Croft Thread....

[Rusty]

Now ive finally managed to get online had problems getting forum to load this morning but nevermind Croft is upon us and FP1 has already taken place but i missed final times so if anyone can help then Great.....

live timing link..... http://www.sportsync.net/sportsyncaccesspages/LiveTimingTOCA.html

Now i cant post this thread as the forum wont refresh at all any ideas???

[Ian McC]

Yep, it's been bust! :s

[VkmSpouge]

Well done to Colin Turkington for taking BMW's first win in the BTCC since 1996. The BMWs seemed to be going very well at Croft. Some pretty good action in all three races. I think Jason Hughes did very well for the first half of the third race. Chris Stockton had be going great in the second race but then had an off (they never showed what happened, did he spin or was he pushed?), that Lexus does look a handy machine. I really feel sorry for Tom Chilton retiring in the second race a couple of laps before the end, he looked absolutely gutted on the onboard camera.

[nicemms]

I feel sorry for Turkington, being taken out rather unfairly by Plato in race 2 but a great win in race 1. I always knew he could take the lead in race 2 with the rear wheel drive.

Giovanardi did well in race 3,passed onslow cole superbly and then was just away!

[Steelrat]

Well done to Colin Turkington for taking BMW's first win in the BTCC since 1996.

Unfortunately, I only saw the highlights, but ..... I was a little annoyed with TO-C when he came back out. Does anyone think he was following orders, instead of moving over when he should have?


I really feel sorry for Tom Chilton retiring in the second race a couple of laps before the end, he looked absolutely gutted on the onboard camera.

Me too. It definitely was an "aaw" moment when they showed it. And with the commentary saying "and he missed Le Mans because of this race weekend ...." I really felt for him.

P

[AlexD]

I found myself cheering Stockton on. the Lexus seems a rapid machine now. If they can just get those those last few problems sorted he'll be winning I'm sure. Well done to RAC and VX as well. The Alfas looked interesting, yet another new colour scheme then!

Of course there was the usual bits with Seat being the pantomime-esque baddies, what a big suprise.

[BDunnell]

I'm surprised that Plato wasn't penalised for the 'move' on Turkington in the second race. I thought it looked a bit rough. On the more positive side, Stockton's pace was a surprise, and Mike Jordan looks even more competitive than he did last year.

[tdb]

I found myself cheering Stockton on. the Lexus seems a rapid machine now.

Just goes to show all the doubters that the Lexus does have potential.

[nicemms]

I'm surprised that Plato wasn't penalised for the 'move' on Turkington in the second race. I thought it looked a bit rough.

I thought it was a bit rough too, he went full on into the side of turkington, and ended his race and as a result giovanardi's could have been ended but it all worked in his favour. So I think Plato should have been penalised too.

[AlexD]

Reason why he wasn't penalised?

Anyone else: Avoidable accident, penalty.

Plato: 'blah blah...Oh well, that's classic Plato'

[nicemms]

Its true though. Just lucky it wasn't neal and plato because then there would've been some heated arguments!

[MBailey06]

I'm still a bit unsure what happened to Stockton in the second race. It looked to me like he was hit by Tom Onslow-Cole at the Jim Clark Esses but I could be wrong. Anyway, he certainly seems near the pace and he could be a regular top 12 finisher by the end of the season.

[SEATFreak]

Just got back about half an hour ago and I can honestly say, aside from a mild touch of sunburn to my forearms, I have seen the best meeting since 2001!!!

Was very impressed with the showing in Mike Jordan. He was my star of the day. Several did well (like Mat Jackson in Race 3) but Mike I think was one of the best overall. And I am happy with my beloved outfits points haul. The one-two in Race 2 was the highlight.

Speaking of which when Darren allowed Jase to pass for the lead in Race 2, the lady to my right said "No!" and the man to my left who had not one but two stopwatches round his neck who felt the need to shout instructions to every driver that passed said "Swizz!" and "Fix!" - I of course would have been made to pass on the chance to proudly clap!

Great meeting. Cannot wait for 2008. I hope all those who said Croft wasn't a good venue in the "Croft - is it worth the trip" thread in Track Talk are choking on their dinners!

[reidy_fan]

SF, the racing at croft has never been questioned it is always good it is the spectator facilities that are crap.

back to the racing, thought plato was a bit out of order in his contact but overall the children played nicely :-) Mike Jordan put in a great shift and proved that the integra is still on the pace

oh and a win and 2nd place for Jonathan Adam in the SCC but this is getting to be the norm, long may it continue :champion: :champion: :beer: :beer: :beer:

[A Scotsman]

Personally thought some of the manouvres particularly after the hairpin were well out of order.. The clerk of the course must have had his eyes shut.. More like a bunch of amateur club drivers than supposedly seasoned pros.. Not impressed with Neil in particular but Plato and a few others should get a severe wrist smacking..

[speedy king]

I think you'll find club racing is a lot cleaner! It's like any racing series, national is ment to have the best talent but often it can be the dirtiest as they have a lot more money....


Good entertainment and racing today :)

[Iain]

I'd like to retract a statement I made last week at one point when I said Mr Plato was driving with his brain this year........

[tdb]

I beg to differ, Mr Plato seemed to be very much using his brain this weekend!

All the moves appeared to be very calculated.

[cos]

Just goes to show all the doubters that the Lexus does have potential.

IMHO Stockton has looked impressive in that Lexus since his debut at Brands last year. All they need is a bit more reliability and a decent driver in the 2nd car to regular top-10 scorers...

[VkmSpouge]

I'm just thinking, Turkington was following someone else quite closely coming into the Hairpin before being rammed by Plato. Is there a possibility that there was a concertina effect, with Turkington being forced to maybe brake slightly earlier which caught Plato by surprise and left him with no time to react?

[cazvxr]

Chris got hit from Onslow-Cole but made a fantastic recovery.He raced Fantastically well in race 2.We were screaming like mad for him from the pits.He was grinning like a Cheshire cat when he came in.

[SEATFreak]

I beg to differ, Mr Plato seemed to be very much using his brain this weekend!

All the moves appeared to be very calculated.

Just to confirm something first of all, the top 8 was reversed for race 3 which would have put Jason Hughes on pole, wasn't it?

I agree about your point. At the last minute he seemed to relent and allow Darren to take the race 2 win. I sensed at the time that the team felt either that the fans and spectators alike that weren't dressed in yellow and grey would have not liked it if Jase had carried on to win and allowed Darren to win, or that they realised the honourable thing was to let Darren win.

[CroftPilgrim]

At the last minute he seemed to relent and allow Darren to take the race 2 win. I sensed at the time that the team felt either that the fans and spectators alike that weren't dressed in yellow and grey would have not liked it if Jase had carried on to win and allowed Darren to win, or that they realised the honourable thing was to let Darren win.

You obviously weren't listening to the circuit pa SEATfreak. DT allowed Plato to pass so he could get a point for leading the race. Plato then let DT pass him at the end so that Darren could get the win he deserved and had earned on merit. Team decision - maximising their points haul as a team.

To be frank, I'm getting tired of all this driver bashing. I suspect that if most of us on this forum were drivers (I know some are so it would be interesting to get their opinon) we might have different views on these incidents. And anyway no assertive tactics and drivers not taking every opportunity means boring boring racing...

[ATF]

You obviously weren't listening to the circuit pa SEATfreak. DT allowed Plato to pass so he could get a point for leading the race. Plato then let DT pass him at the end so that Darren could get the win he deserved and had earned on merit. Team decision - maximising their points haul as a team.

To be frank, I'm getting tired of all this driver bashing. I suspect that if most of us on this forum were drivers (I know some are so it would be interesting to get their opinon) we might have different views on these incidents. And anyway no assertive tactics and drivers not taking every opportunity means boring boring racing...


I don´t think people have a problem with what SEAT did, it´s just the way that JP pulled over...on the last lap!! Team Halfords did the same thing at Knockhill last year but you only need to lead across the line once, why did JP wait so long? Like Ted Kravitz said, is that really how you want to take your first win?!

[BeeJ_UK]

What amazes me is that when Thommo moved over for Plato at OP last year TV said that that is BTCC, team orders have always been there, this year when the person that moved over is then given the place back the TV are crying fowl.

[Dave B]

Just to confirm something first of all, the top 8 was reversed for race 3 which would have put Jason Hughes on pole, wasn't it?
Top 9. John George was on pole. I thought you were there? :p

[SEATFreak]

You obviously weren't listening to the circuit pa SEATfreak.

You obviously had a better PA speaker or were a hell of a lot closer to one that I was. You should have worked out quickly I was in a place where listening to it was bad.

I was right at the top of the banking on the exit of Hawthorn and into going Chicane, far away from the nearest speaker that wasn't that good to begin with which at times had the sound of about 20 cars whizzing past just behind.

What is more important seeing the action or hearing about the action over the PA?


I don´t think people have a problem with what SEAT did, it´s just the way that JP pulled over...on the last lap!! Team Halfords did the same thing at Knockhill last year but you only need to lead across the line once, why did JP wait so long? Like Ted Kravitz said, is that really how you want to take your first win?!

I will try to tape the ITV1 highlights but I completely agree about the move. As a SEAT fan I didn't mind because they are my team but I can see where everyone is coming from. All of a sudden I saw Jase slow down and allow Darren to win. Which I think would have been better than Darren allowing Jase to pass for the lead and go on to win.

[SEATFreak]

Top 9. John George was on pole.

Thanks :up:

[Nick The Flick]

In my opinion, best piece of car control of the day was Urket's save through the gravel in the first race. he did well to hang onto that one.

[AlexD]

Hughes did well to hold on to a good position for so long in that relic of an MG. If he had a faster car he might well have won the race. Oh, and George really should get those replacement bumpers resprayed ASAP. It looks terrible!
How many times did Marsh crash?

[BeansBeansBeans]

So what was the Clerk of the Course's view of the Plato / Turkington incident? I must admit, I thought Plato was at fault, but he appears to have received no penalty. Perhaps the telemetry showed that Turkington breaked unusually late, as someone suggested.

[wedge]

Just to confirm something first of all, the top 8 was reversed for race 3 which would have put Jason Hughes on pole, wasn't it?

I agree about your point. At the last minute he seemed to relent and allow Darren to take the race 2 win. I sensed at the time that the team felt either that the fans and spectators alike that weren't dressed in yellow and grey would have not liked it if Jase had carried on to win and allowed Darren to win, or that they realised the honourable thing was to let Darren win.

Kinda reminds me of when Senna and Mansell giving their wins away at Suzuka to their team-mates.

I sure JP was contemplating on whether to do the right thing or take maximum points. Glad JP chose the former, else I wouldn't have bothered with BTCC again.

I remember Vauxhall used team orders excessively during a dark period in Super Touring days and Derek Warwick justifying it because Ferrari were doing it in F1.

Shouldn't really be seeing that sort of thing at this stage of the season.

[Iain]

Just listened to Plato's audio interview on btcc.net and he seemed very cheesed off that Turner passed him in race three and "hung me out to dry". He said he won't be helping Turner anymore after that. Maybe he needs that pram of toys back that SEAT gave to Team Dynamics a couple of years back. ;) :p :

[Eunos]

Plato's really going to regret that Move at the end of the season if he ends up losing by a few Points to Giovanardi :D

[AlexD]

Well, I'm going to give Plato the benefit of the doubt as he did explain why he hit Turkington. However, it certainly wasn't the 'tap' he described it as, if you saw the amount of damage done to the cars. I don't understand why he got annoyed at Turner, becuase it was obvious that Turner was faster again in that race. Yet more boo-hoo...

[nik]

How many times did Marsh crash?

Expect it as the norm now. Still 0 points.
Is it still to early to judge him as rubbish and out of his depth?

He's been in the series since 2003 now, on and off, and rookies like Blanckley, Kerry and Pocklington are kicking his ass.

[BDunnell]

The way things are going, none of the Alfas are really going to have a glorious season.

[AlexD]

He's been in the series since 2003 now, on and off.

More 'off' than on. He's really being shown up by everyone, and now Thommo has proved that car can be very, very quick in the right hands. But I bet Pinkney regrets getting rid of the Integra now, espically seeing how well Mike Jordan is still doing.

[BDunnell]

More 'off' than on. He's really being shown up by everyone, and now Thommo has proved that car can be very, very quick in the right hands. But I bet Pinkney regrets getting rid of the Integra now, espically seeing how well Mike Jordan is still doing.

I'd imagine that wasn't really his choice, given that the Integra was a Motorbase car. But you're right — it would certainly be a far better proposition.

[VkmSpouge]

The way things are going, none of the Alfas are really going to have a glorious season.

They all seem rather unreliable or be getting into too many scrapes. I feel sorry for all three Alfa drivers. I'm sure there will be a point for A-Tech that'll turn their season around with Marsh and Pinkney starting to improve. Eoin Murray really just needs some luck to go his way.

[GRAVETT]

i dont have too much of a problem with the team orders issue, its a team sport and the had that race in the bag so why should'nt they engineer the finish to gain a drivers first ( well earned ) win and a point for their championship contender ( have i just defended seat and plato arrghh yes indeedmi have, i feel dirty )
team orders never go down well in motorsport because too much empahasis is put on the drivers championship and people forget the team/manufacturers championship is just as important, look at monaco, the uproar caused by mclaren controlling the result was rediculous. they had the race won from the start, why allow thier drivers to race and risk puttin them both in the wall.
the btcc is the same, its a team and drivers championship so seat did nothing wrong in that race in my view

[CroftPilgrim]

In my opinion, best piece of car control of the day was Urket's save through the gravel in the first race. he did well to hang onto that one.

After which he then promptly collided with David Pinkney, sending the Pinkmeister off into the infield and taking both of them out in the process!

A lesson on how to go from hero to zero!

[BDunnell]

Eoin Murray really just needs some luck to go his way.

I think what Eoin Murray needs is more money and, maybe, more experience in the team. They seem to be having real trouble getting that car to run reliably.

[nicemms]

Its a shame that he isn't getting the results because I think he has great potential and could do well.

[VkmSpouge]

I think what Eoin Murray needs is more money and, maybe, more experience in the team. They seem to be having real trouble getting that car to run reliably.

Quest Racing have been running the car for nearly a year, they should have plenty of experience with it by now. I do agree they need more money. If Murray can get a weekend clear of any mishaps then I reckon he'll put in some very good performances.

[BDunnell]

Quest Racing have been running the car for nearly a year, they should have plenty of experience with it by now. I do agree they need more money.

I feel I ought to clarify that my comment about more experience maybe being necessary wasn't intended as a slight towards them.

[Dan Eaves Fan]

So who was it that knocked the tyres in to the chicane that Leggate hit and ended her race??

I couldnt see from where i was standing i just saw her car front caved in as she pulled off the circuit in front of me? The speakers got drowned out as well by engine noise so i didnt hear a thing??

What did people make of the little bonfire we had in the infield during the Formula BMW race? I cant remember who it was but he had a glue sponsor??
In the 9 years ive been going to Croft ive never seen that happen.

[cos]

So who was it that knocked the tyres in to the chicane that Leggate hit and ended her race??


T'was John George:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IltQtTQyw0

[mattie007]

Really happy with Jason Hughes performance this weekend. 23rd to 8th i race 2 and holding off the big boys for a good number of laps in race 3. Shows he and the MG can battle when everything is going well.
Really like the new Alfa colour scheme, just a shame its so unreliable.
Some great racing, but SEAT and Plato have gone down even furthur in my estimation.

[SEATFreak]

i dont have too much of a problem with the team orders issue, its a team sport and the had that race in the bag so why should'nt they engineer the finish to gain a drivers first ( well earned ) win and a point for their championship contender ( have i just defended seat and plato arrghh yes indeedmi have, i feel dirty )
team orders never go down well in motorsport because too much empahasis is put on the drivers championship and people forget the team/manufacturers championship is just as important, look at monaco, the uproar caused by mclaren controlling the result was rediculous. they had the race won from the start, why allow thier drivers to race and risk puttin them both in the wall.
the btcc is the same, its a team and drivers championship so seat did nothing wrong in that race in my view

Quite a long winded comment but I agree completely.

I was dissapointed when Jase missed out on the Drivers Championship last year but it was made up by my beloved outfit's Manufacturers Championship - even though they didn't win the Teams Championship. Because it was the object that ended a wait.

On another note I find it hypocritical that if a team forgets team orders and asks their drivers to try for the win and ends up taking each other out the people who are against team orders would probably say they were being reckless and should have stuck to team orders.

My opinion on the whole is whatever suits a team best on a race-by-race basis. And I would like to think Scott thought a win would benifit Darren more because it would put him further up the Drivers Championship and with Jase ahead of Fab a win would only serve to increase his lead. As for the Teams and Manufacturers Championship, with SEAT trailling in both, I like to think it was more important to just get a 1-2.

[KILOHMUNNS]

On another note I find it hypocritical that if a team forgets team orders and asks their drivers to try for the win and ends up taking each other out the people who are against team orders would probably say they were being reckless and should have stuck to team orders.

My opinion on the whole is whatever suits a team best on a race-by-race basis. And I would like to think Scott thought a win would benifit Darren more because it would put him further up the Drivers Championship and with Jase ahead of Fab a win would only serve to increase his lead. As for the Teams and Manufacturers Championship, with SEAT trailling in both, I like to think it was more important to just get a 1-2.

I totally agree. Darren deserved the win and would have won the race in his own merit antway if Jason hadn't been behind him. Darren did the right thing letting Jason past for the extra point and Jason did the right thing letting Darren pass him for the win. Remember 1992 when Rouse took himself and Hoy out, that in real terms lost Hoy the championship that year!

[BDunnell]

I totally agree. Darren deserved the win and would have won the race in his own merit antway if Jason hadn't been behind him. Darren did the right thing letting Jason past for the extra point and Jason did the right thing letting Darren pass him for the win. Remember 1992 when Rouse took himself and Hoy out, that in real terms lost Hoy the championship that year!

There were several other instances of Rouse not assisting Hoy that year — and the fact that Tim Harvey pushed Hoy off in the final race didn't help! But you're right — it shows what can happen when drivers don't co-operate. What Turner did to Plato in the third race isn't an example of that in my book.

[KILOHMUNNS]

There were several other instances of Rouse not assisting Hoy that year — and the fact that Tim Harvey pushed Hoy off in the final race didn't help! But you're right — it shows what can happen when drivers don't co-operate. What Turner did to Plato in the third race isn't an example of that in my book.

Unfortunately I didn't see what happened in the 3rd race as my DVD player decided it didn't like the disc I put it and didn't record the majority of the race!!!

[BeansBeansBeans]

There were several other instances of Rouse not assisting Hoy that year — and the fact that Tim Harvey pushed Hoy off in the final race didn't help! But you're right — it shows what can happen when drivers don't co-operate. What Turner did to Plato in the third race isn't an example of that in my book.

On the subject of unhelpful team-mates - Who could forget Julian Bailey flipping Hoy onto his roof whilst they were leading 1-2 for Toyota?

[BDunnell]

Unfortunately I didn't see what happened in the 3rd race as my DVD player decided it didn't like the disc I put it and didn't record the majority of the race!!!

I think it's covered somewhere further up the thread. Plato reckons Turner hung him out to dry. I thought what happened to push Plato down the order looked unavoidable.

[BDunnell]

On the subject of unhelpful team-mates - Who could forget Julian Bailey flipping Hoy onto his roof whilst they were leading 1-2 for Toyota?

They went on to see the funny side, though!

[SEATFreak]

I wasn't around for any of the examples mentioned but what about the since?

Like the relationship between Jase and Yvan in 2001 at Vauxhall Motorsport where I was around? Unless I am mistaken their relationship is supposedly one of the fireiest between teammates. If so I think it unlikely Yvan and Jase would have taken kindly to being asked to make way for the other.

Would Mat Neal with his nature have taken kindly to being asked to make way for Dan Eaves? Mind with the boss being who he is in mind I find it unlikely that would have ever happened. But what if?

I think the point is it proves unhelpful teammates has happened everywhere over the years. And I guess the final point is, for Darren and Jase to have helped each other with no argument from anywhere they could be applauded.

[SEATFreak]

I think it's covered somewhere further up the thread. Plato reckons Turner hung him out to dry.

I have never really understood that term. What does "hung out to dry" mean?

[Dan Eaves Fan]

T'was John George:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IltQtTQyw0

Hey thanks for that mate what havoc! Classic BTCC!!

[BT 96]

Unfortunately, I only saw the highlights, but ..... I was a little annoyed with TO-C when he came back out. Does anyone think he was following orders, instead of moving over when he should have?



Me too. It definitely was an "aaw" moment when they showed it. And with the commentary saying "and he missed Le Mans because of this race weekend ...." I really felt for him.

P

So was I with TOC in race 2

[MBailey06]

I agree, his move on Stockton was pretty stupid, from what I could see he made no attempt for a manouvre and just clipped him and spun him round. Still got a point though.