Alonso start antics and poor overtaking..

[f1rocks]

How long can crap be taken from this guy. He screws up the first corner and then barges back into the track like a bully. He almost took out his teammate and Heidfied. He did the same thing at Spain against Massa. Its like just because he is a 2 time WDC he can get away with this...Why didnt the FIA investigage this incident.

Moreover what a foolish move to make when overtaking Trulli. He just thought that Trulli would cave in easily and he can get by on the outside. He messed up that move and also lost out 2 more positions. Poor show by the lucky WDC...


It felt good to see him overtaken by a Super Aguri on merit....And also being beaten by a rookie...I am sure Lewis will kick his ass again in races to come. Hope he will have some good excuses ready...

[Valve Bounce]

The Renault was spcially configured with a rearward weight bias last year to improve starts, and Alonso took full advantage of that. This year, the advantage doesn't appear to be there anymore driving a McLaren, and Fernando will have to get used to that. If he takes himself out once more, his chances of winning the WDC this year will be more and more difficult, seeing Lewis has a better record of staying on track to score points.

[leopard]

Poor show by the lucky WDC...
Being a WDC is not only determined by some lucky mate, He was the best driver when no other driver on the grid better than him.
I wouldn't deny if he won the title on the BAR 'lucky strike' Honda, get the luckies :)



It felt good to see him overtaken by a Super Aguri on merit....And also being beaten by a rookie...I am sure Lewis will kick his ass again in races to come. Hope he will have some good excuses ready...
This is the fact that the champ can't accept at all. Being beaten by someone on the different team isn't as bad as by the teammate, more over this is the first season driving an F1 car on the races most of which he doesn't know whatsoever before.

This is the bone of contention of every mistake Alonso made this season, and there is no other better compliment for the shining rookie Hamilton than double left and right thumbs :up:

[Storm]

Poor show by the lucky TWO time WDC ..you should have said ;)

Yes he overcooked it into T1 on plenty of occasions but he never gave up..thats what I like about the guy, he never gives up! He kept on passing people (poor overtaking yeah right).

Inspite of having to make pit-stops just when SC was deployed and a 10 sec stop n go he did race well enough to earn 2 pts.

Yes Hamilton did beat him so well done to him but Fernando will be mad about this and fight hard to stay on top.

[Kevincal]

I'm sick of the Alonso bashing and sick of hearing about Hamilton all the damn time! Ya, he's great, but damn! Do we have to talk about him 24/7? No...The season still has a long freaking way to go, for gosh sake! :D Lewis has driven great and had good luck. A few of the other top drivers have made a mistake here or there and maybe had some bad luck... But really, the Alonso bashing is really annoying, he hasn't caused any accidents this year...so shut up!!! ;)

[Ranger]

How long can crap be taken from this guy. He screws up the first corner and then barges back into the track like a bully... Its like just because he is a 2 time WDC he can get away with this

Alonso was a clown in Montreal, no doubt about that. But coming from a Schumacher fan, accusations of Alonso's "bullying" and "dangerous" driving seem a little myopic, given the many times it happened during his career.

[wmcot]

Alonso was a clown in Montreal, no doubt about that. But coming from a Schumacher fan, accusations of Alonso's "bullying" and "dangerous" driving seem a little myopic, given the many times it happened during his career.

The worrying thing is that it's not the first race where he has gone off and just barged back onto the track in traffic! If he keeps it up, he will take somebody out! Of all the things MS did on the track, I've never seen him pull back on the track after an off without regard to traffic. That is just crazy!

[Ranger]

Of all the things MS did on the track, I've never seen him pull back on the track after an off without regard to traffic. That is just crazy!

It is laughable to suggest that Alonso's antics on Sunday are more crazy or less considerate than Schumacher shutting the door on someone at 190mph in Spa in 1995 and 2000.

Alonso was a clown on Sunday, but gimme a break...

[Racehound]

The worrying thing is that it's not the first race where he has gone off and just barged back onto the track in traffic! If he keeps it up, he will take somebody out! Of all the things MS did on the track, I've never seen him pull back on the track after an off without regard to traffic. That is just crazy!
er??????????.......adelaide 94 remind you of anything???????????? :)

[wmcot]

It is laughable to suggest that Alonso's antics on Sunday are more crazy or less considerate than Schumacher shutting the door on someone at 190mph in Spa in 1995 and 2000.

Alonso was a clown on Sunday, but gimme a break...

Look back through the other races this season, you'll see him do the same thing in at least one other race (I wish I could remember exactly which one, but it escapes me at the moment.) If it was a one-time thing, I would agree that he was a "clown" but since he continues to do it, it's not that funny.

BTW - 1995 and 2000 are in the past, I'm talking about a problem that is current!

[V12]

BTW - 1995 and 2000 are in the past, I'm talking about a problem that is current!

In which case comparing him to MS is p*ssing into the wind a little, considering he's retired now!

And yes, Alonso needs to get his act together - and quickly.

[BeansBeansBeans]

I'm getting tired of the increasingly fickle nature of F1 fans. Following Malaysia, Massa was a clown who wasn't fit to lace Kimi's boots. A couple of races later, Massa is a nailed on World Champion, and Kimi is a clown. Last week, Alonso was sublime in Monaco. This week, he has a bad race, and all of a sudden he's a gigantic loser. Are people not allowed to have a bad race anymore? What's the bet that Lewis makes a mistake at Indy and goes from hero to zero?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I'm getting tired of the increasingly fickle nature of F1 fans. Following Malaysia, Massa was a clown who wasn't fit to lace Kimi's boots. A couple of races later, Massa is a nailed on World Champion, and Kimi is a clown. Last week, Alonso was sublime in Monaco. This week, he has a bad race, and all of a sudden he's a gigantic loser. Are people not allowed to have a bad race anymore? What's the bet that Lewis makes a mistake at Indy and goes from hero to zero?

:up:

Very true

[Henry Cutts]

Alonso is a great driver, but the last couple of races he seems to have lost his head. he is only 8 pts behind so i would not right him off yet.

[Corny]

I'm getting tired of the increasingly fickle nature of F1 fans. Following Malaysia, Massa was a clown who wasn't fit to lace Kimi's boots. A couple of races later, Massa is a nailed on World Champion, and Kimi is a clown. Last week, Alonso was sublime in Monaco. This week, he has a bad race, and all of a sudden he's a gigantic loser. Are people not allowed to have a bad race anymore? What's the bet that Lewis makes a mistake at Indy and goes from hero to zero?

That's F1, isn't it?

[BeansBeansBeans]

Alonso is a great driver, but the last couple of races he seems to have lost his head.

The last couple of races? He won from pole at Monaco, remember.

[Racehound]

I'm sick of the Alonso bashing and sick of hearing about Hamilton all the damn time! Ya, he's great, but damn! Do we have to talk about him 24/7? No...The season still has a long freaking way to go, for gosh sake! :D Lewis has driven great and had good luck. A few of the other top drivers have made a mistake here or there and maybe had some bad luck... But really, the Alonso bashing is really annoying, he hasn't caused any accidents this year...so shut up!!! ;) im right with ya on this!!!! :)

[leopard]

I'm getting tired of the increasingly fickle nature of F1 fans. Following Malaysia, Massa was a clown who wasn't fit to lace Kimi's boots. A couple of races later, Massa is a nailed on World Champion, and Kimi is a clown. Last week, Alonso was sublime in Monaco. This week, he has a bad race, and all of a sudden he's a gigantic loser. Are people not allowed to have a bad race anymore? What's the bet that Lewis makes a mistake at Indy and goes from hero to zero?
You might not have the strong reason to be fan of a driver or a team.

[XR8]

The Thread Starter "ALONSO'S START ANTICS AND POOR OVERTAKING"
Are you guys for real! F1 has been boring as bat crap and as soon as somone has ago at passing or real racing you guys complain! Alonso and also Webbo were at least having a go and if there attempt failed at least they were trying.If no one races any more in F1 who is gunna watch it - certainly not me!Aussie V8 Supercars is also becoming FOLLOW THE LEADER.
We want to see some real racing , such as my sons AUSSIE RACING CARS race at eastern creek at the weekend. He destroyed a motor so had to start rear of field (grid 38) for the third heat and passed thirty cars in ten laps to finish eighth. Now thats exciting racing!

[Henry Cutts]

The last couple of races? He won from pole at Monaco, remember.

Sorry I meant he has made errors in a couple of races.

[Racehound]

How long can crap be taken from this guy. He screws up the first corner and then barges back into the track like a bully. He almost took out his teammate and Heidfied. He did the same thing at Spain against Massa. Its like just because he is a 2 time WDC he can get away with this...Why didnt the FIA investigage this incident.

Moreover what a foolish move to make when overtaking Trulli. He just thought that Trulli would cave in easily and he can get by on the outside. He messed up that move and also lost out 2 more positions. Poor show by the lucky WDC...


It felt good to see him overtaken by a Super Aguri on merit....And also being beaten by a rookie...I am sure Lewis will kick his ass again in races to come. Hope he will have some good excuses ready...
after all the crap dished out by shoemaker while he was in f1 then FA has quite a few years worth of credit on that score!!!....he went for the lead off the line and got his nose in front again in canada but left his braking too late!!...he went off track and rejoined WITHOUT touching anyone else, so where is the problem there then???......massa in spain was banging into FAs sidepod AFTER Fernando had got to the first apex half a car length in front of him, but instead of leaving FA room to avoid a dangerous situation, massa keeps his foot in to deny FA a safe route to the second apex, thereby FORCING FA to straighten up by steering to the left and having to go off track to avoid a big accident!!!!!....in this incident there WAS contact, and the fia(sco) didnt investigate there, so why would anyone think they should investigate canada when there was NO contact!!!!!.....we moan about the inconsistency of the fia(sco) stewards, and it seems if you were 1 of them youre obvious bias would cloud youre judgement and probably leave all the f1 fans in the world with even more inconsistent and ridiculous decisions!!!!........on the point of gettin his ass kicked by a rookie, this just goes to prove something said many times about driver aids and the plethora of electronic control systems on modern day cars;....you can overdrive a car and let the electronics gather up any small mistakes and keep you on the circuit, but 1 thing they wont do is compensate for braking too late!!!!!....had FA got in front in this race on his slightly heavier fuel load and gone on to control the race, i doubt you would be using the "lucky" euphamism when you mention FA......after all, MS was driving in 05 and 06 and FA beat him to both wdc`s!!!!!!!!!!!..........(a small note here.........im pretty sure when i say this, and that is if Ayrton was still here and driving, then Lewboy would not have finished his first 5 races on the pod if it was giving him any grief!!!!.....a little wheel tap here or there going into a corner and he woulda spun Lewboy round into a gravel trap in a perfect PIT maneuver that would have been classed as a "racing incident"!!!!!!!!!).....so there is a reflection on Fernando Alonsos fairness and sportsmanship in that up until now he has not resorted to any kind of unfair or unsporting tactics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...he uses his ability fairly, and his perfect race is to start from the front and disappear off to the flag with no incidents.....FA has had to overdrive the starts when not on pole, and as we can see had to go too deep in Canada to try and get the lead clearly from his teammate, but in Spain he was half a car length in front, and was forced by massa to go off line!!!!!!!!.........as for taku nailing him on track, well as we have read FA was suffering with shot tyres, but this is not really an excuse as drivers have to understand and manage their own tyres during a race......i dont like to hear any driver moan about tyres when i have to make my 295/60-15s last 10,000 miles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....EACH!!!!!!!!!!

[Racehound]

The Renault was spcially configured with a rearward weight bias last year to improve starts, and Alonso took full advantage of that. This year, the advantage doesn't appear to be there anymore driving a McLaren, and Fernando will have to get used to that. If he takes himself out once more, his chances of winning the WDC this year will be more and more difficult, seeing Lewis has a better record of staying on track to score points.
hey valve.......a perfect car has a weight distribution bias of 50/50.......that is 50 % front and 50 % rear......this enables a car to find its optimum cornering potential by distibuting its complete weight throughout its mass during 100% of the time .......the mass damper fitted to the 26 was the device that gave it a very slight rearward bias due to the fact that the sprung weight inside the mass damper was "floating" while the car was under acceleration loads....which actually took away some of the front end weight while the car was accelerating!!!!......as soon as the car was moving forward or under deceleration, the mass damper had its most significant effect......the strength of the mass damper springs were what caused the very slight rear weight distribution bias during acceleration, but as said this was very nominal...............

[Racehound]

hey valve.......a perfect car has a weight distribution bias of 50/50.......that is 50 % front and 50 % rear......this enables a car to find its optimum cornering potential by distibuting its complete weight throughout its mass during 100% of the time .......the mass damper fitted to the 26 was the device that gave it a very slight rearward bias due to the fact that the sprung weight inside the mass damper was "floating" while the car was under acceleration loads....which actually took away some of the front end weight while the car was accelerating!!!!......as soon as the car was moving forward or under deceleration, the mass damper had its most significant effect......the strength of the mass damper springs were what caused the very slight rear weight distribution bias during acceleration, but as said this was very nominal...............
..........edited extra bit of info.....because the mass damper gave the 26 a rearward weight distribution bias under acceleration, this changed the front wing angle of attack from aggresive to passive!!!!....this is why the fia(sco) demmed it to be a "movable aerodynamic device" and it was subsequently banned!!!!!!!!!!!

[Racehound]

Alonso was a clown in Montreal, no doubt about that. But coming from a Schumacher fan, accusations of Alonso's "bullying" and "dangerous" driving seem a little myopic, given the many times it happened during his career.
thx mallen....myopic means "short sightedness" i believe!!!!.......glad some1 here has a memory!!!! :)

[Big Ben]

He almost took LH and NH out... :laugh: ... that´s dangerous driving... not using your car as a weapon to eliminate the opposition, not parking the car on the track... etc... etc...
Poor overtaking... complaining about a driver´s attempts to overtake is quite an original topic... I enjoyed seeing him trying to gain position on track... that's how champions behave.... IMO
About Sato overtaking FA... I'm sure it happened just because Sato is so good and Alonso so slow and stupid...
and speaking of luck... :laugh:

[Trqster]

Alonso is just cracking under the enormous pressure to beat rookie team-mate Hamilton - that simple!
Hope he gets his act together in the next few races, starts to race Hamilton properly and shows why he's a 2 time WDC.

[ioan]

It is laughable to suggest that Alonso's antics on Sunday are more crazy or less considerate than Schumacher shutting the door on someone at 190mph in Spa in 1995 and 2000.

No it's not, but coming from an Alonso fan it is normal.

Fighting for position at high speed is what F1 is about, going back at slow speed in front of cars that go much faster is however the sign of a careless. And he did it already 2 times in a row.
And I confirm what others said MS never did such stupid moves.

[icsunonove]

No it's not, but coming from an Alonso fan it is normal.

Fighting for position at high speed is what F1 is about, going back at slow speed in front of cars that go much faster is however the sign of a careless. And he did it already 2 times in a row.
And I confirm what others said MS never did such stupid moves.

Oh no?, you forgot about 2006 Hungarian GP then? - you know, the one where he did it twice to er... Heidfeld and then crashed into him?. Not quite the same though, at least Alonso managed not to hit anyone.

[f1rocks]

Alonso was a clown in Montreal, no doubt about that. But coming from a Schumacher fan, accusations of Alonso's "bullying" and "dangerous" driving seem a little myopic, given the many times it happened during his career.

Schumacher is retired and this thread is not about him. We are discussing about the present and future. So just because I am a MS fan does not mean you can keep dragging that as an argument.

Alonso is driving like a maniac trying to bully other drivers to make way for him at the start and other times. He ended up making a fool of himself in Canada and Spian. In my view he should be spoken to by the stewards. He has also brake tested DC and other drivers in the past. At this rate he will cause a very bad crash one of these days...

[f1rocks]

The worrying thing is that it's not the first race where he has gone off and just barged back onto the track in traffic! If he keeps it up, he will take somebody out! Of all the things MS did on the track, I've never seen him pull back on the track after an off without regard to traffic. That is just crazy!

Exactly. Remember Monza 2004 when MS spun. He had to wait till every car went by and then resumed back on track. This is just a cheap attempt by some users to have a dig at MS whenever they can.

Alonso messed up and it is hard for his fans to accept that. Moreover he is getting humbled by a rookie. This is worse than Massa beating Kimi.....

[Big Ben]

Exactly. Remember Monza 2004 when MS spun. He had to wait till every car went by and then resumed back on track. This is just a cheap attempt by some users to have a dig at MS whenever they can.

Alonso messed up and it is hard for his fans to accept that. Moreover he is getting humbled by a rookie. This is worse than Massa beating Kimi.....

But in the end he was helped to get back on the track... while Alonso in a similar situation was left there to rotten... in Germany I think... This is the most stupid claim I ve ever heard... you are trying to prove that FA is a dangerous driver giving MS as an example.... there is some guy here that goes on talking about hypocrisy.... a MS´ fan also... it´s absolutely preposterous...

[Big Ben]

No it's not, but coming from an Alonso fan it is normal.

Fighting for position at high speed is what F1 is about, going back at slow speed in front of cars that go much faster is however the sign of a careless. And he did it already 2 times in a row.
And I confirm what others said MS never did such stupid moves.

Imola 2006.... but I wouldn´t say it´s a stupid move anyway... even if I don´t like your idol... He´s supposed to defend his position... even when his car is slower

[f1rocks]

But in the end he was helped to get back on the track... while Alonso in a similar situation was left there to rotten... in Germany I think... This is the most stupid claim I ve ever heard... you are trying to prove that FA is a dangerous driver giving MS as an example.... there is some guy here that goes on talking about hypocrisy.... a MS´ fan also... it´s absolutely preposterous...


Go read the posts again. It was not me who brought MS into this thread. It is some of the Alonso fan boys or MS haters (like you) who did.

This thread is about Alonso's antics at the start and his poor attempt to overtake..Stick to that with facts if you have them at all....Talk about the present and future because MS is retired. However Alonso's rash driving has potential to cause a major crash one of these days...

[donKey jote]

:dozey:

[Big Ben]

Go read the posts again. It was not me who brought MS into this thread. It is some of the Alonso fan boys or MS haters (like you) who did.

This thread is about Alonso's antics at the start and his poor attempt to overtake..Stick to that with facts if you have them at all....Talk about the present and future because MS is retired. However Alonso's rash driving has potential to cause a major crash one of these days...

The people who defended MS´ most dangerous maneuvers are now trying to prove that FA´s driving style is a danger for the other drivers... that´s what you are doing.... I don´t care if you brought it up or not...

he probably will... he could have.... Your model put another driver in danger deliberately and still... I think you re right comparing MS and FA from this point of view though... It´s just the other way around

[stevie_gerrard]

alonso only realised after the fourth time of going off at the first corner, that he was driving a formula 1 car and not a lawnmower :p :

yeh, so alonso made mistakes, but that was only because he was so desperate to win, and sometimes desperate means craziness. He throwed away the chance to be closer in the title race, but its not the end of the world just yet, he's still in the fight for the title, and knowing what a great driver Alonso is, he will come back brilliantly, and will be there right down to the wire. Whether he wins is a different matter.

i tell you what, if Lewis was in that same situation, he will have pushed the car harder and may have made the same mistakes. Theres gonna be a point where theres a lot expected of him, and the pressure of being WDC and supposedly the best driver will get on top of him, and he will have a bad patch at some point in his career. Doesnt mean he's a poor driver though, he's just like any other driver, he wants to win. Theres gonna be times he loses his cool or rag on the track, but every driver goes through that.

[jso1985]

a guy tries to overtake so in this forum he's a morron
an F1 race is completed without much significant overtaking and in this forum we moan for two weeks

we need a life and to stop complaining about everything :p :

now seriously, he did way too stupid moves, but can't someone have a bad day once in a while?

and if you're telling me that he's an a**hole when it comes to try desperate overtaking moves when things are not going right, then he certainly has the talent of a 7 times WDC ;)

[F1MAN2007]

after all the crap dished out by shoemaker while he was in f1 then FA has quite a few years worth of credit on that score!!!....he went for the lead off the line and got his nose in front again in canada but left his braking too late!!...he went off track and rejoined WITHOUT touching anyone else, so where is the problem there then???......massa in spain was banging into FAs sidepod AFTER Fernando had got to the first apex half a car length in front of him, but instead of leaving FA room to avoid a dangerous situation, massa keeps his foot in to deny FA a safe route to the second apex, thereby FORCING FA to straighten up by steering to the left and having to go off track to avoid a big accident!!!!!....in this incident there WAS contact, and the fia(sco) didnt investigate there, so why would anyone think they should investigate canada when there was NO contact!!!!!.....we moan about the inconsistency of the fia(sco) stewards, and it seems if you were 1 of them youre obvious bias would cloud youre judgement and probably leave all the f1 fans in the world with even more inconsistent and ridiculous decisions!!!!........on the point of gettin his ass kicked by a rookie, this just goes to prove something said many times about driver aids and the plethora of electronic control systems on modern day cars;....you can overdrive a car and let the electronics gather up any small mistakes and keep you on the circuit, but 1 thing they wont do is compensate for braking too late!!!!!....had FA got in front in this race on his slightly heavier fuel load and gone on to control the race, i doubt you would be using the "lucky" euphamism when you mention FA......after all, MS was driving in 05 and 06 and FA beat him to both wdc`s!!!!!!!!!!!..........(a small note here.........im pretty sure when i say this, and that is if Ayrton was still here and driving, then Lewboy would not have finished his first 5 races on the pod if it was giving him any grief!!!!.....a little wheel tap here or there going into a corner and he woulda spun Lewboy round into a gravel trap in a perfect PIT maneuver that would have been classed as a "racing incident"!!!!!!!!!).....so there is a reflection on Fernando Alonsos fairness and sportsmanship in that up until now he has not resorted to any kind of unfair or unsporting tactics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...he uses his ability fairly, and his perfect race is to start from the front and disappear off to the flag with no incidents.....FA has had to overdrive the starts when not on pole, and as we can see had to go too deep in Canada to try and get the lead clearly from his teammate, but in Spain he was half a car length in front, and was forced by massa to go off line!!!!!!!!.........as for taku nailing him on track, well as we have read FA was suffering with shot tyres, but this is not really an excuse as drivers have to understand and manage their own tyres during a race......i dont like to hear any driver moan about tyres when i have to make my 295/60-15s last 10,000 miles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....EACH!!!!!!!!!!

I couldn't say it better. Thank you sir!!! :beer:

[K-Pu]

I can´t understand how drivers are firstly the new WDC because they had a good race and after that they become losers, idiots or something worse.

And one thought about Alonso. Seeing him last GP was like travelling in time, wasn´t it? It was like being in 2004, when Alonso was consistently doing stupid things and didn´t win a single race in the season.

And one last thing: This GP has been quite a bit chaotic race, and even dramatic (Kubica´s crash did make me worry about him), and Alonso´s mistakes made it eve better! You can´t imagine how much I was enjoying seeing him going off the track at turn 1 no less than 4 times! Not because I hate Alonso, just because it was "shocking". You don´t see every race a WDC driving like an idiot for the 1st stint, like a champion on the 2nd and like a sleepwalker on the 3rd.

[Valve Bounce]

I think Fernando learnt his lesson very quickly at Montreal. When he showed a flash of hot blood and tried that desperate move in the first corner, it showed a little lack of calculation.

Later on when Sato came up, Fernando realised that he'd be better off losing just one point than losing 3 points and risk clashing with Sato.

I think that if Fernando thought this through carefully, he could have let Lewis Hamilton lead into the first corner, and taken him later with an undamaged car. Either than or just settle for the loss of two points to Hamilton in this early part of the season.

[Ranger]

So now I'm called an Alonso "fanboy" and an "MS hater".

Some people in this thread already seem to ignore/forget that I already said that:
Alonso was a clown on Sunday

Obviously I need to explain that I used the MS example as a means of demonstrating that more dangerous incidents have not been penalised in the past, and hence I don't see how or why the FIA should investigate yet alone penalise such moves, though Alonso has to kick his head in for sure.

[wmcot]

Obviously I need to explain that I used the MS example as a means of demonstrating that more dangerous incidents have not been penalised in the past, and hence I don't see how or why the FIA should investigate yet alone penalise such moves, though Alonso has to kick his head in for sure.

Whether dangerous moves were penalized in the past or not does not make them acceptable. This has nothing to do with overtaking - overtaking is what we want. What we don't want is for a driver to leave the track, come back on at a slower speed, and take out 3 or more other cars in the process. If ANY driver (not just FA) leaves the track, he MUST wait until it is clear to re-join. FA has just made a habit of blindly popping back on track in the middle of traffic this year (see the start in Spain, also) so that is why this thread is focused on HIM (or should be if the MS haters could ever get over it!)

[ioan]

So now I'm called an Alonso "fanboy" and an "MS hater".

And you mean that you are not? :eek:
It's obvious from your posts, so live with it the same way we all do with our "pro et contra"s.

[ioan]

FA has just made a habit of blindly popping back on track in the middle of traffic this year (see the start in Spain, also) so that is why this thread is focused on HIM (or should be if the MS haters could ever get over it!)

This sums the thread up pretty well. :up:

[Ranger]

And you mean that you are not? :eek:
It's obvious from your posts, so live with it the same way we all do with our "pro et contra"s.

I shouldn't have to explain this, but I will.

No, I'm no MS hater and I can't say I dislike him. Belgium 1995 and 2000 were both great displays of racing, although pretty damn dangerous, given the relevant conditions MS was driving in and nowhere have I stated that they weren't. Nowhere have I heaped praise on Alonso in this thread as he was quite appaling on Sunday.

My first post in this thread questioned the opinions of someone on this forum who was remarkably pro-MS as accusations of MS's dirty or dangerous driving were quite common and noted throughout his career. Now theres nothing wrong with questioning somebody's reasoning on this forum, as you, Ioan, so it quite a lot yourself. Whenever I see a questionable argument about any driver on this forum, then I will question it. The fact that I am being lumped into a supposedly large group of anonymous detractors ain't exactly well reasoned.

Fanboy seems like a questionable thing to call a fan, first of all - may as well call a fan a fan and save yourself three letters. I like a lot of F1 drivers (Alonso included) as I don't really believe that I should be bothering to dislike someone who I don't know, unlike a few people in this thread who "wish for Alonso to have his ass kicked". When I feel something needs to be said about or in defense of a driver on this forum, then I'll say it, no questions asked.

I've got nothing more to add to this thread, I've said everything that needs to be said.

[ArrowsFA1]

Now that's been said...back to the topic.

[Big Ben]

Whether dangerous moves were penalized in the past or not does not make them acceptable. This has nothing to do with overtaking - overtaking is what we want. What we don't want is for a driver to leave the track, come back on at a slower speed, and take out 3 or more other cars in the process. If ANY driver (not just FA) leaves the track, he MUST wait until it is clear to re-join. FA has just made a habit of blindly popping back on track in the middle of traffic this year (see the start in Spain, also) so that is why this thread is focused on HIM (or should be if the MS haters could ever get over it!)

like this?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM
I believe that any action FIA takes should be based on rules and when something was correct last year, by the same rules it should stay correct this year too... I think it goes for you too... if you didn´t complain before... don´t complain now either...

I really don´t understand what you are saying. That he should have waited on the grass for all the cars to pass? :laugh: and in spain what was he supposed to do? keep on driving outside the track for a while... waiting for the other 21 cars to go... :laugh:

[wmcot]

like this?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM
I believe that any action FIA takes should be based on rules and when something was correct last year, by the same rules it should stay correct this year too... I think it goes for you too... if you didn´t complain before... don´t complain now either...

I really don´t understand what you are saying. That he should have waited on the grass for all the cars to pass? :laugh: and in spain what was he supposed to do? keep on driving outside the track for a while... waiting for the other 21 cars to go... :laugh:

Point 1 - so you think F1 should still be run by the rules it originally started out with? Then we can get rid of seatbelts, helmets, fireproof clothing, etc. That was once correct so it shouldn't have been changed according to your logic! In reality, rules change ALL THE TIME to improve safety. Maybe they should have changed the rules in the past, but they REALLY need to look into them now.

Point 2 - Here's a simple example for you - you are on a highway with a 60mph (100kph) speed limit. You pull off to the shoulder of the road and stop (maybe your kid has to throw up or something.) Do you then just start accelerating and pull into the flow of traffic or use your mirrors and re-enter at a safe gap?

I doubt the laughing smilies would be in your post if FA had taken himself, LH and NH out in the first corner! All I'm suggesting is that somebody needs to warn FA. I don't care if it is the FIA, Ron Dennis, or his mother! Throwing a car back onto the track in traffic is dangerous! Or can you still not see that?

[ioan]

like this?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM

I suppose you would have preferred him stay on track and barge into PDLR who was giving him half a meter on the track? What a magnificent example to illustrate your point! :rolleyes:

[Big Ben]

I suppose you would have preferred him stay on track and barge into PDLR who was giving him half a meter on the track? What a magnificent example to illustrate your point! :rolleyes:

No... I'd have preferred him to stay on track behind PDLR :rolleyes:

[Big Ben]

Point 1 - so you think F1 should still be run by the rules it originally started out with? Then we can get rid of seatbelts, helmets, fireproof clothing, etc. That was once correct so it shouldn't have been changed according to your logic! In reality, rules change ALL THE TIME to improve safety. Maybe they should have changed the rules in the past, but they REALLY need to look into them now.

Point 2 - Here's a simple example for you - you are on a highway with a 60mph (100kph) speed limit. You pull off to the shoulder of the road and stop (maybe your kid has to throw up or something.) Do you then just start accelerating and pull into the flow of traffic or use your mirrors and re-enter at a safe gap?

I doubt the laughing smilies would be in your post if FA had taken himself, LH and NH out in the first corner! All I'm suggesting is that somebody needs to warn FA. I don't care if it is the FIA, Ron Dennis, or his mother! Throwing a car back onto the track in traffic is dangerous! Or can you still not see that?

to point 1: the idea is that if the rules we have today didn't apply in my example than they certainly shouldn't apply in this one

to point 2: it's irrelevant

FA didn't take anybody out... and he was the only one to lose from his mistakes.... I'm pretty sure RD is not going to tell FA: "next time when you go off track stay there and wait for all the cars to pass"

[ioan]

No... I'd have preferred him to stay on track behind PDLR :rolleyes:

Than you don't like racing.

[Racehound]

I shouldn't have to explain this, but I will.

No, I'm no MS hater and I can't say I dislike him. Belgium 1995 and 2000 were both great displays of racing, although pretty damn dangerous, given the relevant conditions MS was driving in and nowhere have I stated that they weren't. Nowhere have I heaped praise on Alonso in this thread as he was quite appaling on Sunday.

My first post in this thread questioned the opinions of someone on this forum who was remarkably pro-MS as accusations of MS's dirty or dangerous driving were quite common and noted throughout his career. Now theres nothing wrong with questioning somebody's reasoning on this forum, as you, Ioan, so it quite a lot yourself. Whenever I see a questionable argument about any driver on this forum, then I will question it. The fact that I am being lumped into a supposedly large group of anonymous detractors ain't exactly well reasoned.

Fanboy seems like a questionable thing to call a fan, first of all - may as well call a fan a fan and save yourself three letters. I like a lot of F1 drivers (Alonso included) as I don't really believe that I should be bothering to dislike someone who I don't know, unlike a few people in this thread who "wish for Alonso to have his ass kicked". When I feel something needs to be said about or in defense of a driver on this forum, then I'll say it, no questions asked.

I've got nothing more to add to this thread, I've said everything that needs to be said.
cool Mallen.......well said!!!!! :)

[Racehound]

Poor show by the lucky TWO time WDC ..you should have said ;)

Yes he overcooked it into T1 on plenty of occasions but he never gave up..thats what I like about the guy, he never gives up! He kept on passing people (poor overtaking yeah right).

Inspite of having to make pit-stops just when SC was deployed and a 10 sec stop n go he did race well enough to earn 2 pts.

Yes Hamilton did beat him so well done to him but Fernando will be mad about this and fight hard to stay on top.
well said Storm.. :) ....even tho Fernando was barged off track by massa in Spain ,fernando was still prepared to have a go at gettin control of the race in Canada.........he asked the stewards to review their decision not to investigate the "massagate", and they decided there and then not to do so!!!!!.....so now he has a teammate who is "living his dream",and a governing body who feel that wheel banging or car contact is acceptable, yet some here conclude that FA is dangerous but massa was not!!!!!...im finding some opinions here incredulous in their stupidity and bias!!!!!....i take it these are young people not really very familiar with the nuances of racing as they have never raced on a track, so maybe stupidity is too strong a word, and could be substituted for just a simple lack of knowledge......and anybody who thinks Fernando Alonso is prepared to throw his legs or his life away by being T-Boned by another car just has to be on some kind of serious medication!!!!!!!!!!!.....these people are having to judge situations and racing lines to within 100ths of a second, as the incident with pdlr and ms shows,( the video is on another thread and i dont know how to add videos to my posts as i use my pc mostly for gaming)......when tricky went over the kerbs and grass and rejoined millimetres in front of pdlr , and tricky already knowing that all he would have to do at worst was to give up the position to pedro as soon as he got the word from toady after a quick consultation with his friends in the fia(sco)!!!!...yet tricky micky did not get investigated over that !!!!..although he was villified by most of the other drivers at the next gpda meeting over his unsporting and blatant disregard of the rules!!!......Lewboy as we can all see now has landed his backside in his first season in the best car on the track bar none...hes come in as gp2 champion to a team he is very familiar with and where he feels at home.........hes made a big statement about if he is ordered to defer to his teammate then he will be off to race for another team!!!!....he has incurred Ron Dennis`s wrath with his "face like a smacked arse" antics on the podium at monaco, and stating he is the number "2" driver in the team, which led directly to the farcical team orders inquiry by mad max et al........(..and then after 9 years of sponsorship RD sends witmarsh up to the podium to celebrate lewboyz first win?????!!!!that i found particularly strange!!!!what is RD saying with that ???......could it be some political weight shifting inside the McL camp taking place????).......Fernando knows what he has to do, and he knows now that the time for balls out first corner overtaking attempts might not find him in a favourable position, either on track or with us "armchair critics", or with the press, so i think he already has his options planned as to what his strategy should be......i already said elsewhere that if Ayrton was still here and racing then trust me on this...lewboy would not have been on the podium for 5 out of 5 races!!!!and i dont mean Ayrton was a dirty driver or anything like that, its just that the best know how to take even the slightest advantage of any given situation;........there is so many variables to discuss as far as motor racing is concerned, and writing it and trying to be concise and to the point can sometimes be very long winded and even difficult.....and ive run out of time to say what i want....so later peeps!!!!

[Racehound]

Than you don't like racing.
good point about "dont like racing", but could you imagine the pounding he would have got if hed collected pedro on his return to the circuit?????!!! and caused a serious accident???

[Racehound]

He almost took LH and NH out... :laugh: ... that´s dangerous driving... not using your car as a weapon to eliminate the opposition, not parking the car on the track... etc... etc...
Poor overtaking... complaining about a driver´s attempts to overtake is quite an original topic... I enjoyed seeing him trying to gain position on track... that's how champions behave.... IMO
About Sato overtaking FA... I'm sure it happened just because Sato is so good and Alonso so slow and stupid...
and speaking of luck... :laugh:
i like this post but im still confused!!!....and i read all your posts eu!!! :dozey:

[Racehound]

No... I'd have preferred him to stay on track behind PDLR :rolleyes:
.........a bit like massa should have done in Spain ya mean???

[ioan]

.........a bit like massa should have done in Spain ya mean???

That has been discussed in another thread and the outcome was that Massa did nothing wrong. Check it out.

[Flat.tyres]

[font=Verdana]well said Storm..file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Knock-on/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif....even tho Fernando was barged off track by massa in Spain ,fernando was still prepared to have a go at gettin control of the race in Canada.........he asked the stewards to review their decision not to investigate the "massagate", and they decided there and then not to do so!!!!!.....so now he has a teammate who is "living his dream",and a governing body who feel that wheel banging or car contact is acceptable, yet some here conclude that FA is dangerous but massa was not!!!!!..

im finding some opinions here incredulous in their stupidity and bias!!!!!....i take it these are young people not really very familiar with the nuances of racing as they have never raced on a track, so maybe stupidity is too strong a word, and could be substituted for just a simple lack of knowledge......and anybody who thinks Fernando Alonso is prepared to throw his legs or his life away by being T-Boned by another car just has to be on some kind of serious medication!!!!!!!!!!!....

.these people are having to judge situations and racing lines to within 100ths of a second, as the incident with pdlr and ms shows,( the video is on another thread and i dont know how to add videos to my posts as i use my pc mostly for gaming)......when tricky went over the kerbs and grass and rejoined millimetres in front of pdlr , and tricky already knowing that all he would have to do at worst was to give up the position to pedro as soon as he got the word from toady after a quick consultation with his friends in the fia(sco)!!!!...yet tricky micky did not get investigated over that !!!!..although he was villified by most of the other drivers at the next gpda meeting over his unsporting and blatant disregard of the rules!!!......

Lewboy as we can all see now has landed his backside in his first season in the best car on the track bar none...hes come in as gp2 champion to a team he is very familiar with and where he feels at home.........hes made a big statement about if he is ordered to defer to his teammate then he will be off to race for another team!!!!...

he has incurred Ron Dennis`s wrath with his "face like a smacked arse" antics on the podium at monaco, and stating he is the number "2" driver in the team, which led directly to the farcical team orders inquiry by mad max et al........(..and then after 9 years of sponsorship RD sends witmarsh up to the podium to celebrate lewboyz first win?????!!!!that i found particularly strange!!!!what is RD saying with that ???......could it be some political weight shifting inside the McL camp taking place????).......

Fernando knows what he has to do, and he knows now that the time for balls out first corner overtaking attempts might not find him in a favourable position, either on track or with us "armchair critics", or with the press, so i think he already has his options planned as to what his strategy should be......

i already said elsewhere that if Ayrton was still here and racing then trust me on this...lewboy would not have been on the podium for 5 out of 5 races!!!!and i dont mean Ayrton was a dirty driver or anything like that, its just that the best know how to take even the slightest advantage of any given situation;........there is so many variables to discuss as far as motor racing is concerned, and writing it and trying to be concise and to the point can sometimes be very long winded and even difficult.....and ive run out of time to say what i want....so later peeps!!!!


sorry for splitting your post up Hound but i struggle reading your posts when it's not split up and start to feel dizzy about 1/4 way into it.

a lot of what you say makes sense at the beginning but after that, you loose a grasp on the facts a bit.

ok, Alonso and his driving first. with todays f1, getting into the first corner in the lead hugely increases your chance of winning the race unless your light. alonso is gambleing a bit too much to try and achieve this and paying the price. he's been quite fortunate that he hasnt collected anyone coming back on but thats life. I imagine that he will be reminded to try and ensure that if he goes off course, to try and rejoin safely as he's been lucky twice now. but, these are racers and it's not a huge issue at the moment. seen much worse.

so, the Alonso and Massa coming together next. again, this was just a racing incident and I really cant see any blame one way or the other. Freddy squeezed and Fil drifted. 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. it certainly wasnt Massas fault any more that Alonsos so the stewards got it spot on.

with the MS / PdlR incident, MS clearly maintained his position by cutting the corner. end of story and should have conceded the place.

as for the rest of it about McLaren, Lewis, RD and Senna, its like the Sunday Sport meets spin :D pure conjecture mostly

[Firstgear]

he's been quite fortunate that he hasnt collected anyone coming back on but thats life.


I think people are underestimating Alonso's ability when they say he's been fortunate or lucky not to have had an incident coming back on track.

A couple of examples from other sports:

A professional baseball player can hit a 100mph fastball (he's got approx. .3 sec from the time the ball leaves the pitchers hand to the time the ball crosses the plate) because he's got the skill & reaction time required. Most of us wouldn't even see the ball go by, let alone be able to swing in time to hit it.

When a rally driver goes thru corner after corner sideways and stays between the ditches on either side, it's because he's got the skill & reaction time required. Most of us would roll it into the ditch, or not have the balls to even try.

So if we (Joe armchair/forum athlete) hit a fastball or get around a curve sideways safely - it's most likey becasue we're lucky because the odds of us doing it successfully are way against us.

When Alonso (or any other F1 driver) gets back on track safely, it's because he knows what's around him and has the ability and reflexes to get it done.

[Flat.tyres]

I think people are underestimating Alonso's ability when they say he's been fortunate or lucky not to have had an incident coming back on track.

A couple of examples from other sports:

A professional baseball player can hit a 100mph fastball (he's got approx. .3 sec from the time the ball leaves the pitchers hand to the time the ball crosses the plate) because he's got the skill & reaction time required. Most of us wouldn't even see the ball go by, let alone be able to swing in time to hit it.

When a rally driver goes thru corner after corner sideways and stays between the ditches on either side, it's because he's got the skill & reaction time required. Most of us would roll it into the ditch, or not have the balls to even try.

So if we (Joe armchair/forum athlete) hit a fastball or get around a curve sideways safely - it's most likey becasue we're lucky because the odds of us doing it successfully are way against us.

When Alonso (or any other F1 driver) gets back on track safely, it's because he knows what's around him and has the ability and reflexes to get it done.

I know what you're saying but he was off, on and across the path of other competitors so quick he had no chance of avoiding anyone the way he did.

:)

[Big Ben]

.........a bit like massa should have done in Spain ya mean???

No

[truefan72]

I think people are underestimating Alonso's ability when they say he's been fortunate or lucky not to have had an incident coming back on track.

A couple of examples from other sports:

A professional baseball player can hit a 100mph fastball (he's got approx. .3 sec from the time the ball leaves the pitchers hand to the time the ball crosses the plate) because he's got the skill & reaction time required. Most of us wouldn't even see the ball go by, let alone be able to swing in time to hit it.

When a rally driver goes thru corner after corner sideways and stays between the ditches on either side, it's because he's got the skill & reaction time required. Most of us would roll it into the ditch, or not have the balls to even try.

So if we (Joe armchair/forum athlete) hit a fastball or get around a curve sideways safely - it's most likey becasue we're lucky because the odds of us doing it successfully are way against us.

When Alonso (or any other F1 driver) gets back on track safely, it's because he knows what's around him and has the ability and reflexes to get it done.

that's true to a point.
There are other huge variables to factor in rendering that point slightly mute.
1. Alonso cannot figure out what the other drivers would/wouldn't do
2. Alonso cannot factor in what may be on the grass or off track affecting his tyres and underbody
3. Alonso doesn't practice or train for these scenarios, so his reactions are based more on luck and some small skill, rather than learned experience and superior driver ability.

that's what makes his actions dangerous

[Firstgear]

3. Alonso doesn't practice or train for these scenarios, so his reactions are based more on luck and some small skill, rather than learned experience and superior driver ability.


Well, he was off four times on Sunday......so maybe he WAS practicing.

On a little more serious note: Even if he doesn't have total ability to judge what's around him and adjust accordingly while on the grass, the drivers that were behind him on the track and are now along side of him when he re-enters should have the ability to avoid him. They can see him going off, and can anticipate where/when he will come back on track.

He's done it twice this season without incident. Maybe those weren't very smart/calculated moves, but I don't think they were as dangerous as some here are suggesting.

[Easy Drifter]

The amount of control you have on grass, especially wet grass as it was in Mtl. is minimal. You cannot stop in the space given. You cannot make any sort of major steering correction, it just won't turn. I do not think in the 1st lap incident he had any real choice but to go where he did. Some of the other offs maybe but the field was strung out then.
At those speeds wet grass is akin to driving on black ice. The car is going where it wants to go not where you want it to go.

[Firstgear]

Ok, so Alonso is slip-sliding along because he has no control on the grass. This means he would have to be going in a pretty strait line. The other drivers who are on pavement approaching him have control, and know exactly where he'll be in a few moments time because he has no choice but to continue strait-on in the grass. Knowing this, it should be easy for them to take evasive action.

[wmcot]

to point 1: the idea is that if the rules we have today didn't apply in my example than they certainly shouldn't apply in this one

to point 2: it's irrelevant

FA didn't take anybody out... and he was the only one to lose from his mistakes.... I'm pretty sure RD is not going to tell FA: "next time when you go off track stay there and wait for all the cars to pass"

RE point 1 - I'm talking about CHANGING the rules, not penalizing FA for the past.

RE point 2 - Maybe irrelevant to you, bit it was a simplified example of the use of common sense.

As for "FA didn't take anybody out..." I would only add the word "YET" Give him a chance if he keeps up this bad habit of his. He WILL take somebody out and THEN you can try to defend him!

[Racehound]

That has been discussed in another thread and the outcome was that Massa did nothing wrong. Check it out.
i know what the outcome was and i didnt agree with it then, and i dont agree with it now!!! :)

[xtlm]

The Race on Sunday (that I saw yesterday) was great!

So much stuff went on, it was extremely entertaining.

Loved it that champs were making errors and the little guys were strong.

I wish every race was a variant of this <_<

[Valve Bounce]

This type of desperate maneuvres at the start of F1 races has been going on for decades. I don't see how it will suddenly change. In fact, if you look down the grid, it gets worse the further down the grid after the starts.