Air conditioning in WRC cars

[Mihai]

Rallying in the summer. A few years ago I heard that some teams fitted air conditioners inside their World Rally Cars. Does anyone know more about how these AC machines work ?

[J4MIE]

Think only a few cars had this, but it was only used on road sections as it reduces engine power. I'm sure Stohl used it in the 307?

[BDunnell]

The Group N Lancia Delta HF 4wd that Jimmy McRae drove on the first round of the 1987 British championship probably had air con too!

[feresc13]

Think only a few cars had this, but it was only used on road sections as it reduces engine power. I'm sure Stohl used it in the 307?

You're right, in Acropolis Rally Manfred was running with air conditioned in his Peugeot.

Maybe it may seem a silly thing, but if the temperature inside the car is not so high, this may increase the performance of the driver.

Also had air conditioned the Ford Focus WRC, but they only used it between stages, or that's what said last year Marcus Grönholm to Martin Holmes.

[Karbonyl]

307 WRC had air condition already when driving by Marcus.

[Corny]

even the 206WRC had it!

[jonas_mcrae]

I remember something about Martins focus having AC for Acropolis but Im not sure

[Daniel]

Rallying in the summer. A few years ago I heard that some teams fitted air conditioners inside their World Rally Cars. Does anyone know more about how these AC machines work ?
I remember when Burns needed air conditioning on the Acropolis. It was apparently driven from the propshaft :)

[FrankenSchwinn]

I remember when Burns needed air conditioning on the Acropolis. It was apparently driven from the propshaft :)

yeah, he was complaining about the heat in his 206 either at a test or maybe cyprus or something and asked about the AC which came reluctantly (tight space in the 206). but when he had it in, it was wired to blow on the windshield and created "fog spots". once they re routed the thing, no one complained anymore. as i recall marcus was also glad to have it. this was when almost everyone (especially on this forum) thought of burns as a whiner.

[Nenukknak]

Wasn't that also the occurence when Robert Reid fainted a couple of times during a stage because of the heat. That was also with either Cyprus or Acropolis.

[BDunnell]

Maybe it may seem a silly thing, but if the temperature inside the car is not so high, this may increase the performance of the driver.

I'm sure that's far from silly.

[feresc13]

I'm sure that's far from silly.

I mean,it reduces the car power, and increases the weight of the car, more systems to control...

That's why it may seem a silly thing. But take for granted that I don't think that's a silly thing.

[leopard]

AC burdens the engine, it can easily reach top temperature the limit of engine can produce an effective speed for racing, otherwise they have to observe any additional engine capacity for those using AC on the car which can result the same power as those without AC.

If the drivers felt undesired temperature inside the car, they have to seriously think about shifting the job to clerical office.

[Daniel]

AC burdens the engine, it can easily reach top temperature the limit of engine can produce an effective speed for racing, otherwise they have to observe any additional engine capacity for those using AC on the car which can result the same power as those without AC.

If the drivers felt undesired temperature inside the car, they have to seriously think about shifting the job to clerical office.

Not really. Humans are set to work in a particular environment. I come from Australia so I don't mind a bit of heat. But other people come from colder regions and are more sensitive to heat.

[LotusElise]

You would expect people from the Nordic countries, which many drivers are, to be less tolerant of extreme heat. I remember a discussion we had on here several seasons ago about heat and it seems that height-to-weight ratios can have an effect too.

If there is a danger of a driver fainting, that is a hazardous situation to everyone else.

[pentti]

In Nascar,where the heat is very high because oil tank is inside cars, all drivers use helmet cooling system. This does not take power out from engine. Surprised that nobody is using it yet in ralling.

[Daniel]

In Nascar,where the heat is very high because oil tank is inside cars, all drivers use helmet cooling system. This does not take power out from engine. Surprised that nobody is using it yet in ralling.
But that would mean a full face helmet wouldn't it? I heard there was a rally driver on these forums who was against full face helmets ;)

[kleisj]

But that would mean a full face helmet wouldn't it? I heard there was a rally driver on these forums who was against full face helmets ;)

Why?
They offer more head protection at the cost ofcourse of less breathing space. But I think is up to the driver and with what he feels more comfortable.

Anyway in this year's Acropolis when the long stage (50km) took place lots of drivers had suffered heat problems (some of them WRC crews). The temperature in the car during the stage can be very high (55-60Celsius or even more)

[DonJippo]

You would expect people from the Nordic countries, which many drivers are, to be less tolerant of extreme heat.

Ever been with a Finn in sauna ;)

[LotusElise]

Nope, but I've been with a Swede in a sauna!:wink:
Seriously though, you don't drive in saunas. Well, I didn't anyway.

[FrankenSchwinn]

Nope, but I've been with a Swede in a sauna!:wink:
Seriously though, you don't drive in saunas. Well, I didn't anyway.

swedes go to single sex saunas for different reasons than the finns.... or so a wise finn once told me!

[Erki]

Nope, but I've been with a Swede in a sauna!:wink:
Seriously though, you don't drive in saunas. Well, I didn't anyway.

Of course you don't drive, you ride. :hot:

[kleisj]

Of course you don't drive, you ride. :hot:

http://img116.exs.cx/img116/1231/z7shysterical.gif

[greencroft]

I am sure teams have experimented with cooling systems inside crash helmets and inside rally suits. My memory tells me it was Subaru but might be wrong on that. It was a system that pumped refrigerated liquid through a "water jacket".

[pentti]

But that would mean a full face helmet wouldn't it? I heard there was a rally driver on these forums who was against full face helmets ;) In most modern systems cool air goes through the top of helmet. So it works well in open face helmets.

[pentti]

Why?
They offer more head protection at the cost ofcourse of less breathing space. But I think is up to the driver and with what he feels more comfortable.

Anyway in this year's Acropolis when the long stage (50km) took place lots of drivers had suffered heat problems (some of them WRC crews). The temperature in the car during the stage can be very high (55-60Celsius or even more)The very most important reason to use open face helmets is that they are lighter. Many other benefits too.

[leopard]

Not really. Humans are set to work in a particular environment. I come from Australia so I don't mind a bit of heat. But other people come from colder regions and are more sensitive to heat.
I am sensitive to AC :D

[leopard]

I am sure teams have experimented with cooling systems inside crash helmets and inside rally suits. My memory tells me it was Subaru but might be wrong on that. It was a system that pumped refrigerated liquid through a "water jacket".

I think this is the solution, we know jacket for rider that equipped with a pouch of water in the back, there must be better technology for race driver to get some freshness inside the helmet and rally suit.

[Ferjancz]

As far as I remember , when the AC was mounted in Burns's car , it was used even in the SS's, because form Peugeot wanted to make some tests! But Burns was complaining about the AC because the results were bad! Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what comes to my mind for AC's in the WRC!

[Fleur]

We recorded temperatures of 62 - 65 degrees in the Malaysian International Rally last year. We didn't have air con, but our teammate did. He used his on touring to cool himself and the car interior down. Heat exhaustion is a huge potential problem in the hot countries, especially when you are wearing three layers!

[leopard]

As far as I remember , when the AC was mounted in Burns's car , it was used even in the SS's, because form Peugeot wanted to make some tests! But Burns was complaining about the AC because the results were bad! Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what comes to my mind for AC's in the WRC!
I would agree, it wasn't better than placing laptop in the baggage.

[LeonBrooke]

We recorded temperatures of 62 - 65 degrees in the Malaysian International Rally last year. We didn't have air con, but our teammate did. He used his on touring to cool himself and the car interior down. Heat exhaustion is a huge potential problem in the hot countries, especially when you are wearing three layers!

Did you die of heatstroke? ;)

Seriously, how did you handle it?

[leopard]

We recorded temperatures of 62 - 65 degrees in the Malaysian International Rally last year. We didn't have air con, but our teammate did. He used his on touring to cool himself and the car interior down. Heat exhaustion is a huge potential problem in the hot countries, especially when you are wearing three layers!
Do you drive rally?

Driving inside hot temperature of interior is not comfortable, but more and less AC installed may decrease engine performance and its temperature may go up hotter.
It may need a smaller compressor than the standard in order to minimize its disadvantage on the engine.

[Ferjancz]

I would agree, it wasn't better than placing laptop in the baggage.


I couldn't understand that !

[amberie]

I'm not a rally driver myself, but I'd say that when you're on stage, there's so much adrenaline flowing and your attention is on driving, you wouldn't even notice the heat. Plus, the average stage time is less than 15 minutes. You would turn on the A/C only in between stages for keeping cool and sane.
BMW is fitting their future models with an electrically powered A/C unit, as to not affect engine performance. Maybe that's an alternative?

[WRCfan]

Drivers are working hard enough to make a sweat, doesn't help when the temp is around 38 outside, inside pushing more!

You can pretend to be the hardest person on earth, lets face it, when it gets that hot no one is superhuman and can give 110% under such conditions. Adrenaline flowing or not....

[Mickey T]

I'm not a rally driver myself, but I'd say that when you're on stage, there's so much adrenaline flowing and your attention is on driving, you wouldn't even notice the heat. Plus, the average stage time is less than 15 minutes. You would turn on the A/C only in between stages for keeping cool and sane.
BMW is fitting their future models with an electrically powered A/C unit, as to not affect engine performance. Maybe that's an alternative?

well, adrenaline doesn't really flow that much, except when you make a mistake that looks like it could end ugly.

it's just concentration. you do notice the heat, but it's not like 'it's getting hot in here'. it starts as a prickly thing here and there - usually chest first -and gets worse.

anythign that detracts, or potentially detracts, from the concentration you need is a bad thing.

and modern motorsport ac units are electric and weigh not very much. added benefit of pressurizing the cabin to help keep dust out

[Daniel]

I'm not a rally driver myself, but I'd say that when you're on stage, there's so much adrenaline flowing and your attention is on driving, you wouldn't even notice the heat. Plus, the average stage time is less than 15 minutes. You would turn on the A/C only in between stages for keeping cool and sane.
BMW is fitting their future models with an electrically powered A/C unit, as to not affect engine performance. Maybe that's an alternative?

If the power has to come from somewhere there would be an effect on engine performance.

[leopard]

I couldn't understand that !
Oh a friend of mine was used to place laptop in the baggage, I am not sure it was a good idea.

[Daniel]

Oh a friend of mine was used to place laptop in the baggage, I am not sure it was a good idea.
We're not talking about laptops......

[leopard]

We're not talking about laptops......

Can it possibly give bad effect to engine?