that's the case then I am happy to apologise to Alonso :D
Me too :D It seems Hamilton is the one who has some explaining to do.

[Jag_Warrior]

So after spitting out about a puta, and reading the latest quotes, will you swallow them like a never mind ?

Johnny Cochran: If the glove doesn't fit, you just acquit!

Bill Clinton: I did not have sex with that woman!

Lindsey Lohan: What coke? Oh, that coke! Uh... it ain't mine!

Ron Dennis: Here's what really happened...


I continue to like Fernando. But yes, increasingly this season, he seems to be taking on a certain whiney, puta-like quality. But don't worry, once Sebastien Bourdais hits F1, there will be a new benchmark for whiney beyotches.

[Fallingwater]

I never actually heard him make those comments on telecinco. I think it was only "el Calvo" who claimed he said thatWell, yeah. When I say he "told Telecinco" I actually mean he spoke to Lobato, Seara etc.


Anyway, why would you stop one of your drivers getting an extra lap in, just because he is being a naughty boy?Might have something to do with the race strategy. Who knows, if Lewis had actually done his extra lap at full speed, they might have had to refuel both cars in the same lap. It's just speculation, of course.

[Kevincal]

Why does it seem all the Schumi haters jumped on board with the Alonso haters just for the sake of hating a winner? And oh how incredibly funny it is that it turns out Hamilton was probably the one who caused this whole fiasco in the first place...

[Daika]

Me too :D It seems Hamilton is the one who has some explaining to do.

quite the contrary Alonso has to answer the stewards. This all sound very very fishy to me and doesn't make sense at all.

[donKey jote]

Well if that's the case then I am happy to apologise to Alonso :D

Doesn't explain why Ron seemed to get so upset when it happened and then wouldn't say anything to the ITV pit crew, you would expect him to know exactly what was going on. Anyway, why would you stop one of your drivers getting an extra lap in, just because he is being a naughty boy?

Doesn't all add up.
I think it´s a case of a couple of naughty boys :p :
Maybe LH´s engineer got pissed off at what he saw as "team orders" a la Monaco, and tried to ignore them. Alonso´s engineer was having none of it. :D
Ron was upset because neither of his engineers would listen to him :laugh:
(oh, and maybe because FA got pole instead of LH :dozey: )

from: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61366

That was the only problem the team had. Ron's anger was because he (Hamilton) didn't accept an order that the team repeated several times over the first lap.

[Ian McC]

That was the only problem the team had. Ron's anger was because he (Hamilton) didn't accept an order that the team repeated several times over the first lap.

Then why was he getting upset with Alonsos engineer? Seems to me they are trying to make the best out of this mess. However you want to call it seems that the two sides have fallen out, I hope they don't do it on the track at the first corner tomorrow.

[Ian McC]

Well, no sign of harmony breaking out anytime soon.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61369

[donKey jote]

yep... whingey whingeys all around :p :


And Hamilton revealed this wasn't the first time he was asked to move over for Alonso. "It's the first time I have made a decision [against the team ;) ], but I have had to let him past before," he said.

[DonnieDarco]

Well if that's the case then I am happy to apologise to Alonso :D

Doesn't explain why Ron seemed to get so upset when it happened and then wouldn't say anything to the ITV pit crew, you would expect him to know exactly what was going on. Anyway, why would you stop one of your drivers getting an extra lap in, just because he is being a naughty boy?

Doesn't all add up.

Of course its not the case, this is all for the benefit of the race tomorrow. When exactly, did Hamilton hold up Alonso? Anyone see it? I certainly didn't. In any case, Alonso sat there taking no notice of the lollipop, while his man counted down for him. And then Hamilton lost his chance at a final lap.

Alonso got riled at the earlier delay, which I would imagine was because his team were looking for a spot clear of traffic to send him out in. This is usually the case. The tyre blanket was an accident.

If Alonso leaves when the team tells him to leave, then that would be the instant the lollipop was raised.

And to add insult to injury he's now claiming it was all Hamilton's fault, so Alonso will escape a penalty.

I'm not a fanatical Hamilton fan, but I hate to see bad sportsmanship done to anyone, and Alonso is really pushing the boat out lately.

[Fallingwater]

I actually, during qualifying, I think the lollipop only indicates that the mechanics are done with their job. The driver still needs the signal from his engineer to make sure he reaches the track on an adequate traffic position.
Unlike the race, in which the lollipop means you can proceed right away.

[Lemmy-Boy]

Too many lawyers, not enough evidence. Before everyone starts crucifying Mr. Alonso, you should read the latest comments from Ron Dennis regarding this situation. Apparently, the delay was triggered by Hamilton and his inability to follow instructions.

From: ITV-F1 (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40282)

“Fernando was being counted down by his engineer,” Dennis told reporters at the Hungaroring.

“He’s under the control of his engineer. He determined when he goes. That’s the sequence.

“And if you think that was a deliberate thing, then you can think what you want. I have given you exactly what happened.”

Dennis said it was Hamilton’s failure to stick to the agreed procedure during the fuel-burning phase of Q3 that was the catalyst for the delay.

“We have various procedures within the team and prior to practice we determine how it is going to be run, what our strategy is, and how that’s going to be enacted on the circuit,” he said.

“They were out of sequence because Lewis should have slowed and let Fernando past,” he said."

It looks like Fernando was innocent after all. Shame on you whiners for labeling him guilty as sin! ;)

[DonnieDarco]

We have read it, some of us choose to treat it with a certain amount of disbelief, given that Ron would sell his soul to ensure he has both cars on the front row tomorrow ;)

[Ian McC]

I actually, during qualifying, I think the lollipop only indicates that the mechanics are done with their job. The driver still needs the signal from his engineer to make sure he reaches the track on an adequate traffic position.
Unlike the race, in which the lollipop means you can proceed right away.


The lollipop man is in contact with the team, if you watch todays incident the lollipop stayed down long after the had finished the tyre change. Even before the lollipop lifted Hamilton was queuing up, I am sure the team saw that. The only thing gained by waiting those extra seconds was ensuring that Hamilton didn't get an extra lap in.

[Ian McC]

We have read it, some of us choose to treat it with a certain amount of disbelief, given that Ron would sell his soul to ensure he has both cars on the front row tomorrow ;)


Aah Donnie, you really hate Ron don't you? :p : I agree about the disbelief part but again I say would any other team manager of done any different after that mess.

[DonnieDarco]

Its fair to say I'm not his biggest fan :D But then, to be absolutely fair, I don't like many of the team principals, with the obvious exception of the wonderful Sir Frank ;)

But seriously, does anyone actually buy that excuse???

I'm not even a particular fan of Hamilton!

[F1boat]

I dislike Ron intensely, but I am very pleased that he defended Alonso. Kudos for Alonso!
Still, FIA is gonna punish the Fred and I am gonna miss the race deliberately. If they want to crown the super-talented kid as champion, it's their decision. Do it without me watching :)

[Fallingwater]

The only thing gained by waiting those extra seconds was ensuring that Hamilton didn't get an extra lap in.
And putting Alonso's in danger too, which would support the version of the events that says they deliberately wanted to hold up Hamilton.
It's different to Alonso acting entirely on his own.

[F1boat]

So Alonso calculated that strange two seconds? He is a wizard or something, eh?

[Ian McC]

I dislike Ron intensely

And Hamilton as well it appears, judging by all that rubbish you posted in this thread.

[Ian McC]

Its fair to say I'm not his biggest fan :D But then, to be absolutely fair, I don't like many of the team principals, with the obvious exception of the wonderful Sir Frank ;)

Would of loved to see what Frank would have said if they had been his drivers, I expect in public it would not of been much different


But seriously, does anyone actually buy that excuse???

Nope! ;)

[tinchote]

I'm reading RD's explanations (http://www.f1complete.com/content/view/5653/617/) and there is absolute no logic in them - as usual.

Suppose that LH held FA in the first lap. What does that have to do with the episode in the pit lane? We have to assume that he is saying "revenge is ok"? What kind of team owner is this guy? :s

[Blackburn Buccaneer]

i would love to believe dennis on this: god knows i'm a fan.
but, as the old saying goes: "who're you gonna believe, me, or your lying eyes?"

[Jag_Warrior]

Jokes and fanboi antics aside (including my own ;) ), one must admit, this is turning into one of the most intriguing F1 seasons in many years.

Other series fail me, but good on F1 for coming through this year!

[Ian McC]

Jokes and fanboi antics aside (including my own ;) ), one must admit, this is turning into one of the most intriguing F1 seasons in many years.

Other series fail me, but good on F1 for coming through this year!

Hell, I thought with MS and JV gone it was going to be dead on here!

[F1boat]

And Hamilton as well it appears, judging by all that rubbish you posted in this thread.

Yeah, I said so. I am biased! :)

[BM]

This - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61368 - is the biggest load of bull**** I have EVER read!!!! :mad:

Surely, the only think that matters is the countdown at the top of the screen?

[VkmSpouge]

After reading McLaren's explanations I'm sorry for ever thinking that was a deliberate move by Alonso and Hamilton should have obeyed his team's orders (they've thought through the qualifying in a lot of detail after all) instead of trying to gain a small advantage.

[Jag_Warrior]

Hell, I thought with MS and JV gone it was going to be dead on here!

Me too. If nothing else, F1 can still surprise, eh?

Look at the American open wheel series. One is trying to justify its existence by stating how much the other one sucks, yet no one cares to watch its races on TV either. The other is based around a flat chested girl who has never won a professional automobile race - though now the balance is provided by another one who (as nice as she is as a person) can't drive a shopping cart, without knocking cereal boxes off the shelf. This is the open wheel scene we have here. :(

Even if I happen to piss off some fellow F1 fans here, at least the discussions are more about racing, on track antics and drivers that are known... outside of family reunions. If the word "merger" is used here, it probably has to do with Ralfie getting his nosecone stuck in another car.

Tomorrow, I predict fireworks... and I can't wait! :bounce:

[Marbles]

The only logic in the explanation by Dennis is damage control. Of course he doesn't want Alonso punished because it punishes the team. Whether this was Alonso acting alone or conspiring with his trainer\girlfriend\dentist\old school chum\Mercedes rep there was definitely something questionable underway that wasn't in the playbooks of the McLaren team.

If you saw the end of qualifying and you saw the way Dennis grabbed the chunky guy with the headset, who ever the hell he is, and you saw Dennis attempt to discretely have words with Alonso after the weight check as Alonso ignored him and walked away and you saw the way Hamilton glared at Alonso as he waited to hear FA's explanation for the wait in pit lane in the post race interview and you buy the McLaren spin then all I can say is:

"Hello in there."

I'm loving this. Whoever thought F1 would be the most entertaining open wheel series in the world?

[Hazell B]

The whole story won't come out for a long time, but my guess is that Alonso came up with a very clever way to gain pole. RD won't have known, nor LH of course, as it's harmed the team too much to be a team idea.

Rotten sportsmanship does pay some times ... until your second pitstop takes twenty minutes because Ron's superglued your mechanics to their chairs :p :

[race aficionado]

Some guys watched it on TV and said Ron was livid

Yep! It was all on camera. Once Q3 ended, Ron threw his earphones on the floor as he quickly went to FA's lolipop man and grabbed him by the shoulder and kept holding him on the shoulder as they walked somewhere.
*edit: speed TV said that that was the lolipop man and now I read that Ron took Fabrizio, a guy that is know to keep FA cool under preassure because Ron thought that both his drivers would be hot and that he would calm LH and that this fabrizio (sp?) would keep FA calm.

RD was clearly a pissed off man and someone is going to pay for this if he has something to do with it.


I liked how LH handled the Q&A session.

que pasó Alonso??????

:s mokin:

[Timber]

Its fair to say I'm not his biggest fan :D But then, to be absolutely fair, I don't like many of the team principals, with the obvious exception of the wonderful Sir Frank ;)

But seriously, does anyone actually buy that excuse???

I'm not even a particular fan of Hamilton!

i buy it , and i think That you are a fan of LH....

[DonnieDarco]

I'm a JPM fan, so not really :D I should qualify that :D I still follow JPM in Nascar, and so now I watch F1 without supporting any particular driver or team.

I've been sick to my back teeth of the endless Hamilton coverage in the UK, and James Allen calling him a national treasure.

But, I know bad sportsmanship when I see it, and I also know there's no denying Ron was livid, and practically frogmarched Alonso's man up the pitlane, all the while keeping a hold on him :D

[truefan72]

first you never had any respect for Alonso
Second how do you know that LH would have taken the pole
You have some B...... to call Alonso a 2 times lucky champion , how do you come to that conclusion , i am curious to know ?
Poor Lewis , he is going to have to make his own setup on the car and we all know what happen when he did that ( Silverstone )

for someone who's been on this forum for a NY minute, you surely have me figured out. I never disliked Alonso until he started complaining to anyone who would listen and making ridiculous comments to reporters, ALL because his teammate was beating him. According to FA's world ,his teammate should not be challenging him, why, because at Renault he was given the #1 and dominant status with the team.

Although I complained about his unnecessary gesturing, last year and his Testing incidents, I had no issues with him. But of late, it seems very clear that his antics have taken a more darker tone to the point where he feels he has to cheat (...I'm sorry, take full advantage of the regulations) That is my issue with the man. RD never favored Hamilton over Alonso and was about a few test sessions away from having an all Spanish lineup for McClaren in 2008. He obviously made the right call as Hamilton is leading the WDC. The team initially gave preferential treatment to the 2 time WDC as rightfully they should have. But Hamilton, drove his ass off, didn't make any mistakes and took the challenge to the track. Yes he complained in Monaco because he thought that the time had come for him to receive equal treatment. This clearly unnerved Alonso who wasn't interested in equal status. He has finally come to grips with Hamilton being a worthy advisory and is using every trick in the book to keep him back.

There are a few posters here who have joined the forum for the sole purpose of bashing LH. and in a few case I smell a hint of discriminatory undertones.

The simple truth is that it is Alonso who has invited the criticism and not the other way around. I don't see conspiracies in every corner, or believe in trashing a driver for the sake of trashing him because he drives a Ferrari, McClaren or because I don't like the driver. I see the incidents, read the interviews, and respond to their actions.

IMO this incident only makes FA look bad no matter what the stewards, FIA or the team choose to do. It just confirms to everyone that LH in his rookie year in F1 has already gotten the better of FA and pretty much the entire field. Instead of Alonso rising to the challenge he sinks to unsporting tactics.
Like my Wife said this morning " I'm not saying something's wrong, but something ain't right"

[truefan72]

A rough translation from Marca, some 2 hours ago (I know they are usually biased, but I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet)

"Hamilton ignored team strategy and McLaren blocked him with Alonso.
The indicent involving Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton is becoming one of the most surreal in the history of the sport.
After Alonso was accused of intentionally blocking the british driver, and after the FIA's decision to investigate the spaniards manouvre, the one at fault seems to be... Lewis Hamilton! Ron Dennis talked in private with both drivers and admitted he had ignored the team's orders. Alonso came out on the Hungarian track with enough fuel to make one more lap than his teammate. Up to six times, the team told Lewis to let Fernando pass in front, but Hamilton just ignored the order.That's when both drivers reached the pit stop and McLaren decided to hold up Hamilton by telling Alonso not to move. That's how the spaniard explained the events, saying that the strategy decision had been taken by the team after Saturday practice.
Given these circumstances, the chance of Alonso being penalized dissapear, since the team radio shows evidence that Alonso was just following team orders and Hamilton was the one who disobeyed. Ron Dennis was angry with the feeling of chaos that the whole situation had created and about the way in which they had to deal with it"

http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/motor/formula1/es/desarrollo/1023669.html
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2007/08/04/motor/1186245489.html
http://es.eurosport.yahoo.com/04082007/47/gp-hungria-alonso-hamilton-hizo-caso.html

In any case, it might be possible that Alonso didn't do anything wrong at all.

That is simply unture, if you wathced the Q3 you would see that Alonso was slow all the way and never even hounded LH in anyway, at times LH was at least a second or 2 quicker than FA. In facty FA was holding up Kimi becuase he was driving so slow. If he wanted to burn more fuel he would have been going much faster. That story can't be serious. wow! furthermore, the team waving at him frantically after the lollipop guy lifted and Alonso sitting for 10 seconds waiting for a que from his trainer would indicate otherwhise. If they didn't want him to move, they would have simply left the lollipo down. But I guess you would rather beleive them ( by your own admission biased) than your lieying eyes

:) good story though

[Daika]

5 place penalty for Alonso!!
And Mclaren get no constructers point for Hungary!!!!

[stevie_gerrard]

Well what a dramatic day. qualifying was outstanding, and very intriguing. I think Alonso got wound up by the fact he had been held so long for the first stop before his first flying lap in Q3. The fact that Lewis apparently ignored team orders is quite unusual for the situation Mclaren are in. Surely there isnt a team feud in camp?

But you have to say, it did look like alonso was holding Lewis up, and i have to say i havent been so shocked at a qualifying session in my life. The fact that Alonso very nearly got away with stopping his team mate secure Pole Position is Pure Genius :p : ;)

And i say "nearly got away with it" because BBC Sport have just announced that alonso is to be dropped 5 places on the grid for his antics. Working on finding a link.

[Daika]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6929333.stm

here is the link

[stevie_gerrard]

5 places and no constructors points, now that is unfortunate :p :

[Ian McC]

Is it a bird?

Is it a plane?

No, it's Ron going into orbit!

Alonso's stock just took another dive, Rons attempt at damage limitation has failed. I wouldn't want to be in Rons place right now, with everything that is going on he is going to be hard pressed to keep the team together.

[Daika]

Love to read the FIA statement on this. Paying close attention to why Alonso wasn't thrown at the back of the grid. Heidfeld P2!!

[Fallingwater]

According to FA's world ,his teammate should not be challenging himHe actually said that? All I've heard is Alonso say it's harder to win when your main rival's car is as good as yours and has the same resources available (even Alonso's own experience when it comes to car setup). He's never said anything (that I know of) about nº1 and nº2 status.


Yes he complained in Monaco because he thought that the time had come for him to receive equal treatmentActually any of the two drivers will complain if a team decision favours the other one. That's quite obvious. People might think that drivers have to cope with that, but these two are actually fighting for the title. I'd say that makes a huge difference.

What you don't really see is that they don't have equal status in the team. From the moment you see the mechanics jumping three times higher celebrating LH's poles and victories, you can start to understand why Alonso feels that way. You can say that they are being treated equally in technical aspects, but if every heart in the team wants LH over him, that's more than enough to be angry. At least that's what I think the problem really is. Alonso recovered 12 points in the last two races, so he's not really as afraid as some of you claim. "I'm worried about the results once Brazil is over" he usually says.

[Ian McC]

McLaren have appealed against the points decision

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61372

So where are we? Back to the theory that Alonso did this all off his own back? It certainly would appear so.

[Valve Bounce]

One day, Martin Brundle told to James Allen : " Formula one is about giving and receiving pain."

He must have been referring to Senna whacking Eddie Irvine on the back of his head. :D

[SteveA]

Whether this was Alonso acting alone or conspiring with his trainer\girlfriend\dentist\old school chum\Mercedes rep

Wow! His GF has a lot of roles in the team ;)

[ICKE]

The funniest thing is that this punishment is a clear indicator of Ron Dennis, again, being exposed as a liar.

Integrity. :D

[A Scotsman]

I was somewhat surprised at RD's reaction - throwing his headset off like a spoilt brat... Proof I think that he does favour the Mc love child over FA... After all - ethnic wins F1 Championship in first season will pull in buckets of sponsorship.. Cynical? Maybe but I'm sure that's what he's aiming at and is peeved that FA doesn't like it and isn't prepared to play RD's little game..

But what will RD have in store for FA tomorrow... A problem with the fuel rig or a wheel gun or some other little trick to ensure LH gets in front... ?

[VkmSpouge]

But what will RD have in store for FA tomorrow... A problem with the fuel rig or a wheel gun or some other little trick to ensure LH gets in front... ?

McLaren don't have to do anything to ensure that.

[Fallingwater]

The fact that he's only been moved down 5 positions instead of to the back of the grid is quite fishy though. I think McLaren's constructors penalty is harsh but it sort of makes sense, since they're responsible for the mess.
And if the whole team is at fault, LH should be moved to 7th.
But if Alonso blocked LH on his own, he should be at the back of the grid.
FIA and their logic...

[Daika]

The fact that he's only been moved down 5 positions instead of to the back of the grid is quite fishy though. I think McLaren's constructors penalty is harsh but it sort of makes sense, since they're responsible for the mess.
And if the whole team is at fault, LH should be moved to 7th.
But if Alonso blocked LH on his own, he should be at the back of the grid.
FIA and their logic...

If only the FIA had Spock as a steward...

[Mp3 Astra]

I was somewhat surprised at RD's reaction - throwing his headset off like a spoilt brat... Proof I think that he does favour the Mc love child over FA...

I don't believe he did it for that reason alone. If Alonso had made a mistake on his flying lap, he *could* have gifted pole position to another team (and Hamilton wouldn't have had a chance to steal that place back again, taking both Macs off the front row) ; and since this track is so hard to overtake on, it would have caused a bit headache for McLaren. As it turns out, it did!

[Valve Bounce]

For once I can say I really respect the Stewards for having the balls to make such a decision. Howevr, I am not aware that the Stewards can make a decision not to allow McLaren to score WCC points - isn't this the jurisdiction of the FIA?

I would have loved to have seen Ron Dennis's reaction when he found out. :rotflmao:

[donKey jote]

I blame Bernie :dozey:
Tomorrow it's Nascar for me, this is pathetic :laugh: :p :
Surprise surprise, Ferrari kack out and McLaren get stripped of their points :D

[osg]

Wow..... watched it here live in Australia last night, and like most, on the outside it looked 100% deliberate on Fernando's part. It was said earlier that Fernando did not at any point have to sit in the box, he could have exited and crawled up pitlane and then got on with it once he passed the stripe......

So, the rumors and innuendo regarding the questionable atmosphere at McLaren have finally blown up and gone public. These last 7 races are gonna be huge.......

I disagree with the statements here regarding FA being held back by RD.... if they were to race head to head, i feel Fernando would come out on top, but he would do it the rough way, as was evidenced by the goings on in Q3. He's been slowly cracking all year under the pressure of having the biggest star from a Talent, Money and Viewing audience point in the sports history sitting alongside him.

In the washup, F1 is a business, a big business......... if the strings are being pulled in LH's favour to get him that WDC one way or another, the end result is that he still has to go out and win those races, irrespective of whether he has a guiding hand or not. I certainly feel that FA had his fair share of support last year in winning the title.......

[truefan72]

McLaren have appealed against the points decision

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61372

So where are we? Back to the theory that Alonso did this all off his own back? It certainly would appear so.

Amazing by RD

ffirst he tries to lay blame on LH and says it is/was the teams decision in an attmept to protect FA ( but seriously what choice did he have) his only ammunition was that LH disobayed orders to let FA go by. But now that the verdic has been handed out, he is backtracking and trying to lay the blame back on Alonso's doorstep to avoid loosing WCC points.

He just screwed himself royaly either way, instead of just saying that FA waited to long. In that way, he would have at least got to keep his WCC points andonly suffer a 5 place grid demotion for FA ( which still would have given him a winning or podium chance)

The truth was probably on the radio contact strengthened by the clear video evidence.

1. If FA felt he was being held up by LH he would have been on his tail through the first few laps instead of holding kimi up.

2. If he was given team orders to hold up LH after the lollipop went up then it would have been heard on radio.

3. Because his guy Fabrizio aided him in the decision and is deamed a team member, they only put him back 5 places. If he had acted all on his own he probably would have been demoted to the back of the grid. The loss of WCC points is probably due to the blatant interference of another drivers opportunity to race under green flag conditions. by the team (FA's guy) and subsequent misinformation by RD in an attempt to illude punishment and protect his driver.

[Valve Bounce]

The fact that he's only been moved down 5 positions instead of to the back of the grid is quite fishy though. ...

At Hungary, it's a disaster since overtaking is nigh on impossible.

I'm looking forward to the race start. Hey!! can I suggest as many of you guys as possible log onto our chat room at th esame time as the GP so we can have a good laugh at Ron. :D

[truefan72]

I was somewhat surprised at RD's reaction - throwing his headset off like a spoilt brat... Proof I think that he does favour the Mc love child over FA... After all - ethnic wins F1 Championship in first season will pull in buckets of sponsorship.. Cynical? Maybe but I'm sure that's what he's aiming at and is peeved that FA doesn't like it and isn't prepared to play RD's little game..

But what will RD have in store for FA tomorrow... A problem with the fuel rig or a wheel gun or some other little trick to ensure LH gets in front... ?

that "ethnic" comment has no place in this forum!!!!
that rational IMO shows how much work still needs to be done to foster understanding. LH is leading the WDC as a rookie and has been a phenom all his life in racing. Please don't infer race as a factor here. Afterall. FA signed his McClaren agreement and $20million in december 2005 and LH was given the race seat mere weeks before the first GP after dueling it out with PDLR for the second seat.

[DonnieDarco]

Justice has been done :D I predict Ron will now go into meltdown :D

[Nicos]

"The stewards said they did not accept the team's explanations nor Alonso's for the incident in today's qualifying, which saw the Spaniard hold up his teammate Lewis Hamilton, causing the Briton to lose the opportunity to run another flying lap."

Now that's a very interesting comment!

In other words. Mr Ron and Macca were lying?

[DonnieDarco]

And in the interests of fairness, I will link to this:

http://www.afp.com/english/news/stories/070804225129.wn94e73q.html

I think the reason Ron went mad was because they did agree to hold Alonso back for a time and they did, but he then took it a step further with the aid of his man on the pitwall, until Lewis couldn't get out in time to make a final lap :D

[Fallingwater]

And to think that the whole issue has to do with the fact that LH was hypothetically going to make a perfect lap. I'm curious. What if he had actually managed to make that lap and still not get P1? Would the situation be any different?

[Ian McC]

I was somewhat surprised at RD's reaction - throwing his headset off like a spoilt brat... Proof I think that he does favour the Mc love child over FA... After all - ethnic wins F1 Championship in first season will pull in buckets of sponsorship.. Cynical? Maybe but I'm sure that's what he's aiming at and is peeved that FA doesn't like it and isn't prepared to play RD's little game..

But what will RD have in store for FA tomorrow... A problem with the fuel rig or a wheel gun or some other little trick to ensure LH gets in front... ?


I would think it had more to do with one of his drivers disgusting behaviour, certainly more likely than any of the rubbish you posted there.

[donKey jote]

Justice will be done if Ron pulls them both out tomorrow and gives them and himself a good spanking instead :p :

check this out: http://www.crash.net/comment_thread.asp?cid=1&ctid=110

The explanation given by Alonso as to why at the expiration of the 20 second period he remained in his pit stop position for a further 10 seconds is not accepted. The Stewards find that he unnecessarily impeded another driver, Hamilton, and as a result he will be penalised by a loss of 5 grid positions.

The explanation given by the team as to why they kept Mr Alonso stationary for 20 seconds after completion of his tyre change and therefore delayed Hamilton's own pit stop is not accepted.

[tinchote]

Amazing by RD

ffirst he tries to lay blame on LH and says it is/was the teams decision in an attmept to protect FA ( but seriously what choice did he have) his only ammunition was that LH disobayed orders to let FA go by. But now that the verdic has been handed out, he is backtracking and trying to lay the blame back on Alonso's doorstep to avoid loosing WCC points.

He just screwed himself royaly either way, instead of just saying that FA waited to long. In that way, he would have at least got to keep his WCC points andonly suffer a 5 place grid demotion for FA ( which still would have given him a winning or podium chance)



It is really interesting to have concrete evidence of RD's lies.

[Daika]

"Reference to the circuit map shows that at the time Alonso was told he would be held for 20 seconds there were but 4 cars on the circuit, his own and those of Fisichella, Hamilton and Raikkonen. All but Raikkonen entered the pits such that there can have been no necessity to keep Alonso in the pits for 20 seconds waiting for a convenient gap in traffic in which to leave."

Fia statement http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61373

So the track was cleared!! Alonso shouldn't have waited 10 sec to leave!!

[truefan72]

And in the interests of fairness, I will link to this:

http://www.afp.com/english/news/stories/070804225129.wn94e73q.html

I think the reason Ron went mad was because they did agree to hold Alonso back for a time and they did, but he then took it a step further with the aid of his man on the pitwall, until Lewis couldn't get out in time to make a final lap :D


That article just about sums it up

thanks

[Valve Bounce]

"The stewards said they did not accept the team's explanations nor Alonso's for the incident in today's qualifying, which saw the Spaniard hold up his teammate Lewis Hamilton, causing the Briton to lose the opportunity to run another flying lap."

Now that's a very interesting comment!

In other words. Mr Ron and Macca were lying?

Yep!! that's what everyone here thinks also.

[truefan72]

It is really interesting to have concrete evidence of RD's lies.

http://www.afp.com/english/news/stor....wn94e73q.html

read the aformentioned article please
and the official verdict by the stewarts which contradicts in facts and RD's assertions. In my book that's lying

[Ian McC]

Well, Alonso has cost himself a demotion to sixth, his to gain no points and brought disrepute on McLaren.

Pretty disgusting really.

[Nicos]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61373

[tinchote]

http://www.afp.com/english/news/stor....wn94e73q.html

read the aformentioned article please
and the official verdict by the stewarts which contradicts in facts and RD's assertions. In my book that's lying

Oh, I wasn't contradicting you. I've been calling RD a liar for a long time, and I did it a few times yesterday and today, before all this. I'm just enjoying the fact that now I have very concrete evidence against anyone who wants to deny it :)

[Ian McC]

Alonso was asked why he waited for some 10 seconds before leaving the pits after being given the signal to leave. His response was that he was enquiring as to whether the correct set of tyres had been fitted to his car. When asked why this conversation did not take place during the 20 second period when his car sat stationary all work on it having been completed, it was stated that it was not possible to communicate by radio because of the countdown being given to him.

Sorry Alonso, I retract my previous apology, you're a disgrace :down:

[Timber]

for someone who's been on this forum for a NY minute, you surely have me figured out. I never disliked Alonso until he started complaining to anyone who would listen and making ridiculous comments to reporters, ALL because his teammate was beating him. According to FA's world ,his teammate should not be challenging him, why, because at Renault he was given the #1 and dominant status with the team.

Although I complained about his unnecessary gesturing, last year and his Testing incidents, I had no issues with him. But of late, it seems very clear that his antics have taken a more darker tone to the point where he feels he has to cheat (...I'm sorry, take full advantage of the regulations) That is my issue with the man. RD never favored Hamilton over Alonso and was about a few test sessions away from having an all Spanish lineup for McClaren in 2008. He obviously made the right call as Hamilton is leading the WDC. The team initially gave preferential treatment to the 2 time WDC as rightfully they should have. But Hamilton, drove his ass off, didn't make any mistakes and took the challenge to the track. Yes he complained in Monaco because he thought that the time had come for him to receive equal treatment. This clearly unnerved Alonso who wasn't interested in equal status. He has finally come to grips with Hamilton being a worthy advisory and is using every trick in the book to keep him back.

There are a few posters here who have joined the forum for the sole purpose of bashing LH. and in a few case I smell a hint of discriminatory undertones.

The simple truth is that it is Alonso who has invited the criticism and not the other way around. I don't see conspiracies in every corner, or believe in trashing a driver for the sake of trashing him because he drives a Ferrari, McClaren or because I don't like the driver. I see the incidents, read the interviews, and respond to their actions.

IMO this incident only makes FA look bad no matter what the stewards, FIA or the team choose to do. It just confirms to everyone that LH in his rookie year in F1 has already gotten the better of FA and pretty much the entire field. Instead of Alonso rising to the challenge he sinks to unsporting tactics.
Like my Wife said this morning " I'm not saying something's wrong, but something ain't right"

First of all i haven't been on this forum a little bit longer then a minute
but even if i was i have the right to voice my opinion just like you do ...
Second , i am amaze by the knowledge that you have as to what happen inside the MacLaren team , who does what and who knows what , what orders i given , just by reading and watching on TV .
I have been following F1 since the early days and i think that it going down the wrong path for a while now . Drivers that are getting to drive not because of their talent but because they bring money to the team or they have a famous racing last name . Teams manager that only hire drivers that
under their management firm ( Flavio ) . A Napoleon wannabe who makes millions for himself . I team that is caught with another team secret papers and that is not punish for it ( industrial spying ) I could go on but i guess i
will stop here for now ..

[Mikeall]

If everything that has been said is to be considered this is the way things are...

Ron Dennis said the team allow the drivers to take it in turns to lead the fuel burn phase and therefore have a chance of completing an extra lap. This race was apparently designated as Alonso's turn. The fact that Alonso did not line up directly behind Hamilton may be an indicator. Ron Dennis said Hamilton was instructed to allow Alonso through instead he refused. Some reports say he was told six times.

It then appears Hamilton (and his engineers most likely) decided he should race round to complete the extra lap and claim back an extra lap of fuel. Alonso and his team decided they would not be able to do this and replanned their session to conserve as much as fuel as possible as it would not be possible to complete an extra lap if they followed Hamilton and pitted after him. Alonso could be seen to be driving much slower than Hamilton and backing into Raikkonen. This would also theoretically give them more flexibility to find gaps on the track to help ensue a clean lap. This was then compromised by the tyre blanket problem but did not make much of a difference.

Due to Alonso lapping slower and the delays at his last stop Hamilton was not far behind him. Alonso was allowed to leave by the pit crew but according to McLaren was being counted down by the engineers. Was this in order to find him the best stop or was it because the felt aggrieved at having their strategy deliberately compromised by Hamilton, or was it a McLaren team decision to restore the correct order in their eyes either because Hamilton behaved improperly or that they favour Alonso?

When he was released Alonso beat Hamilton's time and Hamilton did not have time to post another competitive time or reclaim the extra fuel burn lap which he perhaps he shouldn't rightly have had.

Either way McLaren were one two on the grid and looking set for a one two and 18 points. The problems in qualifying were internal and did not benefit or harm the chances of any of the other competitors outside of the team and any action within the team could be taken as was seen to be appropriate.

However the media weren't happy, the fans weren't happy something had to be done. Hours of discussions were held and a verdict was reached, no action would be taken, or was it? Bizarrely Alonso is pushed back 5 places, and McLaren are excluded from scoring championship points. Many feel happy with this verdict as Hamilton is on pole and he is the current media darling (at least in the British press). McLaren have publicly blamed no one except Hamilton, yet he escapes punishment and everyone else is penalised. No doubt the Spanish media will cry foul and bring up last years stewards decision at Monza...

Interestingly the main beneficiaries of this scenario will be Ferrari who had looked likely to take a massive hit in the constructors championship... So now how does this tie in with the spying row, may it help pacify Ferrari?

And the story isn't over McLaren are racing under appeal over the constructor points loss. If they score no points will the appeal be dropped? However Alonso's grid penalty cannot be appealed against as there is no time and the stewards decision is therefore final. If McLaren's appeal is upheld it would mean Alonso would have been punished incorrectly which could affect the driver's championship, therefore more outrage from the Spanish media and maybe others. The FIA therefore cannot uphold the appeal...

I can't wait to see an official statement but I can say I'm loving the inter team rivalries getting serious.

[Mikeall]

Just read it. So what was said in those 10 seconds by who and to to whom?

[truefan72]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61373

Wow!

so that is the whole story righ there for all to read. Both the team and FA were found guilty individually for unsporting conduct.

I still beleive McClaren will run away with the WCC, but this incident has sullyed their name and damged the reputation of fA, exactly not waht they needed with stepney-gate appeals around the corner.

[Daika]

However the media weren't happy, the fans weren't happy something had to be done. Hours of discussions were held and a verdict was reached, no action would be taken, or was it? Bizarrely Alonso is pushed back 5 places, and McLaren are excluded from scoring championship points. Many feel happy with this verdict as Hamilton is on pole and he is the current media darling (at least in the British press). McLaren have publicly blamed no one except Hamilton, yet he escapes punishment and everyone else is penalised. No doubt the Spanish media will cry foul and bring up last years stewards decision at Monza...

Interestingly the main beneficiaries of this scenario will be Ferrari who had looked likely to take a massive hit in the constructors championship... So now how does this tie in with the spying row, may it help pacify Ferrari?



It is all Mclaren's own making, by your account Ferrari were right in 2002 farce? Because ferrari were heading for a 1-2 anyway, doesn't matter that Barichello was forced to move aside!

[Valve Bounce]

First of all i haven't been on this forum a little bit longer then a minute
but even if i was i have the right to voice my opinion just like you do ...
Second , i am amaze by the knowledge that you have as to what happen inside the MacLaren team , who does what and who knows what , what orders i given , just by reading and watching on TV .
I have been following F1 since the early days and i think that it going down the wrong path for a while now . Drivers that are getting to drive not because of their talent but because they bring money to the team or they have a famous racing last name . Teams manager that only hire drivers that
under their management firm ( Flavio ) . A Napoleon wannabe who makes millions for himself . I team that is caught with another team secret papers and that is not punish for it ( industrial spying ) I could go on but i guess i
will stop here for now ..

You'd better, so you can read the FIA release/report. I guess the FIA Stewards know a little more of what's going inside Ron Dennis's head as well as Alonso. I always thought Alonso was a great driver, but I've lost all respect for the guy now.

[Valve Bounce]

Just read it. So what was said in those 10 seconds by who and to to whom? His trainer, who was giving him the extra count down.

[truefan72]

Oh, I wasn't contradicting you. I've been calling RD a liar for a long time, and I did it a few times yesterday and today, before all this. I'm just enjoying the fact that now I have very concrete evidence against anyone who wants to deny it :)

OK , sorry if I misread your intentions. As someone said all the team managers are not really endearing figures. from RD, to Flavio,right down to STR guys, they all have a mesionic complex about their roles in F1

[donKey jote]

So naughty Lewis decides once again (after Monaco) not to follow "team requests", and McLaren again pay the price :dozey: :laugh:

[DonnieDarco]

Alonso wasn't punished incorrectly though, he very clearly had help from his man on the pitwall to ensure hamilton would not get that final lap. Its against the rules to impede another driver.

They can appeal that the punishment is unduly harsh, but not that. I don't think it is unduly harsh, but they can try :D

And the other point about it is that the stewards said the whole team were holding up another driver, which they definitely can't deny because we have the footage :D

[donKey jote]

His trainer, who was giving him the extra count down.

Link Please :bounce: :laugh:

[Cozzie]

THAT WAS DISGUSTING!

I have lost every bit of respect I had for my former favourite driver, Fernando Alonso. That is the dirtiest thing I have ever seen done by a team-mate! In my opinion that is worse than Suzuka 1989! You could tell Lewis was furious during the press conference and Ron too. I would not blame Lewis at all if he accidentally cut into Alonso at some stage tomorrow (hopefully when he is lapping him) as that was horrible!

But the penalty the FIA have imposed is just as bad! I thought it would be more suitable if Alonso was dropped to the back of the grid and his points suspended for this race. The penalty hurts Lewis as well!

[DonnieDarco]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SB6GFNyDHho&NR=1

Am I ok to post this? If not, I can take it down again.

[Timber]

You'd better, so you can read the FIA release/report. I guess the FIA Stewards know a little more of what's going inside Ron Dennis's head as well as Alonso. I always thought Alonso was a great driver, but I've lost all respect for the guy now.

i was not talking about the stewarts , i was talking about your knolwledge
you seem to know a lot about what is going on inside the McLaren team .
And by the way , Alonso is a great driver !!!!!

[truefan72]

First of all i haven't been on this forum a little bit longer then a minute
but even if i was i have the right to voice my opinion just like you do ...
Second , i am amaze by the knowledge that you have as to what happen inside the MacLaren team , who does what and who knows what , what orders i given , just by reading and watching on TV .
I have been following F1 since the early days and i think that it going down the wrong path for a while now . Drivers that are getting to drive not because of their talent but because they bring money to the team or they have a famous racing last name . Teams manager that only hire drivers that
under their management firm ( Flavio ) . A Napoleon wannabe who makes millions for himself . I team that is caught with another team secret papers and that is not punish for it ( industrial spying ) I could go on but i guess i
will stop here for now ..

fair enough, my point with the time on this forum wasn't to dnegrade you value just to point out that you haven't had the liberty of reading my posts prior to march of this year in which I have often praised Alonso and commended him on his driving and guile.

All your points are exceptionally valid

[truefan72]

So naughty Lewis decides once again (after Monaco) not to follow "team requests", and McLaren again pay the price :dozey: :laugh:


is that how you read it. :)