I Wonder Why .... ????

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I wonder why ...

if the Indianapolis 500 doesn't matter anymore, why the winner, Dario Franchitti, is on, is scheduled to be on, or has been on every major talk show both sports oriented and non-sports oriented ?

I wonder why...

if the Indianapolis 500 doesn't matter anymore, why USA Today, had almost a full section devoted to all matters Indianapolis 500 related?

I wonder why...

if the Indianapolis 500 doesn't matter anymore, why Dario Franchitti received the largest single event payout of any motor racing event this year?

I wonder why...

if the Indianapolis 500 doesn't matter anymore, why the vast majority of a crowd estimated to be well over 250,000 weathered a 3 hour rain delay and was there to see the rain soaked conclusion of this year's 500 ?

I wonder why...

if the Indianapolis 500 doesn't matter anymore, every major newspaper in Chicago devoted full page articles on the 500 and 500 related matters every day over the Memorial Day Holiday and well into Tuesday?

I wonder why...

if the Indianapolis 500 doesn't matter anymore, why people I work with who have no interest in racing, knew who the winner was on Tuesday morning? (Monday being a day off)

I wonder why...

I love the Indianapolis 500 so much ? I guess you just had to be there. I was.

[huxleypiguk]

The Indy 500 does matter, matters to a lot of people including me.

However the IRL matters to few, including me.

There is a difference.

If only TG and the three amigos could get it all together, then the rest might matter as well.

[Peter Olivola]

Your semantic strawman has been shredded by the winds of reality. The argument isn't that Indy doesn't matter. The argument is that Indy matters less than it once did. That reality makes your post the thing that doesn't matter and your need to justify your own interests through the approval of others an indication that your "faith" is not so secure.


I wonder why ...

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Your semantic strawman has been shredded by the winds of reality. The argument isn't that Indy doesn't matter. The argument is that Indy matters less than it once did. That reality makes your post the thing that doesn't matter and your need to justify your own interests through the approval of others an indication that your "faith" is not so secure.

Thanks for the humorous post. I am simply defending what I love, from negative bitter, hate and angst filled poo pooers that fill this world of motorsports. Thank you have a nice day.

[Okeefe]

That reality makes your post the thing that doesn't matter and your need to justify your own interests through the approval of others an indication that your "faith" is not so secure.

Imagine that, from my view here it looked as though it was just a person posting on an IndyCar forum about the Indy 500.

So, then, according to your own logic professed above, your need to justify your own interests through the approval of others by your attempted condescension of others should be also seen as an indication that your "faith" in what you say is also likewise and alas "not so secure".

I enjoyed reading what this race still is for a change instead of reading continually about the past in some foolish blame game that really doesn't matter a lick today anyway - what's done is done. I enjoyed it that is, until you showed up and piped off because apparently you can't accept the fact that even while mattering less, this race sure as heck matters a whole lot more than many other races in today's present times. There's a different direction of the same winds of reality for you.

[Colsanders]

All the things in your post are generally true. However, the "estimated' crowd of over 250,000 may be optimistic now. There were many, many empty seats; something unheard of in past years.

The race DOES matter...this is why the 500 AND Indycar racing in general, must be "fixed" so the best drivers, manufacturers, sponsors, and turned off fans will return.

[Okeefe]

All the things in your post are generally true. However, the "estimated' crowd of over 250,000 may be optimistic now. There were many, many empty seats; something unheard of in past years.

The race DOES matter...this is why the 500 AND Indycar racing in general, must be "fixed" so the best drivers, manufacturers, sponsors, and turned off fans will return.


Ah, rain dances. Good.

[Peter Olivola]

Defending from whom? As I said, you have misrepresented the criticism. That's called creating a strawman. It would seem you have to invent something to criticize. If you are really a fan of the track/race, why the need to cast your "support" in the form of invented criticism.


Thanks for the humorous post. I am simply defending what I love, from negative bitter, hate and angst filled poo pooers that fill this world of motorsports. Thank you have a nice day.

[Peter Olivola]

I don't attempt condescension. I over achieve it. Especially when it's deserved.


Imagine that, from my view here it looked as though it was just a person posting on an IndyCar forum about the Indy 500.

So, then, according to your own logic professed above, your need to justify your own interests through the approval of others by your attempted condescension of others should be also seen as an indication that your "faith" in what you say is also likewise and alas "not so secure".

I enjoyed reading what this race still is for a change instead of reading continually about the past in some foolish blame game that really doesn't matter a lick today anyway - what's done is done. I enjoyed it that is, until you showed up and piped off because apparently you can't accept the fact that even while mattering less, this race sure as heck matters a whole lot more than many other races in today's present times. There's a different direction of the same winds of reality for you.

[indycool]

In some peoples' eyes, it matters less. In other peoples' eyes, it matters more. Had some people staying with me who came to Indy for the first time. From the way they talked, they won't miss again. And they never had heard of the split, but they'd heard about the Indianapolis 500. Regardless of this or that empty seat, this or that RM complaint about what Indy should do, this or that complaint about Bump Day or anyone else tudging their l'il pudgits about their personal little beefs, ChiCrew has it right: The world's biggest sports crowd watched the world's oldest and most prestigious auto race at the world's largest seating facility....again.

[Jonesi]

snip...I wonder why ...
if the Indianapolis 500 doesn't matter anymore, why USA Today, had almost a full section devoted to all matters Indianapolis 500 related?

I wonder why...
if the Indianapolis 500 doesn't matter anymore, why Dario Franchitti received the largest single event payout of any motor racing event this year?

A couple of things: If you are refering to USA Today's Friday "Speed Weekend" section, maybe it should be mentioned that the ENTIRE front page cover story was about Sam Hornish wanting to go to Nascar!

On the payout, you're maybe right, well....probably not.
While it's correct that DF's $1.64mil for winning Indy 500 is greater than KH's $1.51mil for Daytona 500, about a $130k difference. That total includes about $300k in designated awards, which includes his money for starting on the front row, laps led and probably laps (167-200) unled. So yes he won more, and if HC or TK had won they would have received more, but if the majority of the field had won they wouldn't have topped the Daytona payout for first.
However it's kind of a moot point if we consider Formula One's likely payout, rumored to be in the +$15mil range. With only 24 drivers and a stronger emphasis on winning, most likely payout for winning any F1 race, is in the $2-3mil range.

[Okeefe]

I don't attempt condescension. I over achieve it. Especially when it's deserved.

Not a very flattering self-defined attribute in my opinion. By that statement, you wouldn't be looking to........

Originally Posted by Peter Olivola
justify your own interests through the approval of others an indication that your "faith" is not so secure.

....now, would you?

"For every pleasure in pride’s events to pamper vanity; fate has a way of allowing shame to follow it by three" is what Elders tell me. For what it's worth, you "over achieved" nothing except your own ridicule; and your condescension of the initial poster was not deserved from what I experienced. I enjoyed reading it.

[Okeefe]

I wonder why ...

if the Indianapolis 500 doesn't matter anymore, why the winner, Dario Franchitti, is on, is scheduled to be on, or has been on every major talk show both sports oriented and non-sports oriented ? ........

I wonder why...

I love the Indianapolis 500 so much ? I guess you just had to be there. I was.

Thanks for posting this, I found it kinda like trivia, and I enjoyed reading it.

[Peter Olivola]

I don't practice self flattery. Unlike some hearabouts, and I don't have to justify anything. The fishing expedition represented by the original post is self evident. As to faith, faith in what? Faith in P.T. Barnum's dictum that no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people? I don't have to justify that. It's proven right here every day.


Not a very flattering self-defined attribute in my opinion. By that statement, you wouldn't be looking to........

Originally Posted by Peter Olivola
justify your own interests through the approval of others an indication that your "faith" is not so secure.

....now, would you?

"For every pleasure in pride’s events to pamper vanity; fate has a way of allowing shame to follow it by three" is what Elders tell me. For what it's worth, you "over achieved" nothing except your own ridicule; and your condescension of the initial poster was not deserved from what I experienced. I enjoyed reading it.

[keysersoze]

So it took Peter four whole posts before he offers up his anti-American sentiment!

[Okeefe]

I don't practice self flattery. Unlike some hearabouts, and I don't have to justify anything. The fishing expedition represented by the original post is self evident. As to faith, faith in what? Faith in P.T. Barnum's dictum that no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people? I don't have to justify that. It's proven right here every day.

You know, the "faith" that you told a poster:
"That reality makes your post the thing that doesn't matter and your need to justify your own interests through the approval of others an indication that your "faith" is not so secure".

Peter -- according to your own logic, your "faith" in yourself, demonstrated by your repeated use of the word "I" and in your own self-approval and self-promotion, is not so secure.

The subject matter is the initial post about the Indy 500 on an Indy 500 thread, by an IRL fan -- not how much you admire yourself.

[CCFanatic]

I wonder why ...

if the Indianapolis 500 doesn't matter anymore, why the winner, Dario Franchitti, is on, is scheduled to be on, or has been on every major talk show both sports oriented and non-sports oriented ?Because most late night talk shows are with car fanatics who to keep on TG's goodside put him on.

I wonder why...

if the Indianapolis 500 doesn't matter anymore, why USA Today, had almost a full section devoted to all matters Indianapolis 500 related? I read on USA Today's website that they proclaimedthe winner as Ashley judd's husband.

I wonder why...

if the Indianapolis 500 doesn't matter anymore, why Dario Franchitti received the largest single event payout of any motor racing event this year?Because of TG's rather large pocketbook. To bring in new and more cars, he offered a bigger purse.

I wonder why...

if the Indianapolis 500 doesn't matter anymore, why the vast majority of a crowd estimated to be well over 250,000 weathered a 3 hour rain delay and was there to see the rain soaked conclusion of this year's 500 ?Would you leave a race halfway though if you paid $90 a ticket? I surely would not.

I wonder why...

if the Indianapolis 500 doesn't matter anymore, every major newspaper in Chicago devoted full page articles on the 500 and 500 related matters every day over the Memorial Day Holiday and well into Tuesday?Guess that was just Chicago, because my local paper, Grand Rapids Press, just did one article by the AP near the back of the sports page.

I wonder why...

if the Indianapolis 500 doesn't matter anymore, why people I work with who have no interest in racing, knew who the winner was on Tuesday morning? (Monday being a day off)A little thing called SPORTSCENTER! Everyman in America watches that before going off to work/ school.

I wonder why...

I love the Indianapolis 500 so much ? I guess you just had to be there. I was.I did not go and glad I did not, because from what I heard abnd say the race was not that great of a race.

I will stop commenting now as to not recieve any warnings from the mods.

[weeflyonthewall]

The Indy 500 does matter, matters to a lot of people including me.

However the IRL matters to few, including me.

There is a difference.

If only TG and the three amigos could get it all together, then the rest might matter as well.

May's almost over. Let's see what happens the remainder of the season.

[Peter Olivola]

You practice this baloney for a living? How's that working out for you?


You know, the "faith" that you told a poster:
"That reality makes your post the thing that doesn't matter and your need to justify your own interests through the approval of others an indication that your "faith" is not so secure".

Peter -- according to your own logic, your "faith" in yourself, demonstrated by your repeated use of the word "I" and in your own self-approval and self-promotion, is not so secure.

The subject matter is the initial post about the Indy 500 on an Indy 500 thread, by an IRL fan -- not how much you admire yourself.

[Peter Olivola]

What anti-American sentiment? I quoted P.T. Barnum. Was he wrong?


So it took Peter four whole posts before he offers up his anti-American sentiment!

[Champcar4life]

The 500 does matter and it will always matter, but as far as the IRL goes too me, its just another series. I remember when I was a kid waiting for the 500. come on late at night and my dad letting me watch it as long as I didn't tell my mother. The first 500 I every saw was the 1982 races, even after the split I still watch the 500, but outside of the 500 and maybe a few of other IRL races I don't follow the IRL, every one wants to win the 500, no matter what they say.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

The 500 does matter and it will always matter... every one wants to win the 500, no matter what they say.

I think Dario Franchitti put it best; he realized his accomplishment when he took a look at the Borg Warner Trophy and saw the company he now was with. The names and the faces on that trophy make every subsequent winner of the 500 legendary. (Even if you're Eddie Cheever <ACK>)

I just received my copy of the Autocourse History of the Indianapolis 500 and to me, this book is just about one of the most fascinating publications to come out in a long time. It really makes me appreciate what the 500 is and its significance to automotive technology and competition.

[Okeefe]

You practice this baloney for a living? How's that working out for you?

I don't work at the Indy500 - which is the thread topic - but I enjoy good racing and reading about racing, thanks.

[Peter Olivola]

Then you don't need to invent strawmen to justify your interest, or try to justify others when they do.


I don't work at the Indy500 - which is the thread topic - but I enjoy good racing and reading about racing, thanks.

[Okeefe]

Then you don't need to invent strawmen to justify your interest, or try to justify others when they do.


Did it ever dawn on you that that poster wanted to write about a race that that person likes, on a board set up for that purpose? Whether or not that race matters - or to what degree -- was the topic and he/she wrote creatively and well about it.

I think the race still matters. It's world-wide attention, something to look forward to each year to watch, sponsors seem to get some bang for their buck from it. I'm sorry if that or any truth that might be found in any other opinions hurt you into imagining some delusional strawmen foes.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I have no clue where this Olive oil guy gets the idea that I personally have INVENTED negativity and bias against the 500 in order to understand my post. It's very real. I guess he/she doesn't read these forums very much.

I guess he/she needs to prove his/her intellectual prowess by asserting logical fallacies when there are none except in his/her own mind.

[Peter Olivola]

Touting your favorite series against a strawman is a form of propaganda best understood as utilized in Europe in the middle of the 20th century.

It was a decent race. Better than some Indy 500's. The Indy 500 is still an important race. It is not, however, the dominant Memorial Day weekend event it once was. That doesn't make me happy. I'd like to see it back to where it once was, but claiming it is on the basis of a strawman argument does nothing to get it there.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Touting your favorite series against a strawman is a form of propaganda best understood as utilized in Europe in the middle of the 20th century.



uuuuuuhmmmmm ok..... alrighty then ....

[Cass]

I watched the race, with the sound off! Scotty Goodyear is a putz and Canada should send him seriously North, farther than Nunavut, so Nunofus have to listen to him anymore.

You can say what you want, the field was seriously overwhelmed and undertalented...I have boobs, can I race next year with Milky Donuts too? I found myself wondering why is the race relevant today? In years gone by 500 miles was a stretch to reach with reliability and fitness - not today at all, the motors can run easily at full throttle for at least 1000 - 1200 miles, CCWS go 1200-1400 I think, Atlantics can push 1200 - so technology took care of that part of the 500 for me - wondering can the car make it?

Drivers get out of the car and alot appear to have no sweat on them, physically so fit, the race doesn't tire them. Remember the old days, drivers would stumble getting out of the car.......

Make the I500 the I750 and see if the cars can go the distance then - see if the drivers can too? Roth, Giebler, Duno et al have no right or purpose to be there imo - I would rather see 21 qualified people rather than 33 for some tradition keeping.....tradition is what people rely on when they are too scared to try / do something different!

To sum it up, won't watch the "festival" next year........possibly, now that summer in the PNW is here, won't watch another race as I have to get outside instead!

[-Helix-]

Yet NASCAR still matters more.

What does that tell you.

Only people who are oblivious to what the race once was and what it COULD be are happy with it.

[Bob Riebe]

[quote="-Helix-"]Yet NASCAR still matters more.

What does that tell you.QUOTE]
It bought its own network.

It still ranks second behind the Indianapolis 500.