Gronholm 2008? [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

Roy

31st July 2007, 15:53

http://www.crash.net/news_view~cid~4~id~152147.htm

Gronholm has confirmed that he will make a decision about next year.
He praise the 'Young' guns Hirvonen and Sodo. " They're the future" he say.

What is good, what do we think?

A annalyse from some points of views:

Gronholm
If Gronholm is champion after this year it will be great year to stop. He is on high level. You must stop on your best. If he loose the title he knows he can't cath it in 2008 (maybe).
It is for him important he can still win in Finland. If he loose here know. All is over.

Ford
For Ford is it difficult if they loose a great driver. Hirvonen is good, but not good enough to beatle Loeb. Who is the second driver for the battle in Championship. Is latvala All ready?
And If he stay Ford drives with 1 and 2 on the car. That is be a magnificant marketing.

WRC.
The sport missing a great driver and a champion. A fast driver stand up soon, but for 2008 it will be boring, I think with only one winner....

leno

31st July 2007, 19:35

i think he will finish his carrer after this season

Corny

31st July 2007, 20:01

Michael Schumacher learned me that the best time to quit is when you're still on top, so maybe it's better for Marcus to retire indeed, even though I would miss him!

Woodeye

31st July 2007, 20:17

Grönholm has said in about 25 Finnish newspapers and magazines during the last two weeks that at the moment he doesn't know what he will do 2008. He said that the "feeling" after 1000 lakes will pretty much determine the future.

leno

31st July 2007, 20:44

I hope he will stey in WRC at least for next season otherwise no one cant fight with Loeb for victory :(

SubaruNorway

31st July 2007, 21:50

Everyone over in Finland make sure Grönholm has a great time this weekend and maybe he will stay

Tom206wrc

31st July 2007, 22:02

i think he will finish his carrer after this season

He won't want to drive a Focus with Pirelli tyres :p :

Magnus

1st August 2007, 07:23

I hope Bosse quits after this season. He has done an amazing work this year, and even if he doesn´t become world champ, he has shown that he has the capability of beating Loeb. It would be sad to se him drop down the board, getting spanked by Latvala, Henning, and the other guys. These days will come if he hangs on, simply because he is aging. No matter how good a driver is, this is one fact you can not avoid by altering any settings.
We must remeber that Loeb is exceptional. As I have said before on this forum, it may be Bosses greatest achievement that he has succeeded in keeping the pressure up on Loeb, and maybe that is what we will remeber him from in the the future.

Woodeye

1st August 2007, 08:17

It would be sad to se him drop down the board, getting spanked by Latvala, Henning, and the other guys. These days will come if he hangs on, simply because he is aging.

There's no way that Henning will ever be faster than Bosse, and it will take 3 years at least when Latvala is able to challenge him. If ever.

Miika

1st August 2007, 08:28

There's no way that Henning will ever be faster than Bosse, and it will take 3 years at least when Latvala is able to challenge him. If ever.

Agreed. But if Mikko is able to match Marcus´pace this weekend in all the stages then it could be the right time to call it quits. But I really doubt that would happen.

COD

1st August 2007, 08:52

I think he has told the truth, that he doesn't know himself what to do. If the 12 round series would be in allready 2008 it would be easier for him to continue, but with all the traveling involved in 16 rounds maybe that is what makes him quit?

cut the b.s.

1st August 2007, 09:53

Michael Schumacher taught me that the best time to quit is when you're still on top, so maybe it's better for Marcus to retire indeed, even though I would miss him!

Michael did quit at the top, if you are saying he should have stopped as champion how many do you think he should have won before quitting? Had he had the 'stop when the goings good' approach he would never have got to 7 titles...
Had he wanted he would have been at the top this year also, time to quit is when you discover there are other things in life you would rather be doing

N.O.T

1st August 2007, 11:13

Gronholm has nowhere to go from now on but down as far as his performance goes...i don't think that he will be able to find some extra speed to challenge Loeb next year so the choice is either retire, go to a new team like suzuki and develop the car but forgeting good results (pretty much something like kankkunen was in hyundai and auriol to skoda) and of course he can choose the makinen option......

jonkka

1st August 2007, 12:03

It is all mental and only down to whether he is willing to continue or not. At the moment Ford would not have anyone to replace him so Malcolm will no doubt want Marcus to carry on. Marcus' facial expression in Monday's presentation was one of having been through enough interviews and judging by that, I wouldn't be surprised if he calls it a day.

Speedwise N.O.T is correct, there hardly is a way up for Marcus in terms of out-and-out speed but to expect his performance drop drastically is folly. At the moment he's only 13th at the list of all-time oldest WRC winners. Both Auriol and Sainz were 42 when they won Catalunya 2001 and Argentina 2004 respectively. Since Safari was dropped, it is almost impossible for any modern driver to surpass Waldegard's record of winning at 46 years of age but certainly there is more fire in Marcus still.

In fact, of the WRC event winners, only Joaquim Moutinho and Henri Toivonen won on their last season in WRC. Everyone else had more or less slow fade to retirement.

Woodeye

1st August 2007, 13:18

Marcus' facial expression in Monday's presentation was one of having been through enough interviews and judging by that, I wouldn't be surprised if he calls it a day.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to that. I think he looks p*ssed almost every time when interviewed.. :D

amberie

2nd August 2007, 07:28

I wouldn't pay too much attention to that. I think he looks p*ssed almost every time when interviewed.. :D

Hehe...very true. But I've noticed that Marcus looks more disinterested and less energetic than before. He's as fast as ever, though. Nobody wants him to retire, but I'm afraid Marcus feels differently. Frankly, it'd be a surprise if he decides to stay.

Jonkka: that's a lot of very precise info! Could it be due to your fantastic website? :)

A.F.F.

2nd August 2007, 09:11

Erki

2nd August 2007, 10:11

In fact, of the WRC event winners, only Joaquim Moutinho and Henri Toivonen won on their last season in WRC. Everyone else had more or less slow fade to retirement.

Didn't Sainz also win in 2004? Argentina maybe? I didn't count his two rallies in 2005 as a season though.

Priorat

2nd August 2007, 10:45

Could Marcus retirement lead to Seb's quit also due to boredom?

Erki

2nd August 2007, 14:30

Could Marcus retirement lead to Seb's quit also due to boredom?

If Pescarolo really gets a Peugeot diesel, Seb might even make a switch into sportscars, he seemed to quite like it last time. :)

And apparently Sordo also wants to go do DTM... :confused:

jonkka

2nd August 2007, 17:20

Didn't Sainz also win in 2004? Argentina maybe? I didn't count his two rallies in 2005 as a season though.

That can be argued, I took the harshest view. At any rate, if Gronholm would retire now, he'd be the most successful of the drivers on their final season and my point was that no rally driver has yet retired after so successful season. Just an observation.

jonkka

2nd August 2007, 17:23

Jonkka: that's a lot of very precise info! Could it be due to your fantastic website? :)

That's exactly how and why. Got some missing portrait photos from Jyväskylä shakedown again today, so the site will be that little much improved again.

bryst

31st August 2007, 12:39

Has Marcus Gronholm announced his retirement yet !!!I didn't think he'd made up his mind yet but While watching this mornings live SS broadcast on eurosport 2 the commentator was going on about who would fill Gronholms seat next season. He also said Peter Solberg was the most likely replacement. Does this guy know something we don't or is he just guessing. This commentator who usually does the Dakar is the most boring I've heard and he is always getting things wrong, why do Eurosport employ him. I hope as I suspect that he is wrong yet again.

Daniel

31st August 2007, 12:41

I don't think he will retire. Can someone please edit the thread title to not make people think Gronholm has actually announced his retirement.....

A.F.F.

31st August 2007, 13:06

Mr.Wilson has given Marcus time till Rally Catalonya. Then he will say if he continues his career or not. Like Marcus said himself, the odds are fifty-sixty :)

Daniel

31st August 2007, 13:08

Good work senor Janneppi :D

bryst

31st August 2007, 13:58

Sorry boys didn't mean to scare you, I was just asking a question that's what the question marks are for.

Daniel

31st August 2007, 14:08

How about the exclamation marks on the thread title?

pino

31st August 2007, 14:14

How about the exclamation marks on the thread title?

Where ? :confused:

Magnus

2nd September 2007, 09:36

Daniel

2nd September 2007, 09:48

J.Lindstroem

2nd September 2007, 09:59

With a 0,3 secs win under his belt (is this getting dirty...?) it could just aswell been Loeb who won in NZ. I really hope that Bosse takes his achievements and puts them in the locker after this season. I would feel terrible if Bosse made another Mäkinen.

I'd say Tommi quitted rallying at the exact right point of his career. He was still at the top, sometimes he was beating Solberg, and he had 3 top 3 finishes in his last season. That is not bad. Wha´t happened was that it came new stars taking over his role, i whould actually love it if Marcus and Seb continued a couple of more years so se could see them beeing beated by some new stars like Latvala, Sordo, Hirvonen and guys like that. Just like Colin, Carlos and Tommi was back in 2003-2004.

Do you know what i am saying?

GigiGalliNo1

2nd September 2007, 10:18

I'd say Tommi quitted rallying at the exact right point of his career. He was still at the top, sometimes he was beating Solberg, and he had 3 top 3 finishes in his last season. That is not bad. Wha´t happened was that it came new stars taking over his role, i whould actually love it if Marcus and Seb continued a couple of more years so se could see them beeing beated by some new stars like Latvala, Sordo, Hirvonen and guys like that. Just like Colin, Carlos and Tommi was back in 2003-2004.

Do you know what i am saying?

I basicly said and always think the same thing! You'd want to leave when your doing great rather then start to tumble down with many retirements and been seen struggling.... but it good timing for Makinen... maybe if he left a year earlier it would have been better but I think Marcus... well uncertain now about him retiring.... :(

Magnus

2nd September 2007, 11:00

nah, i do not like development. I want to be able to say that everything was better before, when Bosse (for example)was around. He would have beaten latvala and the bunch like nothing. But if Bosse hangs on then I can´t say that things were better before...
Mäkinen was haunted by bad luck his last year with Subaru, he did fairly well I believe, but Solberg was on a high and made Mäkinen look worse than he actually was. mäkinen had so much mechanical problems it´s rediculous. Reminds me of some whale...
I keep my fingers crossed for latvala as a future Bosse/Loeb.

Priorat

2nd September 2007, 12:46

i whould actually love it if Marcus and Seb continued a couple of more years so se could see them beeing beated by some new stars like Latvala, Sordo, Hirvonen and guys like that. Just like Colin, Carlos and Tommi was back in 2003-2004.

Do you know what i am saying?

Marcus and Seb could turn sixty before the rest get close to them

Corny

2nd September 2007, 14:07

Marcus and Seb could turn sixty before the rest get close to them

I thought the same about a certain Michael Schumacher once ;)

J.Lindstroem

2nd September 2007, 14:32

Marcus and Seb could turn sixty before the rest get close to them

ARE YOU JOKING OR ARE YOU STUPID?

Priorat

2nd September 2007, 14:49

ARE YOU JOKING OR ARE YOU STUPID?

ARE YOU STUPID OR ARE YOU BLIND?

SubaruNorway

2nd September 2007, 15:09

ARE YOU STUPID OR ARE YOU BLIND?

Hirvonen has beaten both, Sordo has beaten Grönholm and pushed Loeb realy hard sometimes. Latvala has led a rally on atleast one ocation in Finland.

J.Lindstroem

2nd September 2007, 16:08

ARE YOU STUPID OR ARE YOU BLIND?

Actually i am quite stupid.... :P

Priorat

2nd September 2007, 16:20

Actually i am quite stupid.... :P

Ok. Stop this here. Just thought these comments didn't deserve to call us stupid.

A.F.F.

2nd September 2007, 16:36

I don't know much about anything but I do know this, Marcus RARELY has celebrated his win like he did earlier this morning in NZ. Hopefully this win reminds him how fun it is to rally... let's say for a couple of years longer ;)

GigiGalliNo1

2nd September 2007, 17:07

i'm blind

White Sauron

2nd September 2007, 17:20

Oh damn... Duval will participate in Spain...( Bad news for Marcus...

Xsara Fan

2nd September 2007, 17:35

Oh damn... Duval will participate in Spain...( Bad news for Marcus...

More than that, Van Dalen want him to participate in Tour de Corse!

Magnus

2nd September 2007, 17:53

Ooops, bad for Marcus... Two thirds on tar makes 8 pts to Loeb.

Wim_Impreza

2nd September 2007, 19:12

Oh damn... Duval will participate in Spain...( Bad news for Marcus...

Duval was never even good in Spain as in Germany. ;)

N.O.T

2nd September 2007, 23:15

Duval is not such a big threat to Marcus in spain.....in Corsica maybe.....and also in Ireland.....

bt52b

3rd September 2007, 00:55

Duval is not such a big threat to Marcus in spain.....in Corsica maybe.....and also in Ireland.....

Bosse was good in Ireland in Feb, got a good setup, but would have prefered more rain. Mikko is driving in Cork, so I would expect Ford to have a better setup.

duff

3rd September 2007, 02:08

Magnus

3rd September 2007, 06:47

Exactly my opinion Duff!

Xsara Fan

3rd September 2007, 09:29

Duval is not such a big threat to Marcus in spain.....in Corsica maybe.....and also in Ireland.....

Catalunya 2006 – 6 position (with Skoda Fabia)
Catalunya 2005 – 2 position (with Xsara WRC)
Catalunya 2004 – retired (suspension problems)
Catalunya 2003 – 4 position

Hmmm...

Josti

3rd September 2007, 10:44

I rather see Sordo as Bosse's tackle point, then Duval to be honest. Nevertheless, a hard job for the Ford boys in the upcoming tarmac events.

Daniel

3rd September 2007, 10:49

Finni

3rd September 2007, 11:22

Granted that last year Bosse had roughly similar pace with Seb in Catalunya Duval shouldn't be too big problem. Germany is Duval's parade rally and even there they had tight fight.

I would rather say that Dani Sordo is problem. If Marcus beats Sordo he is on the edge of beating Seb. Mark my words.

Finni

3rd September 2007, 11:24

By the way, Atkinson might be dangerous. Judging by his Germany pace we might see him on podium if he reaches the end without mistakes.

malscar

3rd September 2007, 11:27

I only want Marcus to give up when he is not enjoying it anymore. Even if he is a little slower, he has a huge amount of experience to help any team with.

jacko

3rd September 2007, 11:56

Marcus seems right now on the best days of his career, so it would be strange to leave at the end of the year. Why do need to stop on your best?
Let's make Marcus his decision, if he wants to drive and all the circus around him for another year i will be happy, even if he can't catch the speed of others but i doubt that!

jacko

3rd September 2007, 12:02

Now Duval is comming, yes it will be a man to watch for Marcus but i think he's very strong at the moment and with a good start he could be put Loeb under pressure for sure, also Hirvonen could be especially in Spain a man to watch. About the Subarus's, let's wait and see...

Citroën's decision to bring on Duval, well what's the problem with that..?
Ford could be bringing a Benque or Sola extra, both very fast on tarmac and i think capable on running with the best in front and to help Marcus...

Daniel

3rd September 2007, 12:32

Citroen and Peugeot never brought in specialist drivers half way through the season when Marcus and Seb won their titles. That changed this year with Citroen bringing Duval in.

jacko

3rd September 2007, 13:17

Citroen and Peugeot never brought in specialist drivers half way through the season when Marcus and Seb won their titles. That changed this year with Citroen bringing Duval in.

so..?? If i'm correct is that against sporting rules or something?? Duval is still with a car from 2005 on the road, not a C4. If Marcus wants to become the world champion again he has to deliver at least one better finish on tarmac than Loeb, so yes he has to beat Duval, Sordo, Atkinson and Hirvonen too..
Don't think Ford or Gronholm himself is thinking like you, it's just a competitor extra..

About the past: specially Peugeot had their specialist in extra rounds, last example: they did bring Lindholm in a third 307 in Finland. Citroen (Kronos) nominated McRae last season when there was hope he could match the speed of Marcus but he didn't..

You compare this with the days of Gronholm winning the titles, but you forget on those days all the good drivers had a contract with some team, Loeb's first 2 titles where already clear midpoint season so there wasn't any need to bring some extra specialist.

Daniel

3rd September 2007, 13:22

McRae replaced Loeb. Lindholm was always going to be there in Finland.

I'm just saying that if Loeb wins by a couple of points it's all down to Duval being there :) I simply don't think Ford has the money to bring in a specialist and tbh it'd be pointless. No one is really quicker than Loeb on gravel on most events other than Gronholm and no one has a chance of finishing in front of Loeb on tarmac other than Duval and Citroen have already got him onboard.

jacko

3rd September 2007, 13:51

McRae replaced Loeb. Lindholm was always going to be there in Finland.

So that doesn't count :s

I'm just saying that if Loeb wins by a couple of points it's all down to Duval being there :) I simply don't think Ford has the money to bring in a specialist and tbh it'd be pointless. No one is really quicker than Loeb on gravel on most events other than Gronholm and no one has a chance of finishing in front of Loeb on tarmac other than Duval and Citroen have already got him onboard.

I call it good strategie, besides if Gronholm looses the title down to a few points it's Duval that has done it.. ? always the IF situation.. If Loeb didn't made the 2 mistakes this year he was already in control for the title...
I say: if Marcus wants to win it he has to fight against Citroën and when he succeed the taste of champagne will be even better!!
I think marcus can do the job, Duval in or out :)

Langdale Forest

3rd September 2007, 13:57

I think Gronholm will win the championship this year but retire at the end of 2008.

rus

3rd September 2007, 14:04

I think Marcus can still win it but having Duval and Sordo driving in good tarmac cars is going to make it hard. A little sad if Loeb win's the title because Citroen buys the championship by paying Duval's salary in a "private" Xsara :mark:

No worries. Bosse can count on Wilson Jr to catch the title... ;)

MikeD

3rd September 2007, 14:18

I still think the biggest question is: "Is Gronholm having a DNF coming his way before the end of the season?".

When was the last time a rally driver completed a whole rally season without a DNF? I can't think of any (but my memory aren't that good, either :) )

White Sauron

3rd September 2007, 14:24

MikeD

3rd September 2007, 14:33

At the moment Marcus has 20 points finishes in a row - it's more than anybody else and more than 1 season!

Ok, impressive. But then it's even more likely that he has one coming his way...

White Sauron

3rd September 2007, 14:39

Ok, impressive. But then it's even more likely that he has one coming his way...

hope not)

Daniel

3rd September 2007, 14:41

Ok, impressive. But then it's even more likely that he has one coming his way...
Not really. The likelihood is the same as it ever was. You're falling into the old gamblers fallacy. I've had so many bad hands that this next hand MUST be good! Not true. The only sucker at poker table is you ;)

Priorat

3rd September 2007, 15:06

I think Marcus can still win it but having Duval and Sordo driving in good tarmac cars is going to make it hard. A little sad if Loeb win's the title because Citroen buys the championship by paying Duval's salary in a "private" Xsara :mark:

This year's Catalunya stages are so close to circuit racing that Ford could hire Kovalainen to help Marcus.

White Sauron

3rd September 2007, 15:15

This year's Catalunya stages are so close to circuit racing that Ford could hire Kovalainen to help Marcus.

By the way, as far as I know, last year Heikki already gave Marcus some lessons on closed circuit.

Daniel

3rd September 2007, 15:18

This year's Catalunya stages are so close to circuit racing that Ford could hire Kovalainen to help Marcus.
He could give me lessons. Doesn't mean I would be faster than Loeb. Even if Kankkunen, Pentti, Mikkola and every other Finn were to give lessons to Loeb he'll still be no Gronholm in Finland and likewise for Gronholm on tarmac.

Priorat

3rd September 2007, 15:20

By the way, as far as I know, last year Heikki already gave Marcus some lessons on closed circuit.

And, if I'm not wrong, he beat Loeb on tarmac in a Rally Car at the Race of Champions

Daniel

3rd September 2007, 15:29

And, if I'm not wrong, he beat Loeb on tarmac in a Rally Car at the Race of Champions
Wow. So now Marcus clearly has the edge on indoor tarmac tracks in stadiums :rolleyes:

jacko

3rd September 2007, 15:38

This year's Catalunya stages are so close to circuit racing that Ford could hire Kovalainen to help Marcus.

.. :p i think if there's a chance Renault could tease the PSA group a bit they will do it :)

Priorat

3rd September 2007, 15:43

He could give me lessons. Doesn't mean I would be faster than Loeb. Even if Kankkunen, Pentti, Mikkola and every other Finn were to give lessons to Loeb he'll still be no Gronholm in Finland and likewise for Gronholm on tarmac.

You haven't understood me. I was joking about putting Heikki in a Focus WRC to beat Loeb in Ral.li Catalunya.
I'm sorry I haven't managed very well with the icons...

Daniel

3rd September 2007, 15:45

OK not a problem :cheese: Your English is better than my Catalan or Spanish (hope I've chosen your language ;) )

Priorat

3rd September 2007, 15:50

OK not a problem :cheese: Your English is better than my Catalan or Spanish (hope I've chosen your language ;) )

Right. It's Catalan like Xevi Pons, but I try not to scream like him.

Finni

3rd September 2007, 15:51

At least Atkinson got tarmac lessons by Räikkönen's manager (ex track driver) and is driving greatly on tarmac. I think that there could be a point to use Kovalainen. If I have understood Heikki gave some asphalt lesson on track with civil Renault. This might not be efficient. If they would want to do it properly they should put Heikki to drive Focus in real road test (though so short that it's easy to memorize).

Daniel

3rd September 2007, 15:57

Right. It's Catalan like Xevi Pons, but I try not to scream like him.
It's easy when you don't always go off the road ;)

Priorat

3rd September 2007, 16:05

It's easy when you don't always go off the road ;)

Sure!

janvanvurpa

3rd September 2007, 18:50

The sad fact is that all drivers reach a used-by date. There is nothing you can do about it. At around age 40ish eyesight and reflexes start to deteriorate and the speed slips away. Its very rare for a driver to realise its happening - they just seem to get slower.

Marcus is still IMO the most competetive guy for his age in rally history, he is always still fighting up the front, at maximum speed, on every rally.
I just hope he quits when the time is right, which may be the end of this year. I'll miss Marcus in the championship but seeing him not being at the top any more would be far worse...

Duff while some reflexes for most people slow down, reflex in general is a trained reaction, and as long as you keep training the body/eyes, you can maintain a far higher level of reaction times than most people imagine is possible.
Second, with the years comes experience, and with experience comes the ability to AVOID making bigger mistakes in the first place so that lighting quick reactions aren't needed---you see ahead of time and position yourself and the car right before a problem develops.

15-18 years after I stop with International moto-cross, I still had much MUCH faster reactions for simple tests and games that younger guys, and in doing gravel rallies here is USA and Canada people commented that I tended not to make blunders very often which they thought was surprising because of my age and the infrequency of entering rallies.
I explained that nearly 20 years of racing motocross sets the reactions into the bones, and that I've looked at loose surface for a lot longer than guys who merely play 4-6 rallies a year.

I see no reason that Gronholm could not continue for many more years except being more aware of the other costs: Family/friends/social life.

And to those saying he should quit while on top:
If he quits without making those below actually beat him, then I say we'll always say that those newbies aren't legitimate, they're 2nd and third because there's noboby who's proven good ahead.

So he should stay on till the young 'uns and he fight regularly, then we can say they earned the top spots, and he can retire knowing he's passed his position to worthy opponents.