Support The Scsa V8 Teams & Drivers [Archive]

cameronian

23rd July 2007, 11:38

"Dear Sir
I have been an SCSA supporter for some years and have recently been disappointed by the apparent lack of support for this series by your organisation.
I believe you have a duty to work in the best interests of all series which come under your umbrella.
This past Sunday I was appalled by the treatment of SCSA by your organisation.
The first race was Ok but the second race, held till last on the programme, was a disaster of your making.
The impending showers had been well forecast and to not adjust the programme to accomodate the only series which requires a dry track was negligent at least if not pre-meditated for some reason.
The second SCSA race could have been held after the first PUT race or before the second PUT race with minimum disruption to track configuration.
My only reason for taking up a season pass was to offer maximum support to SCSA/V8.
Although I support the PUT series , they and SCSA are the core reason for most fans to attend your Rockingham meeting so I can't believe it's not in your best interest to support and develop both series.
Yours sincerely"

The above is the text of an email which I've posted to the BRSCC

The White Lady

23rd July 2007, 12:49

Cameronian, may I suggest you post it as a letter too - as someone has said elsewhere, the old fashioned letter is still harder to ignore than an email.

Old Stock Nut

23rd July 2007, 13:04

I got back very early this morning from a week’s holiday with the family that I could not fit in any other time to avoid the race weekend. I am absolutely appalled at the way that the SCSA guys appear to have been treated yesterday. I will be writing to the BRSCC over the next couple of days to express my feelings, but I have already pulled around £1500 worth of corporate hospitality that we were planning with the BRSCC at one of the later meetings in order to give them a bit of support. I will be trying to see if we can get it arranged via INCARACE for the Ovalfest instead. If anyone has any direct contacts that they can let me have to arrange that, can they please PM me so that I can get it sorted.

I thought we had got away from the "Blazers" who have done their level best over previous years to screw the Rock in general and ASCAR in particular so that they can concentrate their obviously puny efforts on that wreck of an old RAF base they used a couple of weeks ago - and yes I did go to the GP, but even as a freebie, it was hardly worth it - boggy bogs, open stands, lousy inaudible commentary, no idea what was going on in the race and the usual bizarre traffic control around the circuit. All I can say is that F1 fans must be either unaware of what real motorsport entertainment is about, or they are closet masochists with ear defenders - never did understand why you would go to listen to big engines doing their business and then stuff cotton wool in your ears to block it out. At least you can feel the V8s, even if you cover your ears completely!. Not sure just how much longer Bernie will be willing to put up with them, but the sooner he gives them a decent kick where it hurts the better for all genuine motorport spectators will be.

107miler

23rd July 2007, 13:48

I too could not make it yesterday (something to do with floods, no power etc etc). Like OSN I was also appalled at what I have been reading and by the overwhealming condemnation of the organising of the day. I shall also write to BRSCC expressing my disatisfaction at what has happened but as I was not there I will, of course, follow Abo's instructions.

When I read Ear Wig's post on another thread then it's obvious something is seriously wrong.

Paul

Reynard

23rd July 2007, 14:54

I've just sent the following to Autosport (for their letters page) and will also send something similar to the BRSCC:

Dear Editor,

Likely I am not alone in expressing my dismay regarding the shambolic treatment of the Mac Tools V8 Trophy competitors at Rockingham at the weekend. The meeting organisers are fully aware that these cars cannot race in the wet for safety reasons and they were kept fully appraised regarding the incoming weather in the afternoon. So why were they then so inflexible as to make Sunday’s second V8 race take place just as heavy rain started to fall – at the end of a day that had been entirely dry up until that point?

On past occasions where the weather has intervened, the event timetable has been successfully rearranged to accommodate this and a complete day’s competition was had with no real inconvenience to anyone. There were many opportunities during the day’s events where the final V8 race could have taken place – and didn’t. An alternative slot was initially provided and then suddenly rescinded, resulting in a great deal of confusion, frustration and distress for everyone associated with the series.

When the race eventually did take place, it was a rain-curtailed shambles behind the safety car that ended in mayhem and left both drivers, crews, sponsors and fans feeling very short-changed and thoroughly fed up. A number of drivers took up to eighteen hours to battle their way to the circuit through the floods to take part in the V8 races and it is such a shame that their diligence in wanting to compete were not matched in kind by the meeting organisers.

A majority of the spectators go to Rockingham to see the V8 Trophy cars and the Pickup Trucks race on the oval – the only place this kind of racing can be experienced in the UK. It is an active – if underestimated – part of the national scene, and a valid part at that. The weekend’s proceedings has made the V8 Trophy series take quite a blow – one that it can ill afford. It is deeply frustrating, particularly since the whole situation could have been avoided in the first place.

Yours faithfully,

Witolda Maruszewska

I'd strongly suggest other forum members also pressurising Autosport as well as the BRSCC - you can send your letters to [email:1lmscr6y]autosport.letters@haynet.com[/email:1lmscr6y] and please include full name and address with that. Autosport deadline is around 5 pm today, so you've still got time to send if you get your skates on...

FRWW

23rd July 2007, 15:58

Why till only 5:00pm today ?

Forum Buddy

23rd July 2007, 15:59

I have sent my copy of email to [email:nqa8jplz]autosport.letters@haynet.com[/email:nqa8jplz]
and also sent by snail mail my letter to BRSCC.

I'll not be holding out much hope from either one though.

SCSA or V8 Trophy doesn't appear on their radar, in my opinion.

JovialJooles

23rd July 2007, 16:00

Why till only 5:00pm today ?

'cos it's then off to the printers!

The White Lady

23rd July 2007, 16:58

Dear Sirs,

I write to express my extreme disappointment at what appears to be a ludicrous decision on the part of the Race/Course Director at Rockingham Motor Speedway yesterday not to allow the Mac Tools V8 cars to run their second race of the day earlier in the afternoon before the arrival of the expected rain.

It was perfectly sensible, and indeed accepted even by the fans who missed the first race of the day, to move the first race to 10.00am in the morning to try to ensure two full races by these cars. Likewise people like myself who arrived at the circuit late Saturday afternoon hoping to see the planned 5.30pm MAC Tools V8 race only to find it had been run earlier. The decision to wait until 4.30pm on Sunday, when rain had been forecast for that time all day, to run the second race seems little short of foolish. Everyone expected these cars to race before the two Caterham races after the lunch break, including the drivers who we could see strapped in their cars and ready to race. When the Caterhams proceeded on track for their scheduled two races it was then expected that the V8 cars would run before the Pickup Truck second race as the Pickups can race in the rain. We, the ticket buying public, sat in the stands watching the clouds gather, almost not believing our eyes as the Pickup Trucks came out for their second race, only to feel the first spots of rain as the MAC Tools V8 cars commenced their installation laps!

I am sure that the Caterham racers appreciate that the majority of the ticket buying public were not there to see them, they are after all the support races and enjoyed as such, but the two main features of the day are quite clearly the Pickup Trucks and the Mac Tools V8Trophy cars. The BRSCC cannot be unaware of the difficulty the V8 cars have had in trying to continue as a series, running this year under an MSA ‘yellow card’, and need to develop their fan base in order to retain credibility for their current sponsors and to help develop the prospective sponsors needed to increase grid sizes. Fiascos like yesterday do nothing to further the cause of this unique series.

Teams and drivers are heavily committed to making the series a success, some of them making Herculean efforts to get to the circuit and avoid disappointing their fans, only to find the race organisers apparently working against them.

Talking to people at the circuit it seems that there were many spectators for whom yesterday was their first trip to a meeting like this, brought in by successful publicity, much of it generated by Sonny Howard. The lovely lady who sells the programmes told me that she spent much of her day directing newcomers to the circuit to toilets, the diner and the paddock tunnel. I understand that ticket sales were at least twice that of the June meeting. Those new faces left disappointed as they quite possibly missed the first outing of these fantastic cars and were then presented with the ‘spectacle’ of them having to drift quietly back to the pits on a wet track. Yes, the Pickup trucks were fantastic as usual, the support races were good, but people left on a wave of disappointment at not having seen the V8’s run in anger, the last race a damp squib instead of the promised excitement. They may well not return.

Reversing the order of the last two races would have meant them leaving excited, having seen the MAC ToolsV8 Cars race properly and an exciting final Pickup Truck race. They would, as I write, have been pre-booking their August tickets.

A successful marketing plan irreparably damaged by the decision to put the one set of cars unable to race during wet weather on track exactly when rain was forecast.

As a long time supporter of this series I would welcome an explanation as to why it was not possible to get the MAC Tools V8 cars and drivers on to the track for two races during the six or so hours of dry weather enjoyed by the circuit yesterday.

Also sent by mail to Mr B Cottrell and Mr I Brown.
doubt it will achieve much, but at least we've tried.

Dave17

23rd July 2007, 17:33

Why do we have two threads on the same subject?

Ah well, I will reiterate what I put in the other thread.

If a V8 race followed the first PuT race the second PuT race would have been rain effected so denying us that great slipstream extraviganzer and even if the rain had not come the race would have been shortened as there was only 10 mins left before curfew.

If you are looking for something to blame, try the bike show-it was a CAR meeting for heavens sake, why have them there at all?????

Teletubby

23rd July 2007, 19:14

I thought we had got away from the "Blazers" who have done their level best over previous years to screw the Rock in general and ASCAR in particular so that they can concentrate their obviously puny efforts on that wreck of an old RAF base they used a couple of weeks ago - and yes I did go to the GP, but even as a freebie, it was hardly worth it - boggy bogs, open stands, lousy inaudible commentary, no idea what was going on in the race and the usual bizarre traffic control around the circuit. All I can say is that F1 fans must be either unaware of what real motorsport entertainment is about, or they are closet masochists with ear defenders - never did understand why you would go to listen to big engines doing their business and then stuff cotton wool in your ears to block it out. At least you can feel the V8s, even if you cover your ears completely!. Not sure just how much longer Bernie will be willing to put up with them, but the sooner he gives them a decent kick where it hurts the better for all genuine motorport spectators will be.

But they did get a grid of more than 9 cars, and they run (somewhat chaotically this weekend!) in the wet!

JovialJooles

23rd July 2007, 19:51

But they did get a grid of more than 9 cars, and they run (somewhat chaotically this weekend!) in the wet!

Strewth, of course, it's been staring me in the face all along. How could I have missed it!

All we need to do is -

throw a billion dollar budget at SCSA[/*:m:1pidu2n2]
remove the concrete wall and replace it with gravel traps[/*:m:1pidu2n2]
move the spectators another 30ft away from the track[/*:m:1pidu2n2]
remove the grandstands[/*:m:1pidu2n2]
get rid of the Rockingham Building[/*:m:1pidu2n2]
plant some trees in the infield to obscure turns two and three[/*:m:1pidu2n2]
turn off the pa system[/*:m:1pidu2n2]
flood the toilets[/*:m:1pidu2n2]
add lots of hideously ugly aero bits to the cars[/*:m:1pidu2n2]
charge at least £70 for one ticket[/*:m:1pidu2n2]
keep people in the car parks for much much much longer than we do on a bad day.[/*:m:1pidu2n2]There, that should do it.

Thanks Teletubby for showing me the error of my ways.

turn 4 mad

23rd July 2007, 22:04

[quote="JovialJooles"]Strewth, of course, it's been staring me in the face all along. How could I have missed it!

All we need to do is -

throw a billion dollar budget at SCSA[/*:m:3mfxq2ik]
remove the concrete wall and replace it with gravel traps[/*:m:3mfxq2ik]
move the spectators another 30ft away from the track[/*:m:3mfxq2ik]
remove the grandstands[/*:m:3mfxq2ik]
get rid of the Rockingham Building[/*:m:3mfxq2ik]
plant some trees in the infield to obscure turns two and three[/*:m:3mfxq2ik]
turn off the pa system[/*:m:3mfxq2ik]
flood the toilets[/*:m:3mfxq2ik]
add lots of hideously ugly aero bits to the cars[/*:m:3mfxq2ik]
charge at least £70 for one ticket[/*:m:3mfxq2ik]
keep people in the car parks for much much much longer than we do on a bad day.[/*:m:3mfxq2ik]There, that should do it.

he he i like it!

Chigley

23rd July 2007, 23:02

But they did get a grid of more than 9 cars, and they run (somewhat chaotically this weekend!) in the wet!

Martin your bias is a bit transparent and obvious. We know you do not approve of Rockingham and the Oval but cheap shots are beneath you. It does not become a BARC Council member.

racing59

23rd July 2007, 23:46

Ian,

Top banana!

[SCATHING ATTACK]
These are the people who have created the motorsport that we have in the UK today.

Competitor led, not spectator led. Therefore the spectators do not come.

We try to buck that trend with people friendly racing. Racing that people want to see. Racing where FAMILIES want to come, where they are welcome, and children are not seen as horrid little things that have no place in a motor racing circuit.

And Tellytubby, as much as I love Thruxton as a driver, I won't come down there again as on my last visit I was treated like a leper because I deemed to bring my family with me. My wife is still not happy, and it was four years ago!

As the operator of that circuit, you could do so much to promote the sport to "the people", yet you do sod all. Take a leaf out of Howard Strawford's book.
And next time you see Denny Carter, my mate Mal Grimes from Denver (Downham Market) says hello.

[/SCATHING ATTACK]

Rob.

EarWig

24th July 2007, 00:25

Calm down Rob
:)

We tried to cater for all the children who visited the 31 car at the weekend by giving them a free postcard of the 31 car signed by Duncan (courtesy of MAD Photography) and a free Team Networking 31 car badge. (courtesy of Filray Web Design Ltd)
I know Duncan signed every programme the kids bought to him and we also gave away a number of signed programmes to those that did not have one.

If we missed any children our apologies

Ray

racing59

24th July 2007, 00:34

That's my point Ray.

The children are openly welcome here, where elsewhere, and as I found, Thruxton, are best left locked away at home with the wife, as she's not welcome either. Dash it man! that's the mem-sahib's place, fetching another Pimms or G&T.

Rockingham is different, and that's why it's so special and worth all of the support that we give it. If my daughter didn't get so bored with the lack of things for a 6 year-old to do, both of my kids would be there.

Dominic - if you're reading - get the Creche open again, and a bouncy castle etc... back in the paddock down here.... and a decent fun fair behind the Rockingham building. and... and.... and... I know, no money available for it.

racing59

24th July 2007, 00:35

Darnit. It's 0-dark-hundred again. I'm off!

JovialJooles

24th July 2007, 10:42

Dominic - if you're reading - get the Creche open again, and a bouncy castle etc... back in the paddock down here.... and a decent fun fair behind the Rockingham building. and... and.... and... I know, no money available for it.

I think it is all down to money. The creche probably is a bit unrealistic at present

But...

If you want the children to come you have to accept that they are not going to watch the racing all the time! When Rockingham had the fair and bouncy castles etc, I brought my 1 year old who absolutely loved the racing and the fair and bouncy castle. We then took his friend to the next meeting and we all had a great time. this continued to the end of the season.

However, my son has not been since 2005 as there is not enough to keep him entertained. It is a real shame. I used to promote Rockingham heavily as a really family friendly place and people that had never considered going to a racing circuit visited and were impressed.

What a huge step backwards we have taken. There is nothing for a family now. How on earth are we to build the series with sod all for children to do?

The plan was to bring my family and friends up in August, but I am having real reservations, as I don't think there is enough to keep them entertained. Now if I am thinking this, (and I have been to Rockingham since it opened - founder member, I've only missed 4 meetings - and I'm now a marshal and still a die hard supporter of the facility and the racing) then what on earth do the general public think these days?

Well, just look at the grandstands...

For Pete's sake, how much do a few bouncy castle's cost? It's not as if the children don't have to pay to go on them... You don't need a full fun fair either. Just a couple of small rides for the smaller children. I've seen them at Church Fetes, but apparently, they are too big for Rockingham.

107miler

24th July 2007, 11:30

I can't help but agree with JovialJooles.

Going to Rockingham used to be an event. Aside from the spectacle of the racing there was the sheer buzz of the stalls, the funfair, the concert. But that buzz seems to have disappeared along with those aspects, and hence the diminishing crowds.

Like a lot of people I have managed over the years to encourage others to come along to the racing. We all agree that when it is done right there is no better racing in this country. But it seems to me it does require the infrastructure as well otherwise it will not lure the families etc for whom a day out with plenty of other things to do is important.

Rockingham is a fabulous facility and to see it so sparsely populated on a race day is such a shame to see. I still support the racing because that is what I like and that is what I believe in, like others. The inescapable fact to me though is that it needs the atmosphere surrounding it.

I too remember the posts on the forum moaning about kids, the pop concert noise and other things that were an aside to the racing. I wonder if those self same moaners would now reconsider their views. Even though I am a racing fan I still could not help but raise a smile, and then joined in, the stamping of feet in the grandstands to the music preceding the events. At times the stands really did rock.

As JovialJooles states "how much do bouncy castles" and a fun fair cost.

This all sounds so negative and I apologise for that but I wonder if this weekend has brought everything to a head. Oval racing really should succeed and deserves to succeed if only for the efforts of the committed.

Paul

JovialJooles

24th July 2007, 11:37

I doubt the moaners are still going. I think they disappeared end of 2005...

jeffmr2

24th July 2007, 20:00

I doubt the moaners are still going. I think they disappeared end of 2005...

I was one of the moaners at kids etc being at rockingham.I was there a few times last year havent made it there this year as yet due to:

meeting 1: clash with a stag party
meeting 2: poorly advertised with regards numbers of drivers in the ascars (i still love this name lol!!)
meeting 3: too risky with the weather to travel so far (i'm devastated to hear how bad the day went,all you drivers,marshals and fans who were there deserve so much better)
meeting 4 :s aving my money as im off to richmond for the chevy 400 :)
ovalfest : going to be there

I still regard myself as a big fan and try to keep up with what goes on there but i just prefer the nascar way,if kids go they pay full price and no air horns allowed.

I remember one reason being banded around for not running longer races was due to kids and pop fans getting bored by long races!!.I can also remember the time when the pre race build went on for so long with all the stamping of the feet and the rock girls dancing on track that when the ascars went out they done two or three warm up laps and it started to rain,thus messing up the whole race programme.It just seemed to me that the focus was on the wrong element of the people,the motor racing fans being treated as second best.

My own view is if we can get 100 lap ascar races and more drivers the race fans will return.

Sorry this is going over old stories but i didnt start this,just giving a grumpy stock car fans perspective.

racing59

24th July 2007, 20:23

I "signed up" for 50 lappers (75miles) with a pitstop and garages.
I got 35 lappers, no pitstop, and a share in a rather nice marquee.

However, I was still glad to be here.

But I agree, the stockcars are much better to watch on the longer races, 100 lappers - hmmm that would require refuelling (1litre a lap-ish - tank = 80L) More fun and games in the pitlane.

The ultimate would be a 500 miler!!! But let's walk again before we start to run.

Abo

24th July 2007, 20:25

The ultimate would be a 500 miler!!! But let's walk

Walk 500 miles? Would you walk 500 more?

Abo

24th July 2007, 20:25

[OT]

Grr I've got several of those little harvest fly things *inside* my monitor crawling around. I't incredibly distracting...

racing59

24th July 2007, 20:25

Before you start proclaiming...

JovialJooles

24th July 2007, 21:10

der der de de...

darknessrock

24th July 2007, 21:20

de dum dum de de dum de de dum dum dum de de de dum dum......

darknessrock

24th July 2007, 21:32

On a serious :) note, My youngest only gets bored during the support races, but only since the T1 chicane went. When the floppys were getting demolished at the start of each race, and the rest of the time saw lots of off road action. Every race was exiting for him back then. i know it can't easily be changed, but maybe it's an idea. However, now when the support races are on, he just asks to have a walk over to the paddock, and this weekend the drivers seemed even more friendly than usual! He thinks a 5 minute chat with the likes of Rob, Tony, gav and stanty is far better than a bouncy castle,(I've just asked him), and he's only 10. Even in the old days, they were never interested in the funfair, although they did enjoy seeing the likes of busted and the darkness, (hence my username :) ).
As long as the drivers stay family friendly, we'll continue to come, as will the many people i've introduced to this unique style of racing. (although i won't be there in august... previous engagement at Michigan International Speedway), so if anyone wants to borrow my season pass, Pm me.. but I'll need it back for the F3 meeting....

LessThanSte

24th July 2007, 22:11

The ultimate would be a 500 miler!!! But let's walk again before we start to run.

Youve got me interested now :P

Theres no REAL reason, i can see, why a 500miler wouldnt work. You'd need a decent feild of at least 20 cars i suppose, so that probably limits it to the pickups.

But what better way to get a load of big motorsport fans along. Pre race, at 10am, the v8's head out for a 20 minute shindig, before the main event, kicking off at 11:30. At 40 seconds a lap, and a lap being 1.5 ish miles, your looking at 333 laps (or 400 miles would be 267), taking about 3 hours of green flag racing, so about a 4 hour race in total.

There strike me as some issues, mainly the fact they'd have to make plenty of pitstops. Tire wear, i understand, isnt really an issue, so they could leave tires on for maybe 2 or 3 stints at a time. I dont know how they are fueled, is it the same as NASCAR (i.e. through a hose at the back) or does it need bits taking off to get to the fuel tank?

I seem to remember that one of the reasons for no truck pitstops was due to lack of mechanics etc, though im sure that members of this forum, or maybe even the crowd at the event, wouldnt mind paying a tenna to charity to help out on the team for the weekend (and therefore filling all the spots for tire changers etc!).

So you'd have a great race (the trucks are ace and the longer they stay green the better they get!), make a bundle of cash for charity and get a load of publicity, maybe, for rockingham.

Only other issue would i suppose be getting a half decent crowd though im sure billing it as the Rockingham 400 or whatever and really doing a big, effective build up with some other special things on the day could get a decent crowd in and, in all honesty, i dont think there would be any real racing fan that, having seen a 4 hour truck race, would not want to come back to see it time and time again!

One can dream. But maybe next year?

Abo

24th July 2007, 22:36

I dont know how they are fueled, is it the same as NASCAR (i.e. through a hose at the back) or does it need bits taking off to get to the fuel tank?

You have to take part of the rear deck off, remove the cap, stick in a funnel and fill from a jerry can.

Not in the hot pit lane lol!

I suppose one could swap the funnel for an aero rig, VW fun Cup style, and access via a hole cut in the rear deck. It's a nice little rig but you're looking at a grand and a half for the fuel tank and bits, and 500 each for a 22 litre aero dump can.

Reynard

24th July 2007, 22:45

It's a nice little rig but you're looking at a grand and a half for the fuel tank and bits, and 500 each for a 22 litre aero dump can.

And you're going to need some poor soul who can lift the darned thing without rupturing themselves as well! :laugh:

LessThanSte

24th July 2007, 23:01

:(

And i was looking forward to the Rockingham 400 already :(

racing59

24th July 2007, 23:51

Many of the cars already have dry-break refuelling valves, all ready to go (mine does) and I have the big dump can to go with it (two man, or one Proctor lift), so that's easy. The issue, as Chigley has mentioned is a total lack in the number of "Men (and laydeees) in Odinge" to man the safety kit that will be required for hot-lane refuelling.

Add to that the cost of running a 400 or 500 mile race. That's a number of sets of tyres in one race, I would estimate four refuelling stops.

Yes, it would be a spectacle. I'd LOVE to do it. BUT, who's gonna pay!

a 400 mile race, that's 268laps = 300 litres of fuel to be sure, that's just possible on one set of Avons, providing you rotate them at half distance (fronts to the rear and vice versa), and more importantly, at an average lap time of 40 seconds (to allow for a caution or two) comes out at just shy of 180 minutes. At £100/minute track hire fee = £18000 for the race alone, add to that practice/qualifying, you are talking 22-24K for running that race.
So you need 40 cars - and that would be the bizz.

So, what shall we sell to fund it.

Who will start the bidding for .... Tower Bridge, available to any American oil baron, or similar, can be easily dismantled and shipped via UPS

LessThanSte

25th July 2007, 00:08

We could sell the scoring pylon back, since it seems to have gone down the toilet again!

Chigley

25th July 2007, 00:17

We could sell the scoring pylon back, since it seems to have gone down the toilet again!

Oiiii, leave that alone we have plans for that, and I'm not telling what !!!! :D

racing59

25th July 2007, 01:19

KY?

JovialJooles

25th July 2007, 12:05

KY?

:disturb: :rotflmao:

jeffmr2

25th July 2007, 22:54

After what must have been a very trying weekend for you all i'm just wondering is it worth considering cancelling the augist meeting,re-grouping and focusing all efforts on the ovalfast weekend? Just think if sponsers would agree to this then the budget for just one more round would be that much greater to put on a mega show.Maybe hire and run more cars,get some old poular drivers like Tony King,Mark Proctor,Anthony Swan in as guest drivers,get a production crew there to record the action and put together some sort of promotional dvd together to sell the racing to new sponsers for next year.Hope you get my drift although it may be that i'm just talking rubbish like normal !!

racing59

26th July 2007, 22:13

You won't get Proccy out again. They only made one seat big enough for him, and it's in my car!!! Now Tony King, there's a good idea. And Anthony.

However, canning the August meeting, IMHO is not an option. That would be like giving up. In the world of motorsport - people forget very very quickly, and that would be the end of it.

Rob.

turn 4 mad

26th July 2007, 22:44

JDPower

27th July 2007, 00:08

Now Tony King, there's a good idea. And Anthony.
Tony left under a cloud so not sure whether he'd want to come back. Having said that AFAIK the reasons are no longer there and he's exactly the kind of person that would fit perfectly within the existing group of hard working drivers and teams currently in the series, he'd be a real asset to have back :up:

manicdoggie

28th July 2007, 12:51

I couldn't agree more. We travelled up to see the V8's and it was obvious it was going to rain late on Sunday. The race should have been moved as everything else can race in the wet, I think. What happened after the race was worse. The last race was chequered flagged but it was then said this was a mistake and it should have been a red flag. The points have been taken away and the race teated as null and void. I understand no-one got approval for an extra champioship round that week-end, even though the website seems to advertise the exta race. Colin White struggled through floods for 15 hours to get to the track - what a way to treat them! Fans let them know we want V8's loud and proud.

Teletubby

30th July 2007, 10:48

Martin your bias is a bit transparent and obvious. We know you do not approve of Rockingham and the Oval but cheap shots are beneath you. It does not become a BARC Council member.

I had no intention of having a cheap shot, nor am I particularly biased, not being an ardent F1 fan. But picking on F1 as poor entertainment when most threads here are complaining about a chaotic event is a bit naive, sure F1 hasn't been the sporting spectacle that it should be for a few years but this year has been better.

I would dearly love SCSA to have decent grids but they don't have yet and to try to sell the series as anything other than poorly supported is delusional at best. I think that a grid of 20 cars would be good, 40 would be excellent but at the moment it doesn't float my boat and I could go to much closer circuits to watch single figure grids tooling around (and even in the wet!)

I would also ask that you attack the post and not the poster! My comments here are nothing to do with BARC and don't reflect any opinion of the club or it's members. I didn't think that I needed to add a disclaimer to my posts and I'm disappointed with your response.

Old Stock Nut

30th July 2007, 14:33

I would also ask that you attack the post and not the poster!

Ok then lets look at comparisons - Take F1 as the example of an over-hyped event then. Do the maths. If all 11 teams for this year manage to get both cars out and they manage to keep going for the average of about 60 laps, that is a maximum of 22 cars for 60 laps. Watching at Club Corner, as I did, you get to see about a third of the Silverstone circuit, so you get to see all 22 cars for about 20 laps worth. or 11 cars for 40 laps. Bearing in mind that you probably see at least two overtakings if you are lucky and the rest of the time the cars are tootling around more or less on their own how is that good value for anything. And as to the poor weather option, the stand I was in at Club didn't have a top, so I would have been hiding under a brolly if it had been raining and watching the mist around the cars over every other brolly and that woud have been really great - not (shades of Spa last year!). Compare that with two 35 lappers of the PuTs with at least 10 overtakings a lap in full view, plus a couple of small field V8s, that is a darned sight better sight. I suggest that the crowds are not flocking to Rockingham is more to do with the hype of the two relative events, the massive TV revenue that Bernie has managed to get for his circus, no advertising or TV for the Rockingham events and the lack of support from the controllers of motorsport in this country for anything that looks a bit like a spectator sport. OK, so 43 cars are better and the 350K or so at Indianapolis yesterday would probably make the point better than I could, but F1 is anything but entertainment in comparison to most other motorsport - it is just a lot better hyped than the rest, and there will be a heck of a lot of jobs at at stake when the money dries up.
.....And I bet there would be a good few thousand fans flocking to Rockingham once a year to see a full superb display by the Red Arrows - NIMBYs allowing of course!!

racing59

30th July 2007, 21:28

Red Arrows? At Rockingham? Oh Yes!!

NASCAR - the biggest merchandising machine in the world. It dwarfs F1, when you consider the amount of coverage that 38 rounds a year gets, how many people physically go to see it, and watch it on TV. That's why it's the second biggest spectator sport in North America behind Major League Baseball, ahead of College Football (at the last count).

F1 (I've worked in it) is the biggest technology development ground for anything automotive, yet it provides (generally) some of the most spectacularly boring racing, only ever so slightly brightened by refuelling stops for the purpose of overtaking. Bring back full tanks, no refuelling, and drivers using their own brains, not Brawn. Ooops, he's having a year off! Sorry.

BTCC. Hmmmm for similar money to entertainment value = Rolls Royce Demolition Derby. Very little to differentiate between the driving standards, or the money wasted on panel damage. Though the public love paying to watch crashes!

It goes to show, though, that with marketing, and big media backing, you can polish a ..... (look at the premier league for starters!)

Rob.

Teletubby

30th July 2007, 21:40

Ok then lets look at comparisons - Take F1 as the example of an over-hyped event then. Do the maths. If all 11 teams for this year manage to get both cars out and they manage to keep going for the average of about 60 laps, that is a maximum of 22 cars for 60 laps. Watching at Club Corner, as I did, you get to see about a third of the Silverstone circuit, so you get to see all 22 cars for about 20 laps worth. or 11 cars for 40 laps. Bearing in mind that you probably see at least two overtakings if you are lucky and the rest of the time the cars are tootling around more or less on their own how is that good value for anything. And as to the poor weather option, the stand I was in at Club didn't have a top, so I would have been hiding under a brolly if it had been raining and watching the mist around the cars over every other brolly and that woud have been really great - not (shades of Spa last year!). Compare that with two 35 lappers of the PuTs with at least 10 overtakings a lap in full view, plus a couple of small field V8s, that is a darned sight better sight. I suggest that the crowds are not flocking to Rockingham is more to do with the hype of the two relative events, the massive TV revenue that Bernie has managed to get for his circus, no advertising or TV for the Rockingham events and the lack of support from the controllers of motorsport in this country for anything that looks a bit like a spectator sport. OK, so 43 cars are better and the 350K or so at Indianapolis yesterday would probably make the point better than I could, but F1 is anything but entertainment in comparison to most other motorsport - it is just a lot better hyped than the rest, and there will be a heck of a lot of jobs at at stake when the money dries up.
.....And I bet there would be a good few thousand fans flocking to Rockingham once a year to see a full superb display by the Red Arrows - NIMBYs allowing of course!!

A very well reasoned post if I may say so.

You seem to think that I'm an apologist for F1 but that's not the case at all but your example isn't the best.

I too attended the GP this year as an official for the first time for many years and actually enjoyed myself (although that may be as much to do with the company as the racing).

If my memory serves me correctly, only the Rockingham building has covered grandstand seats? So if, as at the GP, all of the covered seats were sold, people would be sat in the rain as per your example except they would not be watching the spray but absolutely nothing!

In terms of overtaking, you have me there, people who I know really enjoy F1 but they are into the whole technology and strategy thing which does nothing for me, I prefer my overtaking to happen on the track!

As I said, I have no problem at all with SCSA (after all, I attended the first ever test of the cars at Rockingham on a Rescue unit and have been to a number of meetings) and would like it to be successful but there aren't enough cars at the moment and, if reports are to be believed, summers are going to get wetter which means that they really do need to do something about wet weather running or I fear that they will end up with a backlog of races which won't do anybody any favours.

I think that paranoia about 'the Blazers' does you no favours at all. I'm not sure who you think has caused the current situation but I'm not aware that anybody has deliberately caused any problems. BARC would not have started and run the series for years (and PuT is still a BARC Championship) with the expectation of it being unsuccessful and I'm sure that the BRSCC are trying their best to make it a success, Dave Pierre is a good guy who will be keen for it to move forwards. To put these things into perspective, neither BARC or the BRSCC run the British Grand Prix so the conspiracy theory is sadly lacking a logical conclusion. ;)

Forum Buddy

30th July 2007, 22:36

The issue at the last meeting was the lack of movement of racing for the SCSA before any rain, for everybody could see the black clouds were moving in before the PUT's went out to race for the 2nd time.

That is the only issue we all had.

We will have to wait and see if any news comes out of the system, and if any lessons have been learnt about SCSA and when the known forecast is of rain coming.

Let's wait and see if BRSCC come up with the goods, and if we have SCSA moved around if pending rain.

Support for SCSA and BRSCC is still needed to keep this series, be it club racing, just as long as these guys want to drive and we get to heard those V8's around Rockingham.

PUT's too of course, we need those just as much, to be the headliners, but V8 power is awesome.

Forget F1, it does come close to V8 Muscle Power.

Tiesse

30th July 2007, 23:15

As I said, I have no problem at all with SCSA (after all, I attended the first ever test of the cars at Rockingham on a Rescue unit and have been to a number of meetings) and would like it to be successful but there aren't enough cars at the moment

Forgive me Teletubby, but I don't know of you or your background. Would I be correct in saying that (taken from my interpretation of your posts) you don't come to see the SCSA races with any regularity?

On the whole, this is a chicken & egg situation. If the series gets next to no publicity, the potential new spectators won't come. If the spectators don't come, this lessens the sponsorship potential of the teams (money needed to be competitive). The less competitive the teams are, the less publicity the series gets & so on......

As has been said, the problems on Sunday were with what seemed an astounding decision by the meeting's organisers not to send the V8s out to race earlier in order to beat the weather that had held off all day & was obvious to most through forecasts or looking to the sky was going to close in when the race was scheduled to start.

I too am an F1 fan & don't think that we are comparing like for like in any way shape or form. Keeping things real for a moment, the V8 series in this country is never going to compete for media attention with F1 for as long as I've got a hole in my a**e!

I have said many times before that we all have to do our bit if the series is going to continue, let alone succeed. It's all very well us hardcore supporters (just read that bit & realized it may be taken out of context in a fan of porn way!) returning each month. But what the series needs is to entice the fans back who used to come to Rockingham & also get newcomers interested by promoting the series more. If that means playing second fiddle to PuT racing at the moment, then so be it!