2025 Race 22 - Las Vegas

[F1nKS]

Norris championship to lose. His confidence is high.

It will be interesting to see how Ferrari Elkann comments on attacking his drivers' play out over the next week and the rest of the season. If I were Leclerc, I would be seeking an alternative landing spot. If the Ferrari car were actually good, then Leclerc and Hamilton would be fighting for a world championship. Hamilton hasn't forgotten what it takes to win a championship.

[Nitrodaze]

Back to the PIG, this race is make or break for Oscar. It is a weak track for McLaren, hence most expect Mercedes to shine once more. All eyes are on Ferrari this weekend. How the team operates this weekend will give a clearer indication of the stability of the team post-Elkann rant.

Antonelli has been on a high recently. Not sure what has been going on with Russell these last few races. So these two are also of interest. Can Russell bounce back, or is Antonelli on a roll?

[Nitrodaze]

Back to the PIG, this race is make-or-break for Oscar. It is a weak track for McLaren, hence most people expect Mercedes to shine once more. This is as good an opportunity as can be for Oscar to close the gap if he can.

All eyes are on Ferrari this weekend. How the team operates this weekend will give a clearer indication of the stability of the team post-Elkann rant.

Antonelli has been on a high recently. Not sure what has been going on with Russell these last few races. So these two are also of interest. Can Russell bounce back, or is Antonelli on a roll?

[Nitrodaze]

Back to the PIG, this race is make-or-break for Oscar. It is a weak track for McLaren, hence most people expect Mercedes to shine once more. This is as good an opportunity as can be for Oscar to close the gap if he can.

All eyes are on Ferrari this weekend. How the team operates this weekend will give a clearer indication of the stability of the team post-Elkann rant.

I am quietly rooting for Verstappen. I hope the pesky dutchman ruffles the orange feathers on Sunday.

Antonelli has been on a high recently. Not sure what has been going on with Russell these last few races. So these two are also of interest. Can Russell bounce back, or is Antonelli on a roll?

[Nitrodaze]

The website is being weird again

[Used to be Starter]

The website is being weird again

Mark hasn't been really maintaining it for a long time now. We're lucky he still keeps it up.

[Nitrodaze]

What are Ferrari's chances this weekend?

[airshifter]

Well, last year both Ferrari's was pretty solid in Vegas and the years before Leclerc was on the podium as well, so I'd say it's down to which teams get it all right for the race. Ferrari seem to like the track for whatever reasons, even if they hasn't managed to get on the top couple of steps in the first couple of races at Vegas.

With the cars seeming to have narrower setup windows these days, it's really hard to say who will get things right. In cool weather the Merc's can come alive, but with two years of data now the other teams might claw some of that back.

Either way, in a few hours we will get the first indications of who has it figured out.

[Matthew]

I am hoping to see Max and Piastri finish 1 2 in the race to make the WDC fight even more interesting.

[F1nKS]

Chaos Rains - rain in Qualifying.

Out in Q1
Hamilton
Yuki
Albon
Antonneli
Bor

[F1nKS]

1. Norris
2. Max
3. Sainz

Came down to who was out last. Piastri at 5

[Nitrodaze]

1. Norris
2. Max
3. Sainz

Came down to who was out last. Piastri at 5

I am not surprised Piastri was 5th. He did not look comfortable in that McLaren. What about Hamilton dead last for Ferrari with LeClerc only 9th. All is not well in the Scarlet team. They are set to be woeful in 2026. All the poker faces in the media pen has turned out to be a bluff. Sainz would be laughing his head off after that one.

I doubt they will be able to retain Leclerc next season; there is a very good chance that Hamilton will exit as well. I see Sainz and Piastri at Ferrari in 2027 with Vasseur also gone. I also don't see Ferrari winning a race in 2026 as well.

[airshifter]

Fairly crazy session.

With the first time I can remember the full wets being of any use, both Q1 and Q2 were dominated by the wet tire. And times just kept tumbling more and more as the session went on, especially after the rain stopped. Though it isn't a short track, it seemed like the cars kept struggling to find gaps to full a good lap without any distractions, and it showed.

As for Hamilton, the yellows on his last full lap and the start/finish lights screwed him of any chance. Adami was telling him to keep pushing to get another lap, but Lewis saw the overhead start/finish lights change from green to red as he approached them and backed off, even though he made it over the line in time to get another lap. By the time the error was realized he had lost too much time to make up. He was looking a bit scrappy and had taken out a corner bollard, but might have made it if he had stayed in it over the line and got another lap in.


I thought the move to inters for Q3 would be more risky than it was, but everyone made the call. It was still a bit dicey through the session,

It might be interesting to see how the race plays out. Being that qualification was in the wet, and a dry race predicted, the cars in the front might not be the best setup for dry running. Being that Vegas does give passing opportunities, there is a chance of some cars moving through the pack. And that mega straight is danger if anyone is in DRS range unless there are huge setup differences in the cars. I would think that Lando would be smart to just let Max go if he gets aggressive in the early stages, and just concentrate on where Oscar is. Right now Lando has everything to lose and Max has very little to lose, and history has shown that Max usually comes out on top vs Lando anyway.


And as cringe as most of the ceremonial stuff is, the track isn't terrible. And the weather has given us a strange mix up in the calendar, with cooler weather and now the wet as well.

[F1nKS]

There may be some light showers that wrap around into Vegas. It will be cool.

Norris, if he wins this race, can pretty much end the chatter heads' incessant babble that Max is a credible chance to win the championship.

[airshifter]

Having some rain would be fantastic. With the low speed stuff taking a long time to dry on the track, it could make it a real challenge under race conditions, and separate the men from the boys in wet weather driving. Or at least show us who has a pair! :laugh:

[Nitrodaze]

There may be some light showers that wrap around into Vegas. It will be cool.

Norris, if he wins this race, can pretty much end the chatter heads' incessant babble that Max is a credible chance to win the championship.

It would be nice if it went to the last race, but Norris has earned it with great performances. What is the weather for the race?

[airshifter]

There may be some light showers that wrap around into Vegas. It will be cool.

Norris, if he wins this race, can pretty much end the chatter heads' incessant babble that Max is a credible chance to win the championship.

I'm not sure who watched the race and who didn't, so I don't want to post any spoilers.

But it looks like things have just taken a drastic turn. The chatter heads may have been correct.

It would still be a long shot.

[Nitrodaze]

McLaren in trouble!

[Nitrodaze]

I wonder if McLaren has shot itself in the foot with the change in direction they have made to their car. It is slower and quite different from the car they started the season with. You could say the other teams have caught up rather than them being slower, but l doubt that. It would be ironic if they lose the driver's championship as a result.

If they get DSQ, my money would be on Verstappen to win the 2025 driver's championship. This is a demonstration of how to mess up a sure thing with meddling, don't you think?

[Used to be Starter]

I am not surprised Piastri was 5th. He did not look comfortable in that McLaren. What about Hamilton dead last for Ferrari with LeClerc only 9th. All is not well in the Scarlet team. They are set to be woeful in 2026. All the poker faces in the media pen has turned out to be a bluff. Sainz would be laughing his head off after that one.

I doubt they will be able to retain Leclerc next season; there is a very good chance that Hamilton will exit as well. I see Sainz and Piastri at Ferrari in 2027 with Vasseur also gone. I also don't see Ferrari winning a race in 2026 as well.

You know that's not the worst prediction you could make. I can easily see Hamilton retiring and moving on to other things. Leclerc I believe is under contract for next year so is stuck, but very probably eager to make a change. Sainz has found a good home and will stay there. Piastri? Who knows. This year how much was the car and how much him?

[Bagwan]

I don't think anybody is going anywhere until they all see what the pecking order is after they sit in the new cars next year .
Leave all the toys in the pram for now .

The "chatter head" curse hit hard and helped Max here , and , with the "burger deal" curse already having killed Oscar's chance at the win , the end of the season is set up for a nail biter .

[F1nKS]

I wonder if McLaren has shot itself in the foot with the change in direction they have made to their car. It is slower and quite different from the car they started the season with. You could say the other teams have caught up rather than them being slower, but l doubt that. It would be ironic if they lose the driver's championship as a result.

If they get DSQ, my money would be on Verstappen to win the 2025 driver's championship. This is a demonstration of how to mess up a sure thing with meddling, don't you think?

They do indeed get DSQ. Max said they would need a miracle and some luck. He got the miracle.

1. Norris 390
2. Max 366
3. Piastri 366
4. Russell 294

[airshifter]

I'll be the first to admit I didn't have much hope for the Vegas track. But to date it had given us some good racing, and this past weekend was no exception.

Lando did well to qualify in front, but tossed it away by being aggressive off the line when really he had no need to do so. I understand he's trying to show his hand, but he should have been thinking long game. And let's face it, if anyone gets in his head some it seems to be Max. I appreciated Coulthard's comment after the first turn. "Lando Norris tried to play Max at his own game. The problem is he doesn't know the rules."

Between Lawson and Bortoleto both doing a little bowling, some drivers got lucky and others did not. Oscar was put on the back foot, while some towards the rear gained advantages. From there out most of the race stayed fairly clean, though Albon managed to screw it up against Lewis. But at least no major drama or red flags during the race.

I have to say that overall I really think a LOT of drivers, through the entire pack, had really solid races overall. George managed to work through whatever steering problems he had. Leclerc, Sainz, and Hadjar all stayed in the hunt towards the front, and both Lewis and Ocon made the best of things to stay up in the points. Kimi was an absolute monster with that long stint, and was fighting hard to make it work. He threw a spanner in a lot of races with that strategy, and made it work when he needed to.

Up front, I don't think Max really ever felt any pressure. From the first turn forward he seemed to have things well under control. Lando and Oscar did what they could, but TBH I don't think they had the pace advantage hey usually do. They had good races, but the team let them down in the end.



Lando should still have an easy run to the WDC. IF he just plays the long game. Even with the double DQ, he has a big enough lead to essentially play it safe and short of another DQ or some type of DNF life should be easy. He's come back towards year end and is headed towards beating Oscar and Max without any drama needed. But his poor start and the team issues are surely in his head. He just needs to clear that mess and get on with things.

[N. Jones]

I disagree, that race sucked.

[Used to be Starter]

I disagree, that race sucked.
A lot of fun in the middle of the field though.

[F1nKS]

A lot of fun in the middle of the field though.

Yeah, there was a lot of midfield action to keep things interesting through the race.

[airshifter]

Yeah, there was a lot of midfield action to keep things interesting through the race.


A lot of fun in the middle of the field though.


I disagree, that race sucked.


I thought it was an interesting race. Maybe N. Jones is just salty because his FGP hopes got DQ'd! Cut me some slack, another race podium isn't even going to get me to the top half of the FGP field! :laugh:

Sure, most of the action was towards the middle, but wondering if George could hold on, could Leclerc get Kimi.... all good watching IMHO.

[Nitrodaze]

You know that's not the worst prediction you could make. I can easily see Hamilton retiring and moving on to other things. Leclerc I believe is under contract for next year so is stuck, but very probably eager to make a change. Sainz has found a good home and will stay there. Piastri? Who knows. This year how much was the car and how much him?

I would say abit of both. It was bound to be a tough season, moving teams and driving a different type of car. But we all expected a steady progression and for Ferrari to be good enough to win races. This is becoming a winless year for Ferrari, which was a strong second-place team last year.

Hence, the car plays a greater role in how bad things have turned out. If Hamilton can drive that car from 20th into the top ten, that is evidence that he could work wonders with that car if it was good enough.

The SF25 was terrible at all tracks that they were strong at last season, that alone speaks volumes. It has been a failed season for Ferrari. Seeing how bad it has turned out, it can only get worse if they do not make some radical changes. One thing is certain: they do not have a championship-winning mindset in the team at the moment. Hence, there is a vast gap between the winning mentality of Hamilton and the bureaucratic mentality of Ferrari. They look very comfortable losing. That kind of mindset is very difficult to change without some very hard changes.

[Nitrodaze]

From where Verstappen now finds himself after the McLaren disqualification and how well that Redbull is now going, l think it is increasingly likely that Verstappen would snatch the 2025 drivers' championship from Lando. It would be an incredible achievement if he could pull it off.
It would be a serious egg in the face for Brown and Andreas. I cannot see Piastri staying in this eventuality. McLaren would effectively become a team where nobody can win the driver's championship.

[Used to be Starter]

From where Verstappen now finds himself after the McLaren disqualification and how well that Redbull is now going, l think it is increasingly likely that Verstappen would snatch the 2025 drivers' championship from Lando. It would be an incredible achievement if he could pull it off.
It would be a serious egg in the face for Brown and Andreas. I cannot see Piastri staying in this eventuality. McLaren would effectively become a team where nobody can win the driver's championship.

Very possible. Verstappen is not my favorite driver by a good margin, but, given equal equipment, I have in all honesty to say he is the best of the current crop.

[Nitrodaze]

Very possible. Verstappen is not my favorite driver by a good margin, but, given equal equipment, I have in all honesty to say he is the best of the current crop.

He has been awesome, but l would not go as far as to say his the best of the current crop. Piastri is up there, probably on par with Verstappen. Given a championship-winning car, Leclerc, Russell and Sainz would be just as good.