Ferrari from now on?

[mstillhere]

Well it looks like the race in Monaco perfectly reflected the Le Castellet tests results, where McLaren performed better then Ferrari, on the Monaco configuration of the track. Now are Ferrari and other teams going to do better than the silver arrows in Canada as shown by the tests at Le Castellet, when it was in the Montreal configuration?
True, as somebody mentioned else where, that Lewis is looking for his spot in the sun but so is KR (big time) and if anybody has to show his worth, that would be Kimi not Hamilton. And are we about to enter the Ferrari phase, as we saw last year with MS, where we'll see Ferrari shining on the North American tracks, traditionally Ferrari's tracks (as Montecarlo is for McLaren)? How true is going to be what we saw last year? One thing is puzzling me though, and that's not knowing what role would play the new more powerfull Mercedes unit (+20 hp?) used in Montecarlo and allready on its way to Montreal. I hope for Macca (not really), that the new engine is going to give them more edge over ferrari in terms of speed and reliability. Because it is from here that Ferrari is planning to start their VENDETTA!

[Valve Bounce]

Well it looks like the race in Monaco perfectly reflected the Le Castellet tests results, where McLaren performed better then Ferrari, on the Monaco configuration of the track. Now are Ferrari and other teams going to do better than the silver arrows in Canada as shown by the tests at Le Castellet, when it was in the Montreal configuration?
True, as somebody mentioned else where, that Lewis is looking for his spot in the sun but so is KR (big time) and if anybody has to show his worth, that would be Kimi not Hamilton. And are we about to enter the Ferrari phase, as we saw last year with MS, where we'll see Ferrari shining on the North American tracks, traditionally Ferrari's tracks (as Montecarlo is for McLaren)? How true is going to be what we saw last year? One thing is puzzling me though, and that's not knowing what role would play the new more powerfull Mercedes unit (+20 hp?) used in Montecarlo and allready on its way to Montreal. I hope for Macca (not really), that the new engine is going to give them more edge over ferrari in terms of speed and reliability. Because it is from here that Ferrari is planning to start their VENDETTA!

You're absolutely right. :up:

[leopard]

... Because it is from here that Ferrari is planning to start their VENDETTA!
As long as Ferrari (whichever qualifying best) didn't let the two McLarens passing them by at the start.

Once the two McLarens made one and two start, game over, the whole race will be under their control. But if Massa or Kimi can maintain the pole position, or at worst to be in between of two McLarens, Ferrari still has that opportunity.

[Valve Bounce]

In some of the other tracks where overtaking is possible, then the front row in quals may not be the determining factor; but if both cars from one team are on the front row and manage to be ahead after the first corner, then that team will be hard to beat.

[leopard]

yeah the key is the first corner, I doubt there will be overtaking between this two top liners (in normal condition) after the race running for some laps.

[555-04Q2]

Traditionally the Macs are quickest at Monaco. Ferrari should be the faster car come the next race. Time will tell though.

[ArrowsFA1]

This is turning into a great season. Just when you think Ferrari & Kimi have the upperhand (Australia) McLaren & Alonso bounce back (Malaysia), swiftly followed by Massa taking control (Bahrain & Spain) then McLaren hit back (Monaco).

Who knows who will have the advantage in Canada :crazy: :s mokin:

[Racehound]

Well it looks like the race in Monaco perfectly reflected the Le Castellet tests results, where McLaren performed better then Ferrari, on the Monaco configuration of the track. Now are Ferrari and other teams going to do better than the silver arrows in Canada as shown by the tests at Le Castellet, when it was in the Montreal configuration?
True, as somebody mentioned else where, that Lewis is looking for his spot in the sun but so is KR (big time) and if anybody has to show his worth, that would be Kimi not Hamilton. And are we about to enter the Ferrari phase, as we saw last year with MS, where we'll see Ferrari shining on the North American tracks, traditionally Ferrari's tracks (as Montecarlo is for McLaren)? How true is going to be what we saw last year? One thing is puzzling me though, and that's not knowing what role would play the new more powerfull Mercedes unit (+20 hp?) used in Montecarlo and allready on its way to Montreal. I hope for Macca (not really), that the new engine is going to give them more edge over ferrari in terms of speed and reliability. Because it is from here that Ferrari is planning to start their VENDETTA!
for the higher speed tracks the extra h/p is what McL have been lacking,,,if the new unit gives 20+h/p then its about bloody time mercedes got their hands outta their pants and start giving McL the force to compete at top revs!!!!!!.....the 22 looks to be giving soooo much grip but the h/p has been sadly lacking.....once their matched for speed thn McL should dominate me thinx........you cheered me up with that little snippet tho :)

[aryan]

On normal traks (Not Monaco) I would say Ferrari is faster than McLaren. Ferrari has shown however not be very good at following a car, so it will be critical for them to get and maintain pole position. However McLaren has shown to have better starts and Ferrari is not as good in qualifying trim as it is over long runs, so keeping that pole position till the end of first lap is not going to be an easy job for Ferrari.

I would say Ferrari is still the favourite for the championship, as they have a faster car. But it may all just come down to strategy, and if McLaren can snap a couple of more wins and keep their reliability, then Ferrari will have a very hard job of closing down on McLaren in the Championship.

[F1MAN2007]

As long as Ferrari (whichever qualifying best) didn't let the two McLarens passing them by at the start.

Once the two McLarens made one and two start, game over, the whole race will be under their control. But if Massa or Kimi can maintain the pole position, or at worst to be in between of two McLarens, Ferrari still has that opportunity.


You are right sir.

[F1MAN2007]

The Reliability is the key factor this time and this is the thing Ferrari is missing since the start of the season. Otherwise Ferrari seems quicker than Mac but if Mc with the new engine has gained some little power, then Ferrari has to work hard.

The truth is that whoever (Kimmi, Massa, Alonso or Lewis) will win a pole position in every race, will be always the first in the first corner and would do whatever to stay ahead after the first corner. After that, only by mistake or poor strategiy, otherwise I can't see how he gonna loose the race.

The first line now is one of the most key important for everyone who want to be constant and stay in the bid of the Championship.

[ioan]

Where does a 20HP gain come from when there is an engine development freeze, and only reliability mods are allowed (and Mercedes had no such problems this season)???

[CaptainRaiden]

Where does a 20HP gain come from when there is an engine development freeze, and only reliability mods are allowed (and Mercedes had no such problems this season)???

You know, i was wondering the same thing while going through the previous posts. How can Mercedes develop the engine now since the freeze was imposed from the start of the season, and if i'm not wrong, goes up till 2008??? It's just not possible. This is nothing but a mere rumour, a very amusing one i must say. :p

However, the Mclaren looks to have improved aerodynamically, which might just help them in Canada.

[Racehound]

Where does a 20HP gain come from when there is an engine development freeze, and only reliability mods are allowed (and Mercedes had no such problems this season)???
the freeze on engine development is in the materials used and the design of the 07 engine block and cylinder heads.........all the ancillaries can be updated or modified, and tweaking the engines thru ecu re-mapping is allowed...not fogetting of course that even atmospheric conditions and ambient temperature can make as much as 15-20 h/p difference alone!!!....next time its foggy and cold take your car for a drive and you can see the performance gain yourself....or add a water injection system and see the difference that makes :)

[mstillhere]

Where does a 20HP gain come from when there is an engine development freeze, and only reliability mods are allowed (and Mercedes had no such problems this season)???

Excellent point. I actually got this info from the Spanish web site as.com:

http://www.as.com/articulo/motor/decimas/motor/Alonso/dasmotB00/20070530dasdaimot_3/Tes/

Here follows part of the article in question:

"Esa es la ventaja que el asturiano disfrutará en Montreal del propulsor evolución que estrenó en Mónaco. Proporciona unos veinte caballos más que el de Barcelona."

The jist of it is that FA will be using in Montreal the same engine that he used in Montecarlo, which is an evolucion of the engine (some 20 hp more) that he used in Barcelona.

I am surprised myself, wondering what is the origin of this info since I could not find anywhere else and also, what happened to the frozen engine rule. I am puzzled.

[Robinho]

FIA in rule that doesn't really work shocker!!

;)

[donKey jote]

The rest of the article would be quite interesting if it were true, but the AS does tend to be a bit biassed :p :

[ioan]

the freeze on engine development is in the materials used and the design of the 07 engine block and cylinder heads.........all the ancillaries can be updated or modified, and tweaking the engines thru ecu re-mapping is allowed...not fogetting of course that even atmospheric conditions and ambient temperature can make as much as 15-20 h/p difference alone!!!....next time its foggy and cold take your car for a drive and you can see the performance gain yourself....or add a water injection system and see the difference that makes :)

I pretty much doubt that 20 HP can be gained outside of the engine block and the cylinders.
And given that Mercedes were unable to build a strong engine untill when the FIA imposed the 19000 rpm cap, I doubt that they all of a sudden built an engine with 20HP more power.

X-ecutioner they had to homologate the engines before last seasons last race and I think it is for at least 3 years the freeze on engine development.

[janneppi]

Wasn't it talked last year that Mercedes brought out a rather "raw" version of it's engine before the freeze took place, now they have refined it to be better.
20hp i'm not so sure, but some developement is quite possible.

[ioan]

And I thought that changes were only to improve reliability and not the performance, as the freeze was brought in to reduce engine development costs.

If it's true that they made changes to the engine to improve the power output by 20HP than it's against the rules. But given that the FIA took no action against their new front wing or against their publicly stated team orders, I don't expect anything against their engine either.

[aryan]

And I thought that changes were only to improve reliability and not the performance, as the freeze was brought in to reduce engine development costs.

If it's true that they made changes to the engine to improve the power output by 20HP than it's against the rules. But given that the FIA took no action against their new front wing or against their publicly stated team orders, I don't expect anything against their engine either.

It is not againts the rules ioan. The rules specifically allow a certain degree of fine-tuning, they forbid using new material.

Any car tuner worth his *** can tell you that getting 20 bhp by just remapping the ECU is a piece of cake.

[ioan]

It is not againts the rules ioan. The rules specifically allow a certain degree of fine-tuning, they forbid using new material.

Any car tuner worth his *** can tell you that getting 20 bhp by just remapping the ECU is a piece of cake.

If you replace an ordinary ECU maybe, or you think that Mercedes were using some $hit ECU and now bought one from a car tuner?! :D

[Slartibartfast]

If Ferrari don't dominate the next two races they will be in trouble for the rest of the season.
This should be their peak period as I think McLaren are the stronger "team" and will develop faster than Ferrari from now on.

[aryan]

If you replace an ordinary ECU maybe, or you think that Mercedes were using some $hit ECU and now bought one from a car tuner?! :D

No need to dramatise here. It's not like we are talking about a huge increase; for an engine which produces around 700-800 bhp, 20 bhp is like what? 2.5%? I'm sure you can improve any engine by 2.5% by changing some internal workings and ECU and etc. after months of studying and observing it's actual use.

If this story is true (and I don't have any idea on the source's credibility) then Mercedes is only doing it's job, exploiting the rules to provide maximum performance; other engine manufacturers should do the same.

[ioan]

No need to dramatise here. It's not like we are talking about a huge increase; for an engine which produces around 700-800 bhp, 20 bhp is like what? 2.5%? I'm sure you can improve any engine by 2.5% by changing some internal workings and ECU and etc. after months of studying and observing it's actual use.

If this story is true (and I don't have any idea on the source's credibility) then Mercedes is only doing it's job, exploiting the rules to provide maximum performance; other engine manufacturers should do the same.

Honestly I doubt that the story is true.
On a side note 2.5% at this level of competitiveness is a lot.

[Valve Bounce]

If you replace an ordinary ECU maybe, or you think that Mercedes were using some $hit ECU and now bought one from a car tuner?! :D


They could have pinched one from the second hand Hondas :p :