Common Sense leaves the WRC

[sal]

With lots of talented drivers unable to raise the cash to get a drive and cars being shipped hundreds of miles on the back of lorries/trains to do a Super Special on the last day of at least two WRC events ,has this made for tv spectacular finally lost the plot or is it yet more "evolution"?

Circuit racing has been the domain of money over talent for years so guess it was only a matter of time, but 2007 is already shaping to be the year when the WRC became the preserve of the renta driver.

As for shipping cars to do Super Specials...

[AndyRAC]

You couldn't make it up could you? Unbelieveable, they really are selling their soul for T.V, maybe Rally GB will follow this example and run a Superspecial at Wembley, or Silverstone maybe.
Sorry, but I really wonder were the WRC is heading, always looking for the fast buck, instead of the wider picture. As I've said before if the championship is an exciting, spectacular must-see event T.V will come calling.That means lots of manufacturers with loud, spectacular cars that privateers can afford,....
When will they learn..??

[DonJippo]

Yes I see that this sport needs more visionaires like Mr. Richards :dozey:

[Simmi]

I think even if they had a stadium special on each rally it wouldnt make any difference to the bigger picture. All it does is simply make some more money for each individual rally and raise speccy numbers. Showing something live on Eurosport 2 or whatever channel isnt going to help they might as well wait and sort out the tv fundamentals and get a good product before they go and bend over for the media. Televised stages should be Chatsworth House type mickey mouse ones where something can actually happen to affect the standings and not RoC type parades and hanging out of cars waving to half full stadiums.

[JAM]

The lack of comom sense is usual in FIA minds, in all forms of motorsport. They are lucky because in F1 thing went well all these years, but they had reasons to went wrong... pure lucky. The others motorsports are all as we see, and WRC is bad since 2000, not since 2006.

But this comon sense is not a FIA exclusive, i had some discussions here in the forum with members that have the same problem. I call it lack of comon sense but they prefered call it diferent visions....

[AndyRAC]

Maybe the new IRC is the championship to start following; okay so it hasn't got the top drivers and cars,BUT it will have greater competition and Rallies that are proper Rallies, not the short sprint farces the WRC is turning into.

[Jarek Z]

I even read somewhere that next year there will be a liaison road of 700 km between two stages on some WRC rally! I think it will be in Argentina. How clever is that?!

[jonkka]

That means lots of manufacturers with loud, spectacular cars that privateers can afford,....

Cars must be road legal and there is limit to noise that such car can make. Also, how does privateer affordable cars contribute to the show?

[Tomi]

The problem with wrc is that D.Richards want it to look good, but to have no substance, a little same like his rally team.

[DonJippo]

Rallies that are proper Rallies, not the short sprint farces the WRC is turning into.

Apart the Safari Rally which other rallies in IRC calendar are going to be a "proper" rally with more SS mileage than WRC event?

[Buzz Lightyear]

Apart the Safari Rally which other rallies in IRC calendar are going to be a "proper" rally with more SS mileage than WRC event?


They, Eurosport/IRC are thinking of backing the old RAC revival rally, Roger Albert Clark Memeroil Rally. 4 days, covering all old classic stages in UK. Jim McRAe won it this year in a Mk2 RS1800 escort.

[Simmi]

Maybe the new IRC is the championship to start following; okay so it hasn't got the top drivers and cars,BUT it will have greater competition and Rallies that are proper Rallies, not the short sprint farces the WRC is turning into.

Aren't the rallies of a similar length but with slower more boring cars? Hopefully it will blossom in a few years but I think the IRC is bad news for a stuggling WRC.

[AndyRAC]

I saw an article were somebody was quoted as saying he was interested in an RAC-type Rally in Britain, and that why has the imterest in Rallying (in Britain) waned? When i

[AndyRAC]

When I said proper Rallies I meant no Repeated Stages, more varied stages, spread out, instead of the same stages just repeated in the afternoon.

[Simmi]

I'm all for rallies like that but is that what the IRC is actually like? I dont know much about next season but does anyone have any itenaries from this season so we can compare?

[Donney]

To me one of the problems is the question of speed. For pure speed there are many other motorsport varieties, starting from drag racing to F1, Nascar.....

Rallying is not just speed, that's why IRC or S2000 doesn't have to be necessarily boring for being slower. I'm sure a Fiat Punto S200 is faster than a Escort Mk2 but for some reason that's the type of driving we miss from WRC, I like cars being thrown into corners, scandinavian flicks, big powerslides and of course I miss the times when rallies were longer and had night stages. I know things evolve and there's no point in living in the past, but there has to be a place in the middle between rallying in the 70's and WRC nowadays.

[JAMESWRC]

To me one of the problems is the question of speed. For pure speed there are many other motorsport varieties, starting from drag racing to F1, Nascar.....

Rallying is not just speed, that's why IRC or S2000 doesn't have to be necessarily boring for being slower. I'm sure a Fiat Punto S200 is faster than a Escort Mk2 but for some reason that's the type of driving we miss from WRC, I like cars being thrown into corners, scandinavian flicks, big powerslides and of course I miss the times when rallies were longer and had night stages. I know things evolve and there's no point in living in the past, but there has to be a place in the middle between rallying in the 70's and WRC nowadays.

I totally agree with this post, well said

[DonJippo]

When I said proper Rallies I meant no Repeated Stages, more varied stages, spread out, instead of the same stages just repeated in the afternoon.

Here is a link to 2006 Safari Rally itinerary and what I heard 2007 is going to be about the same http://www.motorsportkenya.com/kcbsafarirally2006/KCB%20SAFARI%20RALLY%20DRAFT%20ITINERARY%20-%202006.xls This is the Safari Rally which is going to be part of IRC and as you can see; 362km stages on closed roads, total length 838km, repeated stages...this IRC may not be exactly what the press releases are promising...

[Daniel]

Yes but it's not the WRC so it must be great. Everyone says the WRC sucks so it must suck and the IRC must be better of course :laugh:

[sollitt]

... if the championship is an exciting, spectacular must-see event T.V will come calling.
Not on this planet they don't. TV only comes calling when they get paid - lots!
When you don't have lots to pay them you do things their way.

[A.F.F.]

Aren't the rallies of a similar length but with slower more boring cars? Hopefully it will blossom in a few years but I think the IRC is bad news for a stuggling WRC.


I really don't understand how you figure the car more boring :confused:

[Daniel]

I think the move away from turbocharged cars was the most idiotic thing ever...... turbo charged engines are cheaper. They could have made them 1.6l turbocharged engines and had a cheaper series but no......

[Norwegian Blue]

A little OT but which of the 'leaving' threads were actually true?

[Daniel]

This one. Common Sense sadly couldn't get funding to do the whole season. But we may see her on selected European rounds next year.

[Buzz Lightyear]

A little OT but which of the 'leaving' threads were actually true?

Meeke and Pons.

Pons tired of spending money, Meeke has none.

[sxis]

donney well said wrc seems like a rally sprint !

[WRCfan]

It is becomming that way, longer stages where drivers are tested, less repeating of stages would be nice although nowadays it's much easier, if you dont like watching the same stage twice work it out so that you see 2 different corners over the run of one stage twice.....
For me it's the atmosphere and being right there with the cars, i admit seeing the same corner 2 times is boring although theres nothing from stopping you walking up the stage(marshall's are usually retarded especially the ones in NZ, they cant leave their post to chase you) and as long as your not a moron and stand in a place that isn't dangerous there should be no real issues.....

I must admit watching previous years the WRC has really evolved into less of a sport and more of a TV entertainment scheme...

[GigiGalliNo1]

a bit pathetic with the threads "so and so leaving the WRC" some one get rid of them!

[spyros]

Funny Seb's bike was Malcolm's gift,nice one Ford,whats for 2007?

[Jarek Z]

A little OT but which of the 'leaving' threads were actually true?

Kris Meeke, Roman Kresta, Antony Warmbold, Xevi Pons and of course Common Sense. All the others were made up by frustrated forum members.

[JAM]

I don't understand why some of you talk in repeated stages as a problem. For me repeated stages are not a problem. The Rally of Portugal, on the golden years, had repeated stages, for instance the Sintra stages near Lisbon were run 3 times!

A bigger problem than the repeated stages are the low number of stages per each leg. That is really a problem. A day with 4 or 5 stages is not very interesting, 8 or 9 would be better. If the stages are repeated or not, for me is not a problem. I only want to see stages, and the repeated stages are good for spectators.

Talking in repeated stages as a problem, with so few stages per leg, is, IMO, lack of comon sense.

I remember Rally of Portugal in the 80's with 46 special stages and one repeated with 56km - Arganil. It were 4 days of rally, he had 3 stages repeated 3 times at the beggining of the rally near Lisbon (with more that 200.000 spectators on the road in about 20km of stages). That was true rallying. I remember seing the RAC on newspapers, the Monte Carlo by night.. that were true rallyes. True challenges not suitable to dome of the modern drivers and some of the modern spectators that see everything on the computer.

[A.F.F.]

Why more stages in a day since the milage is the same in modern rallying?

[JAM]

The milage was not the same as today:

1000 lakes 1985 - 1418 km including 479 km over 50 special stages
1000 lakes 1995 - 1539 km including 530 km over 32 special stages
1000 lakes 2005 - 1363.4 km including 355.59 km over 21 special stages

At the present you don't have more than 400km of SS in a rally.

The number of stages as to deal with the interest of follow the rallying and having a story. With 2 SSS per stage what kind of excitment we had? Two changes in classification? With 9 or 10 stages you see thing changing 9 or 10 times, wich is more exciting.

[Simmi]

I really don't understand how you figure the car more boring :confused:

I've seen one rallying and it wasn't really very interesting. I just think the IRC and S2000 is a bit of a false dawn. Fair enough they are better than Group N and about on a par with JWRC cars so fit them in somewhere by all means, just not as the premiere attraction for a WRC event.

[Daniel]

They were NEVER meant to be the premier class and most likely never will be. You've seen one!!!!! :eek: We should make you forum S2000 expert because you've seen ONE S2000 car!

[Jarek Z]

I'm all for rallies like that but is that what the IRC is actually like? I dont know much about next season but does anyone have any itenaries from this season so we can compare?

Here you can see this year's time schedules for Barum Rally and Rali Vinho da Madeira, which are both IRC and ERC events:
http://www.barum.rally.cz/2006/soutezici/casharm.pdf
http://www.ralivm.com/detailedRoute/index.cfm

[AndyRAC]

Some points discussed:
Repeated stages; not necessarily bad if its just a few, I first went to the RAC Rally at Hafren, they came through at 8:20, then returned at 15:45 (the stage was reversed), that was the only stage repeated that day I think. So if it is just the first and last stage repeated then that is okay.
Rally Length;Personally I feel that 350 miles is the minimum a Rally should be, ideally about 8 stages a day.
I think we all agree that we want a strong WRC, that means a proper championship with proper events, plenty of manufacturers running 3-4 cars with less drivers on the sidelines. We don't want the WRC selling out to T.V either.

[JAM]

Dear AndyWRC

Please explain me the problem of repeated stages. I saw many comments here saying that, but i can't see where the problem is.

When defending the end of repeated stages people must look at what is behind that option. Repeating stages means many costs saved, and costs are a priority point in rallying.

With a repeated stage you save money, because you need less people, less emergency staff and structure. In the 80's, usually stages weren't repeated, but at that time the structure needed to run a stage was very short, Today the need of people is bigger and the struture is also big, because you have, for instance, better emergency answer in case of accident.

Let's see an example: A stage at 9am need to be ready at least at 8am, wich means that all must start being done by 5 or 6am. The stage as 90 cars wich means that at 12am is ended. With one hour to put things down and 1pm all the staff is ready to go to another stage and by 4pm the next stage is ready. But this is valid only if nothing happen at 9am stage, in case of hazzard you could have the stage ended at 1 or 2 pm. If you have 8 stages in a leg you need 8 structures. But if the 8 stages were repeated, then you need only 4 structures.

Another point: public. The spectators could see two stages at once with the repetition. In case of no repetition spectators must move to another stage creating traffic and problems, And in Portugal and Spain this move means rallying on the road made by spectators.

[AndyRAC]

You've misunderstood me; I don't have a oroblem with a few stages being repeated, like my example above; once the cars had been through by about 11:00 most people went back to the cars and stayed in the car park until 15:00 when the cars returned, meaning less Rally traffic on the roads.
My problem is with repeating every stage meaning very few stages are used and the Rally uses a very small area.
If it was up to me you would do stages A,B,C,D, then service, then stages E,F,B,A;just repeating the first 2 stages and reversing them later in the day. Yes repeating stages cuts costs and cut the traffic on the roads, I would just like a bit more variety.

[JAM]

The problem is not the repetition of stages that creates litle area. The litle area is created by the rule of only one service park. With one service park and not allowing the repeat of stages, then some organizers would have real problems.

Repeated stages are no problem at all. The problem is only one service park, the locations of some rallyes (Austrália and Italy for instace, they loose good rallyes by moving him).

Repeatade stages has only advantages. If you want a big area, then make the 3 legs in diferente locations and allow more than one location of service park.