Another question answered?

[Robinho]

after a fantastic pole winning lap from Lewis Hamilton today i would sugest that he has answered another question that people have been posing this season, that of "yeah, but how will he perform under extreme pressure, or when things aren't going his way"

i don't think the pressure on the young lad's shoulders could have been much greater, first home GP, leading the championship and everyone wnats a piece of him, fans, press, rappers. he arrives at the circuit in te midst of an industrial espionage scandal and appreantly appears to not only not have the fastest car, but also to be lagging behind his teammate in most of the sessions this weekend.

...until that final lap of qually 3, currently "only" 4th on the grid and seemingly no hope of making the front row he pulls one out of the bag to send the highly expectant crowd wild and snatch the polefor the (so far) biggest race of his life.

can he handle the pressure? Hell Yeah!

yes, he might be running light, yes Kimi made an error, but crucialy, when there was no further opportunity he took his chance, another step up the ladder for Lewis, and i for one, am loving every minute of it.

:)

[Big Ben]

after a fantastic pole winning lap from Lewis Hamilton today i would sugest that he has answered another question that people have been posing this season, that of "yeah, but how will he perform under extreme pressure, or when things aren't going his way"

i don't think the pressure on the young lad's shoulders could have been much greater, first home GP, leading the championship and everyone wnats a piece of him, fans, press, rappers. he arrives at the circuit in te midst of an industrial espionage scandal and appreantly appears to not only not have the fastest car, but also to be lagging behind his teammate in most of the sessions this weekend.

...until that final lap of qually 3, currently "only" 4th on the grid and seemingly no hope of making the front row he pulls one out of the bag to send the highly expectant crowd wild and snatch the polefor the (so far) biggest race of his life.

can he handle the pressure? Hell Yeah!

yes, he might be running light, yes Kimi made an error, but crucialy, when there was no further opportunity he took his chance, another step up the ladder for Lewis, and i for one, am loving every minute of it.

:)

I think the idea was... lets see him when his car breaks for no reason in quals and has to come from the back

I don´t know how stressful is for a driver the fact that there are people in the stands watching them.

I can´t see what´s the big deal? And lets wait and see how much fuel he has, how is he going to handle KR this time, lets wait for the race to end!

Not that I want something to happen to him... I personally want a McLaren 1-2 again

[rohanweb]

after a fantastic pole winning lap from Lewis Hamilton today i would sugest that he has answered another question that people have been posing this season, that of "yeah, but how will he perform under extreme pressure, or when things aren't going his way"

i don't think the pressure on the young lad's shoulders could have been much greater, first home GP, leading the championship and everyone wnats a piece of him, fans, press, rappers. he arrives at the circuit in te midst of an industrial espionage scandal and appreantly appears to not only not have the fastest car, but also to be lagging behind his teammate in most of the sessions this weekend.

...until that final lap of qually 3, currently "only" 4th on the grid and seemingly no hope of making the front row he pulls one out of the bag to send the highly expectant crowd wild and snatch the polefor the (so far) biggest race of his life.

can he handle the pressure? Hell Yeah!

yes, he might be running light, yes Kimi made an error, but crucialy, when there was no further opportunity he took his chance, another step up the ladder for Lewis, and i for one, am loving every minute of it.

:)



I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAY!

Lewis is beginning to silence his 'what if ' critics race by race,
all credit goes to Lewis. his dad & McLaren topbrass who kept the faith in him to give the top seat...

Go on Lewis you can beat the rest fair & square!

[Robinho]

I think the idea was... lets see him when his car breaks for no reason in quals and has to come from the back

I don´t know how stressful is for a driver the fact that there are people in the stands watching them.

I can´t see what´s the big deal? And lets wait and see how much fuel he has, how is he going to handle KR this time, lets wait for the race to end!

Not that I want something to happen to him... I personally want a McLaren 1-2 again


sure he'll face tougher times, the car will let him down, he'll stack it in practice and have to use the spare, or come from the back of the grid, but until now this has to be the most pressure he's faced yet in F1, Kimi and Alonso on fire, not the fastest car but still pulled it off.

as for the pressure of the fans, have you played sport before? even the lowest level football or athletics, or tennis, something for a school or local club, or at an amateur or even at a professional level?

if you have you wil know how nervous you can get, how much the pressure of team mates, supporters, family etc can get to you, and equally how great it can feel to get support.

magnify anything you may have felt before (unless i have you wrong and have regularly played sport at an international level) by several multiple, throw in the fact that its your first home appearance and the fact that you go their leading/winning whatever you excel at - that is imense pressure, which at his age he is handling, maybe even harnessing to a great effect.

sure he'll face more adveristy in his career, but this is another pointer that he seems to be able to handle most things which would turn most people (me included) to jelly

[wedge]

yes, he might be running light, yes Kimi made an error, but crucialy, when there was no further opportunity he took his chance, another step up the ladder for Lewis, and i for one, am loving every minute of it.

:)

Both Kimi and Lewis made mistakes on the very last corner.

Luffield was a double apex corner and they both carried too much speed on entry and both wanted to stab the throttle as quickly as possible and therefore both missed the final apex.

The difference was Kimi understeered off Luffield and Lewis managed to get the rear to slide enough to point in a straight-line.

Great stuff!

Lewis has been a quick learner but I find it unusual Lewis admitted he was working his confidence for taking Copse flat out. Whether it was due to lack of local knowledge or because he was unsure how the car would handle on the limit, or a combination of the two?

[Zico]

I find it unusual Lewis admitted he was working his confidence for taking Copse flat out. Whether it was due to lack of local knowledge or because he was unsure how the car would handle on the limit, or a combination of the two?


He knows the track but I supose the lines/braking points/ cornering speeds are so different from GP2 that in a way he has to relearn the track?

[Valve Bounce]

When a guy qualifies fast, the reasoning that he is running light is not far behind. I guess we'll just have to wait till the first round of pit stops to really find out.

I just wish everyone is qualifying on low fuel, so we can see who really IS fastest. This current qualifying rule is confusing, not to mention the first 10 minutes of Q3 is meaningless - that's when I go for my shower.

[MrPonx]

personally I think he won't be on thee podium tomorrow... I hope I'll be right:P

[Big Ben]

as for the pressure of the fans, have you played sport before? even the lowest level football or athletics, or tennis, something for a school or local club, or at an amateur or even at a professional level?

if you have you wil know how nervous you can get, how much the pressure of team mates, supporters, family etc can get to you, and equally how great it can feel to get support.

magnify anything you may have felt before (unless i have you wrong and have regularly played sport at an international level) by several multiple, throw in the fact that its your first home appearance and the fact that you go their leading/winning whatever you excel at - that is imense pressure, which at his age he is handling, maybe even harnessing to a great effect.

sure he'll face more adveristy in his career, but this is another pointer that he seems to be able to handle most things which would turn most people (me included) to jelly

I would probably s--t my pants. That´s not my point. I think he´s pretty used to this already...

[Mintexmemory]

personally I think he won't be on thee podium tomorrow... I hope I'll be right:P
Sorry, even if Kimi outdrags him to the 1st corner Massa and Alonso will be behind him, top two definitely unless my predicted top four off at corner 1 happens and Heidfeld picks up the pieces! :s mokin:
Go Lewis!

[truefan72]

personally I think he won't be on thee podium tomorrow... I hope I'll be right:P

why?

[Valve Bounce]

why?


Well, Ralfie is going to take up one step, then Quick Nick, and I think DC will sneak up onto the third step. Dreamt that last night. :(

[Hawkmoon]

why?

Well, I think the Ferraris were both heavier in qualifying and faster in race trim. Even if McLaren are 1-2 after turn 1 I think the Ferraris will shadow them until the stops and either pass them after the first or run a longer second stint and pass them after the second.

I also think that Alonso looks like he's in the mood to spoil Hamilton's little love-fest. I think Alonso will get the better of Hamilton for the first time since Monaco.

Ofcourse, they could all end up in the gravel after turn 1 and Ralf will win. :D

[Hondo]

I hope Ralf and Fisi don't get a good enough jump at the start to cause carnage amongst the front runners in the 1st corner.

[kalasend]

He is impressive for sure. But let's say......Hamilton hasn't so far tasted the worst that others had tasted?

Yes, he continues to shut critics up. But what is this a thread? Some closure statement? A mid-season out-of-no-where praise? Or, the yay-Lewis-got-home-gp-pole-and-I-am-all-too-emotional-thought-I-had-to-
write-something-up thread?

Man, I thought only the British media loves to spin around LH, but coming to think of it, if spinning around LH does not help them sell, they probably wouldn't have been spinning around him.

[F1boat]

Hamilton made a decent lap, but the way he jumped from 4th to 1st makes me to think that he is lighter than his teammate and the Ferrari drivers. If Alonso passes Kimi at the start, though, Lewis is gonna win this race.

[jas123f1]

Even if i was keeping my fingers crossed for Kimi and Massa I must say that it's nice to see Lewis in action and obviously he has capacity also to handle trying conditions. But all drivers in F1 meet misfortune and counterblows. It's nothing anybody want - but that way it is.. however nice guy. :)

[Valve Bounce]

It will all come to light at the first round of pitstops, unfortunately. How awful for us to watch an F1 race, knowing it will be decided at pitstops. What the hell has happened to motor racing? Do they race against cars or what? If we only stopped and thought about it - this is an abberation that F1 has degenerated to.

[MrPonx]

exactly what I've been dicussing with a friend earlir today valve!! this environment and cost cutting crap is hurting the sport.

F1 is an expensive sport and if you can't affford it you don't deserve to be part of it.

[ioan]

It will all come to light at the first round of pitstops, unfortunately. How awful for us to watch an F1 race, knowing it will be decided at pitstops. What the hell has happened to motor racing? Do they race against cars or what? If we only stopped and thought about it - this is an abberation that F1 has degenerated to.

If it wasn't for the technology and the nostalgia I wouldn't watch it at all, as the sporting side is gone.

[F1boat]

I agree. I watch it because of habit and today I thought hard whether to watch the race or to go and see the "Transformers". I will watch the race, after all, but I do enjoy Indy Car, Champ Car and even NASCAR a lot more these days.

[veeten]

hmmmmm... was that really Hamilton in that car, or was it a Holographic image? :dozey:

Check the car to make sure that it doesn't have one of these on it...

1033


:p :

[F1boat]

ROFL!!!
He is Megatron!

[Robinho]

how dare you, he is clearly Optimus Prime! ;)

[Robinho]

When a guy qualifies fast, the reasoning that he is running light is not far behind. I guess we'll just have to wait till the first round of pit stops to really find out.

I just wish everyone is qualifying on low fuel, so we can see who really IS fastest. This current qualifying rule is confusing, not to mention the first 10 minutes of Q3 is meaningless - that's when I go for my shower.

Martin Brundle keeps suggesting the same, that he feels they should declare their fuel by closed ballot to the FIA prior to the final session and then run the final qually period on low fuel. That way teams get to go for their strategy, they stil keep it secret and we get to see the fastest guys battle it out on an equal footing for pole position, saves all the conjecture after the session and has to be better for the fans

[F1boat]

how dare you, he is clearly Optimus Prime! ;)

It depends on which team you support! ;)

[ioan]

after a fantastic pole winning lap from Lewis Hamilton today i would sugest that he has answered another question that people have been posing this season, that of "yeah, but how will he perform under extreme pressure, or when things aren't going his way"

Race over, no big deal from Chop Lewi! :D

[F1boat]

As I hoped - Hamilton had very little fuel. Kimi and Fred were fantastic!

[Big Ben]

He almost did a albers there :laugh:

[ioan]

He almost did a albers there :laugh:

Well, he is not that good after all!
And all this coming after these praises for his "magnificent" pole position.

[F1boat]

The race was good, BTW. Very cool!

[Big Ben]

Well, he is not that good after all!
And all this coming after these praises for his "magnificent" pole position.

I don´t know about the others but I found the way things developed in Q3 exciting not the fact that LH got the pole... That´s not such a big event... It usually depends on how much fuel the drivers have... I don´t think it´s that relevant nowadays
One example: Hungaroring 2006.. KR got the pole by mistake :laugh: ...

[ArrowsFA1]

Well, he is not that good after all!
That says everything about the high standards and expectations Hamilton has set so far this year. Yet another podium and a 12 point lead in the WDC.

Also, interesting to read that you agree with Alonso (remember Monza?) about the sporting side of F1 ;)

[Robinho]

it was still a great pole under pressure, but it seems the pressure told eventually. a good salvage job to get another podium, but had Massa not stalled i don't think Lewis would have maintained the podium run.

but he's done well on a bad day, so not all lost, given that Kimi, Alonso and Massa have all had worse bad days when their luck has not been in, or the car has not been beneath them.

this championship is nothing if not wide open, i wouldn't like to pick a winner, but i'd have to say Ferarri have the edge on speed, whereas the McLarens have the top positions in the champ, it is a fascinating battle

[VkmSpouge]

Even without the mistake in the pits Hamilton probably would have finished 3rd. He simply couldn't match the pace of Raikkonen and Alonso.

[andreag]

Even without the mistake in the pits Hamilton probably would have finished 3rd. He simply couldn't match the pace of Raikkonen and Alonso.
Of course the "mistake" in the pits have meant nothing.

Lewis' first pit stop lasted 26.170 seconds for a fuel load of 22 laps (FIA official time). His second one lasted 25.557 seconds for a fuel load of 21 laps.

Fernando's second pit stop lasted 25.923 seconds for a fuel load of 22 laps.

So, he really loose 0.247 seconds on the "mistake", and this can't justify him passing from 1st to 3rd.

He was fast in his first stint, but not enough, as he couldn't go away from Kimi (2 laps heavier) and Fernando (4 laps heavier). The last two stints were even worst, loosing a second per lap against Fernando.

McLaren made a mistake (again, and the count goes to ...) with the pit strategy, with a short second stint for Fernando. They knew he was faster (he qualifyed .200 behind Lewis with 5 more fuel laps than him), so they should have make a longer second stint; it has been of 17 laps, and 20 would be perfect, to keep Kimi behind after the second pit stop.

It makes no sense a first stop 4 laps after his teammate, and the second 1 lap before.

And I agree that if Felipe hadn't stalled, Lewis would finished outside the podium.

[ojciec dyrektor]

McLaren made a mistake (again, and the count goes to ...) with the pit strategy, with a short second stint for Fernando. They knew he was faster (he qualifyed .200 behind Lewis with 5 more fuel laps than him), so they should have make a longer second stint; it has been of 17 laps, and 20 would be perfect, to keep Kimi behind after the second pit stop.

It makes no sense a first stop 4 laps after his teammate, and the second 1 lap before.


If Alonso had longer first pit Kimi would be 1st after first and not second stop. They shortened second stint with hope Alonso run away but Ferrari was to fast.

[ioan]

If Alonso had longer first pit Kimi would be 1st after first and not second stop. They shortened second stint with hope Alonso run away but Ferrari was to fast.

I believe he could have put in enough fuel to stay out 4 more laps without losing the 1st place after the first stop. What I'm not sure however is if he would have got the pace to stay in front of Kimi if his car would have been that much heavier.

[race aficionado]

Lewis continues to answer all questions.
third place today, 9th consecutive pole and 12 points ahead in the championship.
Also, good for Alonso - he's not backing off and yo boot, the Red cars are now armed to their teeth.

not bad at all. Way cool I would say.

:)

[ioan]

Lewis continues to answer all questions.
third place today, 9th consecutive pole...

Now now, cool down and think again! :p :

[race aficionado]

Now now, cool down and think again! :p :

oh stuff it Ioan! :mad: :p :

a pole . . . . a podium . . . .


*take 2 . . . .
Lewis continues to answer all questions.
third place today, 9th consecutive podium and 12 points ahead in the championship.
Also, good for Alonso - he's not backing off and to boot, the Red cars are now armed to their teeth.

not bad at all. Way cool I would say.

thanks for the pointer ioan.

:s mokin:

[ioan]

thanks for the pointer ioan.

:s mokin:

Just keeping Lewi fans honest! :s mokin:

[race aficionado]

Just keeping Lewi fans honest! :s mokin:

and a Massa fan, a Kimi fan, and also an Alonso fan . . . .
and of course a JPM fan :eek: woops! wrong forum. :p :


a racin' fan
:s mokin:

[andreag]

If Alonso had longer first pit Kimi would be 1st after first and not second stop. They shortened second stint with hope Alonso run away but Ferrari was to fast.
His second pit stop was 6 laps before Kimi's one. Loading the fuel needed for just 3 more laps on first pit stop, wouldn't delay him enough for Kimi to pass him then, and would make impossible to pass in the second (take a look at the lap times and the differences).



I believe he could have put in enough fuel to stay out 4 more laps without losing the 1st place after the first stop. What I'm not sure however is if he would have got the pace to stay in front of Kimi if his car would have been that much heavier.
Thanks for your agreement on your first sentence, by I have to objects your second:

The perfect first pit stop would be for 3 more laps (not 4); that would leave Fernando with a fuel load for 20 laps (the same he had on his first stint, and 2 less than he had on his third stint). In neither of those stints, Fernando looked clearly slower than Kimi, and in both of them he was clearly faster than Fisichella, Heidfeld or Kubica, and none of those three drivers could be passed on track by the other Ferrari (which showed a similar pace to Kimi's car when drove in a free track).

During the second stint, Fernando run around half second per lap faster than Kimi, and 3 more laps of fuel load would never make him so much slower.

I.M.O. it's just a strategy mistake what caused Fernando not winning the race.

[Ranger]

Considering how much he dropped off in race, it sort of puts that pole lap into context, methinks.

[Valve Bounce]

Martin Brundle keeps suggesting the same, that he feels they should declare their fuel by closed ballot to the FIA prior to the final session and then run the final qually period on low fuel. That way teams get to go for their strategy, they stil keep it secret and we get to see the fastest guys battle it out on an equal footing for pole position, saves all the conjecture after the session and has to be better for the fans

I just don't understand why Race Engineers/Team Managers have to declare anything for the race at all.

At present, Q3 is a contrived procession until the last 2 minutes. I usually go and have my shower at hte start of Q3 and come back later to follow it on live timing and I miss nothing at all. Q3 is staged so that spectators can see cars going round the track, and the cars have to lap near their best times (a % is specified by the FIA here) or be penalised.

Of course, if the cars are permitted 4 timed laps in Q3, two to be taken in the first quarter hour and two in the final quarter hour, then all the shennanigans will stop.

I personally favour the cars being fueled up just before the parade lap, with due consideration being given to weather conditions and track temperatures, and tyres selected. I don't like this idea of forcing teams to use both sets of tyres - why not let the teams choose whichever tyre they want to run on from the two (or three) compounds offered by Bridgestone? Let the team managers eyeball each other, bluff with tyre selection and/or fuel load and pit stop strategies depending on where their cars have qualified and how the cars handle on the track conditions they will race on.

The FIA should position themselves to ensure that races are run fairly to the set rules, not determine how each race is to be run. That is not their role - that's the Team Managers' role.

Sorry for the long post, but this issue has been bugging me all year.

[ClarkFan]

I just don't understand why Race Engineers/Team Managers have to declare anything for the race at all.


Because Max and Bernie like contrived drama. Geeze, Valve, haven't you been paying attention the past few years?

:p

ClarkFan

[ioan]

Considering how much he dropped off in race, it sort of puts that pole lap into context, methinks.

It was just for the show. Having Hamilton on pole must have got them a few thousands more spectators on Sunday. From a sporting POV that pole position is worth nothing, it was just free publicity, any of the following 3 drivers could have beaten him on equal fuel load, and after the race I would say they would have all beaten him if that would have been the case.

[Shalafi]

In last two races Hamiltons racepace has been far from impressive. He has been easily slowest of the top-4 and lucky that first Alonso and then Massa had reliability problems. Now it seems that he is trying to drive safely and just collect points. However, Ferrari seems quicker car now and both Kimi and Felipe are driving solidly and fast, Alonso also seems to get better compared to Lewis...so, interesting to see what will happen when his lead keeps shrinking. Then we will see how he reacts in real pressure, can he up his driving or will it lead to errors. Having managed to get such a great lead in championship, he is now the man who has the most pressure to lose that lead. Beginning of the season he didnt have pressure because no-one expected him to drive for WDC this year, so it has been pretty non-pressure situation so far. Now we will soon see what happens when real pressure is on.

[ArrowsFA1]

It was just for the show...From a sporting POV that pole position is worth nothing, it was just free publicity, any of the following 3 drivers could have beaten him on equal fuel load...
Funny how those following 3 drivers are behind him in the championship. Lewis sure is putting on a fine "show".

[F1boat]

In last two races Hamiltons racepace has been far from impressive. He has been easily slowest of the top-4 and lucky that first Alonso and then Massa had reliability problems. Now it seems that he is trying to drive safely and just collect points. However, Ferrari seems quicker car now and both Kimi and Felipe are driving solidly and fast, Alonso also seems to get better compared to Lewis...so, interesting to see what will happen when his lead keeps shrinking. Then we will see how he reacts in real pressure, can he up his driving or will it lead to errors. Having managed to get such a great lead in championship, he is now the man who has the most pressure to lose that lead. Beginning of the season he didnt have pressure because no-one expected him to drive for WDC this year, so it has been pretty non-pressure situation so far. Now we will soon see what happens when real pressure is on.

I think that in the GP 2 Hamilton took enormous advantage in the beginning of the series, while in the end he had problems with holding Piquet jnr. I personally think that without the internal help of Ron Dennis, he wouldn't be a championship leader.
But F1 needs new megastar after Shumacher retired and there you go.

[ArrowsFA1]

I think that in the GP 2 Hamilton took enormous advantage in the beginning of the series...
Far from it. Piquet won the first race of the 2006 GP2 series and it wasn't until the 9th round (Monaco) that Hamilton actually headed Piquet in the points standings.

[Valve Bounce]

But F1 needs new megastar after Shumacher retired and there you go.


One word : Kimi. End of story.

[samuratt]

For the first time this year Hamilton did not use Fernando's setup on his car and he lost more than 30secs.

Hamilton has been very impresive so far, even if he had exactly the same car than Fernando's he has been able to beat him (spain, canada and USA). So he has done a great job so far but he has a lot of things he must improve: like setting up your own car! ;)

On the other hand I think we can have a hell of a championship with two teams and four drivers fighting for it. Something we haven't seen in years. I like the renewed Ferrari's approach to racing letting both drviers compete for the points (as well as McLaren).

Bring on Nurburgring!

[ArrowsFA1]

For the first time this year Hamilton did not use Fernando's setup on his car and he lost more than 30secs.
Do we know it was the first time? We know both McLaren drivers have access to each others data, but I haven't seen it said that LH always used Alonso's setup. Looking at how "tail-happy" LH's car is compared to FA's I'd be surprised if their final race setups are similar.

That's not to say that Hamilton does not benefit from Alonso's knowledge at the start of a race weekend.

[OTA]

Could it be that the 2 Michelin boys are catching up with the stones? They have both complained in the past?
And about LH, very fine show Arrows, but the saturday stage wasn't the prettiest taking Sunday into account.

Cheers
David

[OTA]

Forgot to say this. What's LH suposse to do, close his eyes and not look at FA data. A real stupidity me thinks. And Mac cannnot possibly keep information that could help a driver away from him. It would not be fair at all with LH. However, it is entirely fair for Alonso to play hide and seek, which I think he's starting to do. After all they are fighting for the big prize.

Cheers
David

[Garry Walker]

I.M.O. it's just a strategy mistake what caused Fernando not winning the race.
No. totally wrong. Your explanation wasnt correct either. If they had given him 3 laps more fuel, then 1)He could have been possibly gotten passed by Kimi
2)Even if he hadnt been passed, he could never have opened the gap he did open in his 2nd stint.

[Garry Walker]

One word : Kimi. End of story.

Kimi will never be a megastar, even if he wins 3 titles in row. He simply doesnt have the character for it.

[Ian McC]

For the first time this year Hamilton did not use Fernando's setup on his car and he lost more than 30secs.


:dozey:

[andreag]

No. totally wrong. Your explanation wasnt correct either. If they had given him 3 laps more fuel, then 1)He could have been possibly gotten passed by Kimi
2)Even if he hadnt been passed, he could never have opened the gap he did open in his 2nd stint.
1.- If they had given Fernando 3 laps more of fuel on first pit stop, it would only delayed him half a second (of pit stop time), and remember he rejoined the race 2.5 seconds in front of Kimi. So there's no way Kimi would recover 2.5 seconds just for the time nedded for this estra amount of fuel.

2.- On his second stint, he drove .5 faster the Kimi on every lap. With only 3 more laps of fuel, the difference could go down to .3 or .2 faster per lap (never slower, it makes no sense being slower with only this small extra load), so he would have lost not more than 1.5 seconds on track, which is not enough for Kimi to overtook him on the pit stop, specially as he would pit 3 laps after lapping the group of Rosberg, and not just after this.

Don't forget he qualifyed 50 cents slower than Kimi with 6 laps more of fuel, and Kimi couldn't run from him during the first stint (when Fernando was much heavier).

[Valve Bounce]

Kimi will never be a megastar, even if he wins 3 titles in row. He simply doesnt have the character for it.

I know I usually don't bother to respond to rsilly posts, but I just cannot resist pointing this out to you: Kimi is already a Megastar

Furthemore, any driver who can win three titles in a row will automatically be a Megastar.
I cannot see what chracter has got to do with being a Megastar - just look at SchM's history and you will get the gist of it.
However, I promise not to be urged into responding to any other silly posts from you.

[Hawkmoon]

Don't forget he qualifyed 50 cents slower than Kimi with 6 laps more of fuel, and Kimi couldn't run from him during the first stint (when Fernando was much heavier).

Where did you get Alonso having 6 laps more fuel in qualifying than Raikkonen? Kimi stopped on lap 18 and Alonso on lap 20. That's two laps more fuel, not 6. Unless you're suggesting that McLaren stopped Alonso 4 laps early for some reason.

McLaren short filled Alonso in the first stop purely to get ahead of Kimi. Kimi's second stop came on lap 43, six laps after Alonso's on lap 37. This means that Alonso had 17 laps of fuel in the second stint and Kimi had 25. Even with 8 laps less fuel on board Alonso was not able to build up a big enough gap to keep his lead after the second stops. Kimi was simply too quick this day.

Alonso himself admitted that they gambled on the short second stint and that they didn't have the pace to beat Ferrari. Alonso didn't lose because of bad strategy. He lost because his car simply wasn't fast enough.

[Valve Bounce]

Where did you get Alonso having 6 laps more fuel in qualifying than Raikkonen? Kimi stopped on lap 18 and Alonso on lap 20. That's two laps more fuel, not 6. Unless you're suggesting that McLaren stopped Alonso 4 laps early for some reason.

McLaren short filled Alonso in the first stop purely to get ahead of Kimi. Kimi's second stop came on lap 43, six laps after Alonso's on lap 37. This means that Alonso had 17 laps of fuel in the second stint and Kimi had 25. Even with 8 laps less fuel on board Alonso was not able to build up a big enough gap to keep his lead after the second stops. Kimi was simply too quick this day.

Alonso himself admitted that they gambled on the short second stint and that they didn't have the pace to beat Ferrari. Alonso didn't lose because of bad strategy. He lost because his car simply wasn't fast enough.

That just about sums it up. The only reason Kimi didn't win by a bigger margin was because he ran Q3 much heavier than Lewis Hamilton and was pipped by the latter for pole. Had Lewis Hamilton been on the same fuel load as Kimi, then Kimi would have been on pole, started faster, and roared away into the sunset, never to be seen again.
When you consider Massa's pace as well then the full superiority of Ferrari can be appreciated.
Now McLaren have to sit down and do their homework and come up with something.

[N. Jones]

Wait... I thought this thread was about LH? When did it make the right turn to KR v FA???

[Valve Bounce]

Wait... I thought this thread was about LH? When did it make the right turn to KR v FA???
Well, Kimi's performance, plus Alonso's superiority despite Lewis Hamilton getting pole puts the whole Lewis Hamilton thing into context. They are the ones who have finally been shown to be the better and faster drivers.

[ioan]

2.- On his second stint, he drove .5 faster the Kimi on every lap.

I stopped reading here, and her's why:
.5 seconds/lap * 17 laps= 8.5 seconds, he also had 2.5 seconds when he rejoined after his 1st pitstop, that means he should have had 11 seconds advantage over Kimi before his 2nd stop, or if I remember it right (I might be wrong though) he only had around 4-5 seconds.

[samuratt]

Do we know it was the first time? We know both McLaren drivers have access to each others data, but I haven't seen it said that LH always used Alonso's setup. Looking at how "tail-happy" LH's car is compared to FA's I'd be surprised if their final race setups are similar.

That's not to say that Hamilton does not benefit from Alonso's knowledge at the start of a race weekend.

We do not know if it was the first time or not, but we do not know for sure he has not been doing this from the start of the seasson, don't we?. I mean, do you have any proof that Hamilton is setting his car on his own? But we do have this:
http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,1895...482039,00.html

And here he clearly states that not having the rear wing as Fernarndo cost him dearly and that he will learn from it (how? by having Fernando's set up for the next race :D ). The first time he talks about setups and he says that this time he did not have Fernando's... mmmm

You can ask Alonso too about what he thinks of it. In a recent interview he said that it is very dificult to beat a clon, refering to Hamilton using his setup experience and telemetry.

You can ask McLaren too, why they did not bring Lewis to the Silverstone test, and why they only brought Fernando. Maybe 60 laps with Fernando are worth than 60 laps of Hamiton or ...

The truth is that we will never know for sure. But there you have the clues. The way you look at them is up to yourself though! ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

We do not know if it was the first time or not...
:up:

That's my point. We don't know. We do know that data is shared, and it is reasonable to assume that Hamilton would benefit from Alonso's experience. Other than that, we're just speculating.

[samuratt]

:up:

That's my point. We don't know. We do know that data is shared, and it is reasonable to assume that Hamilton would benefit from Alonso's experience. Other than that, we're just speculating.

speculate is the only thing we do well around here!!!!! :D ;)

[N. Jones]

Well, Kimi's performance, plus Alonso's superiority despite Lewis Hamilton getting pole puts the whole Lewis Hamilton thing into context. They are the ones who have finally been shown to be the better and faster drivers.

Oh, ok.

Hamilton had what everyone considers an "off-race" I guess. I will hold off deeming him great until I have watched him for five years. Then we can talk about greatness...

[F1MAN2007]

speculate is the only thing we do well around here!!!!! :D ;)


I think there is no speculation in sharing data case and who set up the car.

They share the data together but we can ensure that Hamiliton (as a rookie) benefit from the experienced driver (Alonso) and when he tried to change a little bit the set up of his car not making it 100% like Alonso's car, he paid such error and learned from that.

Here is the truth on sharing data:

"He gets my data but I also get his data," he said. "However, the one that gets the car ready on a Friday is me." (Alonso)

Link : http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article1960917.ece

[samuratt]

I think there is no speculation in sharing data case and who set up the car.

They share the data together but we can ensure that Hamiliton (as a rookie) benefit from the experienced driver (Alonso) and when he tried to change a little bit the set up of his car not making it 100% like Alonso's car, he paid such error and learned from that.

Here is the truth on sharing data:

"He gets my data but I also get his data," he said. "However, the one that gets the car ready on a Friday is me." (Alonso)

Link : http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article1960917.ece



Interesting!
but anyway there are many truths out there and it is free for everyone to look for the one we like the most ;)

[Garry Walker]

1.- If they had given Fernando 3 laps more of fuel on first pit stop, it would only delayed him half a second (of pit stop time), and remember he rejoined the race 2.5 seconds in front of Kimi. So there's no way Kimi would recover 2.5 seconds just for the time nedded for this estra amount of fuel.
WRONG. The gap between Alonso and Kimi, when Alonso exited the pits for the first time was less than 1 second. I have the race on tape, I have watched it. Only during his outlap did Alonso increase the margin, by setting very fast times on fresh rubber, including up to that moment the best sector 3 time of the race. So 2 laps worth of fuel was all they could have given Alonso more probably.



2.- On his second stint, he drove .5 faster the Kimi on every lap.
Wrong. Check the times. Alonso increased the gap at the beginning of his stint with newer tyres, but as his tyres wore off he began to lap at the same pace as Kimi.



With only 3 more laps of fuel, the difference could go down to .3 or .2 faster per lap (never slower, it makes no sense being slower with only this small extra load), so he would have lost not more than 1.5 seconds on track, which is not enough for Kimi to overtook him on the pit stop, specially as he would pit 3 laps after lapping the group of Rosberg, and not just after this.
In your theory you forget that with more fuel, he would have also taken more time to reach that backmarkers group, because more fuel makes you slower.
Even if he had managed to get out in front of Kimi and had 2 laps more fuel after his first pitstop, then the gap he could have built would have been far smaller than the 5 second gap he managed to build, most likely in the region of around 2,5-3 seconds then. And that still wouldnt have been enough to stop kimi, who in that case would have had 4 more laps to do.



Don't forget he qualifyed 50 cents slower than Kimi with 6 laps more of fuel, and Kimi couldn't run from him during the first stint (when Fernando was much heavier).huh? Kimi was stuck behind Lewis in the first stint, and Alonso then had 2 laps more fuel, not 6.

[Garry Walker]

I think there is no speculation in sharing data case and who set up the car.

They share the data together but we can ensure that Hamiliton (as a rookie) benefit from the experienced driver (Alonso) and when he tried to change a little bit the set up of his car not making it 100% like Alonso's car, he paid such error and learned from that.

Here is the truth on sharing data:

"He gets my data but I also get his data," he said. "However, the one that gets the car ready on a Friday is me." (Alonso)

Link : http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article1960917.ece

Alonso sets the car up by himself? Not his engineers? What a douchebag Alonso is to make such a claim.

[F1MAN2007]

Alonso sets the car up by himself? Not his engineers? What a douchebag Alonso is to make such a claim.

From my point of view, him saying I am the one who set up the car on friday means: him (Alonso) and his engineers (or mechanics) are the ones who analyse and put toghether all the information collected and set up the car ready for friday.

Alonso has got a full and complete experince in this and if you don't agree just ask Flavio he will tell you more.

But saying this it doesn't underestimate what the rookie is also doing for his team in helping to set up a competitive car.

[Garry Walker]

I know I usually don't bother to respond to rsilly posts, but I just cannot resist pointing this out to you:
Well, I am honoured you chose to answer this time.



Kimi is already a Megastar No, he isnt. In fact, there probably isnt a megastar in F1 at this moment. I would say a megastar is a driver who people who arent interested in F1 know. They knew Schumacher, they knew Senna. The same case in basketball with Michael Jordan. Ice Hockey and Gretzky. Football and Maradona/Pele. Golf and Woods.
People not interested in F1 generally dont know Kimi. I reckon out of the current drivers Hamilton stands the best chance of becoming a megastar, because he is black (so, it is like a sensation, just like it was in Golf with Woods) and he is british, so the english speaking media, which is the most powerful in world, has it easy with him. Whereas, most struggle saying Kimis surname properly. Kimi is most surley a Star in F1, but he is nowhere the megastar Schumacher was and unless he will dominate the next 4-5 years of racing, thats how it will stay.



I cannot see what chracter has got to do with being a Megastar - just look at SchM's history and you will get the gist of it.
Schumacher became a megastar through his unbelieveable skills, him being german (helped create the love-hatred relationship with british media) and driving for Ferrari.
Kimi is a very good driver, but not Schumacher.



However, I promise not to be urged into responding to any other silly posts from you. See the tears rolling down my face?

[Valve Bounce]

You still havn't addressed your character requirement to become your version of a Megastar. I am sure you will tell us of SchM's impecable character.

[kalasend]

2.- On his second stint, he drove .5 faster the Kimi on every lap. With only 3 more laps of fuel, the difference could go down to .3 or .2 faster per lap (never slower, it makes no sense being slower with only this small extra load), so he would have lost not more than 1.5 seconds on track, which is not enough for Kimi to overtook him on the pit stop, specially as he would pit 3 laps after lapping the group of Rosberg, and not just after this.


KR's fast laps didn't turn up until FA's gone in for 2nd pit. Before this, KR's essentially tire-managing.



Don't forget he qualifyed 50 cents slower than Kimi with 6 laps more of fuel, and Kimi couldn't run from him during the first stint (when Fernando was much heavier).

KR was held up by LH during 1st stint

[Valve Bounce]

Well, I am honoured you chose to answer this time.

No, he isnt. In fact, there probably isnt a megastar in F1 at this moment. I would say a megastar is a driver who people who arent interested in F1 know. They knew Schumacher, they knew Senna. The same case in basketball with Michael Jordan. Ice Hockey and Gretzky. Football and Maradona/Pele. Golf and Woods.
People not interested in F1 generally dont know Kimi. I reckon out of the current drivers Hamilton stands the best chance of becoming a megastar, because he is black (so, it is like a sensation, just like it was in Golf with Woods) and he is british, so the english speaking media, which is the most powerful in world, has it easy with him. Whereas, most struggle saying Kimis surname properly. Kimi is most surley a Star in F1, but he is nowhere the megastar Schumacher was and unless he will dominate the next 4-5 years of racing, thats how it will stay.


Schumacher became a megastar through his unbelieveable skills, him being german (helped create the love-hatred relationship with british media) and driving for Ferrari.
Kimi is a very good driver, but not Schumacher.


See the tears rolling down my face?

Read it and weep, some more. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGIT,GGIT:2007-02,GGIT:en&q=Definition+of+Megastar

[Garry Walker]

You still havn't addressed your character requirement to become your version of a Megastar. I am sure you will tell us of SchM's impecable character.

You can become a megastar without too much of character, and Schumacher in a way was a showcase of that, but even then he clearly was better at communicating with the media than Kimi. He could make himself much more understandable and speak without mumbling, unlike Kimi.
What aided MS the most though was the death of Senna - all the exposure fell on him. Added to that he was german and more talented than Kimi.



Read it and weep, some more. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGIT,GGIT:2007-02,GGIT:en&q=Definition+of+Megastar

And your point is? Are you saying Button is a megastar too, because he is at least as much a celebrity as Kimi. You really have to explain your point.

[Valve Bounce]

You can become a megastar without too much of character, and Schumacher in a way was a showcase of that, but even then he clearly was better at communicating with the media than Kimi. He could make himself much more understandable and speak without mumbling, unlike Kimi.
What aided MS the most though was the death of Senna - all the exposure fell on him. Added to that he was german and more talented than Kimi.




And your point is? Are you saying Button is a megastar too, because he is at least as much a celebrity as Kimi. You really have to explain your point.


First of all, SchM's character left much to be desired. His character had nothing to do with being a megastar, which doesn't appear to fall within your requirements.

Secondly, according to the link I gace you, Kimi is already a megastar.

And I never said anything about bunsen, but yes, until this year, some would have considered him some sort of a celebrity, though I wouldn't.

[Garry Walker]

First of all, SchM's character left much to be desired. His character had nothing to do with being a megastar, which doesn't appear to fall within your requirements.

I explained it already, please read my posts more carefully.


Secondly, according to the link I gace you, Kimi is already a megastar.

Megastar: a very famous person, often an actor or actress
Going by that, most F1 drivers are megastars, although they mostly seem to offer that word pertaining the hollywood actors and actresses.



And I never said anything about bunsen, but yes, until this year, some would have considered him some sort of a celebrity, though I wouldn't.
No you didnt say anything about Button, but he is about as well known as Kimi.
So going by the definition of megastar dictionary.com offers, he is a megastar too, which I do not think he is. My interpretation of the word just differs a bit then :)

[Valve Bounce]

Kimi will never be a megastar, even if he wins 3 titles in row. He simply doesnt have the character for it.

Well, can you then explain this statement of yours then.

and then :
You can become a megastar without too much of character,

In fact, I wil go as far as to say that many have become megastars without any decent character whatsoever; would you agree with that?