Kimi

[Crypt]

Of course, but the point is you don't actually learn when you think there is nothing more for you to learn.

Disclaimer: I am not a Kimi basher, and he is my second-best favourite driver on the grid. If I am critical of him, it's because he hasn't met many of his supporters' expectations.


You know, you are absolutely right. I guess I'm just trying to find some justification in all this. Trying to look on the brighter side of life ;)

*cue whislting from Monty Python players*

[Ian McC]

Of course, but the point is you don't actually learn when you think there is nothing more for you to learn.


So you're saying that Kimi thinks he can't learn anything more from driving the Ferrari?

[Crypt]

**My response above was to the disclaimer.

Ian McC makes a good point. I can hardly see how Kimi can think he has nothing more to learn, and just needs a fast car to win. If he does actually think that, eesh.

[ioan]

Oh Peleasssee - Kimi's the best driver on the whole course and you all know it.

Yeah, sure. depends on the definition of "the best" in ones vocabulary.


He just doesn't give a dam - about you, Ferrari, Mclaren, Ron, Alonzo, Massa, the track, the car, NOTHING.


He better leave than and let someone do the job professionally. :rolleyes:

[Ian McC]

He just doesn't give a dam - about you, Ferrari, Mclaren, Ron, Alonzo, Massa, the track, the car, NOTHING.


Is that supposed to be serious? I assume it isn't because if it is it's utter rubbish.

[ArrowsFA1]

The problem is everyone hyped him up as the one to dominate at Ferrari (both armchair critics like ourselves and the men in the know), destroy MS if he stayed and make Massa his lapdog if he raced against him. Now that it hasnt happened the excuses come out.

I really wish he was doing better cause then Ferrari would be doing better.
That's very fair comment. Kimi was certainly expected to walk into Ferrari and prove that all he had been lacking at McLaren was a reliable car. Well, he has a reliable car, but is not producing the level of performance everyone expected and Massa certainly has the upper hand in the team.

The longer that goes on the more questions there will be about Kimi.

[Shalafi]

That's very fair comment. Kimi was certainly expected to walk into Ferrari and prove that all he had been lacking at McLaren was a reliable car. Well, he has a reliable car, but is not producing the level of performance everyone expected and Massa certainly has the upper hand in the team.

The longer that goes on the more questions there will be about Kimi.

To be fair to Kimi, he didnt himself say that he will go to Ferrari and win easily. It was us fans and so called "experts" that said so. Yesterday speaking to Finnish television he said some interesting things. The car has improved and he will expect tight fight with Mclaren. But there are still couple of issues that affect his performance. But they know what those things are and they are improving them all the time. He also said that he hasnt lost his driving skills during the winter as everyone seem to think. There just are couple of things (you could read between the lines that this years Ferrari with different tyres just dont fit his natural driving style) but things are getting better and car is more and more where he wants it to be. He added thought, that they have not yet solved the starting problems completely, but he will do his utmost to get to the front row this time.

I personally think he is quite a frustrated because he cant drive the car how he wants and its taking so much time to make it more suitable to his strengths. Its important and encouraging though that they are improving so Kimi will get stronger (as Indys racepace already showed) as season goes on.

[ArrowsFA1]

To be fair to Kimi, he didnt himself say that he will go to Ferrari and win easily. It was us fans and so called "experts" that said so.
True, and hopefully in time the improvements at Ferrari will allow us to see the Kimi of old :up:

[ioan]

True, and hopefully in time the improvements at Ferrari will allow us to see the Kimi of old :up:

Car breaking apart! ;)

[leopard]

and neither I heard before a driver say himself being able to win easily driving a top car...not sure Alonso

[ArrowsFA1]

Car breaking apart! ;)
Doesn't happen to Ferrari's...does it :confused: :p

[jas123f1]

True, and hopefully in time the improvements at Ferrari will allow us to see the Kimi of old :up:

We can’t say that the car doesn’t be good and it has been it whole this year, but unfortunately McLaren has been even better - at any rate in the last 3 races, but there has now been some Ferrari improvements after USA and both Ferrari drivers are today more optimistic about their chances to win in France. Even if Kimi also admitted that despite that, the car can be even better suited for him in the future, because the way he is driving is a bit different (slightly more aggressive I think) if it’s compared to Massa.. today the car doesn’t allow him to push that much he should like to. But it seams however to me that Ferrari is on the right way today.. :)

[555-04Q2]

To be fair to Kimi, he didnt himself say that he will go to Ferrari and win easily.

:up: I agree with that.

[ioan]

Doesn't happen to Ferrari's...does it :confused: :p

Depends on the armco! :D

[555-04Q2]

Depends on the armco! :D

:laugh: :up: :laugh:

[Dave B]

True, and hopefully in time the improvements at Ferrari will allow us to see the Kimi of old :up:
Your wish is his command! A stonking start in France and a deserved win.

[veeten]

he needed it. this season has been the worst for him. :(

today was a ray of sunshine. :)

[Ian McC]

Indeed, well done Kimi, puts his qualifying into perspective with the extra fuel he ws carrying, great start, great result.

[janneppi]

Took bloody long enough, but he might be finally getting the best of the car's charasteristics, and the start system.
Good job.

[Viktory]

great drive from Kimi today!

[DonnieDarco]

Well done Kimi :D

[F1boat]

Great win. I am speechless and I hope that Kimi will continue to be so strong in following races!

[jas123f1]

Nice start! and drive of Kimi (and Massa too even if i think he shouldn’t afterwards complain of traffic - because that’s racing - everyone has same problems and saying that i had won if i had a clear track, it’s sounds for me as a bit childish) anyway – it was good to see that Ferrari has improved and hopefully it will continue in Silverstone next week. :)

[F1boat]

I hope so as well!!!

[jens]

It seems that now Räikkönen is pretty comfortable with the car and the Ferrari drivers are quite even as it has turned out. We might see some more interesting battles in the future. It would be an amazing comeback if Kimi can win the title from the current situation, although probably it's a bit early to talk about that!

[jas123f1]

It seems that now Räikkönen is pretty comfortable with the car and the Ferrari drivers are quite even as it has turned out. We might see some more interesting battles in the future. It would be an amazing comeback if Kimi can win the title from the current situation, although probably it's a bit early to talk about that!

Yes, the car looks good, but still Kimi is saying that it can be even better suited for him and i think he tell the truth. E.g. today he had a bit difficult to follow Massa in beginning of the race, which only partly can be explained with that Kimi had fuel for 3 laps more. Ferrari has new parts for the car in Silverstone and hopefully it make the car even better and better suited for Kimi.

[Eki]

I wish this was the turning point of the season for Kimi and Ferrari. The rest of the season may become interesting after all.

[Valve Bounce]

I wish this was the turning point of the season for Kimi and Ferrari. The rest of the season may become interesting after all.

Agreed!

[Shalafi]

Good work by Kimi! Ferrari looked really impressive this weekend. Its also very promising that Kimi can win without been perfectly comfortable with the car. And finally the start was great too. I just hope that Ferrari can build on this result and take couple of more 1-2 from next races. It only takes one DNF from Hamilton to make battle for WDC completely open.

[Big Ben]

He won despite not being completely comfortable with the car... I guess when he s comfortable with car he can win going backwards ... bla bla bla

[jas123f1]

It seems that now Räikkönen is pretty comfortable with the car and the Ferrari drivers are quite even as it has turned out. We might see some more interesting battles in the future. It would be an amazing comeback if Kimi can win the title from the current situation, although probably it's a bit early to talk about that!

Yes, the car looks good, but still Kimi is saying that it can be even better suited for him and i think he tell the truth. E.g. today he had a bit difficult to follow Massa in beginning of the race, which only partly can be explained with that Kimi had fuel for 3 laps more. Ferrari has new parts for the car in Silverstone and hopefully it make the car even better and better suited for Kimi.

[Roamy]

I like this while too early to tell it may just validate the fact that it takes time to adjust to a new team. I think the technology is go intense that one can not properly get the best results right off, Especially is their driving style is quite different from their teammmate. We will see if this is just a one off for Kimi but I seem to doubt it. I think Massa has a prounounced driving style and Ferrari was working on that while Kimi had to develop his own baseline.

But great result to the race and great season.

[Shalafi]

He won despite not being completely comfortable with the car... I guess when he s comfortable with car he can win going backwards ... bla bla bla

No, but he might start to beat Massa in qualifying more often. If "being comfortable" with the car makes 0,1-0,2 seconds per lap, it makes a big difference in the end when drivers are this evenly matched.

[Ian McC]

No, but he might start to beat Massa in qualifying more often. If "being comfortable" with the car makes 0,1-0,2 seconds per lap, it makes a big difference in the end when drivers are this evenly matched.

The fact that he went four laps longer certainly suggests that.

[Jefe Máximo]

:)

Go Rakka.

;)

[veeten]

:)

Go Rakka.

;)

:s hock: Hey, you! Where you been hiding?! :D
Good to see you around. :)

[Jefe Máximo]

Hey vee. ;)

Here and there mate, it's been a slightly busy year so far.

Doing fine I hope? :)

[veeten]

so long as you're bringing home steady cash, busy is good. :) :up:

[osg]

Phew....that is all. Outstanding race Kimi.

[race aficionado]

Yes! Good for Kimi and good for F1.
We need him battlling in the front.

Bring on Silverstone.


:s mokin:

[ShiftingGears]

Congratulations Kimi! I hope I see you on the top step a lot more this season :D

[stevie_gerrard]

Great to see kimi performing for ferrari, just the race he needed, hopefully we got a tight championship on our hands now. Another win like that in Britain and its all to play for. :up:

[hugh_lee]

congratulations to kimi, but he needs to do better. massa was delayed by backmarkers during kimi's pitstop. he was 22+ seconds behind before kimi pitted and the fastest pitstop (honda) was 24+ seconds. massa's overall pace was quicker than kimi majority of the race.

p.s. i'm not a ferrari nor a big massa fan. just felt sorry for massa who must've have lost some sleep last night. oh, and i still think kimi is one of the best there is

[janneppi]

I don't think Massa was quicker over all, as the results showed. ;)
Kimi qualified 0.2 secs behind with a slghtly heavier car, which gave him three laps adwantage in the first stint(mind you he had backmarkers slowing him down as well) was 0.6 quicker in the pits.

Second stint they ran pretty much the same pace until, Massa again pitted three laps earlier than Kimi.
Those three laps and 1.4 seconds longer pit time gave Kimi the lead.

[ioan]

Second stint they ran pretty much the same pace until, Massa again pitted three laps earlier than Kimi.
Those three laps and 1.4 seconds longer pit time gave Kimi the lead.

As others said, if it wasn't for some backmarkers keeping Massa from running at his pace Kimi wouldn't have been in front.

Credit to Kimi, he was up there to take advantage of Felipe's misfortune after his last stop, but he didn't out pace him.

A good weekend end for Ferrari, let's hope a 1-2 is in cards for Silverstone too. Also good news to see McLaren hitting troubles, it means they are at the limit of their mechanical development!

[janneppi]

And had Kimi not been slowed down by backmarkers in the first stint, he could have been in front after the first stop. ;)

[leopard]

...
massa's overall pace was quicker than kimi majority of the race.

p.s. i'm not a ferrari nor a big massa fan. just felt sorry for massa who must've have lost some sleep last night. oh, and i still think kimi is one of the best there is
just one of, I can't see the less quick is also the best happens :)

after all, congrats Kimi

[ioan]

And had Kimi not been slowed down by backmarkers in the first stint, he could have been in front after the first stop. ;)

Ah, luckily you used that smiley, otherwise I would have thought you were serious!
Seriously before and right after the first stop they both dealt with the same number of backmarkers, not before and after the 2nd one though.

As I said, though, Kimi did well to be that close to Felipe so he could take profit of his misfortune.
I'm really happy that he started performing a bit better and Ferrari have again 2 capable drivers to kick McLaren's a$$.

[janneppi]

Ah, luckily you used that smiley, otherwise I would have thought you were serious!
Seriously before and right after the first stop they both dealt with the same number of backmarkers, not before and after the 2nd one though.


Out of curiocity, who did Massa have to lap in the three laps after his second stint, there was a group of cars that were in front of him as Kimi came out of the pits, but they were too far ahead to count for the missing seconds.

To me, it almost sounds as if Massa couldn't accept being slower Ferrari of the two in the race and came up with an exaggerated reason for his misfortune. ;)

[ioan]

Out of curiocity, who did Massa have to lap in the three laps after his second stint, there was a group of cars that were in front of him as Kimi came out of the pits, but they were too far ahead to count for the missing seconds.

The group of 4 cars was in front of Massa when he exited the pits and they hold him up for those few laps when he should have protected his lead as he did after his 1st stop.

You'll find the race on youtube in a few days and you'll be able to review what happened.


To me, it almost sounds as if Massa couldn't accept being slower Ferrari of the two in the race and came up with an exaggerated reason for his misfortune. ;)

I won't comment on biased views and baiting! ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

The group of 4 cars was in front of Massa when he exited the pits and they hold him up for those few laps when he should have protected his lead as he did after his 1st stop.
But they were slower cars. What was the problem :confused: ;)

[Valve Bounce]

Maybe they didn't wave enough blue flags.

[ioan]

But they were slower cars. What was the problem :confused: ;)

Yeah yeah I know! ;)

[hugh_lee]

Out of curiocity, who did Massa have to lap in the three laps after his second stint, there was a group of cars that were in front of him as Kimi came out of the pits, but they were too far ahead to count for the missing seconds.

To me, it almost sounds as if Massa couldn't accept being slower Ferrari of the two in the race and came up with an exaggerated reason for his misfortune. ;)

there were three cars who were engaged in their own battle for position and were probably too busy to notice the blue flags (or maybe they did, they just chose to ignore). not sure who exactly they were, but i'm pretty sure trulli wasn't one of them..but then again...

massa had the fastest lap of the race, if not for them backmarkers, he should have kept his lead of 2 seconds more or less. as i remember, he was behind by about 22 sec couple of laps before kimi pitted, and the fastest pitstop then was more than 24 seconds

[jas123f1]

there were three cars who were engaged in their own battle for position and were probably too busy to notice the blue flags (or maybe they did, they just chose to ignore). not sure who exactly they were, but i'm pretty sure trulli wasn't one of them..but then again...

massa had the fastest lap of the race, if not for them backmarkers, he should have kept his lead of 2 seconds more or less. as i remember, he was behind by about 22 sec couple of laps before kimi pitted, and the fastest pitstop then was more than 24 seconds

Massas made his fastest lap time so far when he had 29 laps left and his lead to Kimi were 3,5 seconds before his last pitstop.

Lap 43
Massa: lap time 1.17,664
Kimi lap time 1.16,300,

Lap 44
Massa in the pit: total time 1.39,910
Kimi 1.16,262

Lap 45
Massa 1.18,149
Kimi 1.17,985

Lap 46
Massa 1.17,608
Kimi in the pit: total time 1.39,173

That means that Kimi was 5.254 sec. faster during laps 43 to 46 and Kimi came out from the pit one to two second front of him.

When Massa came out from the pit, the distance to the closest car in front of him was 200 > 300 hundred meter. How much that made in reality for his speed can be questioned. However if Massa thinks that he is some way treated unfairly compared to Kimi, he should take a pause and ponder on the fact that Kimi was driving exactly in same conditions – only 2 second behind him until the second pitstop.

http://www.worldmotorsport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1021&stc=1&d=1183391144

[ioan]

Massas made his fastest lap time so far when he had 29 laps left and his lead to Kimi were 3,5 seconds before his last pitstop.

Lap 43
Massa: lap time 1.17,664
Kimi lap time 1.16,300,

Lap 44
Massa in the pit: total time 1.39,910
Kimi 1.16,262

Lap 45
Massa 1.18,149
Kimi 1.17,985

Lap 46
Massa 1.17,608
Kimi in the pit: total time 1.39,173

That means that Kimi was 5.254 sec. faster during laps 43 to 46 and Kimi came out from the pit one to two second front of him.


Not sure about the maths there. Where did you get those 5,254 seconds from?

At last the worlds highest paid driver got the result the worlds highest paid driver should get.

Seems me starting this thread did the trick.

[jas123f1]

Not sure about the maths there. Where did you get those 5,254 seconds from?

lap 43: Kimi was faster 1,364
lap 44: Kimi was faster 23,648
lap 45: Kimi was faster 1,909

lap 46: Massa was faster 0,377
lap 47: Massa again 21,290

Massa 1,364+23,648+1,909= 26,921
Kimi 0,377+21,290=21,667

Massa 26.921 - Kimi 21667=5.254

:) That's it

[janneppi]

I think i managed to find some accurate numbers*
---------gap
Lap 42 M_3.39_R
Lap 43 M_2.03_R
Lap 44 R_21.6_M(25.4 Massa's pit time)
Lap 45 R_23.5_M
Lap 46 R_23.1_M(24.1 Kimi's pit time)
Lap 47 R_1.8__M

Kimi gained 1.3 secs in lap 43 compared to Massa gaining 0.4 in lap 46
How much is due to Kimi having a light car compared to Massa having a heavy car versus Massa being behing someone is anyone's guess, surely it has to affect.

Massa had to suffer a heavy car after his pit stop in lap 44 compared to Kimi driving a second fast lap in a row, 1:16.26, where as Kimi didn't have that effect because he pitted later

Again lap 45, Kimi drove a 1:16.25, light car
Massa 1.18.16, heavy car
1.9 secs to Kimi

And let's not forget 1+ secs pit time Massa was longer than Kimi.

Massa was propably hindered by not geeting past who ever was ahead of him, i'm not convinced he would been ahead. :)
(Numbers may vary since i took them from a news site.)


Damn you jas123f1 :p :

[jas123f1]

I think i managed to find some accurate numbers*
---------gap
Lap 42 M_3.39_R
Lap 43 M_2.03_R
Lap 44 R_21.6_M(25.4 Massa's pit time)
Lap 45 R_23.5_M
Lap 46 R_23.1_M(24.1 Kimi's pit time)
Lap 47 R_1.8__M

Kimi gained 1.3 secs in lap 43 compared to Massa gaining 0.4 in lap 46
How much is due to Kimi having a light car compared to Massa having a heavy car versus Massa being behing someone is anyone's guess, surely it has to affect.

Massa had to suffer a heavy car after his pit stop in lap 44 compared to Kimi driving a second fast lap in a row, 1:16.26, where as Kimi didn't have that effect because he pitted later

Again lap 45, Kimi drove a 1:16.25, light car
Massa 1.18.16, heavy car
1.9 secs to Kimi

And let's not forget 1+ secs pit time Massa was longer than Kimi.

Massa was propably hindered by not geeting past who ever was ahead of him, i'm not convinced he would been ahead. :)
(Numbers may vary since i took them from a news site.)


Damn you jas123f1 :p :

Sure, Massa was in lead 3,5 sec lap 43 but 1,6 sec after when Kimi drowe out from his pitstop. I think someone from the pit said to him that it's time to wake up ;)

[555-04Q2]

At last the worlds highest paid driver got the result the worlds highest paid driver should get.

Doesn't Ralf Schumacher earn more than Kimi :?:

[ioan]

Doesn't Ralf Schumacher earn more than Kimi :?:

No. Even FA earns more than Ralf. ;)

[Dzeidzei]

No. Even FA earns more than Ralf. ;)

Why do people make fun of Ralf? He´s salary is correct and reflects his skills as a racing driver.







The only thing wrong about his salary is the currency. Instead of euros or dollars its should be in escudos.




:)

[MrPonx]

sorry to go off-topic: what is Kimi's official website?

didn't want to create a new thread for that

thanks

[Valve Bounce]

Have you tried google?

[MrPonx]

yeps, but non of them looked official to me!

got this one http://www.kimiraikkonen.com/ which is retarded imo

[leopard]

Sure, Massa was in lead 3,5 sec lap 43 but 1,6 sec after when Kimi drowe out from his pitstop. I think someone from the pit said to him that it's time to wake up ;)

No they don't ask him to wake up, but to pick up some (more) rubber ;)

[MrPonx]

No they don't ask him to wake up, but to pick up some (more) rubber ;)


I see what you did there :P

with all honesty I think Massa was faster, but Kimi's strategy was flawless. Maybe his team asked him to pit coz they knew that Massa is stuck behind traffic and that would increase the chances to leave the pit in front.

pure strategy is what led Kimi to win, whether if it was backed up by luck or not, it surely wasn't his speed that gave him the edge over Massa

[leopard]

I see what you did there :P

with all honesty I think Massa was faster, but Kimi's strategy was flawless.

And the longer Massa's time in pit-stop was flawless strategy also for the team ;)

[Valve Bounce]

I see what you did there :P

with all honesty I think Massa was faster, but Kimi's strategy was flawless. Maybe his team asked him to pit coz they knew that Massa is stuck behind traffic and that would increase the chances to leave the pit in front.

pure strategy is what led Kimi to win, whether if it was backed up by luck or not, it surely wasn't his speed that gave him the edge over Massa

I followed the race on "Live Timing" instead of watching the delayed telecast; and I don't think Massa was faster. I felt that Kimi was keeping at a respectable distance intil he was told by his race engineer to push, when suddenly his lap time dropped and the gap reduced to well under 2 seconds.
Personally, I think that Kimi is the better driver of the two, but then I always liked Kimi.
My impression is that if Massa started behind Kimi in a race, there is no way he'd win the race once Kimi was in control. In fact, when Kimi came out ahead of Massa after that pitstop, the comment from Live Timing was that Kimi was not in control and he'd win the race. Which he did.

[Dzeidzei]

I followed the race on "Live Timing" instead of watching the delayed telecast; and I don't think Massa was faster. I felt that Kimi was keeping at a respectable distance intil he was told by his race engineer to push, when suddenly his lap time dropped and the gap reduced to well under 2 seconds.
Personally, I think that Kimi is the better driver of the two, but then I always liked Kimi.
My impression is that if Massa started behind Kimi in a race, there is no way he'd win the race once Kimi was in control. In fact, when Kimi came out ahead of Massa after that pitstop, the comment from Live Timing was that Kimi was not in control and he'd win the race. Which he did.

According to Massa Kimi won only because of good luck. He was lucky to be 1st out in Q3 as he could pull one more lap than the rest. A lap more fuel added, he says. He was lucky with the traffic also.

I do have to agree with VB here. Kimi did the extra fast laps when it was needed. Tight races have always been won this way, just remember all the countless times Schumi did it.

Massa still has to proove that he´s able to come from behind and win races. I think he´s capable of doing that but he needs to proove his worth. Guys like Alonso and Kimi have prooved themselves already.

Looking forward to an exciting Silverstone. How will Lewis handle the immense pressure? He hasnt really made anymistakes yet....

[janneppi]

While i've always kind of liked Massa, this is getting tad ridculous.
From his blog
http://www.felipemassa.com/index2.php?lang=uk&go=news%2Fnewsdetail.php%3Fid%3D495


Everything worked perfectly that afternoon, except that, at the key moment in the race I was not very lucky and last Sunday, Kimi had all the lucky points in his hands. That’s the way it goes sometimes. In qualifying he gained an extra lap being the first man out, then at the start of the race he was lucky to pass Hamilton and then he was lucky I got stuck in traffic. That is why I could not win the race, but apart from that I was quickest all weekend, taking pole position and the fastest lap in the race.Blaming traffic i can understand, saying Kimi's pass at hamilton and his good quali driving was luck, is beyond my understanding.
What next, a tennis accident and a move to Nascar? :D

[Valve Bounce]

Blaming Alonso for holding him up in quals last year was really pathetic, and I stopped liking the guy - just a bloody whinger and blaming everone else if he loses. Must be some Pommie background in his ancestry somewhere. :p :

[leopard]

Blaming traffic i can understand, saying Kimi's pass at hamilton and his good quali driving was luck, is beyond my understanding.
What next, a tennis accident and a move to Nascar? :D
Saying that was much better than blaming the pit crew and the team was doing their job badly, it's polite :up:

[janneppi]

So it's polite to basically to rubbish your team mate?

[leopard]

In fact, when Kimi came out ahead of Massa after that pitstop, the comment from Live Timing was that Kimi was not in control and he'd win the race. Which he did.

Their more proportional comment I believe will deliver the better output for the two ferraris, Massa let alone Kimi. That saying will put rates on him more than it should and no brighter side of it but only give him pressure. He won Magny Cours ordinarily and wasn't convincing, let alone not in control

[Valve Bounce]

the comment from Live Timing was that Kimi was NOW in control and he'd win the race. Which he did.


My stupid mistake - I meant NOW and not "not". That changes the whole meaning of what I was saying. DUH!! :(

[Valve Bounce]

Their more proportional comment I believe will deliver the better output for the two ferraris, Massa let alone Kimi. That saying will put rates on him more than it should and no brighter side of it but only give him pressure. He won Magny Cours ordinarily and wasn't convincing, let alone not in control


Sorry!! :(

[leopard]

No rubbish the teammate at all,
Hamilton was the key, in case he could stand his second position in more laps, Massa should have left him (them) away behind.

That's the point of being polite, not telling the truth if need be.

[leopard]

My stupid mistake - I meant NOW and not "not". That changes the whole meaning of what I was saying. DUH!! :(
'Not in control' usually means unstoppable, I think they refer to that because 'now in control' didn't make any sense on it, but it's ok if it should be read as 'now' :)

[leopard]

My stupid mistake - I meant NOW and not "not". That changes the whole meaning of what I was saying. DUH!! :(
Now in control sounds more acceptable for the race leader :)

lol I've got to go

[MrPonx]

I followed the race on "Live Timing" instead of watching the delayed telecast; and I don't think Massa was faster. I felt that Kimi was keeping at a respectable distance intil he was told by his race engineer to push, when suddenly his lap time dropped and the gap reduced to well under 2 seconds.
Personally, I think that Kimi is the better driver of the two, but then I always liked Kimi.
My impression is that if Massa started behind Kimi in a race, there is no way he'd win the race once Kimi was in control. In fact, when Kimi came out ahead of Massa after that pitstop, the comment from Live Timing was that Kimi was not in control and he'd win the race. Which he did.


I couldn't be happier if this is true, I'm a kimi fan all the way.. I know he's more stable than Massa, it's just surprising me how Massa is faster than Kimi most of the race, but again Kimi is going for a win, and not trying to show off.

and I agree with the poster above that Massa is a whiner I don't like him, attacking a team-mate like this is uncalled for

[herra47]

he needed it. this season has been the worst for him. :(

today was a ray of sunshine. :)

But he needs to be quicker than Massa. This time he was just lucky to win:



"Everything worked perfectly that afternoon, except that, at the key moment in the race I was not very lucky and last Sunday, Kimi had all the lucky points in his hands," Massa continued. "That's the way it goes sometimes."

"In qualifying he gained an extra lap being the first man out, then at the start of the race he was lucky to pass Hamilton and then he was lucky I got stuck in traffic. That is why I could not win the race, but apart from that I was quickest all weekend, taking pole position and the fastest lap in the race. Unfortunately, luck was not on my side..."

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/04072007/13/raikkonen-win-lucky-according-massa.html

[ArrowsFA1]

"Unfortunately, luck was not on my side..."
Luck, or a whole bunch of excuses?

[Valve Bounce]

Luck, or a whole bunch of excuses?

Yeah!! :up:

[jas123f1]

While i've always kind of liked Massa, this is getting tad ridculous.
From his blog
http://www.felipemassa.com/index2.php?lang=uk&go=news%2Fnewsdetail.php%3Fid%3D495

Blaming traffic i can understand, saying Kimi's pass at hamilton and his good quali driving was luck, is beyond my understanding.
What next, a tennis accident and a move to Nascar? :D


I don’t understand either what Massa is doing when he is writing b*** s*** on his own website? Maybe he thinks he is a new Schumacher – i don’t know? However to call Kimis win to some kind of “lucky shot”, is unnecessary rubbish of him and very few agreed with him..

Possible Massa is getting a bit nervous because it really looks that “the iceman” is getting more familiar with the team and the car as well - and the car is developing in right direction for him at the moment … I think the turning point for Kimi was all ready in Canada and definitely in USA there Kimi made the fastest lap and was pushing in the end of the race very hard.. but that time Massa was able to keep his podium place although Kimi was the faster car .. and that time Massas comment was “ it was only to keep him (Kimi) behind”, that means “close the door” (and it’s absolutely ok to do so) and Kimi accepted the fact – he didn’t say “Massa was lucky”..
---------
But, of cause, every one can agree that Kimi wasn’t either unlucky this time, however i would like to say that it was race strategy (which was fair against Massa too) which was giving a possible win to Kimi, but only if every one in his team was working very well and without any mistakes – that was the key point – not anything other.

Kimi had to make a good start (which he did) and don’t allow Massa to take too big lead to get a change to pass him during a pitstop.

Massa was able to make a cap – but I’m sure it wasn’t that big he wanted it to be. He had 5 secs before the first pitstop and only 3,5 before the second.
Massa doesn’t like to agree the fact that Kimi was driving closer to him after the first pitstop, only 2, 3 secs behind, before Massa made his best lap so far and was able to extend the lead to 3,5 before his second pitstop – which then turned out to be a too short time. ..

The strategy for Kimi was (as every one understands) that Kimi had fuel to 3 laps more than Massa and together with Kimis good start it really was the only reason (and the only chance as well) to get the win, a good start and to be able to stay 3 laps more on the track. Maybe Kimi also tried to save fuel when he was driving behind Massa, however he was pushing with everything he had, first when the time was right..

Kimis win really wasn’t only luck; it was a good work of whole his team and a nice example of a successful teamwork. :up:

[larantuka]

[quote="herra47"]But he needs to be quicker than Massa. This time he was just lucky to win:

Kimi was the unluckiest man throughout his career in McLaren and now he is the lucky man, how to explaine this :confused:

[Valve Bounce]

But he needs to be quicker than Massa. This time he was just lucky to win:

Kimi was the unluckiest man throughout his career in McLaren and now he is the lucky man, how to explaine this :confused:

Nothing to do with luck,; The Iceman was quicker when it mattered. He was only 1.6 seconds behind Massa at the second round of stops, and he had 3 laps to make up the difference - no problemo!!

Get used to it Massa - you are going to be left behind The Iceman from now on.

[larantuka]

Before entering pitstop Massa took the lead, how did they close each other, was it massa driving slower or was kimi getting faster?

[herra47]

Nothing to do with luck,; The Iceman was quicker when it mattered. He was only 1.6 seconds behind Massa at the second round of stops, and he had 3 laps to make up the difference - no problemo!!

Get used to it Massa - you are going to be left behind The Iceman from now on.

I think Iceman will qualify 4th again in next race, if ferrari doesn't change his strategy.. It seems he's always few laps heavier than Massa. He will get bad start because he's heavier and starts from the dirty side of the track. Heikki and Kubica will pass him at the start. We will see..


Alonsos bad luck made Kimi look good this time.

[ioan]

So it's polite to basically to rubbish your team mate?

Rubbish him? I didn't see Felipe call Kimi a "vodka sponge" yet! :p :

[leopard]

Alonsos bad luck made Kimi look good this time.

Maybe, both of them certainly have less point then their teammate.

[SGWilko]

Blaming Alonso for holding him up in quals last year was really pathetic, and I stopped liking the guy - just a bloody whinger and blaming everone else if he loses. Must be some Pommie background in his ancestry somewhere. :p :

Easy tiger!! We are not ALL whingeing pomms you know. Some of the more austere prefer to moan!!!

[Valve Bounce]

I think Iceman will qualify 4th again in next race, if ferrari doesn't change his strategy.. It seems he's always few laps heavier than Massa. He will get bad start because he's heavier and starts from the dirty side of the track. Heikki and Kubica will pass him at the start. We will see..


Alonsos bad luck made Kimi look good this time.

If you want to bet your sig on this, I'm in. If you are right, you can name what you want me to put on my sig. If not, You have to put"The Ice Man Rules" on your sig. Do you agree?

[Valve Bounce]

Easy tiger!! We are not ALL whingeing pomms you know. Some of the more austere prefer to moan!!!

I know - my sis is a Pom and married to a Pom and has a family there. This is just good natured ribbing :p :

[herra47]

If you want to bet your sig on this, I'm in. If you are right, you can name what you want me to put on my sig. If not, You have to put"The Ice Man Rules" on your sig. Do you agree?

Ok. This time Kimi won't be lucky. He qualifies 4th, loses 1 place or more in the start and finishes behind Massa. Yes I can bet my sig on this :)

You can put on your sig: Massa 4ver!!

[wedge]

Interesting analysis here:

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=General&PO_ID=39911

[ioan]

Interesting analysis here:

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=General&PO_ID=39911

If you ask me they are pretty biased.
We should count how many times they topped the other one in all the practice and qualifying sessions up to now, and we'll get a clearer view than what they have in that article when they came to the conclusion that it 3:2 in Kimi's favor in terms of speed.

[janneppi]

If you ask me they are pretty biased.
We should count how many times they topped the other one in all the practice and qualifying sessions up to now, and we'll get a clearer view than what they have in that article when they came to the conclusion that it 3:2 in Kimi's favor in terms of speed.

Free practices are 13-11 in Kimi's favour.
Qualifyings are 13-7 in Massa's favour(both have missed two quali sessions)
Massa has been faster in most Q3's and running with less fuel in most.

Kimi's early season was bad in comparison, after Monaco they've been pretty equal in setting faster times.

[MrPonx]

Ok. This time Kimi won't be lucky. He qualifies 4th, loses 1 place or more in the start and finishes behind Massa. Yes I can bet my sig on this :)

You can put on your sig: Massa 4ver!!

Can I be part of this bet?

I bet Kimi will be first and LH won't step on the podium :D

[hugh_lee]

Before entering pitstop Massa took the lead, how did they close each other, was it massa driving slower or was kimi getting faster?

massa being held up. so maybe kimi didn't get lucky, but massa certainly was unlucky

[jas123f1]

If you ask me they are pretty biased.
We should count how many times they topped the other one in all the practice and qualifying sessions up to now, and we'll get a clearer view than what they have in that article when they came to the conclusion that it 3:2 in Kimi's favor in terms of speed.

I agree (almost) with you, when looking on the season, let’s say until Monaco, Massa has been the faster of them, but from Canada and definitely from USA the differences has disappeared and today I’m not sure who is the faster of them. I think it’s more or less fifty-fifty today.
But i wouldn’t be too much surprised if Kimi will be the faster of them in the future. However i think that the time is working for him – because it’s easier to find reasons to his lack of performance than Massas, who has been working at Ferrari so many years. For example - when thinking Kimi, mayby a bit more silent than an italian is used to keep company with :) and all people in a the team or Brigestone tyres (the changes from Michelin looks be more difficult for all drivers than no one understood last year when the decision was taken) and new car, new team mate .. to work with.. :)

Kimi has so many things to work with on and put together and seeing that he already is as fast as Massa (however in my mind) I think it’s a good reason to wait that he will be even faster than Massa in the future.

Kimi has won 2 races this season it's a good result .. but i think he will win some more.. and why not in Silverstone on Sunday .. :)

[leopard]

Kimi has so many things to work with on and put together and seeing that he already is as fast as Massa (however in my mind) I think it’s a good reason to wait that he will be even faster than Massa in the future.

Kimi has won 2 races this season it's a good result .. but i think he will win some more.. and why not in Silverstone on Sunday .. :)
You bet, as long as Ferrari can keep the pace and put their two drivers as 1-2 pole setter, or they have good start and lead the race. ;)

[ioan]

Free practices are 13-11 in Kimi's favour.
Qualifyings are 13-7 in Massa's favour(both have missed two quali sessions)
Massa has been faster in most Q3's and running with less fuel in most.

Kimi's early season was bad in comparison, after Monaco they've been pretty equal in setting faster times.

Good job, obviously objective so it's clear you can't be a journalist! ;)

[Flat.tyres]

Interesting analysis here:

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=General&PO_ID=39911

i tend to agree with this summary.

Kimi is not suddenly a crap driver and has suffered from what I would call lapses of concentration. i dont know whats going through his mind but he's not as focused as i expected him to be at Ferrari. both drivers have made mistakes that have cost them and this is what I think is the difference between the ferrari and maccas.

the signs are that Ferrari as a team seem to be coming out of this lull that is the after effect of the Schumacher era. the signs are also that Kimi is starting to get his sh*t together and getting mor in tune with the job in hand. If that happens, McLaren need to be right on their game because that Ferrari package looks like the strongest out there to me if it all works together.

[jens]

When team-mate battles are tight and tense, then there are a lot of opinions, suspicions and debates. I'm enjoying that battle. :p :

[Ian McC]

Pole for Kimi after two race wins, we are finally seeing what we expected to see from the start of the season

[Jefe Máximo]

Alonso was on cue to beat him though, which I would imagine means he's a lot lighter on fuel.

Expect tomorrow to be another 'strategic' battle. :dozey:

[Shalafi]

If Kimi keeps his position in the start, he should win the race. Now he really has a chance to close the gap to Hamilton.

[Eki]

KIMMI!!!

http://home.tiscali.nl/marcosch/overig/timmy.jpg

[race aficionado]

KIMMI!!!



Hey Eki! You must be feeling pretty cool right now with your man Kimi doing good.
I'm also glad he is doing well - And it continues to get more exciting as the season rolls.

Go Kimmi!


:s mokin:

[Eki]

Hey Eki! You must be feeling pretty cool right now with your man Kimi doing good.
I'm also glad he is doing well - And it continues to get more exciting as the season rolls.

Go Kimmi!


:s mokin:
Yes, race. The season looked pretty flat just few races ago, but it seems to be getting more interesting. It was a shame what happened to Lewis Hamilton today, but that's F1 for you, Kimi has had his share of bad luck too.

[tinchote]

Alonso was on cue to beat him though, which I would imagine means he's a lot lighter on fuel.

Expect tomorrow to be another 'strategic' battle. :dozey:

Hey, my favourite Ferrari fan is here! ;) :p :

[donKey jote]

Alonso was on cue to beat him though, which I would imagine means he's a lot lighter on fuel.

Expect tomorrow to be another 'strategic' battle. :dozey:


hey chief :wave: :D

[Jefe Máximo]

Hey, my favourite Ferrari fan is here! ;) :p :


Shhh...don't tell anyone.

:uhoh:

;)

[jens]

I remember that last year one of my arguments in comparing Kimi and Felipe was that in their debut season they lost to team-mate Heidfeld by a similar margin, which should create a close battle at Ferrari. Now this argument is proving to be valid... at least in dry conditions. :)

Massa has been too long an underrated driver and has not been mentioned as a genuine and worthy championship contender. He is not quite great in the wet, but in other areas I can see no problems, why he shouldn't be able to beat anyone. It's about time, when people should stop saying that "Kimi is not fully happy with the car and if he is, he would destroy Felipe."

[janneppi]

Kimi is pretty much out of the competition now, only a miracle will help him now.

[donKey jote]

a miracle, or Massa :D

[jens]

Kimi is pretty much out of the competition now, only a miracle will help him now.

A bit radical if your text wasn't meant as irony.
After British GP many people said that now Kimi is the title favourite and now the mind has changed so quickly? But now he is not that much behind the leader in the points (actually by the same gap as before the race) and in such tight competiton anything can happen. Also if FIA decides to penalyze McLarens...

[janneppi]

A bit radical if your text wasn't meant as irony.
After British GP many people said that now Kimi is the title favourite and now the mind has changed so quickly? But now he is not that much behind the leader in the points (actually by the same gap as before the race) and in such tight competiton anything can happen. Also if FIA decides to penalyze McLarens...
Kimi is now
18 behind Lewis
16 behind Alonso
7 behind Massa

With seven races left, he needs Alonso and Lewis to both DNF even to to get close and beat Massa four times in a row to get ahead, I'd say the future is gloom with the sort of reliability Ferrari can offer these days.

[Shalafi]

Kimi is now
18 behind Lewis
16 behind Alonso
7 behind Massa

With seven races left, he needs Alonso and Lewis to both DNF even to to get close and beat Massa four times in a row to get ahead, I'd say the future is gloom with the sort of reliability Ferrari can offer these days.

Yes, Kimi+Ferrari is quickest combination now, but sadly its not enough. Todays result was a disaster for him. He needs a lot of luck now. So it looks very difficult.

[fasttrakker55]

All Kimi can do now is prove he's No.1 in Ferrari by beating Massa in the WDC. His title hopes are all but over. :(

[andreag]

Did anyone realize every time Michael is on the pit for the entire race, Kimi has problems; it happened in Spain, Monaco and Nurburgring. In the last two races, Michael was in the track just for the first laps, but he left the circuit before the end of the race. He didn't attend the first three races also.

So wait to see if Michael stay for the entire race in Hungaroring, and Kimi's chances to win will dissapear.

[F1MAN2007]

Did anyone realize every time Michael is on the pit for the entire race, Kimi has problems; it happened in Spain, Monaco and Nurburgring. In the last two races, Michael was in the track just for the first laps, but he left the circuit before the end of the race. He didn't attend the first three races also.

So wait to see if Michael stay for the entire race in Hungaroring, and Kimi's chances to win will dissapear.


Already rumours are saying that MS told Kimmi to race one lap more while he was running out of fuel and couldn't complete that lap?!

[donKey jote]

LINK PLEASE !!! (c) :bounce:

[F1MAN2007]

LINK PLEASE !!! (c) :bounce:

"the last thing Kimi heard on the radio was a muffled voice which he couldn't recognize but obeyed anyway(MS got ahold of the radio transmission microphone) and he says to Kimi: go on Kimi you still have enough fuel for one more lap!" :D


http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119595

[jso1985]

so MS would make a terrible team boss!
like Lauda or Prost, great drivers are the same anywhere :p :

[Woodeye]

This is how to spend evening in privacy with some friends in public poker tournament in Kimi -style. :D

http://www.iltalehti.fi/viihde/200707296407828_vi.shtml

[ShiftingGears]

Kimi is now
18 behind Lewis
16 behind Alonso
7 behind Massa

With seven races left, he needs Alonso and Lewis to both DNF even to to get close and beat Massa four times in a row to get ahead, I'd say the future is gloom with the sort of reliability Ferrari can offer these days.

It isn't looking very good for Kimi, especially since the Hungaroring is almost certainly going to favour the McLarens.

[F1woman]

Kimi need to dance and sing while driving

[CCFanatic]

Kimi need to dance and sing while driving


No, you need to give Kimi some booz after the race(real booz, not champaign). Make him more lively. Itisboringlisteningtokimitalklikethis.

[jas123f1]

No, you need to give Kimi some booz after the race(real booz, not champaign). Make him more lively. Itisboringlisteningtokimitalklikethis.

Ithinkitsonlyhisfinnishpronunciation.. ..
Maybehecanspeakitaliannextseason :)

[MontoyaRules]

is either two thins with Kimi

Shumi pushes the magic destroy second ferrari button or
Kimi is indeed a car breaker.

[jjanicke]

is either two thins with Kimi

Shumi pushes the magic destroy second ferrari button or
Kimi is indeed a car breaker.

Given that 1/3rd of the "retired" cars at the Euro GP were due to mechanicals, which very much was somehow related to the adverse weather conditions, and the fact that Masa has equalled Kimi's mechinical reliability "luck" this season, I would tend to say:

"Schumi pushes the magic destroy second ferrari button"

[Valve Bounce]

Or maybe Ron Dennis has the plans for the Destroy Ferrari Button

[555-04Q2]

Or maybe Ron Dennis has the plans for the Destroy Ferrari Button

:laugh: Brilliant Valve :up: :laugh:

[Ian McC]

This is how to spend evening in privacy with some friends in public poker tournament in Kimi -style. :D

http://www.iltalehti.fi/viihde/200707296407828_vi.shtml

Something about it in English

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/61280

Who says he doesn't have a sense of humour :D

At the moment he's doing a damn fine impersonation of somebody who shouldn't get a dime, let alone $20million more dollars than his team-mate.

So when is he going to start acting the way the driver Ferrari pay the biggest wage in Formula One should, because for me he is a joke today.

Seems all Kimi needed was my mid-season pep-talk.

A little "thank you to Tamburello" in the post-race press conference wouldn't have gone amiss though!

[Ranger]

Seems all Kimi needed was my mid-season pep-talk.

A little "thank you to Tamburello" in the post-race press conference wouldn't have gone amiss though!

I owe you a beer for that one! :D

[wedge]

Seems all Kimi needed was my mid-season pep-talk.

A little "thank you to Tamburello" in the post-race press conference wouldn't have gone amiss though!

It takes time to adjust to a new car and get what you want. Usually half a season, I thought Alonso was just about the better McLaren driver in the second half of the season - remember when nearly everyone on the forum thought adjusting to the tyres was a poor excuse from Alonso and Kimi ;)

Personally, I was disappointed with Kimi up to Monaco, though I had no doubts that he would come good in the end as the better Ferrari driver but thought it would be too little too late for the WDC. But hey, credit to Kimi for driving 101% and not giving up as anything can happen.

[Storm]

Whatever the weird circumstances, Kimi deserved his slice of luck y'day.
Congrats Kimi on finally getting the title that you should have got in 2003.