Race Two : 2025 China Grandprix [Shanghai International]

[Nitrodaze]

https://maxf1.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/kina_profil_1.jpg

It is looking like it may be a normal weekend in Shanghai. This is the first sprint weekend of the season., While the rain made it tricky for all newcomers to various teams, the intense sprint weekend would put all rookies on their back foot, once again.

The rivalry between Norris and Piastri shall properly play out this weekend, with Piastri needing to recover a 23-point deficit. This is an opportunity for Norris to stamp his authority to claim the lead driver status early; if he can pull out another race win.

I suspect we shall see the true pecking order of the grid at this race. Ferrari being out of its true position in Australia skewed the order somewhat. [CORRECTION]

Antonelli is the only driver to have kept abreast with his teammate by finishing right behind him at the end of the race. Russell 3rd and Antonelli 4th. The next closest pairing is LeClerc 8th and Hamilton 10th. The weird chicanes, the long straight and sweeping long corner of Shanghai would show the weakness of some cars. Hence l am thinking the grid would be shaken up to a new order.

All eyes are on McLaren to see is they can reproduce that awesome pace we saw in Australia. And Ferrari to see if Australia was a blip. I, for one, am looking forward to the comedy of the Ferrari pit wall. I wonder if the water has become a river in Leclerc's car. The Hamilton - Riccardo Adami partnership did not start on a good footing. I wonder how many times Hamilton has to say "l heard you!" for Ademi to realize the man wants to do it in his own sweet time. Ferrari was a joke in Australia, they grossly underperformed and their pit wall was a far cry from the pinnacle of professionalism. I have a feeling, Ferrari should have refreshed their pitwall this season in preparation for the new regulation season.

The current pitwall crew are the same ones that were responsible for the woeful calls that stymie most of their competitive seasons. Adami was by Vettel's side when their chance to beat Mercedes evaporated. They were mostly the same crew present for all the bizarre strategy calls that have drained the team of potential points finish in the last four seasons. By the looks of the Australia showing, l am thinking they are highly unlikely to win anything against the sharp operation of the competition this season. Their main problem is still very much there and glaring. I would very much like them to prove me wrong.

Is it going to be another McLaren One-Two and in what order this time round? Can Verstappen make it to the podium without the aid of rain? Can Mercedes repeat the pace that we saw at Melbourne? Is the Ferrari SF25 a dud?

[N. Jones]

Are the threat of wing changes going to hurt McLaren, if they come to pass? It seems as if any rule change is specifically aimed at them.

[Nitrodaze]

Are the threat of wing changes going to hurt McLaren, if they come to pass? It seems as if any rule change is specifically aimed at them.

During preseason testing, there were lots of wings deflecting. That was Redbull blowing the whistle again, I heard. The McLaren did not seem to deflect that much, and Mercedes seemed to deflect noticeably. If I recall, it was flapping on the Sauber.

I suspect, many midfield teams may suffer from the rule change. It would be interesting to see how it may affect McLaren. I think they were told about the rules change during preseason testing, so they all have time to prepare the car for FIA wing testing, which is due in a couple races time. I doubt it would have any impact on McLaren.

[gm99]

All teams have not raced China since 2019, over the infamous Covid period. Hence, we should expect most teams to be finding their footing once again.


Ehm, they raced there last year? Verstappen won from Norris and Perez.

[Nitrodaze]

Ehm, they raced there last year? Verstappen won from Norris and Perez.

Wow, l must have missed that race somehow. Did they???

I just checked, yes they did and l did not watch that race for some reason.

[Nitrodaze]

During preseason testing, there were lots of wings deflecting. That was Redbull blowing the whistle again, I heard. The McLaren did not seem to deflect that much, and Mercedes seemed to deflect noticeably. If I recall, it was flapping on the Sauber.

I suspect, many midfield teams may suffer from the rule change. It would be interesting to see how it may affect McLaren. I think they were told about the rules change during preseason testing, so they all have time to prepare the car for FIA wing testing, which is due in a couple races time. I doubt it would have any impact on McLaren.

Actually, wing changes is due for the China race. Proof Redbull owns the FIA.

[N. Jones]

How does the FIA test the wings? Do the team submit body work for testing, or does the FIA test the cars at a circuit?

[airshifter]

Tests are at the circuit.

Flexiwings have been under FIA scrutiny for some time now. Since some teams had already invested the time to make them, the FIA gave some leeway and decided not to change testing until Spain. What the teams in turn did was make the rear wings deform in new and other ways, to a point that the FIA decided to clamp down on the rear wings now. AFAIK front wing tests still won't change until Spain.


Personally I think they are like dogs chasing their tails. Highly flexing front wings go back quite some time, and usually testing does little to change things. They need better tests if they want to stop it, but more importantly they need to decide what, as well as what not, to allow. More than anything they need to prioritize only making changes during the off season. If a wing is legal then let it race through the season, and make the change at seasons end. If it's not legal, such as the mini DRS flexing, then clarify that quickly and cause compliance.

[Matthew]

The Australian GP was crazy with all the rain challenging the drivers, but the Chinese GP is set to be dry (https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/what-is-the-weather-forecast-for-the-2025-chinese-grand-prix.3CZYQNQZkVVMvJgzhcWvHx) and action-packed and I hope that we see a great race without too many safety car involvements. Beyond the racing, fans can enjoy the Checkered Flag Carnival (https://www.fanamp.com/tr/checkered-flag-carnival) with live music, a Zhou Guanyu fan event, and a pet-friendly day. The Fan Zone behind the grandstand will have interactive experiences, merch, and great food.

[F1nKS]

How does the FIA test the wings? Do the team submit body work for testing, or does the FIA test the cars at a circuit?

They do static testing. At the Chinese Grand Prix, they are restricting the deflection to 0.75 mm under static load. The allowable deflection of a Suzuka will be reduced to 0.5mm.

A more stringent front wing test will be conducted at the Spanish Grand Prix.

[Nitrodaze]

How does the FIA test the wings? Do the team submit body work for testing, or does the FIA test the cars at a circuit?

They take a test rig to each car and use it to apply pressure to certain points on the wing and measure the deflections and gap openings. If the deflections are within spec; pass otherwise fail. Unfortunately, l don't know much about the rig that would be used in China.

With all the logistics problems that have caused cars to arrive very late to Shanghai, l wonder if they would have the time to perform the test before the race. I suspect they may have to perform the test after the race. I am speculating. That may defeat the purpose of the test, as the flexibility of the car before the race is not the same as one that has undergone structurally altering vibrations by the end of the race.

[Nitrodaze]

Tests are at the circuit.

Flexiwings have been under FIA scrutiny for some time now. Since some teams had already invested the time to make them, the FIA gave some leeway and decided not to change testing until Spain. What the teams in turn did was make the rear wings deform in new and other ways, to a point that the FIA decided to clamp down on the rear wings now. AFAIK front wing tests still won't change until Spain.


Personally I think they are like dogs chasing their tails. Highly flexing front wings go back quite some time, and usually testing does little to change things. They need better tests if they want to stop it, but more importantly they need to decide what, as well as what not, to allow. More than anything they need to prioritize only making changes during the off season. If a wing is legal then let it race through the season, and make the change at seasons end. If it's not legal, such as the mini DRS flexing, then clarify that quickly and cause compliance.

I agree, l fail to see why the already stringent stiffness of the wing is not enough. It is not a safety thing, hence it must be a performance thing. The FIA should be leaving this sort of thing for the teams to sort out among themselves. If there is time to be found there, then every team should adopt it if they can. The in-season changes in regulation are disruptive and add unnecessary cost to the team's very tight budget. These interruptions seem like gimmicks of the FIA to tweak who wins and how they win the championships. From a fan's perspective, it is over-regulating and counter-intuitive to their cost-saving initiative.

All of this fuss is for 0.25mm. Madness

I say that l really don't know how such a small deflection is translated into performance. It might be a big deal if an ingenious engineer has found a way to make this deflection contribute transient added performance when the car is in motion. Even so, l think it can level out if each team adopt it if they can. Which l think, is a more efficient way of sorting it out.

[N. Jones]

Thank you for all of the responses.
I am guessing that due to the sheer speeds that the wings are going to flex and that the FIA is setting regulations on how much they can allowed to flex?

[Nitrodaze]

Thank you for all of the responses.
I am guessing that due to the sheer speeds that the wings are going to flex and that the FIA is setting regulations on how much they can allowed to flex?

The problem is they have reduced how much it flexes to the point where the wings are going to need to be highly stiff. I suspect that may have over-specified, l am thinking lots of teams are going to fall foul of this regulation. Stiffer wings add more weight to the car. The teams would need to find other areas in the car to remove the weight they are putting on the wings.

Unfortunately, this regulation would punish the midfield teams the most.

[airshifter]

Thank you for all of the responses.
I am guessing that due to the sheer speeds that the wings are going to flex and that the FIA is setting regulations on how much they can allowed to flex?

Well, yes and no, and that is where the problems come into the picture.

This most recent change with rear wing tests is that the teams are claimed to have exploited a new approach. Rather than the end parts of the wing flewing upwards, the gap from upper to lower element of the wings is getting wider. Essentially it's still bleeding off drag as it goes faster. But per the regs, passing the static tests deems it legal. Because of that, FIA has to clarify exactly what they consider ignoring the rules..... which often aren't very clear. And a static test won't show aeroelasticity, account for vibration and high track temps, etc. So it ends up being like a dog chasing its tail.

It's not like the flexiwings are new at all, they have been around for years. And in the case of RB, I can see their frustration with the FIA. Back in 2011 the FIA changed static wing tests due to RB having too much flex. Not that it was ever illegal per the tests, but when the other teams made an issue of it the tests were changed. Fast forward to 2021 and a technical directive is issued that seemed to target the RB rear wing. Front wings flexing came more and more into play again, yet nobody seemed to pay much attention. McLaren had the rear wing used only for a couple of races last season and deemed not legal to use any longer.... but nobody got disqualified. Was it legal, or not legal? Similar to RB, it was IMHO legal, they simply had to "outlaw" it and make a new rule.

So while all of that is going on, RB ask for clarifcation on the front wing regs. The FIA decides they are flexing too much once again, and they will change it. But then they decided not to change it until part way through the following (this) season. To me it seems as if every time a yes/no question is asked of the FIA, the answer is maybe/eventually.

[Nitrodaze]

Thank you for all of the responses.
I am guessing that due to the sheer speeds that the wings are going to flex and that the FIA is setting regulations on how much they can allowed to flex?

At a certain speed, the air rushing over the wings literally feels like the wing is passing through a body of fluid. Like passing a slim plastic blade fast through water for instance. Due to the sheer weight of the volume of air passing over the wing, a downward force builds up on the wing which at some point forces the wing to deflect, simple Newton's Law of physics. The wings are designed to deflect under load to absorb this force. As such, under load, the wing takes on a new shape which translates the downward force into lowering the car for improved drag efficiency and transfers the force to the tyres to increase grip. But there is a third factor, the reshaped format of the deflected wing redefines the airflow characteristics over the car, which is where those with deflecting wings are probably making gains.

Where the FIA is forcing teams to reduce the deflection of the wings, the risk of the wings becoming stiffer and brittle increases. If the wings do not deflect to absorb the forces, they are likely to load up until they snap. Which is where the new risk is being opened on the cars. We don't know how the wings would snap. Are they going to be a clean fracture with big chunks or with possibly smaller bits? With smaller bits, we could have very dangerous projectiles that may be flung out to following cars. One such projectile blinded Helmet Marko in one eye, bringing his racing career to a premature end.

This is why these in-season changes in regulation such as these, which are not backed by research and testing to establish the safety aspects of the change are worrying.

So there is a conflict of opinion going on between the engineers and the FIA. The FIA has reduced deflection to 0.75mm maximum from 1cm. The engineers now need to make the wing stiffer by either making it thicker or using a different material that can deflect less but have a lower weight penalty. The side effect of this regulation is that the car may gain some weight as a consequence and the teams would have to expend cost to research, design, test and manufacture a new wing in-season. As such the teams have unplanned costs to factor into their budget for the season.

So you could say the FIA is making the cars heavier and increasing the spend of the teams as a consequence.

With regards to my saying the FIA is influencing the championship outcome by these in-season changes, it is simply a matter of "Observers Effect", any change introduced by the FIA shifts benefit from one contestant to another unwittingly or intentionally. So the FIA cannot on one hand claim F1 is a free and fair platform of competition if they are actively meddling with the outcome with unplanned in-season changes in regulation. This is why the argument for the FIA to set the regulations at the beginning of the season and leave the teams to trash it out amongst themselves is the best approach. It then goes down to the ingenuity of the teams to think their way to the front of the grid through the season.

The development war between the teams is an important component of F1 racing. It is the main factor that sets the formula above all others. Over-regulating this aspect is like stifling the formula, sucking the very life out of it. Putting the teams through treacle is not entertaining. The constructor's championship is based on this development war.

[tbazsi95]

Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen's Ghost Car Lap Comparison | 2025 Chinese Grand Prix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXuAf8ly6hs

[Nitrodaze]

Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen's Ghost Car Lap Comparison | 2025 Chinese Grand Prix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXuAf8ly6hs

Wow, Hamilton on sprint pole! That was unexpected but very special.

The ghost car lap shows how unstable the Ferrari was. Hamilton was going left and right compared to Verstappen who had a more stable and balanced car, but unfortunately slower. The Ferrari just seemed to rocket away from the Redbull on the straight. At this stage, the Ferrari is not quite at McLarens performance levels, but close enough to give them a hard time this season.

I heavily criticised Ferrari for their performance at Melbourne, but they have responded with a great start to this weekend with Sprint pole. Hammy is still not where he likes to be with the car, but we can now see the enormous potential building in the scarlet 44 car.

[Nitrodaze]

Once again, Yuki sticks a finger out at Redbull with a brilliant top-ten grid position as Lawson languishes out in SQ1. I am enjoying this developing embarrassment as Yuki's performance all year would constantly remind Redbull of their bad decision.

When you fail to be objective, this is what happens; egg in the face moments like this.

[N. Jones]

Is the second Red Bull sabotaged or are the second drivers just that bad?

[tbazsi95]

Celebrating 25 years of Bernd Mayländer as the official FIA Safety Car driver
https://www.instagram.com/p/DHdzZ7-ty_3/

[Nitrodaze]

Is the second Red Bull sabotaged or are the second drivers just that bad?

Haha, good question. He is just getting the standard Redbull treatment.

[saco0o]

im at a point where i dont want to see yuki in the second red bull car because no one can race those cars, only max. that has been proven year after year, cmon. just leave him there waiting the next honda team to bring him on (is it aston martin in 27? i got confused with all the "brand X using brand Y engines" thing)

[Used to be Starter]

Once again, Yuki sticks a finger out at Redbull with a brilliant top-ten grid position as Lawson languishes out in SQ1. I am enjoying this developing embarrassment as Yuki's performance all year would constantly remind Redbull of their bad decision.

When you fail to be objective, this is what happens; egg in the face moments like this.

Agree.

[Nitrodaze]

HAMILTON WINS SHANGHAI SPRINT RACE!!!

Goes to show what poor support he was getting at Mercedes last season. The Ferrari pace was quite ominous, McLaren have a worry on their minds now. Lets see how McLaren get on in the main race to determine how worried they would feel after this weekend.


You can't put a good man down!

[Nitrodaze]

PIASTRI!!!
Piastri takes pole at china. What a drive! The McLaren seems to be struggling with tyre wear at the track, hence it would take great strategy and race pace for Piastri to convert pole into race win. Russell has his best chance to win the race from second. Verstappen on the second row is equally dangerous, he can be ahead of the pack by the first corner if those ahead have a bad start.

Race pace of Ferrari is very good and they seem to manage their tyres better than the cars ahead. Hence, l expect to see one Ferrari; at least, on the podium by the end of the race. It is hard to guess who is going to be on the podium, but l would hazard a guess and say, Russell, Piastri, Hamilton in any order.

[F1nKS]

Winners and Losers in Qualifying

Winners
1. Piastri - The sprint race showed overtaking is difficult. He is in a position to turn a good start in the China GP into a great finish.

2. Russel - He is leading Mercedes and showing they are competitive in the championship race.

3. The Rookies (Hadjar/Antonelli) - Hadjar good turnaround from last week and Antonelli continues to impress.

4. Racing Bulls—Tsunoda should be breathing a sigh of relief he didn't get picked to go into the "death seat" in F1. Right now, his car seems to be the best in the midfield.

Losers

1. Red Bull—On one lap, Verstappen might have a chance for the fastest lap, but Red Bull can not sustain it due to their tire wear being greater than others around them. At this point it does not look like he is in the running for the world championship.

There was a comment that Verstappen wants more front end, which makes the back end unstable, and that most drivers don't like a squirrelly back end. That might explain why Lawson looks totally uncomfortable in the Red Bull. It's been a terrible start for Lawson.

Redbull is looking like they will finish 3rd or 4th in the championship.

2. Sainz - He is struggling. I really expected him to be just as fast as Albon and to be in the running for Q1.

3. Tsunoda - if Lawson continues to suck and he continues to over-perform, there is becoming a greater risk that he might be promoted to the "death seat."

[Nitrodaze]

Winners and Losers in Qualifying


4. Racing Bulls—Tsunoda should be breathing a sigh of relief he didn't get picked to go into the "death seat" in F1. Right now, his car seems to be the best in the midfield.


3. Tsunoda - if Lawson continues to suck and he continues to over-perform, there is becoming a greater risk that he might be promoted to the "death seat."

If he has any sense, he would reject the offer to move up. Such a move is career suicide.

[airshifter]

I don't think we have seen the end of surprises for this weekend. Through both qual sessions and the sprint, the advantages keep moving back and forth. Some drivers have taken huge chunks of time out of another lap, and race pace still favors clean air for everyone it seems.

A lot of people seemed to think McLaren were just going to walk away with things this year, but I don't think it's going to be quite that easy. With the new surface hard on tires, strategy and tire management could become a big factor for the race. Who takes control at the race start might play a big factor, and if the lead driver is pushed on pace it could leave the Ferraris and Max in a position to conserve more and inherit the race lead earlier in the race. I suspect at least one team will split strategy and go for the push myself.


Amazing season start for the Racing Bulls. Lawson tanking horribly, and TBH it just shows that the car alone can't do it. It does seem like the immediate "do or die" seat. Personally I think of all their choices Albon would have worked out best in the long run.

And it looks like the rookies will keep us entertained, even if the front of the pack sorts out quickly. There is no doubt that a lot of talent is evident in the young new drivers.

[Nitrodaze]

Bizzare things going on at Ferrari at the mo. It's weird why Racing Bull decides to pit Tsunoda from a points position.

The comedy continues. Racing bull are so dodgy at the mo. Somehow they have put Yuki behind Lawson. Make what you want from that.

[Nitrodaze]

Ferrari still has work to do on their pitwall. Once again, a strategy that has cost them points.

[Nitrodaze]

I think Yuki would be livid with the Racing Bull team for literally f**king up his race. WTF

Ferrari interfered with a developing race between Hamilton and Russell for 3rd. As usual, they overreacted and swapped the cars which turned out to be no better than what it was with Hamilton. They would have a chat, but this is very typical of Ferrari pitwall, they always seem to shoot themselves in the foot and lose points as a consequence.

This was not a good look for Ferrari.

It is beginning to look like Redbull is sapping Yuki's points to save face.

[Nitrodaze]

Both Ferraris were disqualified!!!

LeClerc under-weight
Hamilton low plank wear

Bummer for Scuderia.

[airshifter]

#FerrariDisasterclass

Well, it's not as if they didn't have the potential to screw up a decent points haul, and they have proven once again to be a clown show on strategy.


Kind of a snoozefest race overall. Oscar stayed in control, and with the late brake problems Lando couldn't launch a late attempt. George had a somewhat lonely race after his exchanges with Lando, but did well to keep the Merc on the podium. No fault on Ferrari for switching cars and letting Charles have a shot at catching George, but once he got close he fell back again. It looked like the top cars were stuck in place until they went to hard and Max started making time on the Ferrari's.

Both the Haas and Williams cars end up in the points after the DQs. And currently Williams is ahead of Ferrari in the WCC.

Losers of the race: Racing Bulls - though Yuki was animated about pushing harder early, they should have reeled them in and learned from the lead teams. They had potential to have at least one car in the points, and tossed it.



The Chinese fans have really come alive post COVID. A lot more flags, banners, crazy hats, and a fun crowd in general. At the rate they are going they will surpass the Japanese and Mexican fans for the overall crowd enjoyment factor.

[Matthew]

Both Ferraris were disqualified!!!

LeClerc under-weight
Hamilton low plank wear

Bummer for Scuderia.

They are at it once again.

https://i.imgur.com/1GzTREh.png

[F1nKS]

It was not the most interesting of races. All the action occurred after the race.

Norris 1 (44)
Piastri 1 (34)

Ferrari, with the double disqualification, is just full of excuses.

Red Bull is having an emergency meeting this week to determine whether they are replacing Lawson. Looking at the comparison of lap time between Lawson and Tsunoda, I am not sure Red Bull would gain anything. I looked at Lawson vs. Tsunoda, and Lawson put more quality laps together than Tsnoda.

Tsunoda's representative had to pull Yuki from the media and shut down the conversation as he said that Lawson was only in the seat for "political" reasons and that he should be in it.

[Nitrodaze]

They are at it once again.

https://i.imgur.com/1GzTREh.png

LOL

Apparently, Hamilton asked to swap positions. The car must have been really bad for him to suggest that.