SEAT looking for rule break

[BDunnell]

This from Autosport:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60218

I don't know what's wrong with how things used to be. If a manufacturer entered a model that had fundamental flaws as a racing car, they just had to put up with being unsuccessful. Yet today they expect to be helped by whichever championship they are in. We've seen this with the Abt Audis in the DTM, Chevrolet in the WTCC, and now SEAT in the WTCC as well. I hope the BTCC continues to resist SEAT's pressure on this point.

The trouble is that every championship now needs as many manufacturers as possible, hence the examples of bowing to the teams' demands. Personally, I'm uncomfortable with it.

[The Ripper]

Not much changes at seat, they've been bleating about how rules should be changed to suit them since they entered.

[VkmSpouge]

I don't see what Plato's complaining about. So his car is a little slower than others in a straight line? It's hardly affected them this season with 5 wins, 2nd in the Drivers' Championship and 2nd in the Teams' Championship. If SEAT end up getting a rule break why not Kerry's BMW or the BTC Lexus?

[VXRDartford]

I think alan gow hit the nail on the head when he said that Seat are paying the price for a lack of winter development of the leon. As a Plato fan I want him to win but I don't understand why he needs to moan about things they are still doing rather well in the championship and I still think he will win the title.

He is starting to sound like matt neal and team dynamics when things don't go there way!!

[racer69]

Manufacturers seem to think nowadays they can be lax (or is that cheap?) when it comes to developing the car, yet they'll still get to win races thanks to the championship organisers slowing others down or whatever to help them do so......disgraceful!

Even Seat admit the Leon isn't well suited to the rules.......why did they build it in the first place then!

[Dave B]

Fair enough when there was a question mark over the equality of BTC and S2000 spec cars; but now that all the front-runners have the same equipment then there's no case for a rule change.

[ready2rock]

Surely there can't be that much of a problem if he's only second by one point. The racing should take place on the track not off it IMHO

[AlexD]

It's not exactly a terrible problem is it? Both drivers have won in that car. Just Plato doing the usual complaing when he doesn't do very well...blah..

Seat aren't exactly the team having the worst time out there, are they?

[ready2rock]

It's not exactly a terrible problem is it? Both drivers have won in that car. Just Plato doing the usual complaing when he doesn't do very well...blah..

Seat aren't exactly the team having the worst time out there, are they?

exactly my point :) personally, i think plato is just kicking off because he's second being beaten by a car that is new this year

[ATF]

What?! This is ridiculous!! Read this quote from Scott Dennis:

"It is recognised in the World Touring Car Championship that the car has drawbacks and they look at ways of addressing that...it's frustrating to have our hands shackled."

Did Audi get any compensation when they changed from 4WD to 2WD, or when Peugeot re-entered in 2001? No, their cars weren't good enough to win - that's their fault, not the BTCCs! Don't use the Leon if it's not suitable for a touring car!!!

[Allyc85]

*yawn* seat are so boring, get on with it and race! If they think they deserve a weight break, what about Kerry in a diesel or others that cant afford to develop a car like seat can!

[Mallory1386]

Look at Vauxhall the Astra clearly wasn't up to the job, so they switched to the Vectra and look at the results they are getting now. Now if only Seat currently produced a saloon car, or would Plato find something else to complain about

[nicemms]

Its not Alan Gow's fault that the car hasn't been properly developed or that other cars are better than them.

Like Mallory Said Vauxhall new the Astra wasn't up to the job but they didn't ask for a weight advantage or similar.

[BDunnell]

What?! This is ridiculous!! Read this quote from Scott Dennis:

"It is recognised in the World Touring Car Championship that the car has drawbacks and they look at ways of addressing that...it's frustrating to have our hands shackled."

Did Audi get any compensation when they changed from 4WD to 2WD, or when Peugeot re-entered in 2001? No, their cars weren't good enough to win - that's their fault, not the BTCCs! Don't use the Leon if it's not suitable for a touring car!!!

Exactly. They have shackled their own hands by using the Leon, if it's that bad.

If they end up pulling out of the series after this season as a result of not being 'helped', so be it. Hopefully it won't come to that, but you never know.

[Winchester]

Yawn yawn yawn!
Sorry Mr Plato, I will usually defend you but this is just ridiculous.
SEAT spent the best part of 2005 moaning about the weight dispensation they they thought they should have been given.
In 2006 they moaned about the Integra because they didn't think it was 'in the spirit' of the regs as it wasn't built in the uk.
Fair point maybe, but in Mr Plato's own words (to me in an interview last July) - "2007 will be an equal playing field because we all will have S2000 cars"
Now in 07, the others catch up and SEAT don't have the advantage they thought they would.
So what happens? Surprise, surprise - Mr Plato starts moaning again.
Change the record, please!

[ADnet]

So they've built an s2000 hatch, which will blatently be aerodynamically flawed due to it being a hatchback! and now they want to be dug out of their hole? lol

I don't see A-Tech saying "yeah we're well off the pace, can we stick a V8 in there?"

They just need to get on with it!

[AlexD]

They entered about fifty Leons in the WTCC last year, with an all-star driver line up....and still failed to beat Priaulx and the Beemer boys. Maybe they should've taken a hint?

As Seat don't have a saloon, VW group should enter a Jetta, and Octavia or a Passat.

[Captain VXR]

Seat may have a saloon in 2009

[ADnet]

Seat may have a saloon in 2009

Care to elaborate? ;)

[SEATFreak]

On the issue of the rule break, it concerns something I know little to nothing about but I totally agree about the general census on this thread. As much as a SEAT in the low points scoring places pains me, I must bear in mind it is by far the worst thing. The team has never been out of the top 9 - the lowest is 8th and every time a Leon has achieved a fast lap it has been the fastest in the race. Such as at Croft Turners 1:27.482 beat Turkingtons 1:27.852.

They are succesful. Just not yet outright the top team in the BTCC

[Captain VXR]

Care to elaborate? ;)

Well Auto Express say that their sources have found out that the Toledo will be axed and replaced by a saloon called the Bolero

[Daniel]

Well Auto Express say that their sources have found out that the Toledo will be axed and replaced by a saloon called the Bolero
Auto Express isn't worth the paper it's printed on. I'd sooner believe something written on a toilet wall over Auto Express!

[SEATFreak]

http://www.zercustoms.com/news/SEAT-Bolero.html

[Captain VXR]

For those that can't be bothered to go on the link

Seat has announced that they will replace its Toledo hatchback with a sedan next year. The next model will be called SEAT Bolero.

[Allyc85]

looks a bit porky lol, still its alot better looking than the current car!

[Iain]

Blatant Photoshop

[AlexD]

Not a photoshop, that was a genuine Seat concept car about ten years ago.
http://www.ritzsite.net/RAI99CON/SEAT_Bolero_sint.jpg

The new one won't look like that, it'll probably take styling cues from the Leon, but it will be called Bolero

[Rollo]

To the people at Seat:

I was under the distinct impression that motorsport should improve the breed. It also determines who happens to the best, and if you're not the best, then usually improvements are made so that you get there. Seat has had its hat in the ring for a while now, so I don't really understand this mentality at all.

Although it might be fashionable to hate Vauxhall because they're a big corporation, bear in mind that they've been in the game for 15+ seasons. They've paid their dues and had crap periods, and how did they respond? By building a better motor car.

Are Seat not prepared to work for their title?

[SEATFreak]

To the people at Seat:

I was under the distinct impression that motorsport should improve the breed. It also determines who happens to the best, and if you're not the best, then usually improvements are made so that you get there. Seat has had its hat in the ring for a while now, so I don't really understand this mentality at all.

Although it might be fashionable to hate Vauxhall because they're a big corporation, bear in mind that they've been in the game for 15+ seasons. They've paid their dues and had crap periods, and how did they respond? By building a better motor car.

Are Seat not prepared to work for their title?

Fraid' I have no disagreements there. I may be a fan of the team but that doesn't mean I have to stand up for them on everything.

But if I was to stand up for them I would say it is probably due to the frustration of making development after development, being ever more hopeful that the season will be their best, and in 4 years of operation they only have one Manufacturers Title to show for their efforts.

But as you say Vauxhall have been in the biz for 15+ years. It should have come as no surprise that VXR was able to get out a brand new car and instantly it is a potential title winning car but SEAT start both the Toledo and Leon and in both cases it was never a truly title winning car in it's first season.

VXR will always be the best. SEAT will never win anything! :(

[AlexD]

They had exactly the same problem last year, dispite tons of testing they were beaten by another new car and even now in the Wtcc it's still completely outclassed by the BMWs and even the old N-Technology Alfas.

They should really think about redesigning it. I've noticed none of the vents and grilles are now actually real anymore, they are just painted on, what does this achieve?

[janneppi]

They should really think about redesigning it. I've noticed none of the vents and grilles are now actually real anymore, they are just painted on, what does this achieve?
Better aeorodynamics would the first reason I'd go for, too many holes and shapes are unnecessary.

[BT 96]

If you look at Vauxhall and to be fair all the manufactures that have been in BTCC in recent years, history says, they have all have chosen proven championship winning teams like RML, 888,

SEAT don't have that to my knowledge.

[SEATFreak]

Plus, I feel, SEAT proves the old saying "Rome was not built in a day".

NorthernSouth, as far as I am aware, and I am sticking my neck out here in the vain hope I may be right, do not have anywhere near the experience of 888 and RML. Grant and Ian may have been toghether since 2000 when they set up the team in March of that year, but only have been together at SEAT since 2005.

[BDunnell]

I wouldn't say it's the preparation firm's fault. The car is obviously competitive on its day. Anyway, I doubt they will have done much to the cars as supplied to them by SEAT Sport.

[Iain]

I'm not sure if they need a rule-break, if a paragraph I read in an advertisement in this week's Autosport is true. In the centre pages, there is an ad for a company called Turbo Dynamics. They say:

"Volkswagen Racing isn't the only satisfied customer to work with Turbo Dynamics. SEAT Sport UK has worked with TD since 2003. It's involvement includes running cars in the SEAT Cupra Championship and the turbocharged cars competing in the BTCC, including Jason Plato's Leon. the BTCC cars take a great deal of punishment: SEAT Sport UK's record for reliability and performance in competition is a testament to Turbo Dynamics' know-how and to the unparallelled reliability of it's turbochargers."

:laugh: :p :

[SEATFreak]

"Volkswagen Racing isn't the only satisfied customer to work with Turbo Dynamics. SEAT Sport UK has worked with TD since 2003. It's involvement includes running cars in the SEAT Cupra Championship and the turbocharged cars competing in the BTCC, including Jason Plato's Leon. the BTCC cars take a great deal of punishment: SEAT Sport UK's record for reliability and performance in competition is a testament to Turbo Dynamics' know-how and to the unparallelled reliability of it's turbochargers."

If it is true then all power to them, but can you imagine a company openly admitting it has a fault?

A company surely wouldn't openly they have fault, would they?

I mean if you were the head of a team like Turbo Dynamics that does what TD does, would you openly annonce that your turbo chargers aren't competitive in the BTCC?

[Robinho]

If it is true then all power to them, but can you imagine a company openly admitting it has a fault?

A company surely wouldn't openly they have fault, would they?

I mean if you were the head of a team like Turbo Dynamics that does what TD does, would you openly annonce that your turbo chargers aren't competitive in the BTCC?

you have mildly missed the point of Iains post there SEATFreak - the advert is patently wrong, as there are no Turbochargers in the BTCC (in the petrol cars at least), the rules exclude turbo charging (the diesel BMW however is a different story)

so their advert is a blatant error, one which a company involved in motorsport shouldn't be making, it makes them look amateurish to say the least.

perhaps you missed the " ;) " in the previous post?

[Dave B]

Perhaps they know something that the scrutineers don't! :eek: :p

[SEATFreak]

perhaps you missed the " ;) " in the previous post?

Don't you mean the " :laugh: :p :"?

Because now you have told me I think the biggest thing I have missed is how much of a joke the error is given Autosport's professional status as a motorsport magazine.

[Robinho]

more of a joke the error in Turbo Dynamics advertising, but the magazine should have spotted it too