Indy 500: Thoughts

[xtlm]

I thought it was a very good, competitive race.

But.............rain hindered it, along with a few crashes (that I believe happened in fear of the rain)


The winner really was not the one who should have won....but what are ya going to do, thats racing...lol, GJ Franchitti
- Castroneves was comming on stong

But the racing and competition was intence!, so many cars were still there at the end, the field proved to be strong!



Message to ABC...........Stop showing commertials when the action is going on.....toooo many....stop using side by side as an excuse to go green from yellow without comming back from commertial....bah...bad broadcast


but good racing! just a shame....

[uncre8tv]

I liked the race. I was rooting for all the AGR guys, so I am happy with Franchitti, but disappointed with the rest of them. The Marco crash was at least fun to watch. I am pro-Danica, but admit that her "good job" in victory circle sounded a bit forced. It made me chuckle. At least the Andretti curse isn't rubbing off on the whole team.

[Marbles]

I enjoyed the race... both the original and the sequel. Unfortunately, the weather and the ever increasing cautions turned it into a bit of a crap shoot... but that's motor racing, more often than not.

Points of interest for me:

I don't recall back markers ever taking themselves out in such an orderly fashion through out the race before! It was very... uhmm... soldierly of them. .

Good, if not exceptional, behavior by the drivers up front for the most part but for... I'm gettin' old and losing my memory but I don't remember drivers forcing one another down to the inside wall so often before... not at Indy. It was sickeningly NASCAR like. Not only did it seem acceptable, it was practically encouraged by the lack of any warnings on the part of race control. Oh well, one seriously dangerous, if not fatal crash in the years to come will straighten that out.

I wish L'il Al did better.

Marco was making everybody forget about his very questionable performances earlier in the season until he did something very Andretti like. He was absolutely clueless as to the whereabouts of a competitor when he drove into the side of him. He did drive great up until that point, though.

[Hoss Ghoul]

Good race, that could have been a great race if not for the rain and flurry of cautions at the end.

It proved to be far more competitive than many prognosticators forecast.

If the race had gone green it looked like Penske was going to win, Castroneves and Hornish were fast at the end.

Great save by Kannan, very impressive.

Nice run by Danica, she clearly knows how to get around this place.

Unexpected winner, which was to be expected once the race was restarted with the expectation of rain again-similar to the Cup race with its fuel mileage finish.

[call_me_andrew]

I'd like to point out that I predicted a good race and an AGR winner.

I can understand the drivers being so agressive. The way the weather was acting it seemed like the race could get called at any minute.

And Marbles, you're forgetting that Marco did have a broken right mirror, so he couldn't really tell that there was someone comming up on his right.

[IMSAFAN1]

It was a good race...not a great race just a good one. The guys in the booth are brutal...Rusty doing an open wheel race??? He seemed lost. Bring back Paul Page. The female pit reporter also seemed a bit out of her league. Have to agree with Marbles...I wished that Al "Hamster" Unser and "Fidel" Castroneves did better. The crowd looked good. Marco is the real deal. Get him in F1 soon...

[Sandfly]

I miss Harlan Fingler doing the very visiible and dramatic track inspections during the morning hours before race time.

The crowd can't sing ... even with the words in front of them.

100% Throttle, High drag racing... 4,000 insignificant drafting lead changes In only 4 laps...suggestive of NASCAR - .. by the way did I hear someone mention that this was just like a NASCAR race???

Spare me all the Mom shots - but that Ashley is OK

Glad they got it done and nobody got hurt.

Way to go Flower of SCOTLAND!!!

See you guys next May

[mark123]

It was a good race...not a great race just a good one. The guys in the booth are brutal...Rusty doing an open wheel race??? He seemed lost. Bring back Paul Page. The female pit reporter also seemed a bit out of her league. Have to agree with Marbles...I wished that Al "Hamster" Unser and "Fidel" Castroneves did better. The crowd looked good. Marco is the real deal. Get him in F1 soon...

I didn't see anything today that suggests that Marco could go to F1. Any of the drivers in the front 3 cars YES, but Marco a resounding NO. each driver has 2 spotters, maybe Marco's spotter was grabbing a cold one at the bar when that accident happened.

[RGM Fan]

I have to say it was better than I expected it to be, but still it was pretty dull.

First the Good: The field fillers were stouter than I expected. I expected 10 cars to retire for BS reasons before the halfway point and they all stayed on the track as long as they could. In that way the field was deeper than I thought.

There were more on-track lead changes than I expected.

The AGR cars were competitive for the first time this season.

The bad: The field was still weak and it showed. Seven yellows for single car accidents. I would say none of the people who crashed would have made the field if OWR was as healthy as it was 11 years ago.

Cautions, almost a third of the race ran under the yellow flag. I think this race has one of the lowest amounts of green flag laps ever. I felt a few of the single car accidents should have been cleared faster as no one was hurt.

Television coverage could have/should have been better

Not enforcing the speed differential rule. There were several teams that were consistently running laps 10 mph below the leaders speed and should have been pulled from the track. If they had done this they would have cut down on the number of cautions.

Attendance: The crowd was clearly down from previous years. There was a lot of bare seats, a lot of "Red Hat" sections and the infield wasn't close to full. It's clear the Brickyard 400 out draws the 500 now.

Overall I would say the race was a C, it was better than my expectations, but after Kansas my expectations were pretty low.

[cobre]

RGM,maybe if the field were as strong as say ' 92 there would be more green flag racing and everybody would be happy, other than that I agree with your points >out.

[DBell]

It was a good race...not a great race just a good one. The guys in the booth are brutal...Rusty doing an open wheel race??? He seemed lost. Bring back Paul Page. The female pit reporter also seemed a bit out of her league. Have to agree with Marbles...I wished that Al "Hamster" Unser and "Fidel" Castroneves did better. The crowd looked good. Marco is the real deal. Get him in F1 soon...

If Marco was really serious about F1 he would've been in Europe last year and this season in British F3 or GP2 preparing himself for it. The IRL isn't going to prepare him for F1 and if he does get a shot at it, he'll have an enormous amount of catching up to do to make it.

[gm99]

I got to give credit to Davey Hamilton - I have been a bit skeptical about his return after six years, but to finish a solid 9th and on the lead lap has been pretty impressive actually. I was less impressed with some of the other returnees, Little Al und Buddy Lazier in particular, who didn't feature at all.

Overall, it was a pretty good race and it could have been a potentially great one if it had gone the full distance. I am sure Kanaan and the Penske guys could have made it one hell of a finish...

[eliostar]

Maybe someone can explain this to me, how did Danica come out in third place?. I know she had not pitted when John Andretti crashed, but many others had. She then pitted and the others did not, would she not come out behind the ones that had already pitted?, or am I missing something.

[gerrit]

I thought it was a very good, competitive race.

But.............rain hindered it, along with a few crashes (that I believe happened in fear of the rain)


The winner really was not the one who should have won....but what are ya going to do, thats racing...lol, GJ Franchitti
- Castroneves was comming on stong


See it the other way.
Castroneves could have been out before the start.
Castroneves had problems with the fuel hose. Luckily the pit stops were under yellow, but he could very easily have lost one or two laps.
Looking at this Helio might have called himself luckky to stay on the lead lap.
But who should have won. Don't forget Dan Wheldon was on the move too before Marco took him out. And what about Tony Kanaan.


Gerrit Stevens

[gerrit]

Maybe someone can explain this to me, how did Danica come out in third place?. I know she had not pitted when John Andretti crashed, but many others had. She then pitted and the others did not, would she not come out behind the ones that had already pitted?, or am I missing something.

Danica was fourth when uncle John crashed (lap 98). On lap 100 6 of top 7 pitted. Jeff Simmons (3rd at lap 98) pitted one lap later therefore falling back to 7th.

Just look at the lap chart of the IRL site.

Gerrit Stevens

[gerrit]

And Marbles, you're forgetting that Marco did have a broken right mirror, so he couldn't really tell that there was someone comming up on his right.

Therefore you have spotters who could there is someone on the outside.
So it is the spotter's fault or Marco's.

Gerrit Stevens

[RGM Fan]

If Marco was really serious about F1 he would've been in Europe last year and this season in British F3 or GP2 preparing himself for it. The IRL isn't going to prepare him for F1 and if he does get a shot at it, he'll have an enormous amount of catching up to do to make it.

If he were serious about F-1 he would be in CC right now racing with other F-1 level talent Graham Rahal, Sebation Bourdais, Robert Doornbos, and Neel Jani.

[gerrit]

If he were serious about F-1 he would be in CC right now racing with other F-1 level talent Graham Rahal, Sebation Bourdais, Robert Doornbos, and Neel Jani.

So why isn't Bourdais in F1.

Gerrit Stevens

[Old3Fan]

Does this mean the end of people saying she doesn't belong at this level? She clearly was as good as any this time around.

Not many say she isn't good, just that she dominates the media and until she finally gets a win the unflattering comments will cease. She has the same problem that Sarah Fischer had, an IRL Icon but never could win a race.

[RGM Fan]

So why isn't Bourdais in F1.

Gerrit Stevens

Rumor has it he's already signed at STR and is considered a long term replacement the Red Bull team.

[DBell]

So why isn't Bourdais in F1.

Gerrit Stevens

Because he wouldn't sign away control of his career to Flavio Briatore.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

The crowd was amazing and the vast majority stuck out the rain delay.

[Rantanamo]

Because he wouldn't sign away control of his career to Flavio Briatore.

exactly. F-1 isn't like going to the NBA. A lot of rides and offers suck.

[xtlm]

RGM,maybe if the field were as strong as say ' 92 there would be more green flag racing and everybody would be happy, other than that I agree with your points >out.

hmm 1992

(this is going to be an unpopular post...but I just have too.....)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Indianapolis_500

4 on lead lap
12 finished
Due to many accidents during the race, the average speed for the winner was the lowest since 1958.
Speed: 134.477 mph
11 accidents

vs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Indianapolis_500

13 on lead lap
22 finish
Race average speed: 151.774
Cautions: 11
Lead changes: 23



I just had to make this post <_<

I also have my own opinion about the talent level of todays drivers and those of back then.

[mark123]

people do have selected memories. the current IRL is pretty decent. Of course, it would be better if Champcar & IRL merged

[R. Mears]

people do have selected memories. the current IRL is pretty decent. Of course, it would be better if Champcar & IRL merged
Tony George would do everything in his power to prevent that. Don't forget he is the reason for the begining of the end of CART.

[Hoss Ghoul]

It would be nice if anyone who was an ardent fan of either series pulled their nose up from the pile....

As it is, thankfully, we have a dozen or so realists, moderators included, that keep these boards worthwhile.

[ShiftingGears]

If he were serious about F-1 he would be in CC right now racing with other F-1 level talent Graham Rahal, Sebation Bourdais, Robert Doornbos, and Neel Jani.

No, he'd be in Gp2. AOWR just isn't where F1 looks at the moment.


Anyway, well done to Briscoe for grabbing 5th. As I didn't see the race, does anyone think that he could've won the 500?

[gm99]

Anyway, well done to Briscoe for grabbing 5th. As I didn't see the race, does anyone think that he could've won the 500?

I don't think he had quite the pace of the AGR and (regular) Penskes - he did run as high as second at one point, but that was mostly through pit stop strategy. Then again, in a race where the rain was a constant threat, he just might have lucked into a win if he had been leading at the right time...

Anyway, fifth is a great result - truly a pity he doesn't have a full-time ride.

[keysersoze]

I have to say it was better than I expected it to be, but still it was pretty dull.

First the Good: The field fillers were stouter than I expected. I expected 10 cars to retire for BS reasons before the halfway point and they all stayed on the track as long as they could. In that way the field was deeper than I thought.

There were more on-track lead changes than I expected.

The AGR cars were competitive for the first time this season.

The bad: The field was still weak and it showed. Seven yellows for single car accidents. I would say none of the people who crashed would have made the field if OWR was as healthy as it was 11 years ago.

Cautions, almost a third of the race ran under the yellow flag. I think this race has one of the lowest amounts of green flag laps ever. I felt a few of the single car accidents should have been cleared faster as no one was hurt.

Television coverage could have/should have been better

Not enforcing the speed differential rule. There were several teams that were consistently running laps 10 mph below the leaders speed and should have been pulled from the track. If they had done this they would have cut down on the number of cautions.

Attendance: The crowd was clearly down from previous years. There was a lot of bare seats, a lot of "Red Hat" sections and the infield wasn't close to full. It's clear the Brickyard 400 out draws the 500 now.

Overall I would say the race was a C, it was better than my expectations, but after Kansas my expectations were pretty low.

And this post is an "F."

You say the field was "stout" and later say it was "weak." You cited seven 1-car accidents. OK, but in the case of Roberto and John Andretti, it was from moving out of the way to allow lead cars to race. That's much different from being inept. Both rookies crashed making mistakes trying to pass--no surpise there--but neither ruined another driver's race. Jacques Lazier, who drove a heck of a race from the back of the field, was hit by Kanaan.

Not enforcing the speed differential, you say? Bollocks. The tail end was turning consistent 214-216s, occasionally slower but occasionaly in the 218s as well. Half the field had fastest laps over 220.

The AGR cars were finally competitive? Have you watched ANY of the races this year? They have been EXTREMELY competitive all year. Last year they weren't. This year--totally different story.

The attendance was down? More crap. Down from, say, the 70s and 80s? Yes, certainly true. But I've been going for the past 4 years and every year my section (NE Vista) gets more full. I'd guess the North Vista and the NE Vista were at 95% of capacity. The crowd on the mounds in the T3 infield was about the same.

[ACTF_ZETT]

My thoughts from the race:

Pre-race: This was the best playing of TAPS I have ever heard in my entire life, and I play the trumpet. The crowd was laughing and such for the first few seconds of the playing of taps (thank you 16oz Miller Lite) but after a few seconds in it got completely quiet. For those of you that wernt at the track it is amazing to have hundereds of thousands of people standing completely still and quiet. Amazing. A few seconds after taps was completed there was applause. My dad said back in the day everyone at the track would stay completely quiet until the announcement for Jim N. Jim Philipie (?) used to public address a short paragraph about those that were lost, of course he passes on a few years ago.

Attendance: Down from last year, however I know the turn out for Indy is definately related to the forecast. Still great crowd on hand. The crowd on Georgetown Saturday night was the most dense I have ever seen and I have been going since 1996. This could be related to the Kid Rock concert on Friday.

Race: Payton Manning flying the green flag ticks me off. They should pick a random fan every year to fly the green flag, that would be sweet.

Last year was one of the best starts I have seen. This year was the opposite. Helio was completely in front of Kanaan and Dario mid way through turn 4. The start should have been waived off. Kanaan still got to lead lap 1.

They got it right later in the race when they actually waived off a restart due to the tail end cars being too far back.

Lots of single car accidents, most because of inexperience. With all of the rain Saturday night, then again Sunday afternoon, no rubber, if you get out of the groove you are going to go straight up to the wall. John Andretti was interviewed during the rain delay, said the track needs to be reworked. WRONG John, you have been out of Indy Cars for over 10 years and running bumper cars. The track doesnt need to be reworked, you need to find a steady job. Stupid comment by a veteran.

Tony Kanaan was amazing to watch. I along with some of my friends who are Kanaan fans in turn 4 were having a ball watching him come up through the field. Great racing up front. The top 10 cars were very close on speed, nobody was really pulling away like usually happens at Indy.

Ive said it before, and I will say it again. Scheckter is an idiot. Yes he was blocked coming down the front stretch making a pass, but you need to back off if there is not room between the car in front of you and the wall.

I thought Scheckter took the cake, but the idiot move of the race goes to Jeff Simmons. Marco's move turned out to be bad but Simmons took the cake. On the restart he goes way low out of turn four and comes back up on to the main straight narrowly missing the pit divide wall. He could of killed himself or someone else. This guy is out of control and really needs a talking to.

Probs to the Indy 500 for drying the track. Very nice job getting it dry as fast as they did.

Dario was fast all month and deserved to win. He is a great winner and I think it will be good for the sport. Someone made a comment of Danica being "fake" visiting him in victory lane. I do not agree with this, I just think that she was very dissapointed in her finish. She is really serious about winning Indy and you can tell how passionate she is about it.

When Kanaan hugged Dario you could see the emotion on his face (Tony's). I feel sick for him and he really deserves an Indy 500 win. Everyone knew the rain was coming, whoever made the call to pit should be looking for a new job today. My dad always says it is bad luck to have a green car at indy, the bad luck continues.

[Alexamateo]

...Everyone knew the rain was coming, whoever made the call to pit should be looking for a new job today...

Good post, except for this. By your reasoning, there should be 12 other crew chief's fired, because they all pitted too. Only 5 guys stayed out (Dario, running 3rd, Dixon, 9th, Briscoe, 14th, Scott Sharp, 15th, and Davey Hamilton 17th.) , and all the rest pitted. In hindsight, it looks brilliant, but what if there had not been two cautions back to back for the Lazier/Kanaan incident, and the Marco/Wheldon crash. The longest anyone had gone between pitstops was 31 laps. Dario pitted at lap 143. Without those instances, it's quite possible he would have had to pit at lap 173-174, losing the lead right as the rains come.

Don't get me wrong, Dario much deserved the win, and it was interesting seeing the different strategies in the end, but it was a tossup as to which way it would go.

[RGM Fan]

And this post is an "F."

You say the field was "stout" and later say it was "weak." You cited seven 1-car accidents. OK, but in the case of Roberto and John Andretti, it was from moving out of the way to allow lead cars to race. That's much different from being inept. Both rookies crashed making mistakes trying to pass--no surpise there--but neither ruined another driver's race. Jacques Lazier, who drove a heck of a race from the back of the field, was hit by Kanaan.

Not enforcing the speed differential, you say? Bollocks. The tail end was turning consistent 214-216s, occasionally slower but occasionaly in the 218s as well. Half the field had fastest laps over 220.

The AGR cars were finally competitive? Have you watched ANY of the races this year? They have been EXTREMELY competitive all year. Last year they weren't. This year--totally different story.

The attendance was down? More crap. Down from, say, the 70s and 80s? Yes, certainly true. But I've been going for the past 4 years and every year my section (NE Vista) gets more full. I'd guess the North Vista and the NE Vista were at 95% of capacity. The crowd on the mounds in the T3 infield was about the same.

I never said the field was stout, I said it was stouter than I expected at the tail end. I fully expected 4 to 10 cars to pull into the pits and call it quits for BS reasons, and they ran until they crashed, which is more than I thought they were capable of. Any way you cut it the last 11 cars had no business in a field if CART was still around.

Yeah, and AGR was soo competitive at Kansas and Homestead. They haven't showed the speed they showed at Indy all season long.

I was at a friend's house with a large screen HD TV and you could see rows and rows of empty seats. Seats that weren't empty in '95 and aren't empty when NASCAR comes to town. Also they are giving away more free tickets than ever. I was offered five pairs myself and I live in Atlanta.

Overall it was a weak feild, there were too many cautions that lasted too long and the start was hugely ragged. There weren't 11 rows of three, the only three abreast cars I saw were way in the back as the first 15 were single file with a car length between them by the start finish line. Even the announcer sounded like they expected the start to be called off.

It was a bad race, but since I expected it to be a horrible race it was better than what I expected, not good, but not the worst case scenario.

[ACTF_ZETT]

RGM fan, I am at work so I will not elaborate but you are way off on some of your comments. Mainly

"Overall it was a weak feild, there were too many cautions that lasted too long"

and

"It was a bad race, but since I expected it to be a horrible race it was better than what I expected, not good, but not the worst case scenario."

I am not sure what they were showing on TV but I have never seen the top 10 cars so bunched together in my life. Yes I know there were cautions but after the long green runs that there were, it was a very competitive field.

How many lead changes were there?

As for the long cautions that lasted too long, the IMS safety crews have the reputation for being on the scene of an accident sometimes even before the cars involved come to a rest. Being at the race I can say that not once did I think to myself "What the F is taking so long?" Unlike every freaking NASCAR caution.

I agree that the start was not what I was hoping for.

[xtlm]

It would be nice if anyone who was an ardent fan of either series pulled their nose up from the pile....

As it is, thankfully, we have a dozen or so realists, moderators included, that keep these boards worthwhile.

I am not sure if you are referencing me or not....in the first part(or umm second)
but yes, I know that both series are...lagging and lacking


I was just arguing that the field is not as bad as people make it out to be.
- I think some could and can run with F1'ers

Yes, back then there were more cars....but if you look at the statistics and results, only a few were actually contenders for any given race....just like now, in either series (and even nascar!)

In the IRL now, you have 7 people that could potentially win at any given race...
2006 irl
6 different winners
2006 champ car
4 different winners
1993
5 different winners
1990
6 different winners
2002 cart
9 different winners
2005 irl
8 different winners

There has always been talent, and there always will be talent.


I used to argue that "Back then there were 10 people with F1 experiance and 3 f1 champs!".....well, after thinking about it how much does this actually improve the racing?
- some of these drivers never won a CART race...while non-F1ers won races.


F1 does not excape the whole (quote from above) "only a few were actually contenders for any given race"...in f1 you have people that are always at the front, middle and back...(I am a new fan (note that i said fan....dont kill me) of it, and this is what i have come to realize) and are these drivers really the "best in the world"?, sure they have the best cars....but what does this mean?

IRL, Champcar...heck nascar, sprint car, carting drivers, etc....will never get to compete against these drivers, or use these cars......which is why wou cannot really compare drivers between leagues.
- except when they do (JPM, NM)

Back in 1993, when Mansell came to the states, he won our championship. BUT he almost lost to a rookie (bah fine, tracy was not a rookie), amung other drivers. Also, many people tend to forget his forgettible 2nd season.
(and that whole mike in europe thing...while I do not remember much, I mostly remember him having trouble with the starts...and by the time he figured it all out, both partys gave up, and his replacement did not do much better)

While I am on it....why do fans argue "Oh he is too old and should quit"...while somewhere else post "Old Cart was great!"

Here are the ages of the top 12 drivers in 1993:
1. 40 - Nigel Mansell
2. 46 - Emerson Fittipaldi
3. 24 - Paul Tracy
4. 40 - Bobby Rahal
5. 35 - Raul Boesel
6. 53 - Mario Andretti
7. 31 - Al Unser, Jr.
8. 40 - Arie Luyendyk
9. 33 - Scott Goodyear
10.24 - Robby Gordon
11.38 - Teo Fabi
12.43 - Danny Sullivan

...looks like a buncha older dudes running arond a track to me, and i could not be happier. (NOTE - older for racing, but not in life)





WOW.......I went way off track...........umm to sum up what I ****Think**** I argued up there.......this may be different than what I set out do do....I have been typing for a while.

- Talent is out there everywhere
- The whole field will never be fully competitive
- Age does not matter
- Lapped traffic will always happen
- Enjoy what you are offered

and

- Racing is good

[V12]

- Talent is out there everywhere
- The whole field will never be fully competitive
- Age does not matter
- Lapped traffic will always happen
- Enjoy what you are offered

and

- Racing is good

Good post, this sums it up perfectly, but just one thing:


(and that whole mike in europe thing...while I do not remember much, I mostly remember him having trouble with the starts...and by the time he figured it all out, both partys gave up, and his replacement did not do much better)

I don't argue that Andretti could have had a good F1 career had he been given longer, but at the risk of going a little off topic - his replacement did not do much better? Hakkinen outqualified Ayrton Senna in his first race for the team, and went on to win two world championships with them...

[xtlm]

Good post, this sums it up perfectly, but just one thing:



I don't argue that Andretti could have had a good F1 career had he been given longer, but at the risk of going a little off topic - his replacement did not do much better? Hakkinen outqualified Ayrton Senna in his first race for the team, and went on to win two world championships with them...

No no no, I DO NOT mean that (CAPITALS FOR CLEARNESS...not yelling, etc)

I mean for the remainder of that very season ONLY, where he retired 2 times and came in 3rd once.
- which was similar to Mikes season, for the same team/car.

- He turned out to be very very good, which may be because he had longer to develop in those cars



2 more points I just thought of
1. I could argue that competiton is better now, because the older drivers are not as competitive, but take this as you will.
2. Just to clear up a question and responce down there: there were 23 lead changes this year, comming from a track (no, a flat out, full throttle oval (type track))
that is not historically known for that many passes.

[xtlm]

oh, and thanks for the complement :)


ya, the Hakkinen thing was just a results comparison for the remainder of that season.

[DBell]

^^^^^
Timing is everything in life and Michael's couldn't have been worse than the year he went over. He made a mistake in not renting a place to live over there,IMO, if only for the sake of appearance.

[V12]

Good points - I had forgotten about the whole testing restriction thing (I was only 10 in 1993) - IIRC McLaren's inital plan was to run Andretti and Hakkinen that year until Senna took a last-minute U-turn on his plan to take a Prost-style sabbatical until a Williams became available (which is why Senna drove #8 and Andretti #7) - I wonder how the two of them (Hakkinen and Andretti) would have fared head-to-head over 16 races...

[keysersoze]

I never said the field was stout, I said it was stouter than I expected at the tail end. I fully expected 4 to 10 cars to pull into the pits and call it quits for BS reasons, and they ran until they crashed, which is more than I thought they were capable of. Any way you cut it the last 11 cars had no business in a field if CART was still around.

Yeah, and AGR was soo competitive at Kansas and Homestead. They haven't showed the speed they showed at Indy all season long.

I was at a friend's house with a large screen HD TV and you could see rows and rows of empty seats. Seats that weren't empty in '95 and aren't empty when NASCAR comes to town. Also they are giving away more free tickets than ever. I was offered five pairs myself and I live in Atlanta.\

Overall it was a weak feild, there were too many cautions that lasted too long and the start was hugely ragged. There weren't 11 rows of three, the only three abreast cars I saw were way in the back as the first 15 were single file with a car length between them by the start finish line. Even the announcer sounded like they expected the start to be called off.

It was a bad race, but since I expected it to be a horrible race it was better than what I expected, not good, but not the worst case scenario.

CCWS (not CART) is still around. No one had the stones to buy / lease some equipment and show up. They wanted free stuff and Penske's set-up notes. Translation: they were too intimidated to come and made an impossible demand so they could save face. Fact is, the 33 fastest guys got in. The field was covered less than 7 mph. The fastest race laps recorded by the drivers were separated by about the same. Am I saying John Herb is equal to Helio? No. But do you think Alex Figge or Matt Halliday are as talented as Sebastian Bourdais?

Here are the starting grid positions for the three best AGR cars in each of the first five races:

Homestead: 3rd, 4th, 5th
St. Pete: 2nd, 3rd, 6th
Motegi: 3rd, 4th, 7th
Kansas: 1st, 6th, 9th
Indy: 2nd, 3rd, 8th

Sorry, I'm still not seeing that they "haven't showed the speed they showed at Indy."

I'm not arguing that the place is full. I'm maintaining that the attendance is the best it's been since I've been going (since '04) and that T3 and North Vista were 95% full. Actually, I'd say the NE Vista (which is much bigger) was 98% and the North Vista more like 90%. I can vouch for this--I was actually there.

Weak field compared to what? Compared to other Indy fields? If you know the history of this race, that is a very dubious claim.

Cautions lasted long at oval races even when CART was around. Heck, even road course cautions were excruciatingly long. Only F1 does it right.

The start stunk--agreed.

If you are offered five pairs of tickets you need to take them. Heck, I live in Atlanta, too--I'll gladly meet up with you and relieve you of them.

Over the years I've introduced several friends and relatives to the race (now a party of five accompany me to Indy) and they are just blown away by the cars, the speed, the entire spectacle that is Indy.

[RGM Fan]

Since your expectations were so low it's patently obvious you have an agenda.

I'm a fan, not a fan of CC or NASCAR, although I was until this season. I want to see good racing. Kansas was horrid, no way around it. The rest of the ovals I've seen from the IRL this year were sleepers. I expected the 500 to be so as well. Based on that I didn't take my cousins up on any of the free tickets I was offered. After watching the race I feel like I made the right move by not killing my weekend to drive up to Indy.

Agenda? What agenda could I possibly have? The IRL isn't going to live or die based on what I say.

[Colsanders]

Well, to all the nay-sayers, Marco is just a chip off the old block(s): He drives to win and given the proper testing time and the right team, he would be great in F1 if he goes.

Danica is the real deal. Franchitti IS a deserving winner; he is and has always been a very good race driver.

The big story to me, watching this year's race on TV (recorded), was all the empty seats; most of the lower rows, RIGHT BEHIND THE PITS, were empty.

I hope a real wake-up call in the IMS ivory tower. A new approach is needed, and needed now! Before NOBODY pays to show up!

[RGM Fan]

CCWS (not CART) is still around. No one had the stones to buy / lease some equipment and show up. They wanted free stuff and Penske's set-up notes. Translation: they were too intimidated to come and made an impossible demand so they could save face. Fact is, the 33 fastest guys got in. The field was covered less than 7 mph. The fastest race laps recorded by the drivers were separated by about the same. Am I saying John Herb is equal to Helio? No. But do you think Alex Figge or Matt Halliday are as talented as Sebastian Bourdais?


The fastest 33 guys didn't make the race, about 10 relatively fast guys made the race and everyone else was filler. Do you have any idea how big 7 mph per lap is off? Even with spec equipment there were three competitive teams on Sunday, everyone else was racing for 10th place. Dario lucked into a win, its okay it happens sometimes.

A third of the race was run under caution, and even with 11 cautions, an average of one every 15.2 or so laps half the field managed to get themselves lapped. If it was as close as you say more cars should have been on the lead lap with that kind of yellow flag waiving.

Any rational person believes getting the top three CC teams to show up would have been worth the cost. What they offered TG was a lot cheaper than what happened when he subsidizing about 10 cars out of his pocket. If the CC teams showed there would have been less cautions, because it was the back markers who found the wall, twice as many competitive teams and likely a different winner who probably speaks french.

[BoilerIMS]

The number of lead changes on an oval where all the cars run flat all the way around is hardly indicative of quality racing. I'm not saying it wasn't a good race, just questioning your premise.

Add in the fact that many of the "lead changes" were during green flag pit cycles, and the stats mean very little. If I were an announcer, any lead changes during a green pit cycle wouldn't count toward my running tally.

[keysersoze]

The fastest 33 guys didn't make the race, about 10 relatively fast guys made the race and everyone else was filler. Do you have any idea how big 7 mph per lap is off? Even with spec equipment there were three competitive teams on Sunday, everyone else was racing for 10th place. Dario lucked into a win, its okay it happens sometimes.

A third of the race was run under caution, and even with 11 cautions, an average of one every 15.2 or so laps half the field managed to get themselves lapped. If it was as close as you say more cars should have been on the lead lap with that kind of yellow flag waiving.

Any rational person believes getting the top three CC teams to show up would have been worth the cost. What they offered TG was a lot cheaper than what happened when he subsidizing about 10 cars out of his pocket. If the CC teams showed there would have been less cautions, because it was the back markers who found the wall, twice as many competitive teams and likely a different winner who probably speaks french.

The reason only 10 drivers were capable of winning the race is because they were the best teams BY FAR. You are truly demonstrating your lack of knowledge of the drivers that comprised the middle and back of the grid. Scott Sharp, Buddy Lazier, Al Unser, Richie Hearn, and Alex Barron are all former race winners. Two have won Indy. Roberto Moreno is a former F1 shoe (for Benetton!), a former CART winner, and the driver entrusted with shaking down and dialing in the new CCWS car, the Panoz DP01.

Yes, I do know how much 7 mph is--it represents one of the tightest margins in the history of the race. It's about .7 tenths per lap IIRC.

Many of the drivers who got lapped had car problems, not speed problems. Sarah, Yasukawa, Manning--just off the top of my head. Making a green flag start just before a yellow will do a driver in as well. There were 5-6 drivers who were going to get lapped regularly, but how many drivers were on the lead lap at Monaco on Sunday. Only three. Kimi Raikkonnen was one of them.

Having Tony George subsidize the top CCWS teams is preposterous on several levels. Think harder about that. But I will say that better drivers does not equal fewer cautions:

Kanaan caused the caution that took out Lazier.

Marco caused the caution that took out FOUR drivers, including two former Indy 500 winners. All of the lesser talent only took themself out. Also, recall last year when Helio dive-bombed Buddy Rice in T4 and took both of them out (both, incidentally, are 500 winners.)

Moreno, the first to hit the fence, is a redoubtable drivers by anyone's estimation.

Giebler, the rookie of the year, is a real talent who happened to be saddled with an outdated chassis in a poorly-funded team. This kind of thing happens--just reference the early careers of Nigel Mansell, Ayrton Senna, etc.

What does the winner speaking French have to do anything, sie vous plait?

[gerrit]

Good post, except for this. By your reasoning, there should be 12 other crew chief's fired, because they all pitted too. Only 5 guys stayed out (Dario, running 3rd, Dixon, 9th, Briscoe, 14th, Scott Sharp, 15th, and Davey Hamilton 17th.) , and all the rest pitted. In hindsight, it looks brilliant, but what if there had not been two cautions back to back for the Lazier/Kanaan incident, and the Marco/Wheldon crash. The longest anyone had gone between pitstops was 31 laps. Dario pitted at lap 143. Without those instances, it's quite possible he would have had to pit at lap 173-174, losing the lead right as the rains come.

Don't get me wrong, Dario much deserved the win, and it was interesting seeing the different strategies in the end, but it was a tossup as to which way it would go.


In hindsight we all look bright.
What if it had not rained and not that many yellows. Franchitti would indeed had to pit around laps 170-175.
But the other who pitted at lap 155 would also have to pit one more time. I don't see the advantage of pitting at lap 155 except for the last cars in the pack.
Why did team Penske (and AGR) not split their team strategy.

BTW without yellows the Penske cars would not have moved up that fast because they still had to contend with Tony Kanaan and Marco Andretti who would not let them pass that easily.

BTW2. the pitstops of Danica Patrick were not phantastic. I believe she lost several ranks at the last stop.


Gerrit Stevens

[xtlm]

The fastest 33 guys didn't make the race, about 10 relatively fast guys made the race and everyone else was filler. Do you have any idea how big 7 mph per lap is off? Even with spec equipment there were three competitive teams on Sunday, everyone else was racing for 10th place. Dario lucked into a win, its okay it happens sometimes.

A third of the race was run under caution, and even with 11 cautions, an average of one every 15.2 or so laps half the field managed to get themselves lapped. If it was as close as you say more cars should have been on the lead lap with that kind of yellow flag waiving.

Any rational person believes getting the top three CC teams to show up would have been worth the cost. What they offered TG was a lot cheaper than what happened when he subsidizing about 10 cars out of his pocket. If the CC teams showed there would have been less cautions, because it was the back markers who found the wall, twice as many competitive teams and likely a different winner who probably speaks french.

what keysersoze said and


As I have showed from earlier posts, This type of thing has always gone on....people on the lead lap are usually few in numbers, and lead changes are usually much less on the 'times occured' scale.....and the driver talent is not as bad as you make it out to be...at all.

Do I have to repost my earlier post?!


Many good drivers were put in not so good cars...this does not mean that they are bad drivers.....look at the F1 race over the weekend, 3 on the lead lap!... is that whole field just fillers? Nope




Oh, and that french speaking dude tried the race in 2005...he crashed and came in 12th, I guess he was a filler too.


read my earlier post.

[Colsanders]

If the talent for this year's Indy was as robust as some claim, then there would have been alot of "bumped" drivers and cars.

[xtlm]

If the talent for this year's Indy was as robust as some claim, then there would have been alot of "bumped" drivers and cars.

true, but not 100% true....i gotta go do things now...so i got no time to type

[indycool]

Why would more talent lead to more bumps? CC supporters have this unique agenda about Bump Day at Indy and finger-point at it a lot. Yet 33 cars start the race every year with competent drivers.

[Okeefe]

I don't think Milka's competency matches that which is required to race the Indy 500, personally.

[gerrit]

I don't think Milka's competency matches that which is required to race the Indy 500, personally.

She did not much wrong. Of course she made a mistake which took her out. But the mistakes of Andretti and Scheckter were far more stupid. Still no one says they don't have the competency.

Gerrit Stevens

[Bob Riebe]

The Indianapolis 500 . is the Indianpolis 500; if it were not the biggest thing in racing, the Andrettis, Penskes, etcetera would not make it the center of their racing lives.

Now the only post-USAC 500 mile race run, in the US that had a field of boobs, incapable of getting around the track even once, was that pretend 500 put on by CART in 1996.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Just watching my replays of the race....Hornish was plenty dirty when he blocked Tomas Scheckter almost into the inside wall on the front stretch.

Hornish, I knew I already had reasons not to like you with your forays into taxicab racing, but after that blatant blocking, I KNOW I don't like you. Go do that crap in NAPCAR.

Looking at the replays, he was waaaaaay off his proper racing line to block a significantly faster hard charging Scheckter.

And Barnhart, you have no credibility as a referee for not black flagging the No. 6 car. Too afraid of Captain Liverspots ????

Black flag Dixon last year for QUESTIONABLE blocking and sit on your hands for Hornish this year for BLATANT blocking. Way to go bonehead .

[Alexamateo]

Now the only post-USAC 500 mile race run, in the US that had a field of boobs, incapable of getting around the track even once, was that pretend 500 put on by CART in 1996.

Karma's a bitch ain't it! :D

[dwboogityfan]

Haven't watched or followed Indy Racing a great deal since the split and the decline of CART but always watch the 500. I think the field this year was pretty strong and the race was memorable.
Was relieved to see Marco Andretti escape his horrible crash - although that is partly down to the fantastic reactions of Carpenter in the #20 car who spun his car to avoid plowing into the rolling #26.
One thing about Indy Racing is it does seem to have some good personalities. Was delighted to see Dario Franchitti win a big race - he has been the forgotten man of British motorsport for too long. Also Davey Hamilton gave us a feel good story - for a guy who hasn't raced in a while and overcome serious injuries to finish in the top 10 was a great achievement.

[CARTDM15]

[quote="Colsanders"]Well, to all the nay-sayers, Marco is just a chip off the old block(s):

Danica is the real deal.

What makes you say that.She is ninth in points in a 18 car field.She finish eight at INDY.Davey Hamilton hadn't drove a car in seven years and finish ninth.She haves never finished better than fourth in her career and never led a lap in Barber-Dodge or Atlantics.She is an average driver plain and simple.If it was a male driver with those same numbers you wouldn't be making that statement.I just don't get you people

[ChicagocrewIRL]

What makes you say that.She is ninth in points in a 18 car field.She finish eight at INDY.Davey Hamilton hadn't drove a car in seven years and finish ninth.She haves never finished better than fourth in her career and never led a lap in Barber-Dodge or Atlantics.She is an average driver plain and simple.If it was a male driver with those same numbers you wouldn't be making that statement.I just don't get you people

"If anybody out there still doesn't think Danica Patrick is a racer, then they either know nothing about motorsports or didn't watch Sunday's show. She drove up to second place, made some awesome passes (one on Dan Wheldon was a beauty) in traffic and drove her best race of her three Indy 500 starts. Her result (eighth) did not reflect her drive."
- - Robin Miller (Speedtv.com) 05/30/07

This from Robin Miller, a guy known not to sugar coat things or is easily impressed.

Which category do you fall into CARTDM15???

A.) Know nothing about motorsports
B.) Didn't watch Sunday's show

get used to it, she IS the real deal

someone get me the stats on how long it took Rutherford,Mears,Unser(s),Foyt,Sullivan,Sneva,Raha l to win their first races. sheeeesh people

[uncre8tv]

Part of the Danica issue is that people are saying "she's the real deal" meaning that she is a competent racer, on equal footing with any of the guys. The problem is when people like CARTDM15 misinterpret that. No one is saying that Danica is a proven winner, or that she's going to dominate the sport, just that she is qualified to be on the track and is capable of running up front. The rub is that she has become the IRL marketing equivalent of an MJ or Tiger Woods without the on-track dominance that those two brought to their sports. I don't blame her for cashing in, and I do think that she has done a good job of keeping her focus on racing, even with the media commitments she has. Sarah has never run as well as Danica, for whatever reason. Milka is just a sad joke in IRL so far (though one could argue Milka has more quality finishes in lesser series than Danica).

[CARTDM15]

"If anybody out there still doesn't think Danica Patrick is a racer, then they either know nothing about motorsports or didn't watch Sunday's show. She drove up to second place, made some awesome passes (one on Dan Wheldon was a beauty) in traffic and drove her best race of her three Indy 500 starts. Her result (eighth) did not reflect her drive."
- - Robin Miller (Speedtv.com) 05/30/07

This from Robin Miller, a guy known not to sugar coat things or is easily impressed.

Which category do you fall into CARTDM15???

A.) Know nothing about motorsports
B.) Didn't watch Sunday's show

get used to it, she IS the real deal

someone get me the stats on how long it took Rutherford,Mears,Unser(s),Foyt,Sullivan,Sneva,Raha l to win their first races. sheeeesh people

That's just one race my man.Buddy Rice won Indy and I don't here anybody hear calling him the real deal.A career is not made on one race in my book.She has not done anything special that any other driver haven't done.You look at the IRL there a eight cars that have a great chance at winning (4) ARG cars (2) Penske and (2) CG Racing.No other team has run consisetly in the top five.She is eight in points so what does that tell you.I have no problem with you loving Danica.But look at the numbers.Its not about the fact that she has not won yet.Winning that first race is hard.Maybe I don't understand your meaning of the "real deal".What do you call Lewis Hamilton? Now that guy is the real deal.

[indycool]

Well, at Milwaukee today, she started 17th, moved up to sixth (only two of those positions gained in the pits) and was passing for fifth when Wheldon knocked her out of the way. She saved the car, lost a lap, gained it back and through attrition of the Penske cars, etc., finished eighth. That's how she got to your disparaging "eighth" today.

[RGM Fan]

I think one reason Danica has a problem being taken seriously is because she throws very public temper tantrums that are often more newsworthy than the race she was involved in. Also I have a hard time respecting a driver who poses for Maxium and sells her sex appeal as much as her racing ability.

I watched the incident between her and Dan Wheldon and I have to say, pheonominal job on her part to save that car. She has skills. But, I think she is as much to blame, or more, than Wheldon was. She was in the middle of a three wide situation and I feel should have backed out since Wheldon was already pretty high on the track. But of course she blames it all on Wheldon and then wants to take revenge on him. That's completely unprofessional behavior and its hard to respect someone who lacks emotional maturity.

[CARTDM15]

Well, at Milwaukee today, she started 17th, moved up to sixth (only two of those positions gained in the pits) and was passing for fifth when Wheldon knocked her out of the way. She saved the car, lost a lap, gained it back and through attrition of the Penske cars, etc., finished eighth. That's how she got to your disparaging "eighth" today.

She did a great job today there is no denying that.So did Victor Meria for a weaker team....All I have seen from her is average results.Is that all you looking for out of some one you'll are call the "real deal".

[Sandfly]

I think one reason Danica has a problem being taken seriously is because she throws very public temper tantrums that are often more newsworthy than the race she was involved in. Also I have a hard time respecting a driver who poses for Maxium and sells her sex appeal as much as her racing ability.

I watched the incident between her and Dan Wheldon and I have to say, pheonominal job on her part to save that car. She has skills. But, I think she is as much to blame, or more, than Wheldon was. She was in the middle of a three wide situation and I feel should have backed out since Wheldon was already pretty high on the track. But of course she blames it all on Wheldon and then wants to take revenge on him. That's completely unprofessional behavior and its hard to respect someone who lacks emotional maturity.

You Sir, are correct. That was as much her fault as weldons. She calls in a chop but remember it was HER FRONT tire that hit wheldon. I call that a drove into him wreck. Give her credit for the save. Having a full downforce parchute on the back kelp straighten the thing out - but glad she didn't crash. Gave us a chance to hear her bitch and moan on the radio.

[indycool]

We could argue accident fault in that one for months.

She leads races, she generally qualifies well, she races people and, IMO, she's a racer. She hasn't gotten into any pit brawls, hasn't gotten suspended or put on probation or fined. She's gotten POed. I've seen and heard other racers get POed.

She's in a fishbowl because she's a pretty lady. But, like Lyn St. James used to say, "the car doesn't know whether it's a man or a woman driving it."

[45 Below]

At times she looks great and races very well. She is part of a strong team, she has shown she can do the fast laps and pass, but she never seems to do it for the whole race distance. Why? I don't know. Lack of application, lack of concentration?

[uncre8tv]

Why? I don't know. Lack of application, lack of concentration?
Guys knowing they can pull into her line and half the farking idiots out there will blame it on the girl anyway?

[Hoss Ghoul]

That wreck was not Danica's fault. She may have been able to avoid it-maybe-but it was not her fault.

It seemed to me that after she passed Franchitti he dove down to the inside and tried to repass. Because of this she was running a slightly higher line, if she had come down she'd have hit Dario. Wheldon could have held his line a bit wider, but did not, coming down and clipping Danica. There was ZERO reason for her to "back out" of that situation, if anything Dario should have given her more room on the inside. Basically it was a racing incident, but I would put the majority of the blame Wheldon and Dario.

[CARTDM15]

We could argue accident fault in that one for months.

She leads races, she generally qualifies well, she races people and, IMO, she's a racer. She hasn't gotten into any pit brawls, hasn't gotten suspended or put on probation or fined. She's gotten POed. I've seen and heard other racers get POed.

She's in a fishbowl because she's a pretty lady. But, like Lyn St. James used to say, "the car doesn't know whether it's a man or a woman driving it."

What races has she lead other than INDY.She only lead that because of the yellow she caused.Give me one podium finish before you call her the real deal.

[indycool]

Patrick led 32 laps at Motegi, 9 at Nashville, 19 at Indy, 1 at Chicagoland and 2 at Fontana in '05 and got three pole positions.

[DavePI2]

Well this is my first chance to reply to this thread since the race. Being it was my first 500 I had an incredable time, as did everyone else in grandstand a section 13. A special thanks to the three ladies sitting next to me, sharing their beer with a few of us around them.As for the rain, didn't bother me, amazing what happens in the grandstands when the rain hits. I certainly enjoyed the race. Enjoyed the show that Tony , Marco , and Danica put on. Too bad Tony didn't win, our section was all cheering for him. Danica is turning into a very good driver and Marco has his moments as well. Wheldon's pit was right accross from me plus I was close to Hornish, Dixon's, Helio's, Briscoes, Danica's , sharp and simmons and of course Kananns pit. All in all a great experience , I am definetley going back next year. You can see the entire race at other tracks, but there is only one Indy.

David

[LTalbot]

Bottom line: On ovals, Danica has no fear of the boys, and my guess is she will be on the podium with the big trophy soon. She has the stuff. Road courses may still be tough for her, but give the woman props for being a racer. I was never on the Danica bandwagon. She usually qualified well but went backwards in the races, but this is no longer the case.

As far as tantrums, the Tony Stewart NASCAR loving fan that IndyCar is going after eat that S**t up.

[turbo-engine]

I know it's a little late, but here are some of my Indy 500 vids. Sorry for the bad quality, but it's youtube's fault.
Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuisB1i8Q7Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67g8Vb_WYdU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIYPbP1BCLQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIC18RBU-R4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-MLShsCppU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFzQY__Rne0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz9mr3x85WU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4onkP8umaAs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyqBr1UQhms

It was my very first Indy 500 and I enjoyed every second of it. It was a very special day for me.....I'll never forget the fun I had. I hope the 500 will exist forever!

[indycool]

Watched a few of 'em, turbo.....you had some pretty good seats!

The "500" is something special to me, too, and I can even remember my first one as a kid. With me -- and I expect others -- it quickly became a tradition in May through three generations to go to Indy. I can't imagine being any place else during that time now.

[turbo-engine]

Thanks Indycool! Yeah, the seats were great. I wish I could make it a tradition, too, but I guess I don't have enough money to make that happen. I attended both German 500s, but the Indy 500 IS the best race in the world. When the race was on I didn't care about the split or whether CART races were better or not....it was all about the racing on May 27th and the racing was outstanding. I also love the sound and the look of the cars, even if many people find it/them very ugly.
If I'll ever have the chance of getting to Indy in May again......I'll be there.....

[indycool]

This has been quite a thread to follow with you coming from "across the pond" to take it in......enjoyed talking about it with you......