Scott Speed out at Toro Rosso? [Archive]

Chaparral66

24th July 2007, 17:36

There is a report at SPEEDTV.com by Robin Miller that Scott Speed, after a reported shouting and shoving match with team czar Franz Tost, has been given his pink slip. Miller points to an inside source for this; but also reports that Speed's father Mike says as far as he knows, Scott is testing in Italy next week. The article suggests that Sebastien Bourdais, who recently tested for Toro Rosso, will be in one of the Toro Rosso seats next year, and that an opportunity for Speed to come to Champ Car may happen, though Mike Speed said "We haven't discussed anything like that."

If anyone in Europe has heard anything about this, please reply to this post.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/38951/

COD

24th July 2007, 18:43

There is a story on http://www.crash.net that Speed could be replaced by Sebastien Vettel as soon as in Hungary. More there....

truefan72

24th July 2007, 18:48

STR denial is weak,

as they said

"There's no truth in that and Scott is also planned to be driving for our test in Mugello tomorrow and the day after tomorrow."

but what happens after testing. I suspect they will let him do the grunt work then fire him for Vettel. simply useless.

pits4me

24th July 2007, 20:42

Maybe Speed will be trading seats with Vettel?

markabilly

24th July 2007, 20:57

Quck question: Which is better----to test drive a BMW with people who have a clue about what they are doing, or to go to the Red Bull(s**T) of of berger and tost? :eek:
Scottie should swap in a heartbeat....

Well duh, the only question is why would Vettel be dumb enough to go...... :rolleyes:

gm99

24th July 2007, 20:57

Maybe Speed will be trading seats with Vettel?

No way, if you fall from the grace of Red Bull, you fall big time. And as Vettel's Renault World Series ride is sponsored by Red Bull, too, Speed won't get it. It'll probably go to some young gun who RB build up as the next big thing only to unceremoniously dump him at the first chance they get.

EDIT: Oh, I see you were talking about the testing role at BMW...They already have Glock and they don't really need two test drivers, anyway, especially with the testing regulations this season.

truefan72

24th July 2007, 23:46

No way, if you fall from the grace of Red Bull, you fall big time. And as Vettel's Renault World Series ride is sponsored by Red Bull, too, Speed won't get it. It'll probably go to some young gun who RB build up as the next big thing only to unceremoniously dump him at the first chance they get.

EDIT: Oh, I see you were talking about the testing role at BMW...They already have Glock and they don't really need two test drivers, anyway, especially with the testing regulations this season.

Trust me other teams around the paddock are looking at RBR and STR with bewilderment not in high esteem. So falling from grace there isn't a death nail to one's F1 career. Klien is now a test driver for Honda and has a few choices for 2008. Liuzzi and Speed will have some options for 2008 and 2009, if they can't find a race seat, I suggest they take a testing role.

As for BMW Glock is already getting up there in age while Speed and Liuzzi are still Young. McClaren might have a testing opportunity next year, so does pro drive, probably Honda, Super Aguri, Maybe Ferrari as well.

Falling from Grace from Red Bull means nothing nowerdays! For that fact it doesn't mean that much in any other team as well due to the politics and circumstances. But trust me RBR and STR are very close behind Spyker as having little credibility in the F1 heirachy. They have successfully proven that simply having the money doesn't mean you know how to spend it well. From mismanaging their young driver program, to not having a quality CFD engineer aolong with newey, etc, etc

e2mtt

24th July 2007, 23:55

I think Speed is out. STR hasn't seemed very fond of him all year, to say the least. (Or Luizi either!)

I think Speed will take a test job in a heartbeat... he really seems to want to succeed in F1, even it it takes the long way around to get there. Right now, I think a tester for a good team might be a better place then starting for STR. He will have to show us some fast Fridays, and he will be back in a seat before long.

BDunnell

25th July 2007, 00:07

Falling from Grace from Red Bull means nothing nowerdays! For that fact it doesn't mean that much in any other team as well due to the politics and circumstances. But trust me RBR and STR are very close behind Spyker as having little credibility in the F1 heirachy. They have successfully proven that simply having the money doesn't mean you know how to spend it well. From mismanaging their young driver program, to not having a quality CFD engineer aolong with newey, etc, etc

By the same token, being a failed Red Bull driver doesn't exactly carry much credibility, either!

truefan72

25th July 2007, 02:51

markabilly

25th July 2007, 03:02

not really,

pretty much everybody, sees the lap chart, live timing, telemetry and race performances, what they do understand is when a team fails the drivers as much as when the driver fails the team. is RBR and STR case it is more of a matter of the former.
Speed should jump up and celebrate as to a possible trade with BMW, and vettel should jump too, as in jump up and say NO :mad: :mad: :mad: NO :mad:

Placid

25th July 2007, 03:39

Trust me other teams around the paddock are looking at RBR and STR with bewilderment not in high esteem. So falling from grace there isn't a death nail to one's F1 career. Klien is now a test driver for Honda and has a few choices for 2008. Liuzzi and Speed will have some options for 2008 and 2009, if they can't find a race seat, I suggest they take a testing role.

As for BMW Glock is already getting up there in age while Speed and Liuzzi are still Young. McClaren might have a testing opportunity next year, so does pro drive, probably Honda, Super Aguri, Maybe Ferrari as well.

Falling from Grace from Red Bull means nothing nowerdays! For that fact it doesn't mean that much in any other team as well due to the politics and circumstances. But trust me RBR and STR are very close behind Spyker as having little credibility in the F1 heirachy. They have successfully proven that simply having the money doesn't mean you know how to spend it well. From mismanaging their young driver program, to not having a quality CFD engineer aolong with newey, etc, etc

A test ride will be the only option for Speed and Liuzzi. I would like to see Williams to take a chance with Speed. Certainly Sir Frank has Kazuki Nakajima as their official test driver along with Narain Karthykeyan, but it does not hurt to give him a chance.

Look at Fernando Alonso when he began with Minardi. Tested with Renault and look what has happen 2 championships later.

Hawkmoon

25th July 2007, 04:31

Berger didn't want to run with Liuzzi and Speed this season so it's no surprise that Speed is on the way out. I get the impression from a couple of articles in F1 Racing and on the web that Berger doesn't like his drivers approach to F1. Berger seems like a bit of a hard-arse that doesn't like excuses from his drivers. I don't know that Speed and Liuzzi have been making excuses but Berger doesn't seem too enamoured of them regardless.

I'm not so sure that Speed will find it all that easy to grab a test drivers role. It could depend on whether or not the likes of Ralf, Fisichella or Wurz have a race drive next year. If they don't then their places on the grid, if not their current seats, will probably be filled by the likes of Piquet Jnr and Vettel. That will open up a few test driver roles. If the old buggers race on ext year then I think Speed will find it difficult to find a seat, be it as a racer ot tester.

ArrowsFA1

25th July 2007, 08:28

Scott Speed is resigned to the idea that last weekend's European Grand Prix could be his final race for Scuderia Toro Rosso. In fact, he says, no amount of money would get him to work with his current team bosses in the future.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61125

Dave B

25th July 2007, 08:47

From the Autosport report it sounds like Speed's better off out of there :s

markabilly

25th July 2007, 16:04

to leave bmw and go red bulling with berger (who partied harder, crashed and made far bigger messes as a driver--was it not that Berger got into a fight with Senna as a rookie in a bar??---- than scottie ever did or probably will--maybe berger sees too much of himself in speedie--)

sonic_roadhog

25th July 2007, 16:30

L5->R5/CR

25th July 2007, 16:51

Speed has always struck me as one arrogant SOB, i remember hearing some pit radio last year where he was bitching he was slower than Liuzzi again, and threatening that 'heads would roll' if they didn't fix it. I mean seriously? I was staggered that he has kept his drive as long as he has and his departure is no big loss to F1.

Sonic :)

I think you mean hotter not slower.

There was a big to do because at a couple of races Speed's car was hotter at the start than Liuzzi's giving him a performance deficit at the starts. IRC Speed went to the team with the data and asked that it be addressed, the team told him they would make sure it was addressed at the next race and then Speed's car was like 15 degrees F hotter. If I went through that and already had inklings that the team favored the other driver and was intentionally giving me the short end of the stick I'd be pissed off as well.

Copse

25th July 2007, 19:53

Glock is already getting up there in age while Speed and Liuzzi are still Young.

Liuzzi: born 6 August 1981
Glock: born March 10, 1982
Speed: born 24 January 1983

yeah, 25-year-olds are really over the hill compared to those of 26 and 24 years ;)

Roamy

26th July 2007, 00:49

speed can probably make in excess of 3 mill per year pedaling around in a Champ Car. Why would he want to put up with Berger and tost bullsh!t. Especially in a low rent sled that is a POS.

Ranger

26th July 2007, 01:03

He's been quicker than Liuzzi (an F3000/GP2 champion) this year so if he's going to be dumped it'll be a result of politics. Good on him if he turns his back though - If I had to put up with that crap I'd be outta there faster than you could say lickkety-split! :\

Komahawk

26th July 2007, 14:16

You sure? After all, he gets paid quite well.

truefan72

26th July 2007, 16:04

Liuzzi: born 6 August 1981
Glock: born March 10, 1982
Speed: born 24 January 1983

yeah, 25-year-olds are really over the hill compared to those of 26 and 24 years ;)

hmm I stand corrected, I didn't check their ages, just looked at them and figured form the look of things that Glock was much older. He sure seems like it, or maybe it just seems like he's been around for a while. Either way I'll offer a mea culpa on that statement :)

truefan72

26th July 2007, 16:17

speed can probably make in excess of 3 mill per year pedaling around in a Champ Car. Why would he want to put up with Berger and tost bullsh!t. Especially in a low rent sled that is a POS.

At this point in his racing career, If I were Speed, I would much rather be a tester in F1 than a driver in the watered down Champ Car series. That would really be a tough journey back to F1 from there. Like it or not , Champ car has the reputation as a series full of content drivers with lower ambitions, satisfied to be in the series. It is also regarded as the hinterlands of top pro drive series. You will get decent and well paid drivers there, all of whom have resigned on the fact that this is the best they can do. This may be an unfair label but it's what the prevailing minds think. Look how long it has taken Bourdais to get into the good graces of the F1 folks.

As for the IRL, drivers there are a little more "competitive" but they don’t race enough configuration courses vs. ovals to get a proper evaluation of their skills. Next year with TC off, driver ability is going to play a slightly bigger factor. The only one out of that series with even a sniff would be Wheldon, but he is not willing to be a tester or join a lowly team (and rightfully so from his perspective)

So for Speed, Testing seems like the best option to stay on the radar if no seat avails itself for him in 2008. I do have a sneaky suspicion that we will see Speed racing in F1 next year, and sticking it to the STR guys. Even with the promise of a much improved car for 2008, ( which, of course Speed and Liuzzi will not get the benefit off, after struggling for 2 years in a uselless car) I still think STR will struggle. Speed shows some maxi that is required to succeed in F1. His comments are often poignant and honest. For those who think that's arrogance; get over it. there are at least a dozen drivers with far worse ego's than Speed.

e2mtt

26th July 2007, 23:21

At this point in his racing career, If I were Speed, I would much rather be a tester in F1 than a driver in the watered down Champ Car series. That would really be a tough journey back to F1 from there. Like it or not , Champ car has the reputation as a series full of content drivers with lower ambitions, satisfied to be in the series. It is also regarded as the hinterlands of top pro drive series. You will get decent and well paid drivers there, all of whom have resigned on the fact that this is the best they can do. This may be an unfair label but it's what the prevailing minds think. Look how long it has taken Bourdais to get into the good graces of the F1 folks.

As for the IRL, drivers there are a little more "competitive" but they don’t race enough configuration courses vs. ovals to get a proper evaluation of their skills. Next year with TC off, driver ability is going to play a slightly bigger factor. The only one out of that series with even a sniff would be Wheldon, but he is not willing to be a tester or join a lowly team (and rightfully so from his perspective)

So for Speed, Testing seems like the best option to stay on the radar if no seat avails itself for him in 2008. I do have a sneaky suspicion that we will see Speed racing in F1 next year, and sticking it to the STR guys. Even with the promise of a much improved car for 2008, ( which, of course Speed and Liuzzi will not get the benefit off, after struggling for 2 years in a uselless car) I still think STR will struggle. Speed shows some maxi that is required to succeed in F1. His comments are often poignant and honest. For those who think that's arrogance; get over it. there are at least a dozen drivers with far worse ego's than Speed.

Very well said.

(I agree, Champ Car would be about the absolute worst place for an F1 driver to go. With sports cars, you stay around at least some of the same people. NASCAR is very different, & gets lots of press. IRL, you could at least aim to win Indy & sweep the road courses. CC, um what?)

Valve Bounce

27th July 2007, 00:52

truefan72

27th July 2007, 08:02

What truefan says above may be true and give some perspective to the different series. However, I think it will be very difficult for Scott to get a drive in a decent car next year. Even Honda has already signed up their two drivers. :(

true, 2008 may be an off year for him, but

1. he should do his darndest to stick around the circus, even if it means a partial testing role.

2. He should part ways with Red Bull completely and seek a US based company for sponsorship. There are brands out there that would support speed on a global basis. Surely he should work the scene to get some of that sponsorship. I am not saying he needs a paid drive, but I am saying that a big sponsor can go a long way in leveraging ones position with teams. Even big name drivers bring along valuable sponsorship. Alonso & Santader, Schumi and the German Beer Co., etc. For Speed, the US firms are plenty and in some case, just need a reason to divert some pretax profits to avoid the IRS.

3. He should continue to take the high road in this situation but cleary correct any misstatements by Berger/Tost He should also work the phones to D. Materschnitz and either way, thank him for his support and explain his side of things.

4. And finally, he should be working overtime on securing a seat/tester role for 2008 with any team that would listen ( gasp! even Spyker) we saw what Super Aguri did in 18 months and Spyker are set to unveil a new car ( and probably a new Engine package) for 2008. In an odd way, he could/should have lobbyied for the spyker seat, left the STR, made the switch with immediate effect and drafted an optional 2008 contract with them which would have allowed him a release clause after 2008. I don't think STR would have oppoesd and immedeatly drafted Vettel into that open seat. Meanwhile, Speed would have had 7 races with no pressure and an opportunity to see how Spyker shakes out in 2008.

Valve Bounce

27th July 2007, 11:20

What about GP2? Is that a possibility?

seppefan

27th July 2007, 12:16

Very well said.

(I agree, Champ Car would be about the absolute worst place for an F1 driver to go. With sports cars, you stay around at least some of the same people. NASCAR is very different, & gets lots of press. IRL, you could at least aim to win Indy & sweep the road courses. CC, um what?)

ChampCar would be the best place for him to go, no question.

jens

27th July 2007, 17:36

Although I like Speed as a driver, then the possibility to see Vettel in F1 already this season is so exciting for me that I'm already lookind forward to see that happening. :D But to be more sceptical about that outlook, Sebastian hasn't even had a test with STR yet and I'm afraid he might have a hard start into his career, which might not impress team bosses of top teams...

But who else might replace Speed already this year? I guess Doornbos better wants to continue fighting for the title of CCWS rather than driver for a mediocre F1 team for a third of a season? Neel Jani's chances of getting the drive also don't seem too good. Any other possibilities?

Roamy

29th July 2007, 01:56

well SB aint coming because he is in the chase for the championship. So it will be a buy a ride if they replace scott. BMW could fund vettle to get experience already knowing they intend to **** Nick

ClarkFan

29th July 2007, 04:15

Trust me other teams around the paddock are looking at RBR and STR with bewilderment not in high esteem. So falling from grace there isn't a death nail to one's F1 career. Klien is now a test driver for Honda and has a few choices for 2008. Liuzzi and Speed will have some options for 2008 and 2009, if they can't find a race seat, I suggest they take a testing role.

As for BMW Glock is already getting up there in age while Speed and Liuzzi are still Young. McClaren might have a testing opportunity next year, so does pro drive, probably Honda, Super Aguri, Maybe Ferrari as well.

Falling from Grace from Red Bull means nothing nowerdays! For that fact it doesn't mean that much in any other team as well due to the politics and circumstances. But trust me RBR and STR are very close behind Spyker as having little credibility in the F1 heirachy. They have successfully proven that simply having the money doesn't mean you know how to spend it well. From mismanaging their young driver program, to not having a quality CFD engineer aolong with newey, etc, etc

The root of the problem is that Mateschitz sold half of the team to Berger and after that Berger discovered what the finances were. Berger was lobbying Speed to take a pay cut in the offseason in an already signed contract, which Speed rightfully refused. Likely line-up for 2008 is Bourdais plus someone who brings a lot of money. By 2009, STR could be back to their former Minardi status, with Bourdais regretting his F1 cameo.

The whole Red Bull presence as a team in F1 could also be on a short fuse. However much they spent on sponsorship before 2005, being the funding support for a team is another league of expenditure. For all the money they have spent/squandered, it has still not gotten them into the budget league of the top players. The team needs to fish or cut bait, and unless they have a major revival in 2008, "cut bait" may be the choice.

ClarkFan

murrayfan

29th July 2007, 19:31

i hope speed stays with toro rosso for the end of the season just to see if he's any good at all it's fair to say he has beaten liuzzi on a number of race's this season but when he get's it wrong he get's it very wrong i would like to see glock and vettel i think that would be a great team and one to help sort out the car problems that they have this season

nigelred5

31st July 2007, 00:07

At this point in his racing career, If I were Speed, I would much rather be a tester in F1 than a driver in the watered down Champ Car series. That would really be a tough journey back to F1 from there. Like it or not , Champ car has the reputation as a series full of content drivers with lower ambitions, satisfied to be in the series. It is also regarded as the hinterlands of top pro drive series. You will get decent and well paid drivers there, all of whom have resigned on the fact that this is the best they can do. This may be an unfair label but it's what the prevailing minds think. Look how long it has taken Bourdais to get into the good graces of the F1 folks.

As for the IRL, drivers there are a little more "competitive" but they don’t race enough configuration courses vs. ovals to get a proper evaluation of their skills. Next year with TC off, driver ability is going to play a slightly bigger factor. The only one out of that series with even a sniff would be Wheldon, but he is not willing to be a tester or join a lowly team (and rightfully so from his perspective)

So for Speed, Testing seems like the best option to stay on the radar if no seat avails itself for him in 2008. I do have a sneaky suspicion that we will see Speed racing in F1 next year, and sticking it to the STR guys. Even with the promise of a much improved car for 2008, ( which, of course Speed and Liuzzi will not get the benefit off, after struggling for 2 years in a uselless car) I still think STR will struggle. Speed shows some maxi that is required to succeed in F1. His comments are often poignant and honest. For those who think that's arrogance; get over it. there are at least a dozen drivers with far worse ego's than Speed.

I would tend to agree with most of that, but Weldon?? He's a w***er that can't turn right. Even the lil raven haired lass built like a 12 year old finishes better on road courses. He's no closer to an F1 drive than I am.

e2mtt

31st July 2007, 02:09

I would tend to agree with most of that, but Weldon?? He's a w***er that can't turn right. Even the lil raven haired lass built like a 12 year old finishes better on road courses. He's no closer to an F1 drive than I am.

The only person currently in IRL with any shot at F1 is Marco Andretti, because he is A.) young, B.) marketable with a great name, & C.) fast at road courses where it counts to F1.

At this point I would put his chances at about 30% that he will someday run F1. (If he really wants to, even better odds.) Nobody else has much of even a remote chance.

And back on topic, it looks like Speed gets to stick around STR a little longer, Vettel apparently isn't able to take his seat.

truefan72

31st July 2007, 03:57

Valve Bounce

31st July 2007, 05:56

The root of the problem is that Mateschitz sold half of the team to Berger and after that Berger discovered what the finances were. Berger was lobbying Speed to take a pay cut in the offseason in an already signed contract, which Speed rightfully refused. Likely line-up for 2008 is Bourdais plus someone who brings a lot of money. By 2009, STR could be back to their former Minardi status, with Bourdais regretting his F1 cameo.

The whole Red Bull presence as a team in F1 could also be on a short fuse. However much they spent on sponsorship before 2005, being the funding support for a team is another league of expenditure. For all the money they have spent/squandered, it has still not gotten them into the budget league of the top players. The team needs to fish or cut bait, and unless they have a major revival in 2008, "cut bait" may be the choice.

ClarkFan

..................why on earth would he want to join up with Torro Rosso under their dysfunctional management duo?

Surely to goodness he'd be better off remaining in the US in one of the comps there where he could be a winner. The following refers: http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19464.html