why don't other teams copy?

[WelshLegend]

Why don't teams copy aerodynamic devices from other teams? Imagine how much more faster the Spyker could be if it copied the front nose of the Mclaren and the little aerodynamic pieces from the Ferrari?
Surely teams cannot copyright all of the aerodynamic pieces from their cars.


WelshLegend

[CarlMetro]

Copying one particular component on a car may work but it's generally a combination of all of the parts; engine, gearbox, chassis, aerodynamics etc which make a good car good.

The were very strong rumours a couple of years ago (2002 I think) that the new Toyota car bore striking resemblance to the Ferrari of the same year, yet the results of the two cars were at oposite ends of the performance charts.

[Storm]

You think teams don't copy each other ?

The devil horns were only on the McLaren 2 years ago...now they are on the BMW
Similarly the gills on the Renault and Ferrari sidepods, various winglets, the additional wing on the air intake.....most of these came on one car and are now on most cars.

[Valve Bounce]

Why don't teams copy aerodynamic devices from other teams? Imagine how much more faster the Spyker could be if it copied the front nose of the Mclaren and the little aerodynamic pieces from the Ferrari?
Surely teams cannot copyright all of the aerodynamic pieces from their cars.


WelshLegend

It would be very easy to alter minor details to avoid any copyrights if such exist. However, my understanding is that these wings + winglets are constantly being alterred to suit the chassis and one cars front wings may not suit another car's chassis. But you are right - with today's photography and computer reproduction techniques, it would not be that difficult to get pretty accurate details of these components.

[leopard]

Perhaps, wee need another Nigel Stepney to answer this question. :(

[tinchote]

It think it all comes down to the fact that the aerodynamic package has to work (not to mention "compatibility" with the suspension system).

I don't doubt that most teams "grab ideas" from each other all the time. But they still need a lot of work in the wind tunnel to make it possible. And even then, it is complicated to move from the wind tunnel to the real car. So simply copying parts of other cars is never gonna work.

[call_me_andrew]

What works for one team doesn't always work for another team, mass dampers for example.

[wmcot]

with today's photography and computer reproduction techniques, it would not be that difficult to get pretty accurate details of these components.

But everyone would be afraid to take them to a printer/copy store thanks to present circumstances!! ;)

[Mark]

Teams can and do copy things, but as others have said, simply putting the front wing on a McLaren onto the front of a Sypker isn't going to work, airflow over one part affects the other parts and do doing something like that could actuall result in reduced aero performace not better.

This is why they spend so much time and money on wind tunnel testing.

[leopard]

No one wants copy the big nose of last williams BMW?

Maybe one thing benefited from high airflow coming into the engine will keep it cool.

[Dzeidzei]

with today's photography and computer reproduction techniques, it would not be that difficult to get pretty accurate details of these components.

Not to mention actual blueprints. Remember, we know now for a fact that McL model 2008 will look a lot like this year´s Ferrari.

:)

[WelshLegend]

Not to mention actual blueprints. Remember, we know now for a fact that McL model 2008 will look a lot like this year´s Ferrari.

:)



how do we know that next years McMerc will look like this years Ferrari? :confused: :confused:


WelshLegend

[wedge]

High front nose concept - late 1980s Tyrrell

Aerofoil wishbone suspension - mid-1990s Tyrrell

Sidepod winglets - mid-1990s Tyrrell - the FIA banned the metre high ones for cosmetic reasons

Aero-efficient brake ducts - late 1990s McLaren

Double decker/upper element front wings - Renault 2003/04/05 (can't remember exact year)

[Dzeidzei]

how do we know that next years McMerc will look like this years Ferrari? :confused: :confused:


WelshLegend

Well, Ron does have the data, doesnt he?

And as the :) tried to imply, it was a joke. Lighten up, WL.

[WelshLegend]

Well, Ron does have the data, doesnt he?

And as the :) tried to imply, it was a joke. Lighten up, WL.


Sorry mate it totally forgot about the whole Mclaren and Ferrari saga. Now i get the joke. LOL.

On a serious note though, what would say e.g. Spyker have to lose if they did actually try the Mclaren front wing? Its not like they would lose any points over it as they do not have any. ;)

WelshLegend

[luvracin]

On a serious note though, what would say e.g. Spyker have to lose if they did actually try the Mclaren front wing? Its not like they would lose any points over it as they do not have any. ;)

WelshLegend

It may make them go backwards....

Spyker probably has several items they are working on and each one is being validated as an improvement in the wind tunnel and incorporated step by step.

To just go and blindly bolt on a Mclaren front wing may very well wipe out all performance improvements they have made to date. But who knows, maybe they are testing a Mclaren "type" front wing, but need to tweak it to ensure it does have a positive effect before they put it on a car.

[Easy Drifter]

As the cars are designed as a package just taking an item from another make would not work although a modified component changed to suit your car might. Completly new pieces do take a while to produce with jigs made up and the fabrication in carbon fibre. It is not like the old days where the panel beater could turn something out in day or two. Derek Bennett at Chevron would make a piece and then they would draw it and make a jig but that was the 70's!
Copying of ideas takes place but normally not until the next years car.

[jso1985]

copying? I'm sure they do

knowing how to use it? that's what most teams couldn't do properly

[call_me_andrew]

No one wants copy the big nose of last williams BMW?

I think that was actually a coppy of an older ugly nose.

[leopard]

Not to mention actual blueprints. Remember, we know now for a fact that McL model 2008 will look a lot like this year´s Ferrari.

:)
I think 2008 Ferrari will remain the only red car on the gridz

[Dzeidzei]

I think 2008 Ferrari will remain the only red car on the gridz

Hey, maybe the 1st Prodrive will be the Ferrari copy? Or perhaps the McL pre season livery will be red instead of their typical orange.

[leopard]

Hey, maybe the 1st Prodrive will be the Ferrari copy? Or perhaps the McL pre season livery will be red instead of their typical orange.
Didn't you know todays Ferrari isn't red, it's dark redz :p : :)

[jas123f1]

Why don't teams copy aerodynamic devices from other teams? Imagine how much more faster the Spyker could be if it copied the front nose of the Mclaren and the little aerodynamic pieces from the Ferrari?
Surely teams cannot copyright all of the aerodynamic pieces from their cars.


WelshLegend

Yes they really do copy, as much as they can and as far as they can do it inside law, when looking how all cars are designed it’s easy to see how similar they are.

The “problem” is however - that to make a fast and balanced car it’s always a question of complete design and it doesn’t help that much to copy different parts of other cars designs it’s not necessarily any solution for others. That’s also the reason why Ferrari are looking very seriously to the fact that complete Ferrari construction is ”on the wrong track” and not only a part of it. It is very seriously.. and can destroy many years hard work for them.. :)

[Malbec]

Why don't teams copy aerodynamic devices from other teams? Imagine how much more faster the Spyker could be if it copied the front nose of the Mclaren and the little aerodynamic pieces from the Ferrari?
Surely teams cannot copyright all of the aerodynamic pieces from their cars.


WelshLegend


People DO copy.

As the cars are left on the grid pre-race, you'll see various engineers wandering around other cars taking pics to be looked at carefully later.

Then you have engineers swapping teams who may well not bring any hard copy plans with them but might say "back at McLaren we used to do this". This seasons RBR looks much closer to a McLaren than any previous RBR did, and I'm sure thats got a little to do with Newey penning the design.

Its just rare to have people have hard copies of other teams plans in their possession. Thats generally seen as overstepping the mark.....