So why no racing in the wet?

[LessThanSte]

Right, its something ive been wondering for a while now.

As i understand it, these cars arnt watertight and so couldnt run in the wet even if they wanted to.

However, the usual reasons trotted out for not racing in the wet are something along the lines of;

1) no wet tires
2) too powerful

The first reason is valid, though wet tires can be made and NASCAR used to have a load, infact they did a wet practice i believe at Watkins Glen once but the tires wernt used enough to make it worthwhile keeping them.

The powerful issue though is what im unsure about.

The cars are very powerful, yes, but compared to something like, say, F1 or Le Mans prototypes etc, are a little tame. In F1 or whatever, we dont see people spinning here there and everywhere (though Traction Control surely has a part to play in that), but there are plenty of other series, things like GT or, perhaps even more dangerously, bike racing, where powerful machines race in the wet without a care.

Now the reason i always assumed they wouldnt race in the wet in the US is the fact theres a concrete wall which isnt exactly inviting.

But giving that some thought, i'd have thought it would make sense that, with a decent set of nice, soft wet tires, the cars would have plenty of grip. The cornering speeds would be significantly slower, yes, and the whole driving style would be different, but i dont see that the cars could simply not handle a wet track and would be able to race on it.

So, does anyone have any reasons why NASCAR and subsequently most other series on high speed ovals decided against wet racing? Its interesting to note that most of the short ovals will race regardless of weather despite having a wall in close proximity.

The trucks show that it is doable (though, yes, they are significantly less powerful), but i for one would love to see a wet race at something like Darlington, with drivers using every ounce of skill to negotiate there way around the track, avoiding rubbing the walls, with a bit of spray (spray would rule out racing at superspeedways!).

Discuss?!?!?

(please note, i am not an idiot, am forwarding this as an actual topic of discussion and do not intend to read posts such as 'dont be a bloody idiot :P')

[Speedworx]

The spray alone is reason enough to NOT race a Cup car (or an scsa car) in the rain.

Unless they create some kind of surface that doesn't allow spray.

[LessThanSte]

Wipers?

NASCAR had them!

Besides, you only get spray when the track is actually quite wet, if its damp theres very very little. And incidently im told there are asphalts around that are designed to reduce things like spray!

[Tiesse]

F1 cars are significantly lighter & have far superior aerodynamic downforce than the SCSA cars. Plus, in circuit racing such as F1, the cars are constantly slowing down & accelarating, whereas the SCSA cars are at a constant high speed around the track at Rockingham.

I don't know, but this is my assumption for the lack of wet races.

As you have already said, the pickups are a fair bit slower & not as heavy as the V8s. That said, they were highly entertaining last year when one of the races was wet!

[chrisn]

The spray alone is reason enough to NOT race a Cup car (or an scsa car) in the rain.

Unless they create some kind of surface that doesn't allow spray.

Rockingham actually has an anti spray tarmac surface, in common with all UK circuits, as the road courses use part of the Oval and you would not want a change of surface. It is not rocket science - an anti spay surface is in essence simply a fairly open weave of surface formed by more aggregate in the mix rather than bitumen. Standing water drops into the gaps between the stones in the surface and hence spray is minimised.

If you can get close to the track surfaces you will see that in comparison the surface of a US oval circuit is normally smoother without the gaps in the tarmac - formed with a more bitumen rich mixture. Water then is more likely to run off rather than drop into the gaps, particularly with banking or a camber.

Public roads in the UK are normally built the same for the same reason. Our circuit here in Dubai is built like the local roads, with a US-style smoother surface texture. Fine but it does still rain a few days a year, even here. At this point we try keep our distance - road users here don't all tend to understand that rain means less grip and you need to slow down, the roads tend to get awash due to a lack of drainage and some road cars run semi-slicks and trucks bald tyres - bit of a receipe for disaster!

Keep safe everybody!

Chris N

[acorn]

LessThanSte, throughout your arguement you seem to be contradicting yourself:

"In F1 or whatever, we dont see people spinning here there and everywhere (though Traction Control surely has a part to play in that)," and don't forget the huge amounts of down force.

" but there are plenty of other series, things like GT or, perhaps even more dangerously, bike racing, where powerful machines race in the wet without a care". you then go on to say " The cornering speeds would be significantly slower, yes, and the whole driving style would be different," isn't that taking care?

you also say "but i don't see that the cars could simply not handle a wet track and would be able to race on it." i personally do not consider going round at reduced speed probably in a procession with little chance of overtaking "racing".

"The trucks show that it is doable (though, yes, they are significantly less powerful)," ..and the stockcars don't because.....?

"Its interesting to note that most of the short ovals will race regardless of weather despite having a wall in close proximity" yes but the speeds are so reduced that any contact damage is usually minor. really wet on a short oval is not fun though damp/drying conditions are much more interesting and a great leveller.

[LessThanSte]

So i knew there'd be someone who thought it'd be fun to take the piss. Fine!

Anyway, the trucks today showed that you can race. Its all about have a nice soft right foot, and wet tires produce tonnes of grip, im sure that if the drivers had to they would get round the track without spinning.

The heavy, heavy cars would help, bit less sliding around. It wouldnt be easy by any stretch of the imagination but who said it should be?!

Thanks to Tiesse for the nice reply :)

[Abo]

Right, its something ive been wondering for a while now.

As i understand it, these cars arnt watertight and so couldnt run in the wet even if they wanted to.

However, the usual reasons trotted out for not racing in the wet are something along the lines of;

1) no wet tires
2) too powerful

3) no wipers

[english4ever]

3) no wipers

4. no back light

[turn 4 mad]

5. not mad enough

[Old Stock Nut]

We went through all of his a few years ago. There are a number of reasons.
No wipers - screens on the Ascars are not glass and would scratch if wipers used.
Set Ups - They tried using the infield circuit in the wet to try to make it a both safer as well to avoid too much wall, but that meant having cars set up for one or the other at the start of the day because it takes too long to make the changes.
Tyres - cost of having both sets and it would take a great deal of work to do the testing - who will pay?
Weather - Rockingham was chosen for the track because it is one of the driest areas in the whole country (amongst other things, of course).
How often - in something like 5 years+, I cannot remember another day when the V8 racing had to be cancelled completely like today - had a few near misses and some hairy schedules - but then we used to have Jeff to make the necessary arrangements.
Take it from me the V8s will never run in the wet - too difficult, too expensive - even NASCAR gave up trying and they have had terrible weather this year - and cancelling a race over there has massive financial impact.

Let's all start the anti-rain dancing in time for the July meet.

[EarWig]

It is more imortant that 10 cars are available to race in good weather conditions at the next race meeting than risk having to spend their hard earned funds on repairing damage to cars possibly caused by an accident at 30 - 40 mph in the wet.
All the drivers did an excellent job at staying on the track as long as they did this morning, I was amazed they did not come in earlier.

Keith White is a top driver in the series and spun the 79 car today at 30mph today.
John Steward has driven V8 cars for longer than I care to remember (sorry "old" boy) and even he had a major wall incident in the wet at 40mph last year.

Fact: V8 trophy cars do not and will not race in any wet or damp conditions

Has anyone written the words for the anti-ran dance song yet :)
I have the band to record it.

[LessThanSte]

The spins were, um, because of cold, SLICK tires. That wouldnt happen with wet's on. Besides, i was watching Keith and he thought 'to hell with the clutch' or something to that effect when he moved off the grid, so it was hardly a surprise to see him spin with that level of lead-foot-ism.

OSN, thanks for the reply, the only one thats really had some proper reasoning behind it (the kinda thing i wanted to hear!).

I would, however, still be interested to see what one would be like with some wet tires and a top driver onboard!?!

[shortb]

the only other time i can remember no stock cars due to rain was june 2002 i think,they had a pit stop competition for entertainment!

[bravheart]

The spins were, um, because of cold, SLICK tires. That wouldnt happen with wet's on. Besides, i was watching Keith and he thought 'to hell with the clutch' or something to that effect when he moved off the grid, so it was hardly a surprise to see him spin with that level of lead-foot-ism.

OSN, thanks for the reply, the only one thats really had some proper reasoning behind it (the kinda thing i wanted to hear!).

I would, however, still be interested to see what one would be like with some wet tires and a top driver onboard!?!

"May i ask if you have ever driven one of these V8's around the Oval yet"?

[LessThanSte]

No but ive driven on both slicks and wets on a wet track and the difference is huge.

I agree that it would be interesting, and probably mighty difficult, but i dont see that it would be an absolute disaster with cars in every single wall!

[turn 4 mad]

I would, however, still be interested to see what one would be like with some wet tires and a top driver onboard!?![/QUOTE]

we actually had a pair of wets on the back of the #99 car this afternoon and it was still dangerous,
YOU try driving one of these around in the dry let alone the wet-bet you wouldnt.
ive been lucky enough to have 8 or 9 laps in the 2 seater with duncan driving last year-NEVER again.

[bravheart]

No but ive driven on both slicks and wets on a wet track and the difference is huge.

I agree that it would be interesting, and probably mighty difficult, but i dont see that it would be an absolute disaster with cars in every single wall!

Then you understand that on a track you, 1. Have run off area's & 2. Gravel traps!

I really think you should drive one of these V8's for yourself 1st! then see if you still feel the same way?

[turn 4 mad]

[quote="LessThanSte"]No but ive driven on both slicks and wets on a wet track and the difference is huge.

bet it didnt have the same bhp as the v8's

[bravheart]

Wipers?

NASCAR had them!

Besides, you only get spray when the track is actually quite wet, if its damp theres very very little. And incidently im told there are asphalts around that are designed to reduce things like spray!


Well i can asure you it doesn't, I have driven many laps around Rockingham in the wet both in Saloons, Single seaters and the 2 seater Pickup, and you get lots of spray!

[Abo]

No wipers - screens on the Ascars are not glass and would scratch if wipers used.

Wilky's pickup has a Lexan screen and it looked fine after yesterday's racing!

A lot of the drivers aren't over-keen on racing the oval in the wet; I know Wilky isn't and I think if he had his way, he'd be happy if it rained on all the road courses so it's not like he's no good in it.

Incidentally, the difference in lap times between wet and dry for the top boys was about six seconds, which is about 18 mph!

[car20]

Weather - Rockingham was chosen for the track because it is one of the driest areas in the whole country

the place is the coldest! even when the sun comes out here's hoping for better july weather

[Reynard]

Well i can asure you it doesn't, I have driven many laps around Rockingham in the wet both in Saloons, Single seaters and the 2 seater Pickup, and you get lots of spray!

Sure, agree with you! I have loads of photos from yesterday which were nothing BUT spray. And unlike at Snetterton which is wide open, the spray at Rockingham has no real chance to disperse with the short lap times and the stands keeping it in.

[deadsquirrel]

Right, its something ive been wondering for a while now.

As i understand it, these cars arnt watertight and so couldnt run in the wet even if they wanted to.

However, the usual reasons trotted out for not racing in the wet are something along the lines of;

1) no wet tires
2) too powerful

The first reason is valid, though wet tires can be made and NASCAR used to have a load, infact they did a wet practice i believe at Watkins Glen once but the tires wernt used enough to make it worthwhile keeping them.

(please note, i am not an idiot, am forwarding this as an actual topic of discussion and do not intend to read posts such as 'dont be a bloody idiot :P')

You've correctly identified that NASCAR don't run in the wet (or even damp) on ovals. With the 100-200,000 spectators and x million TV viewers, it might be reasonably assume that if anyone had an interest to make it work to race in these conditions, NASCAR would? They've had 50+ years and still haven't sorted it.

Any tyres used in SCSA wouldn't be true wet tyres and certainly wouldn't be designed for Rockingham's configuration. I believe there was a thread explaining this in the dim and distant past, and how the only Avon tyre that would fit was a 'mud tyre?'.

Pickups use some 'standard' tyre size, to which there are purpose wet tyre designs - and they therefore have more grip - I believe.

Personally, I'd rather the Pickups not be racing in the wet - because now they have no defined line to gauge when they will and won't race on wet/damp track. At the end of the day, it's up to the drivers to agree (difficult in itself) as a group what they will and won't race in. Once one guy says he'll run, you'lll get another who'll do it - then you've got a race - and increasing speeds again.

[english4ever]

No but ive driven on both slicks and wets on a wet track and the difference is huge.

I agree that it would be interesting, and probably mighty difficult, but i dont see that it would be an absolute disaster with cars in every single wall!

Your a ****.

Why would you want to see cars in the every wall, its stupid thinking. It aint safe to race the v8's in the wet. and certainly would be dangerous trying to drive round cars that are in the wall. Just driving one of the cars in a straight line in the dry is hard enough as it is let alone with no grip!

[Reynard]

Just driving one of the cars in a straight line in the dry is hard enough as it is let alone with no grip!

I agree with you there. Had an enlightening conversation with John Steward on exactly that topic yesterday, and that's pretty well much what it boiled down to.

I think these guys deserve a vast amount of respect for even contemplating driving one of these cats - you wouldn't get me doing it, that's for sure!

[hmmm - donuts]

As explained in other replies, the pricipal reasons that the V8s cannot run in the wet, whilst the pickups can, are the massive differences in weight and power. Once the V8s 'let go' it appears (I only speak from a spectators point of view - I'm not a race driver) very difficult to overcome momentum / inertia and regain control. The pickup drivers having less power and weight to contend with appear to at least have a fighting chance.

I had wondered in the past if there might be grounds for having an inbetween series such as 2.5 litre V6s, possibly in Mondeo/Vectra type skins that would be a bit slower/lighter than the V8s that might be able to run the oval in the rain. Having European body styles might encourage manufacturer involvement/sponsorship/whatever. Trouble is setting up a new racing series is expensive, but perhaps a something to think about in the future?

Regards

[Abo]

I had wondered in the past if there might be grounds for having an inbetween series such as 2.5 litre V6s, possibly in Mondeo/Vectra type skins that would be a bit slower/lighter than the V8s that might be able to run the oval in the rain. Having European body styles might encourage manufacturer involvement/sponsorship/whatever. Trouble is setting up a new racing series is expensive, but perhaps a something to think about in the future?

Regards

Eurocar V6?

[Tiesse]

A little bit off thread, but why do so many people find the need to be so aggressive & patronising in some of their answers to a fairly innocent question? Surely if somebody is asking a genuine question that can be answered by somebody, time should be taken to consider an answer that can educate that person, not ridicule them.

I shall now go & leave the door open for the masses to criticise my post (LOL)

[EarWig]

Your a ****.

Calm down Tractor - it takes all sorts to make a world :)

The support from all who know about our cars and the lack of any further response from the person who has never raced a V8 says enough.

Time to let this thread drift into the depths of the Motorsports Forums archive

PS - well done again this weekend - sterling work by the whole team.

[Abo]

Your a ****.

Why would you want to see cars in the every wall, its stupid thinking. It aint safe to race the v8's in the wet. and certainly would be dangerous trying to drive round cars that are in the wall. Just driving one of the cars in a straight line in the dry is hard enough as it is let alone with no grip!

He didn't say he wanted to see cars in every wall...

[racing59]

I agree with you there. Had an enlightening conversation with John Steward on exactly that topic yesterday, and that's pretty well much what it boiled down to.

I think these guys deserve a vast amount of respect for even contemplating driving one of these cats - you wouldn't get me doing it, that's for sure!

I'm sure if John could type, or work a computer, there would be many many more ****'s in the reply.

As others in the know may also say about this....

If you're not careful you could end up ending up in the wall. And with wet conditions, V8's end up being very loose, and that's a recipe for ending up with a big repair bill, or even ending up out of the series with a total wreck.

Me, for one, I'm more than happy racing my 700hp Astra saloon on a road course in the widdling rain, navigating through the side windows as required, but as for a V8 Trophy car in damp or worse conditions, no way Jose! You can't run one of these things on opposite lock in the turns, they snap back, bite you in the backside, and it's an impromptu interview with the wall at the wrong sort of angle (the sort that won't polish out!), generally backwards.

Rob.

[Reynard]

I'm sure if John could type, or work a computer, there would be many many more ****'s in the reply.

Rob.

Why do you think I only mentioned the gist of the conversation? :laugh: Let's just say that John's language was a little umm, fruity... :D

Actually though, one of the things he did mention was the total lack of peripheral vision, so unlike a circuit racing saloon car, as you say Rob, you just can't look out of any of the other windows.

[turn 4 mad]

Your a ****.

Why would you want to see cars in the every wall, its stupid thinking. It aint safe to race the v8's in the wet. and certainly would be dangerous trying to drive round cars that are in the wall. Just driving one of the cars in a straight line in the dry is hard enough as it is let alone with no grip!

Im sorry but i agree with english4ever on this one, a simple but to the point reply, with people on the forum asking silly questions-and yes before you say it was a silly question, is it any wonder hardly any drivers come on here any more.
Well done english4ever for speaking your mind, they allways say the truth hurts.

[Tiesse]

Surely we are trying to attract every sort of fan. From those who's knowledge base is limited to those of obvious superior intellect (yes I am being sarcastic!).

Seriously though, should we all not pull together & welcome all comers. That includes people who ask what is seen by some as a stupid question. Whilst the question may seem stupid to those forum members that have the benefit of experience, the answer may not be that obvious to any possible newbies (either to the sport or this forum) that may be reading this?

Whilst I agree that this forum is a place for opinion, I think that we all need to be a little more considerate in our comments.

Above all, lets all lighten up & not get too heavy on this!

[Henry Cutts]

I spent all day wheel spinning all the way down the straight in a 29bhp Kart, I would not want to drive a 500bhp stock car designed to turn left on a wet oval. You can be the best driver on the planet but once it goes you won't get it back. In the dry how many stock cars save a big slid.....not many!!!

[darknessrock]

It's also surprising how slippery the track was... My poxy Ford Focus 1.8 actually spun the wheels in 3rd gear coming off T3, (ok I did have the traction control turned off), But with all that water on top of lots of rubber, I beleive it would be utter madness to try and race SCSAs in anything other than perfect conditions. Surely Keith White demonstrated this, ok he was on cold slicks, but the amount of power these cars have must be unmanageable in anything other than bone dry.
Now if we could put the drivers into a transit, complete with ladders on the roof, and mickey mouse on the side, they could race in any weather... :)

[racing59]

As we say in the trade - there is no substitute for cubic inches. Torque turns wheels, and these ASA Chevy Vortec V8's have plenty.

I looked up and down the pits and saw over 10 tractor units, and thought......

[darknessrock]

Nice one rob..
at least it would give the crowd something to cheer for :) :), maybe even better if you left the trailers on, and had a "who spills the least tea" competition :) :) :)

[Tiesse]

It's also surprising how slippery the track was... My poxy Ford Focus 1.8 actually spun the wheels in 3rd gear coming off T3, (ok I did have the traction control turned off), But with all that water on top of lots of rubber, I beleive it would be utter madness to try and race SCSAs in anything other than perfect conditions. Surely Keith White demonstrated this, ok he was on cold slicks, but the amount of power these cars have must be unmanageable in anything other than bone dry.
Now if we could put the drivers into a transit, complete with ladders on the roof, and mickey mouse on the side, they could race in any weather... :)

I think that van will be the one thing that everyone will remember about the parade for ever and a day!

[Chigley]

Don't forget the driving school car. :)

[hmmm - donuts]

Eurocar V6?

Excuse my ignorance about Eurocar V6 Abo. Are these cars that could run on the oval? If so, then perhaps they could be invited to appear at Rockingham some time? If they are not able to run on the oval, then perhaps I wasn't clear about what I meant. I was wondering if there might not be another potential oval series that could run in the wet, so that if the V8s are cancelled due to weather, we might still be able to watch the pickups and something else on the oval.

Regards

[LessThanSte]

It seems that theres always a few who take the 'be aggresive' approach to a discussion.

Some have come on here and made some reasonable arguments, Mr Compton for one and thats exactly what i was after. Ive never driven one of these cars but i think i have a reasonable idea of roughly what they would behave like. For the record, i'd also love to drive one, maybe after uni!!!

[acorn]

Excuse my ignorance about Eurocar V6 Abo. Are these cars that could run on the oval? If so, then perhaps they could be invited to appear at Rockingham some time? If they are not able to run on the oval, then perhaps I wasn't clear about what I meant. I was wondering if there might not be another potential oval series that could run in the wet, so that if the V8s are cancelled due to weather, we might still be able to watch the pickups and something else on the oval.

Regards

v6 eurocars (as was) were built by shp(who build the pickup trucks) could and did run on their spiritual oval home at mallory park AS WELL AS road courses and could run in the wet. i'm not sure if they were big oval compiantie able to withstand a big hit against the wall. inviting them to rockingham may prove a challenge as their numbers reduced dramatically (from 39 cars) after being taken under the brscc's wing. they changed name to vsr v6 and are now within the vsr championship with the super silhouettes(part of last years regular rockingham thunder sundays) although i don't think any are running this year.

regardless of whether there is another suitable oval formula which could run in the wet(and meet msa regs) are you suggesting that they are "on standby" in case the v8s can't run? can't see anyone wanting to do that.

[Abo]

v6 eurocars (as was) were built by shp(who build the pickup trucks) could and did run on their spiritual oval home at mallory park AS WELL AS road courses and could run in the wet. i'm not sure if they were big oval compiantie able to withstand a big hit against the wall. inviting them to rockingham may prove a challenge as their numbers reduced dramatically (from 39 cars) after being taken under the brscc's wing. they changed name to vsr v6 and are now within the vsr championship with the super silhouettes(part of last years regular rockingham thunder sundays) although i don't think any are running this year.

I wonder where the V6 Eurocars are at the moment? I know there are a couple competing in different formula e.g. VSR but what about the rest? Are they sat in garages under covers? Track day cars? Scrapped? There *must* be some machines out there which one could get for cheap money...

I just wonder how wise a move it would be at the moment though

[hmmm - donuts]

regardless of whether there is another suitable oval formula which could run in the wet(and meet msa regs) are you suggesting that they are "on standby" in case the v8s can't run? can't see anyone wanting to do that.

No, wasn't suggesting anyone should be 'on standby' - but at the moment if the V8s are rained off then that's half the day's oval racing gone. If there were 3 oval series then cancelling the V8s still leaves four oval races, and I guess that most of us attend Rockingham to see racing on the oval - I know I do.

[racing59]

I've seen a few V6's out as trackday cars. Many were broken up for parts, some became VSR's, and so-on.

One el-problemo..... they are right hand drive. No good for the Oval.

[LessThanSte]

Coould they go the other way, like they do/did down under?

[Chigley]

Coould they go the other way, like they do/did down under?

I don't want to appear disparaging but comments like that are no-brainers. Stop and think for a minute about the sense of what you have suggested and think of all the problems that would be caused.

[LessThanSte]

Well um, the lights face the wrong way but other than that, what really would be the problem?

Suppose some tires would be needed at the end of pit wall, just incase!

[andy 123]

:vader: :vader: :vader: :vader:

[Abo]

they are right hand drive

Bugger, I'd forgotten about that

[acorn]

One el-problemo..... they are right hand drive. No good for the Oval.

sorry but you're wrong, they were left hand drive and to prove it here's a piccie.

[acorn]

and another. the super silhouettes(in the main) are right hand drive mainly coz they're msa'd ex short oval hot rods.

[PitMarshal]

I don't want to appear disparaging but comments like that are no-brainers. Stop and think for a minute about the sense of what you have suggested and think of all the problems that would be caused.

I think that's a bit harsh. The difficulties in running the 'wrong way' aren't always obvious to the average racegoer. In additon to all the lights (including the pit exit ones) facing the wrong way all sadety vehicle gaps would also have to be revised - too much to do IMO.

My own thoughts on the 'to run or not to run' issue (and I know I'm going to get shot down in flames for this) is that it mostly comes down to tyres. All the technical issues such as lights, wipers etc could be overcome if someone was sufficiently determined to do it, but ultimately that's no good if you can't get any grip. I know Avon ran tests with a wet infield circuit, but the projected cost of the tyres was absolutely astronomical. If a suitable tyre could ever be sorted than I can't see any reason why SCSA couldn't (at least try to) run in the wet.

[racing59]

sorry but you're wrong, they were left hand drive and to prove it here's a piccie.

Many appa-logies. Dunno why I was everso sure that they were RHD. I do remember the early Pickups - which were RHD - piccy on here:

http://www.casaram.demon.co.uk/index1.htm

Also shows clearly Eurocars with LHD.

Ahh, nostalgia! It ain't what it used to be!

[racing59]

I think that's a bit harsh. The difficulties in running the 'wrong way' aren't always obvious to the average racegoer. In additon to all the lights (including the pit exit ones) facing the wrong way all sadety vehicle gaps would also have to be revised - too much to do IMO.

My own thoughts on the 'to run or not to run' issue (and I know I'm going to get shot down in flames for this) is that it mostly comes down to tyres. All the technical issues such as lights, wipers etc could be overcome if someone was sufficiently determined to do it, but ultimately that's no good if you can't get any grip. I know Avon ran tests with a wet infield circuit, but the projected cost of the tyres was absolutely astronomical. If a suitable tyre could ever be sorted than I can't see any reason why SCSA couldn't (at least try to) run in the wet.

However, it doesn't get away from the fact that our main issue is that of momentum vs driver input vs centrefugal force.

On a road course, no problem, you get sideways, you navigate through the side window while correcting with opposite lock, gentle lift of gas to correct. If it goes wrong, you run off the track a bit, worst case it's kitty litter, or tyres.

On the oval, you get sideways, you turn with the spin (ie: more left hand down) to hope that the car goes down the track, not up it - into the wall, and slam on the anchors (with a V8, you may as well throw a piece of kitchen string out the window with a paper clip shaped like an anchor - as it'll be as effective as the middle pedal!).

At the end of the day, if anyone would make an effort to run in the wet on an oval, you'd expect it to be NASCAR - since that is a multi-billion dollar merchandising machine - and they took the decision not to go down that route on the grounds of safety - both driver and crowd safety.

Better disappointed than injured, crippled, or to be blunt - dead.